Carbine Recommendations?


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CooterShooter
January 29, 2012, 11:04 PM
I've fallen in love with pistol calibre carbines, mostly for their practicality, economy, and ease of maintenance. My next PD/HD firearms purchase will definitely be some kind of pistol-carbine conversion. I was wondering who among you had gotten the chance to play around with something like this (http://adf.ly/58v5g)? And I mean the conversion, not the girl ;).

On the other hand, ever since I got my hands on a Norinco (eww) UZI 9mm I've wanted to try out a .45, which IMHO is the perfect pistol calibre/carbine round. I've seen a few places where I could scoop one up at a decent price.

But I was wondering what you guys might have to say about it? If you've got no advice in general though, heck, I'd love to just see some carbine/conversion/mod pics, so if you use anything with a stock that fires pistol calibre rounds, post away!

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hogshead
January 29, 2012, 11:13 PM
If I got caught playing around with something like that my wife would skin me.lol As bad as I hate to say it have you seen the High Point carbine they have a 9 and a 40. I have traded around on a few and they all shot good.[I hid in the woods to shoot them.] A surprising amount of recoil though. There is also the Marlin Camp Carbine in 9 and 45, though I think they stopped making them.

Bullz
January 29, 2012, 11:18 PM
I had my eye on the SUB 2K a while back as well. There is also the Beretta CX4 Storm. http://www.berettausa.com/products/cx4-storm/ and various AR conversions. I haven't found anything that I'm overly impressed with just yet. I'll keep up with this post to see what you find.

CooterShooter
January 30, 2012, 12:56 AM
If I got caught playing around with something like that my wife would skin me.lol As bad as I hate to say it have you seen the High Point carbine they have a 9 and a 40. I have traded around on a few and they all shot good.[I hid in the woods to shoot them.] A surprising amount of recoil though. There is also the Marlin Camp Carbine in 9 and 45, though I think they stopped making them.
As a matter of fact, I have had the chance to shoot one that belonged to a buddy of mine. I can't remember if it was 9mm or 40 but it's strange that you should mention the recoil, because I remember thinking the same thing...that it had more recoil than a handgun. Anyone know why that might be?

Justin
January 30, 2012, 01:15 AM
To CooterShooter:

Is there any particular reason why clicking on the links in your posts forces me to look at an ad before allowing me to proceed to view content that is already freely and easily available ad-free?

Thanks.

CooterShooter
January 30, 2012, 01:22 AM
5 seconds of ad time vs. however long you think you could find the info yourself with google has never seemed like an issue before. My own "google fu" is good, but I probably couldn't find that same info in less than 5 seconds.

Having said that, do you have any info about carbines I could check out? Or since we've established that you checked the second link, would you recommend handing my money to atlanticfirearms.com? Any experience with them?

rjrivero
January 30, 2012, 01:33 AM
If I was to go with a .45 PCC, then I would go with a KRISS Super-V. And look, no external links to click for a silly picture. ;)

http://images.wikia.com/armyoftwo/images/3/32/Krisssuperv.jpg

jmstevens2
January 30, 2012, 01:38 AM
I have all 3 HiPoint carbines, yes there is a .45 ACP too, a Camp 45, and a Sub2000 in .40 S&W.
All would do just fine, the Camp 45 is longer and therefore more difficult to swing about in close quarters. The sub 2K comes in several common magazine options, you can have a Glock 22 and use the same mag in the carbine for example. The Marlins are also in S&W Mod 59 series mags and 1911 mags for the .45.
Other than the "it is a pistol caliber not a rifle caliber" issues that people argue about all three options would be good choices.

And, an Eotech, fixed sight, AND a laser? Overkill you think? Really cute girl though.

CooterShooter
January 30, 2012, 01:50 AM
If I was to go with a .45 PCC, then I would go with a KRISS Super-V. And look, no external links to click for a silly picture. ;)

http://images.wikia.com/armyoftwo/images/3/32/Krisssuperv.jpg
That's sweet. Took me a minute looking at it before I realised how it fit together, lol. Someone had mentioned KRISS to me but I never followed up on checking it out.

It looks cool, but lemmee tell you why I don't like it. Primarily it looks like it would have a few more extra moving parts than necessary, compared to a carbine conversioin upper that would just slide onto a handgun lower. I might be wrong there? Secondly though, aside from the stock to manage recoil, this system isn't going to improve accuracy in general an awful lot, since the barrel is essentially the same length. My attraction to carbines has to do with two main factors: a) the magazine is in the handle - IMO this is the best compromise between "bullpup" and more traditional configurations on most assault rifles. You get the added six or seven inches of barrel length without having to fiddle around with a magazine in your armpit to reload, lol. b) is the fact that carbines offer the features of rifles with the familiarity/ease of maintenance of a handgun, as well as the economy of cheaper ammo.
But thanks for the pic, that is one sweet carbine, lol. As for the issue with external links I understood forum rules precluded the posting of material I didn't own, and I took the KT pic from the gallery of an artist who targets RKBA material. Thanks!

JRH6856
January 30, 2012, 02:11 AM
5 seconds of ad time vs. however long you think you could find the info yourself with google has never seemed like an issue before.

