Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 for HD?


February 3, 2012, 01:27 AM
I'm currently planning to buy a new HD shotgun but I'm a little new to Shotguns and am unsure which is the best of the two mentioned. I would like to deck out whichever shotty I choose so my other question is which has the best accessories and is the cheapest to customize?

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February 3, 2012, 01:40 AM
Just search around... there are tons of threads, articles, and videos on these two and their differences.

The 870 is steel, has a trigger guard-mounted safety, and is easy to put anything with a pistol grip on (due to safety placement). I find that they feel more sturdy than Mossbergs.

The 500 is an alloy receiver, has a tang-mounted safety, and tend to be slightly more rough (in my experience). They also tend to be a tad lighter, due to the receiver, and are easier to load.

That's about it. Both are reliable and both will hold up longer than you, so pick what fits you best. If you plan on a pistol grip stock such as the Mesa Urbino or Speedfeed IV/III, then consider the safety placement on the shotguns.

As for upgrades, a side saddle, magazine extension, and maybe a light are really all you would want. Rails everywhere and all that tacticool stuff will only add weight, bulk, and complexity. Unless you genuinely like the look, I'd shy away from it. And unless breaching doors is your main job, a PGO (pistol grip only) stock is probably going to do more harm than good. And as for ammo... just get some good quality buckshot, test it's patterns so you know where it hits at your max distance in your house, and have at it. Stocks, optics, etc... that's all user preference.

February 3, 2012, 01:48 AM
The ease of loading the Mossberg puts it ahead of the 870 to me

Boom Boom Tactical
February 3, 2012, 02:17 AM
Mossbergs are great shotguns but I really like the Remingtons

February 3, 2012, 02:33 AM
I would pick based on your safety location preference. I have one of each.

February 3, 2012, 03:40 AM
This is like the classic Ford vs Chevy question, when it comes to customizing I suspect there are more options available for the 870, but that does not mean there is any shortage of options on the Mossberg's. I like the 870 myself, I have one 2 feet away from me right now mounted to my bed frame (a nice 40+ year old 20 GA 870 Wingmaster full size frame gun with a +2 extension and 20 inch barrel loaded with #3 buck)

February 3, 2012, 07:04 AM
The Remington is much better than the Mossberg 500. If comparing the 870 to the Mossberg 590 the 2 are much closer. I'd still buy the 870, but would take the 590 over the 500 anyday.

Fred Fuller
February 3, 2012, 09:34 AM
Handle both of them at the fun store.

Shoot both of them, if you have the opportunity. Ask family and friends to take you shooting if they own one or the other. Or look for a range or gun club with rentals.

DECIDE FOR YOURSELF which one feels best to you - don't depend in Internet strangers for a personal decision. Do you like strawberry, or grape? Shaken or stirred? Etc.

Once you pick out one or the other, get it home, unbox it, Read The Fine Manual, field strip it and clean it first thing. That means buy a cleaning kit and supplies when you buy the gun, if you don't have one. Buy some light birdshot loads to get started with on the range later. Get good name brand ammo, not the cheapest loss leader stuff available. Cheapo ammo can cause sticking problems sometimes.

FORGET about adding anything to the gun until the pile of hulls you yourself have fired through the gun is at least ankle deep. Learn to run the gun safely, how to load, unload (without pumping rounds through the chamber), shoot, hit what you shoot at, reload on the fly, clear malfunctions etc. Make good safety habits reflexive. If you AD a shotgun, something is going to have a BIG hole in it. Don't mess up. Ever.

Once you know the gun well, THEN consider adding those accessories that actually help YOU run YOUR GUN better. If you haven't shot at least a flat of shells (250 rounds) before you post the first picture of your shotgun, you ain't doin' it right. This isn't about kewl shotgun pics on the net. It's about skills - your skills. You cannot buy skill in a box and bolt it onto your shotgun.

Take a class that teaches you how to fight with a shotgun. Sumlocaldude or a nationally ranked instructor like Louis Awerbuck, Randy Cain, John Farnam, Clint Smith, Tom Givens, etc, however you want to go, but get some training from someone who knows their way around fighting with a shotgun.

