Modern equivalent of 357 revolver/carbine combo?


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Seattleimport
February 1, 2012, 02:00 PM
Sharing ammunition between your handgun and your rifle makes a lot of sense to me. It's efficient. I've had my eye on the classic revolver/carbine combo (in 38/357 or 45 long colt), but was wondering if there's an equivalent for modern pistols (semiautomatics). Any ideas?

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tyeo098
February 1, 2012, 02:03 PM
Probably a pistol carbine/SMG with a handgun in the same caliber.

MP5/M9 comes to mind.
AR in 45 and a 1911?

Jason_W
February 1, 2012, 02:08 PM
If someone would release a 10mm carbine, that would fill the bill nicely.

I know Mechtech makes an upper that attaches to a Glock receiver that can accomplish this to a degree.

Cosmoline
February 1, 2012, 02:14 PM
I hate to say this, but the FN 5.7 has both pistol and carbine for it. Great idea to make them together, though the round itself is.. meh.

JFrame
February 1, 2012, 02:15 PM
Another combo would be the Beretta CX4 which, depending on the configuration, can share magazines with either the PX4 or the 92.


.

RX-178
February 1, 2012, 02:18 PM
Glock pistols and one of any number of pistol caliber carbines that take Glock mags (Kel-Tec Sub-2000, JR Carbine, Kriss Super V, etc.)

Teachu2
February 1, 2012, 02:19 PM
I have a 1911 and a Hi Point carbine, both in .45acp. I also have a Ruger pistol and a 10/22, so there's two "sets".

dom1104
February 1, 2012, 02:29 PM
Its only efficient if its the only handgun and rifle you own.

If you have a "pair" and a whole bunch of other guns, the efficiency is lost.

Seattleimport
February 1, 2012, 02:33 PM
Thanks! I didn't know that some carbines actually accepted pistol magazines--now that's real efficiency. I have an XDm9 pistol; I wonder if Springfield makes a carbine that accepts their magazines. I'll hit the Springfield site after this.

What's the performance of the 9mm cartridge through a carbine? Does it really achieve rifle-like range/performance?

dprice3844444
February 1, 2012, 02:36 PM
sig 357 is.

http://www.mechtechsys.com/

TurtlePhish
February 1, 2012, 02:39 PM
9mm at 50yds through a carbine is like a .357 out of a 2.5" barrel point blank, or so I've heard.

GrandmasterB
February 1, 2012, 04:43 PM
H&K USC in 45ACP and the .45 handgun of your choice...

http://webpages.charter.net/deut30and11/Guns/USC45_5a.jpg

Or Kel-Tec Sub2000 in 9mm or .40S&W and the handgun of your choice.

JHenry
February 1, 2012, 04:48 PM
Surprised noone mentioned the Kriss, although it is really expensive.

RX-178
February 1, 2012, 05:09 PM
Hey now, I mentioned it!

BCRider
February 1, 2012, 05:47 PM
What's the performance of the 9mm cartridge through a carbine? Does it really achieve rifle-like range/performance?

Any of the handgun rounds through a longer carbine barrel will be faster by some amount. But rifle like? Not a hope. The extra speed will allow you to reach out farther and keep the trajectory flatter but even the "lowly" .30-30 shooting the same weight of bullet is going faster, farther and flatter than what you'll get from a pistol round out of a carbine.

I used the .30-30 as an example since so many rifle folks seem to consider it as barely adequite these days for a lot of hunting. I don't believe that myself but it's a popular view on the "interwebz".

Compared to other rifle rounds it's considered a little "lazy" and "only" good for hunting out to around 150'ish yards. And we're talking about a 150gn bullet moving along at around 2300 to 2400 fps. Your semi auto cartridge handgun carbines are not going to match that sort of performance by a long shot.

I'm hot and cold about the idea of a matching carbine. First off 9mm from a carbine is not much different than shooting .22. And since I shoot strictly for fun it doesn't create much in the way of giggles. And locally there's just no club or other level matches to use such guns in. So for me that makes it strictly a plinker. And frankly while the ones I've gotten to shoot are OK I'd rather put my ammo through handguns instead.

The Beretta CX4 Storm is particularly smooth and boring to shoot thanks to a smooth and low level recoil even when spitting out .40S&W. Nice firearm and nastily accurate but for plinking it really doesn't stir the juices. But if I were using it for home defense I'd be all over it.

The Keltec and JR carbines are more fun due to the big heavy bolt slamming back and forth creating an artificial sense of recoil. But the way they puke the blowback gases out the sides and in the case of the Keltec the massive use of plastics doesn't make me feel like I'd want to use them for anything other than casual plinking or casual competitions. I may easily be totally wrong about the Keltec. But it's just how I feel. Later on if the history of these guns as the round counts mount proves me wrong I'll happily eat crow.