But we don't need to google for anything, especially ad SPAM. You don't need a tinyurl if you aren't open posting the link. You are the one asking for help. You might get a bit more if you made it easier and had less attitude about it.

CooterShooter
January 30, 2012, 02:15 AM
Sorry for any percieved attitude, none intended. I just like to get to the point. Appreciate the help, though.

CooterShooter
January 30, 2012, 02:16 AM
lol, yeah. I think it's the "tacticool" factor that attracts a certain audience. For myself, cool is fine, but I prefer "practicool", if you will.

As far as the complaints you may have heard about pistol calibre vs. rifle calibre, yeah, that's to be expected, isn't it? Personally I prefer pistol calibre for one main reason, and that's economy/availability. It fits it's niche well. Also, I have to confess, and I hope I don't get too many eyerolls, lol, that my reasoning falls squarely in the field of preparedness. I've got my AK, sure I want to be able to say I've got a truckload of multipurpose handgun ammo for backup. Since it's so much easier to find ammunition for a handgun than it is for an AK, it seems hands down the way to go. But if that weren't enough, you have to consider that in any scenario, if I really have to pit myself against someone who has an assault rifle and the ammo to use it, I'm screwed whether I've got a similar assault rifle or not, because I might think I'm in good shape, can shoot streight, but that person is probably better trained than I am with better resources anyway.

JRH6856
January 30, 2012, 02:36 AM
You do know that discussion of SHTF scenarios is a fast way to get a thread closed around here?

CooterShooter
January 30, 2012, 02:46 AM
Din' know that. We'll be sure to keep it practical then. ;)

Kosh75287
January 30, 2012, 02:52 AM
COOTERSHOOTER, do you own a sidearm in .45 A.C.P. or 9x19? Does someone make a carbine that uses the same (or similar) mgazine as your sidearm? If memory serves, Ruger makes the PC-9 (Politically Correct - 9?) so that it uses the same magazines as their D.A. wonder-nines. At one time, I was under the impression that Marlin's Camp(y?) Carbine in .45 ACP used a magazine quite similar to the 1911-class pistols. Buying a carbine in which your pistol's magazines will fit AND FUNCTION(merely being able to "latch-in" is not enough) may save you from going afield with more two pistols and two types of magazine, and spending time you'll never get back, keeping them straight. JMHO.

CooterShooter
January 30, 2012, 02:53 AM
I had my eye on the SUB 2K a while back as well. There is also the Beretta CX4 Storm. http://www.berettausa.com/products/cx4-storm/ and various AR conversions. I haven't found anything that I'm overly impressed with just yet. I'll keep up with this post to see what you find.
Personally, the CX4 is a little too "spaceage" for my tastes. Maybe I'm old fashioned? It just feels a bit odd for me to shove a sleek, pretty handgun into something that looks like it belongs on Batman's utility belt, lol. It probably functions great, and Berretta has the kind of rep you can appreciate, but I'd almost rather put my money behind something like Mechtech (http://www.mechtechsys.com/)? Hard to say since I've never had the opportunity to try either.

CooterShooter
January 30, 2012, 05:42 AM
Yeah, I have a 1911, I didn't know that was possible! Awesome, thanks for the info, that's another thing I'll be checking out.

Brian Williams
January 30, 2012, 08:35 AM
CooterShooter, you said I just like to get to the point
so do we, with out having you "make money" for our 5 seconds of time.

jmstevens2
January 30, 2012, 08:41 AM
COOTERSHOOTER, do you own a sidearm in .45 A.C.P. or 9x19? Does someone make a carbine that uses the same (or similar) mgazine as your sidearm?
At one time, I was under the impression that Marlin's Camp(y?) Carbine in .45 ACP used a magazine quite similar to the 1911-class pistols.

No, It uses 1911 mags, not similar, exactly 1911.

Ghost Tracker
January 30, 2012, 09:24 AM
The more I think about a pistol-caliber carbine (budget, available models, features, reliability, my anticipated use, etc.) the more likely I am to spend $200 on a NFA tax stamp and SBR a GLOCK. That seems the easiest solution to most of my caliber, mag capacity, part availability, durability & reliability concerns. Yeah, I know, there are cheaper ways to do it (there always is). Yes, I'm aware the ~$700-800 (including SBR stamp) would buy me (another) AR, 1.5 Beretta Storms, or TWO Kel-Tec Sub2000s. But IMHO it would be VERY light, quick & handy to have a shoulder-stocked G20. The 10mm would hit like an autoloading .41 magnum. I could also buy an extra frame (GLOCK or Lonewolf?) and move the slide back over to a handgun in 45 seconds if/when it suited me. Or maybe a .357 sig converted G35 carbine? Or a (suppressed) G17L carbine? I'm LIKING this idea. :cool:

GrandmasterB
January 30, 2012, 12:55 PM
I have a 9mm Sub 2000 and it is totally fun. I like the compact folding style too. I sure wish they made one in .45acp.

I had a 9mm AR for a while, but I never got it to run consistently enough and finally got tired of fiddling with it. Based on my experiences, I don't plan on going back to the AR platform for pistol chamberings.