This will take a few months to get done if you push, or longer if you don't push it. It took me about ten years to finally get a class with a nationally ranked instructor, mainly because work kept getting in the way. I sure wish I had been able to get it done a lot earlier.

OK, get to work! :D

February 3, 2012, 10:16 AM
I went with the 500 for the location of the safety and the slide release. For me, the locations of the controls on the 500 are WAY more intuitive and would be easier to use in a high stress situation, but I guess with training you can handle the 870's controls just fine. Also I like that the elevator stays up on the 500 for easier loading, and the dual action bars. I have heard complaints about more recent 870 expresses....allegedly Remington's quality has gone downhill, but my friend just bought one and it seems alright.

I wouldn't say the 500 is less "smooth" than the 870, but it definitely has bigger clearances that make it feel noticeably "looser." A bit more rattle. Note the difference between clearance and tolerance. Loose is not necessarily bad. It allows for more crud to get in there before things start to bind and lock up. Of course if you keep it under your bed, that won't matter anyway.

I think anyone who says one is clearly superior to the other, for everyone, is probably biased. It is very subjective.

February 3, 2012, 10:24 AM
either one will work fine for hd.if buying new,ok.if buying used check them carefully.good load #4 buck will work well.

February 3, 2012, 01:29 PM
Both are good.

I prefer the safety and slide release location on the 500 over the 870.
Plus, a shotgun with a 18.5" and 28" barrel for $316 OTD, no brainer :)

February 3, 2012, 05:55 PM
Thanks for the great input guys! I'll be going to my local gun store soon and trying both out.

February 3, 2012, 07:33 PM
Both are great. For me, the key question is where do you want the safety to be located (tang vs near rear of trigger)?

February 3, 2012, 08:08 PM
I'd say, in order of my preference, it would be:

870 Wingmaster/Police, Mossberg 590, Mossberg 500, 870 Express.

There's more factors than just general quality though, since it's about the same between these two products.

For example, on the 870 you can much more easily do a slug changeover without surfing a round off of the carrier, compared to a Mossberg 500 where it's almost required. I personally didn't find this an issue because my idea of a slug changeover is putting a slug in the magazine tube and working the action.

I personally use a Mossberg 500 'breacher' (that I did install a stock on!) since it's what the LGS had at the time. I kinda regret that, because resting it up against the wall by the bed like I do, the teeth on the breacher muzzle carves the hell out of the wallpaper!

I'd also personally avoid any Mossberg 500 where the action bars were molded into the plastic forend, it's just a sign of lower quality IMO.

bubba in ca
February 3, 2012, 08:49 PM
Fondle both--if you shoot left handed the mossberg will be better. Also, 870s are a little harder to load, but that can be a non-issue for HD if you have a dedicated gun that is always kept loaded.

Both have long histories and go bang when trigger is pulled. It's a matter of choosing between 2 good choices. You can ignore comments about Mossberg rattles and uglyness--99 out of 100 burglars surveyed rated this as unimportant.

February 3, 2012, 11:46 PM
Why is the 870 harder to load?

February 3, 2012, 11:54 PM
Lee Lapin. Great post. I would be interested in hearing thoughts about barrel length.

February 4, 2012, 01:06 AM
The 870 is harder to load because the lifter is spring loaded in the down position, I personally don't see it as a big deal under normal conditions, but it may be an issue in high stress moments.

February 4, 2012, 02:35 AM
I already have a tacti'cooled Saiga 12, a Remington 870P and a few others.

This time I chose the M500 to do as a 'Jack of All Trades', including a HD role.
For HD, I added a 18.5" cylinder bore barrel, swapped the brass bead for a Meprolight Tru-Dot night sight, Vang Comp oversized safety , extra power mag spring and a high-vis mag follower.
Now trying to decide which sling to put on it, as a fighting shotgun should have sling.

See this thread,

February 4, 2012, 10:31 AM
Like others have said

Tang Saftey

Bolt Release

Easy Loading

Easy Barrel Changes

Mossberg 500

PS I sold my 870 to get my 500 Combo and am much happier with where things are. Should the 870 have had the same placement of said items 870 all the way.