One other carbine I've shot was the HK 94. Nice gun but it doesn't share magazine compatibility with handguns like the others. But it would be superb for HD use.

Of course there's the High Point carbine as well. But I've never seen one, let alone got to shoot one.

MCgunner
February 1, 2012, 05:48 PM
I'm thinkin', without reading this whole thread (sorry, lazy) that one could probably not equal .357 magnum carbine performance with a 10mm's small case. All that slow powder in the .357 really shines out of a 20" barrel, like 2100 fps with a 158 grain JHP or 1900 fps with a gas checked 165 grain SWC. THAT treads on low end .30-30 territory from the rifle. Same gun fires a 105 grain SWC to 900 fps from .38 special brass, 1.5" at 50 yards accurate (minute of squirrel). This makes for a very versatile hunting rifle, what I really like about it. I own 3 revolvers in the caliber and one's a Blackhawk (matches the western look:D ), but really like the little Rossi 92 on it's own merits regardless of having a handgun in matching caliber. Both the 92 and the Blackhawk have taken deer. No hog or deer is safe from 100 yards and in from the rifle.

MCgunner
February 1, 2012, 05:52 PM
Before the argument starts....:D

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=102

Make special note of the Marlin 1894, 18.5 inch barrel velocities. Item 19C/20, supercedes 30-30 energies!!!

1. 3 inch S&W J frame

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1302 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC (jacketed hollow cavity) = 1299 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1398 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1476 fps

2. 4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr JHC = 1411 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1485 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1603 fps

3. 5 inch S&W model 27

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast =1398 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1380 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1457 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1543 fps

4. 6 inch Ruger GP 100

a. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1707 fps

5. 18.5 inch Marlin 1894

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast = 1851 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1860 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2153 fps---- Can you believe this?!!!
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2298 fps---- Or this?!!!

JHenry
February 1, 2012, 05:56 PM
"Hey now, I mentioned it"

youve been skimmed lol

Jason_W
February 1, 2012, 06:58 PM
I'm thinkin', without reading this whole thread (sorry, lazy) that one could probably not equal .357 magnum carbine performance with a 10mm's small case.

Not in terms of numbers, but it would come the closest of all the other common (or somewhat common) auto pistol rounds.

Inside 50 yards, I'm guessing nothing hit with either would know the difference. Pst that, the .357 would have the edge.

jmstevens2
February 1, 2012, 07:05 PM
I would do my 1911 and Marlin Camp 45. They use the same mags unlike the HiPoint that interchanges with nothing but a HiPoint.
Or a Camp 9 and a S&W Mod 59, again same mags, or Glock 22 and KelTec Sub 2000, same mags etc etc.

adam69b
February 1, 2012, 07:09 PM
check out rossi usa they have some great options
http://www.rossiusa.com/

spence
February 1, 2012, 09:21 PM
I matched up a sig 226 in .40s&w with a ruger pc4 ( .40s&w) . ruger doesant make it any more but you can still find them.

CaliCoastie
February 2, 2012, 06:03 AM
Why not the cartridge combo you started with? With a desert eagle in 357, and a Marlin 1894 in 357. Or if you want both in semi auto the desert eagle 44 mag, and the ruger semi auto carbine in 44mag.

A Pause for the Coz
February 2, 2012, 06:35 AM
I'm thinkin', without reading this whole thread (sorry, lazy) that one could probably not equal .357 magnum carbine performance with a 10mm's small case. All that slow powder in the .357 really shines out of a 20" barrel, like 2100 fps with a 158 grain JHP or 1900 fps with a gas checked 165 grain SWC. THAT treads on low end .30-30 territory from the rifle. Same gun fires a 105 grain SWC to 900 fps from .38 special brass, 1.5" at 50 yards accurate (minute of squirrel). This makes for a very versatile hunting rifle, what I really like about it. I own 3 revolvers in the caliber and one's a Blackhawk (matches the western look:D ), but really like the little Rossi 92 on it's own merits regardless of having a handgun in matching caliber. Both the 92 and the Blackhawk have taken deer. No hog or deer is safe from 100 yards and in from the rifle.
Thats my preferred combo too. You can build up some pretty stout 357 rifle loads M92 on the shoulder with the Black hawk on the hip. Thats my white tail combo. Woods I hunt 100 yards is a long shot. Although I can hit hard any thing out to 200 no problem.
After that you dropping velocity pretty fast. Not worth the risk of wounding.

.45 long colt or 44 mag probably a better choice. But I have no guns in that cal and only 6 pieces of brass. I have 10,000 357 cases :-)

InkEd
February 4, 2012, 01:35 AM
A Thompson and a 1911 would be the most patriotic and cool.