For the .45 route, I really wanted something that had decent capacity mags, as many of the .45 carbines are 10rds or less. So I went with the H&K USC with a Grease Gun magazine conversion:

http://webpages.charter.net/deut30and11/Guns/USC45_5a.jpg

It is so awesome to shoot, accurate and reliable as all get out! Totally loving this setup. If there is a downside, it's that fully loaded Grease Gun mags are heavy as crap! :) But they make a great blunt force trauma weapon if things go totally wrong... ;)

rjrivero
January 30, 2012, 01:38 PM
Kriss Super V's can be had with longer barrels. However, with .45 ACP since the powder burn is pretty fast and complete, the longer barrels aren't going to help a whole lot with increasing velocities nor with increasing accuracy.

You don't have to pay the $200 Transfer tax for the longer barrel, though.

http://www.gunpundit.com/2008/kriss_crb_so.jpg

JustinJ
January 30, 2012, 01:49 PM
I like my HK USC to UMP conversion but they ain't cheap nor are the mags. They are incredibly quiet though even before a can.

Dr.Rob
January 30, 2012, 02:27 PM
If I ever get another pistol caliber carbine I might take a look at a Vector Uzi that can be had for about the price of a 9mm AR Upper.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct517.aspx

scbison
January 30, 2012, 02:30 PM
Marlin 1894 chambered in .38 special. Perfect Pistol caliber carbine. ;)

Captains1911
January 30, 2012, 02:42 PM
I wonder why the BUIS are mounted backwards on that rifle posted above.

Sheepdog1968
January 30, 2012, 09:32 PM
Winchester and Marlin make some dandy lever actions in pistol rounds.

bluetopper
January 30, 2012, 09:39 PM
Do any of them carry the fun factor and pride of ownership of a lever action 44 Magnum?

MrDig
January 31, 2012, 09:55 AM
+1 on the Marlins, I have the 1894C in 357/38 and the 1894 in 44m and revolvers to match them.

Ghost Tracker
January 31, 2012, 10:00 AM
...fun factor and pride of ownership...I'm guessing most pistol-caliber carbines carry that. After all, we're continually reminded that there's no OTHER reason...to have one! ;)

Girodin
January 31, 2012, 12:54 PM
I have a SUb 2K and like it. It is economical, accurate enough for its purposes (I've never benched it to see just how accurate), mine has been 100% reliable and it takes glock mags which is nice. The folding feature is unique and nice.

The down sides are: the front sight is flimsy (but can be replaced with a sturdier unit), the trigger pull is pretty bad, fit and finish is what you'd expect for a sub $300 kel tec. Mounting optics is a challenge and it is a weapon that cries for a RDS. The quad rail in the picture looks nice but I have read many many reviews that talk about how it comes loose. I cannot easily add a suppressor.

For the price the kel tec is pretty hard to beat. I had a hi point carbine and sold it. It was reliable and accurate for my purposes but it was unsightly and limited to 10 round magazines.

I wouldn't mind getting an Uzi SBR just for the coolness factor. I feel like an psitol caliber AR would be a better weapon than the kel tec, hi point, storm, etc but if I need a serious weapon then I would want a rifle round anyways. In sum, the kel tec serves my PCC purposes and does it with the advantage of folding away for storage and transport.


One I have wanted for a while but have held off on is a TMP with a folding stock. I'd probably have one but they are pretty spendy for a gun that wont do anything its much cheaper competition can.

http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k172930_TP9folder.jpg

303tom
January 31, 2012, 01:30 PM
M1 Carbine...............

Panzercat
January 31, 2012, 01:56 PM
I have a 9mm Sub 2000 and it is totally fun. I like the compact folding style too. I sure wish they made one in .45acp.
That's probably the only reason I haven't bought one yet.

savage1r
January 31, 2012, 02:26 PM
Can't beat all the features of the Sub2000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMNZsbHRfkg) for the price.

Saakee
January 31, 2012, 02:30 PM
A 1911 with a mechtech CCU adapter or a glock with one: http://www.mechtechsys.com/ the pistol for CCW then switch off slide and mate up for HD/pistol caliber hunting/plinking/whatever

dprice3844444
January 31, 2012, 02:31 PM
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/211581774/Perlite_fireproof_material.html

http://bazookabrothers.com/

JustinJ
January 31, 2012, 05:04 PM
I'm guessing most pistol-caliber carbines carry that. After all, we're continually reminded that there's no OTHER reason...to have one!

For home defense or any situation in which one will be firing indoors pistol caliber carbines have a distinct advantage over an unupressed rifle caliber. Shoot a 5.56 or 7.62 indoors and it will probably set off your smoke detector which really won't matter as you will be too deaf to hear it.

Ghost Tracker
February 2, 2012, 05:51 PM
pistol caliber carbines have a distinct advantage over an unupressed rifle caliber. You apparently didn't see my post #20 where I talked about building (another) pistol-caliber carbine or the wink in my post #30 to hint at the tongue-in-cheek nature of my comment. You don't have to convince me of their usefulness. I LIKE 'em!

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