Michael Bellesiles - zionist occupied government


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Stand_Watie
February 8, 2004, 10:23 PM
I'd like to poll the forum to satisfy my own curiosity. Bellesiles made a comment in his latest defense of his work that he is not a member of the 'zionist occupied government' and it occurs to me that he is trying to paint his detractors as being of the anti-zionist bent (z.o.g. is a term used by several anti-zionist organizations that believe the American government is wrongly and disproportionately controlled by pro-Israel Jews).

I realize that gun-rights defenders are going to have opinions on international affairs that run the entire gamut, but it has been my observation that gun owners are at least as zionist (and I would define that simply as the belief that the state of Israel has the right to exist) as American society in general, perhaps more so.

No flames please - I'm not interested in a debate about the state of Israel or even if you agree with all the actions of the current government, just whether or not you believe they have the right to exist in the same manner as all other national governments.

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RON in PA
February 8, 2004, 11:05 PM
I believe that "ZOG" was originally used by American NAZIs. Sounds like Bellesiles is acussing those who disagree with him as being NAZIs.

Do you have a source for your Bellesiles quote?

Stand_Watie
February 8, 2004, 11:50 PM
I believe that "ZOG" was originally used by American NAZIs. Sounds like Bellesiles is acussing those who disagree with him as being NAZIs.
Do you have a source for your Bellesiles quote?

The place I had heard "Zog" being used was a neo-nazi outfit out of Idaho, but I was trying to avoid using the reference as I thought it likely to set off flames.

My source is jsalcedo quoting the wall street journal on this thread


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63572&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Chris Rhines
February 9, 2004, 12:00 AM
The state of Israel does not have the moral right to exist. No state, anywhere, has the moral right to exist. States do not have rights; individuals have rights.

I see the present (heh!) conflict between the Israeli government and the rest of the Middle East as being much like a barfight between two drunks - both sides are to some degree at fault, neither side has any claim to the moral high ground, and I don't care who wins as long as they don't spill my drink.

- Chris

Bigjake
February 9, 2004, 12:14 AM
That was pretty funny Chris, lol.


my opinion-

they most certainly have a right to exist, and i love reading about palestinian terorists (redundancy alert) getting whacked for their troubles.

Mordwyn
February 9, 2004, 12:42 AM
Do I support Israel in their fight for existance......yes

Do I think that Mikey Bellesiles is a lying sphincter.... also yes

SMLE
February 9, 2004, 01:48 AM
http://www.protestwarrior.com/images/tshirts/muslim_land.jpg

Protest Warrior (http://www.protestwarrior.com/)

trooper
February 9, 2004, 06:48 PM
Yes, I believe that Israel and the Jewish people have every right to exist as an independent, free nation, and to provide for their own safety. Come to that, I happen to believe that the Palestinian people have the same right.

I'll leave it at that.


Regards,

Trooper

Zonamo
February 9, 2004, 11:56 PM
Michael Bellesiles’ comment about the “Zionist Occupation Government” is a vile piece of demagoguery that attempts to smear all opponents of his views as racist neo-Nazis.

The results of the poll here, roughly 75% to 13%, is consistent with national polls of American opinion, and shows his smear to be the cheap diversionary tactic it is.

Those who support the right to keep and bear arms are not a reactionary gang of rabid neo-Nazis as Bellesiles vainly tries to insinuate. They are from every walk of American life. The thing they share in common is the clear understanding of the importance of the right to self-defense as a fundamental guarantee of true liberty. Bellesile would do well to visit Oleg’s site to better grasp the breadth of support across the entire spectrum in America for this fundamental human right wisely enshrined in our Constitution by the founders of our country.

As for the people of Israel, they are no more obligated to prove their moral right to exist within their own free and independent nation than the people of the United States of America are obligated to prove our moral right to exist.

Stand_Watie
February 10, 2004, 02:20 AM
As for the people of Israel, they are no more obligated to prove their moral right to exist ...

Certainly not, and I had no interest in anyone proving any such thing, or anything to the contrary either, I just wanted to get a feel for the attitudes of forum members.

It appears to me that Bellesiles was as full of baloney in regards to his broad-brush smear against his critics as he was when it came to doing his history homework.

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