Voltia
February 4, 2012, 02:07 AM
I invite anyone who thinks the 5.7x28 in the Five-Seven is meh to stand in front of one....

helotaxi
February 4, 2012, 02:28 AM
I invite anyone who thinks the 5.7x28 in the Five-Seven is meh to stand in front of one....
The .22CB is "meh" as well, but I'm still not standing in front of one.

303tom
February 4, 2012, 08:32 AM
My Auto-Mag III & my M1 Carbine...........

C-grunt
February 4, 2012, 09:48 AM
9mm out of a carbine can get up around 1700 FPS. I think a 40 carbine adds a bit of velocity as well. From what I have read though the standard 45s don't see a big velocity increase out of a carbine.

Carl N. Brown
February 4, 2012, 10:20 AM
.45 Semi-auto Thompson and 1911 by AutoOrdnance (Numrich, West Hurley).

.357 Rossi Puma and Ruger Secirity Six.

The gain in .45 velocity in the carbine over the pistol is piddling, probably less than 100fps.

The gain in some .357 loads in the carbine over the pistol can be 500 fps, doubling the energy.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=152087&d=1320528068

Don357
February 4, 2012, 11:06 AM
The Highpoint carbines and pistols in 9mm, .40S&W, and .45acp all accept the same mags.(caliber specific, of course) But my choice would be an AR and a Desert Eagle both in .50AE, or a less expensive combination of a Ruger P90 and a Marlin Camp Rifle in .45acp.

RECIT
February 4, 2012, 02:00 PM
The Beretta CX4 taking 92fs mags and a Beretta 92 would be the most economical solution retaining great reliability other than a pair of Rossi .357 revolver and lever gun. I think the Rossi options leave a lot to be desired fit and finish wise though. The Beretta options are top notch.

jmstevens2
February 5, 2012, 09:34 AM
I invite anyone who thinks the 5.7x28 in the Five-Seven is meh to stand in front of one....
Surely you are more intelligent than to stoop to such hyperbole. Effective and able to cause harm are not the same thing.
I'm not going to stand in front of a paintball gun, that does not make it "effective"

Andrewsky
February 5, 2012, 10:52 AM
Actually, ammunition standardization doesn't really make sense for a civilian.

You are not a trapped German in Stalingrad with a P-38 and MP-40 waiting for the Luftwaffe to fly ammunition to you. You are a civilian in one of the most prosperous countries on earth. You can buy any ammunition online for a reasonable price and have it shipped to your house.

If you are standardizing you are probably compromising to your own detriment.

Dirty Bob
February 29, 2012, 10:29 PM
Another option is mine: a Ruger SP101 and an H&R single shot in .357, cut down to "youth rifle" size. I'm still playing with handloads to see what the H&R will do. I've been experimenting with heavy bullet, subsonic loads. Low recoil and noise, and very cheap to shoot.

Standardizing could be a good way to save money for someone who wants to keep things simple. The .357 or .44 Magnum could both work for this. If you handload, costs could be kept fairly low, and both cartridges gain a lot in a rifle barrel.

All my best,
Dirty Bob

precisionrifle14
February 29, 2012, 10:49 PM
You could always just get a Spike's Tactical ar-15 pistol and a BCM EAG Tactical Carbine:D

Acera
February 29, 2012, 11:10 PM
Jason W asked: If someone would release a 10mm carbine, that would fill the bill nicely.

I know Mechtech makes an upper that attaches to a Glock receiver that can accomplish this to a degree.

Olympic Arms has had a 10mm AR carbine out for years.

http://olyarms.net/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.pbv.v8.tpl&product_id=54&category_id=29&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=5

fatcat4620
March 1, 2012, 07:24 AM
10mm AR and glock 20.

Dr.Rob
March 1, 2012, 04:18 PM
Standardizing means using the same ammo. Same load, same powder, same bullet or else why bother?

9mm carbines are out there and available, some even use the same magazines as current popular handguns.

Marlin and Ruger both tried unsuccessfully to market these to sportsmen and police alike. I suspect they failed due to the low power of auto pistol cartridges (compared to an AR/Mini 14 or shotgun) and the lack of accessories avalable at the time for the carbines in Ruger's case.

.357mag and .44mag out of a rifle are big medicine out past ranges I'd shoot a hand gun accurately. I'm not sure there is an autoloading cartridge that I could compare to those rounds.

Positivity
March 1, 2012, 04:38 PM
Though it has already been mentioned, I think that the most modern equivalent would have to be the Glock 21 and the Kriss Super V. Both use the same caliber, same mag, even the extended mag from the Super V.

surfinUSA
March 1, 2012, 07:11 PM
A kel tec and a Glock makes the most sense to me as they use the same mags. But I don't see either the 9mm or the 40S&W version beingany where near as useful as a lever action/revolver combo ineither 357 magnum or especially 44 magnum.


There is very little I would worry about out in the woods with a 44 magnum combo, other than the weight of the ammo. If you are careful that combo will do most anything you need doing.

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