February 4, 2012, 10:46 AM
Remington 870 Express Magnum (Wilson Combat)
That's my choice but there is nothing wrong with the Mossy 500.

Fred Fuller
February 4, 2012, 11:28 AM
Thanks, whalerman. I try :D. So, OP, please excuse the thread diversion here...

Most any barrel length can work for HD from a barricaded position, which is in most cases the best way to deploy a shotgun for home defense (see the NRA's Personal Protection In The Home class, described at - it's focused on handguns, but the same tactics work with shotguns).

I do like shorter barrels better for a dedicated HD shotgun though, simply because they are handier in storage and retrieval. It's good IMHO to be able to swap barrels on the same gun and have a shorter smoothbore barrel for HD, and a longer smoothbore barrel for field/sporting use. With most modern makes/models, this arrangement is neither difficult nor overly expensive to set up.

Barrels shorter than 18" require more expense, paperwork and hassle than I'm willing to deal with. We use 870s as a rule here, the old so-called 18" factory barrel from Remington is actually 18 1/8" and that works fine. The newer barrels from Remington are 18 1/2", I see nothing to complain about there either. Remington's Riot Gun bead-sight barrels and many rifle sight-equipped smoothbore slug barrels have always been offered at 20", those work fine too. And Remington and other manufacturers offer Turkey barrels and rifle sight smoothbore slug barrels from 21" to 24" or so, and there's nothing at all to complain about with those either.

After an unexpected move a few years ago, I found myself with no shotgun handy. A trip through local pawn shops turned up a used 870 Express Turkey gun with a 21" vent rib barrel, dual bead sights and an Extra Full turkey choke tube. It was a wreck on the outside, which was responsible for the attractively low price tag, but it was mechanically sound and the bore was bright and shiny. A twist using a quarter for a choke tube wrench broke the extended tube loose in its threads. So I bought the gun.

A standard ImpCyl choke tube out of the used choke tube box was willingly swapped even up for the Turkey tube by the counterman, who knew he could charge more for the Turkey tube than for the ImpCyl tube I wanted. I took the mess home, field stripped it and gave it a good cleaning inside and out, got all the old camo tape off the wooden furniture and got all the gummy glue it left behind off everything. Apparently the former owner was a heavy user of DEET based insect repellent, the areas on the stock and forearm where hands naturally go were so sticky it was hard to let go of the gun once it was picked up.

The gun cleaned up nicely, and is still one of my favorites. It will serve reasonably well in multiple roles as it is, with no barrel changes, even though 870 barrels are widely available, not expensive and interchange easily. The two beads work well as substitute iron sights if needed. It still has the ImpCyl RemChoke tube in it, but a 4-round Sidesaddle has been added, along with a simple rail for a weaponlight.

For versatility's sake I like smoothbore slug barrels with factory rifle sights. That way when the short barrel is removed the sights go too. On a dedicated HD/large game hunting shotgun I like ghost ring sights, but for a multipurpose shotgun I prefer rifle sights on the short smoothbore barrel. Bead sights are great for purely 'inside' guns and work well for lots of shooters outside as well, though I prefer sights on a defensive shotgun, as it's easier for me to get hits with slugs at longer ranges if the gun has sights. My old eyes aren't what they used to be.

Choke tubes and other internal barrel changes aren't as useful as they were a few years ago IMHO, as long as a full range of ammunition choices is available. I never bought a Vang barrel, though I was tempted, but I did have choke tubes installed and forcing cones lengthened in several 18 1/8" barrels. At the time a MOD choke helped a lot to get the kind of sheet-of-paper size patterns I wanted out at 25 yards. Now all I have to do is shoot a load with the FliteControl wad, out of a CYL bore, to get the same result. And it's 100% worry free shooting slugs or anything else out of the same barrel and choke, too.

Makes life easier... :D



Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread...

February 4, 2012, 05:28 PM
^ With all that being said Lee what's your opinion on a Stoeger Double Defense for HD, just discovered this weapon, I gotta say it appears like it'd get the job done, the barrels short, it comes equipped with a two rails for mounting a scope or light, and you can choose between over and under or side by side barrel placement, but the fact that it's only 2 shots is what's throwing me. I guess I'm getting a little off my own topic here..

February 4, 2012, 07:22 PM
I saw your other thread on the Stoeger, and I normally would say "Yeah, if it's all you have." But, seeing as you're talking about the 870 and 500 to fill the same role, I couldn't comfortably suggest the double barrel over one of the pumps. 7 shots vs. 2, and you have the same light and optic mounting options on the pumps.

If you really like the Stoeger, then by all means go for it. But objectively, the 870 or 500 are the better option, simply due to round count.

February 4, 2012, 08:16 PM
Both are good guns. I've had both. But I'll throw this in, Ithaca 37 defense. I just bought one and the quality is outstanding. My last 590a1 and 870 don't even compare to my new 37. Fit and finish is near perfect. I read some people complain that the 37 defense is hard to clean do to the fixed barrel but I'll bet they never cleaned one. In (my opinion) it was easier to clean then my 590 and 870. And Ithaca's customer service can't be beat. I would really look into one before you decide on a final purchase.;)

February 4, 2012, 08:36 PM
Either is fine. They are in my opinion, interchangeable.

February 4, 2012, 08:36 PM
I have a maverick 88 (think cost reduced mossberg 500). I do not know how many thousands of shells it has seen, but it has been nothing other than stone cold reliable for me. It has been completely underwater and after a quick cleaning and oiling it kept going. Mossberg works fine for me, but I would not hesitate to get an 870 if I saw one for the right price.

Fred Fuller
February 5, 2012, 12:18 AM
Double barrels have been doing defensive duty for centuries. No reason they still can't, if the shooter is up to it. Take a look at . The whole DVD is worth while, IMHO, those are just highlights.

I'm not sold on the Double Defense, no need for all the rails, and I don't care for single trigger double barrels. One of Stoeger's double trigger SxSs will work, and doesn't cost any more.

Given a choice between a pump and a double, I'll take the pump...

February 5, 2012, 01:19 AM
Decide where you like your slide release and safety and then get the one that fits those criteria. If you have no preference to the locations of those then flip a coin. They are both good choices.

February 5, 2012, 08:49 AM
Like others have said

Tang Saftey

Bolt Release

Easy Loading

Easy Barrel Changes

Mossberg 500

I agree. I love my Mossberg 500 Persuader.

February 5, 2012, 09:12 AM
Really, it boils down to personal preferece and what you like. I have 870's, an M500 and an M590 and I would have no problem with any of them. Just replace the plastic safety button on the Mosssberg and avoid the Remington J-locks. Of course, this is if I was looking at buying an older or used gun. If I was buying a recent manufacture shotgun, I'd probably lean over towards Remington. Mossberg in the past few years has been distracted into making fantasy knife style shotguns where Remington has kept a more serious head on their shoulders. I would rather buy a defensive gun from a maker that takes this sort of thing seriously rather than a maker that would be more concerned that a muzzle brake or weed whacker handle is installed. Love my older pre-crack head Mossbergs but I wouldn't buy a new one these days.

February 5, 2012, 10:00 AM
A Remington 870 Police is a good choice .

February 5, 2012, 11:52 PM
Did the Mossberg 500 every find it's way to South East Asia during the struggle in Viet Nam? It was designed 1961 so could a field version with cut down barrel have been brought over or sent over?

February 6, 2012, 08:19 AM
pistol grip - 870, traditional stock - moss 500.

I much prefer the safety on the 500 on a traditional stock. I have a 500 and i love it.

Fred Fuller
February 6, 2012, 09:53 AM
Did the Mossberg 500 every find it's way to South East Asia during the struggle in Viet Nam? It was designed 1961 so could a field version with cut down barrel have been brought over or sent over?

The first Mossberg military contracts didn't come along until 1979 IIRC. There were no GI Mossbergs in Vietnam for which I can find any records.

Mossberg started producing security and police shotguns early along in its history but was something of a latecomer in approaching the military market. See the manual at ...

February 6, 2012, 03:47 PM
Whichever you prefer. I've hunted with both and prefer the Mossy's ergos much over the Remington. I keep neither for home defense, though.

February 6, 2012, 07:55 PM
I had a Mossberg 590A1 with a traditional stock, and front rifle sight/rear ghost ring. I still have the Remington 870 Tactical with the pistol grip stock, and a bead sight, drilled and tapped receiver.

I prefer the 870 Tactical because of the pistol grip. I also like that the 870 Tactical is drilled and tapped, and the barrel has a bead front snags.

That said, the 590A1 now is offered with the identical pistol grip as the 870 Tactical. Still don't care for the rifled sights of the 590A1. The fit and function of both was equal, and equal quality.

Fire both, take the one that fits you physically.


February 7, 2012, 07:59 PM
Fire both, take the one that fits you physically.

Mossberg offers a shim kit for adjusting stock cast and drop. Of course, one can do it with coke bottle plastic, what I did.

February 8, 2012, 09:21 AM
Which one has controls you like better? Know which one? Go with that one.

February 8, 2012, 10:46 PM
Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 for HD?

Easy: both.

July 21, 2012, 12:19 AM
I have to agree with what people are saying about the Mossberg 500. I owned an 870 previously, and recently bought the 500. It's lighter, it does indeed load easier, and the safety and release are in very ergonomic positions. I wouldn't go back to the 870 at this point.

Additionally, Mossberg seems to offer a lot of variants to suit personal taste. For example, Remington puts out a very standard Express 870 whereas you can get 500 Cruiser/Persuaders with different stock/barrel configurations.

The 500 I bought is cruiser/persuader with a short buttstock (13" LOP). The tag was labeled "HD" for home defense. It's a shorty shotty. With the 18.5" barrel, it's dainty enough that my wife will likely be very comfy using it with low-recoil shells. Also, my wife is a lefty and the ambidextrous safety is a really big plus. I was thinking I may have to do the his/her thing with shotguns. This will save me some dough.

July 21, 2012, 12:28 AM
The Mossberg 590 A1 in 18 inch barrel is also very good, they can be have around $ 470 at . These have the ghost ring rear sights and front post.

July 21, 2012, 12:34 AM
Another Mossberg 500 advantage is that it can fire 3" shells standard...I believe the 870 doesn't.

o Unforgiven o
July 21, 2012, 01:06 AM
Another Mossberg 500 advantage is that it can fire 3" shells standard...I believe the 870 doesn't.
False. 870's have been 3" standard for years, the only 2 3/4" shotgun Remington makes that I know of is the 1100.

July 21, 2012, 01:18 AM
Do you want six of the those or a half a dozen?

July 21, 2012, 01:49 AM
False. 870's have been 3" standard for years, the only 2 3/4" shotgun Remington makes that I know of is the 1100.

Ohh ok...I did not know that, thanks for correcting me...

July 21, 2012, 02:09 AM
Although early guns had one rail Mossberg 500 is basically dual rail version of old Remington 31. The Remington 870 is superior more modern design. Try to look for blued Police 'Wingmaster' (sometimes 'Wingmaster' name is replaced with 'Police Magnum')with short barrel those were the best of the bunch.

July 21, 2012, 11:26 AM
The 870 wingmaster is one fine shotgun. The 870 express is not in the same ballpark as the Mossberg 500 or the 870 Wingmaster. The express shoots just fine. But it's made of the cheapest components on the planet.

Fred Fuller
July 21, 2012, 11:59 AM
The 870 express is not in the same ballpark as the Mossberg 500 or the 870 Wingmaster

Must be true, the Int3rw3bZ say it all the time.

My experience differs however. While I have yet to buy ANY 870 new in the box so far in my 40 years of shooting them, I have yet to have any trouble with the several older model Express guns and the couple of newer (post magazine tube dimples) Express guns I have bought used through the years. I shoot one or another Express more than any of the other shotguns here, and if I were going to have problems with a shotgun it would seem likely to be with the ones I shoot most. But so far, no problems.

July 21, 2012, 01:00 PM
I have yet to see an express that had an adequate stock on it. Once I decide to keep a shotgun I take it to competent gunsmith for fitting. Hard to fit a composite stock or a 13.5" wood stock, unless you have a very slight build. Most gunsmiths want a 14.5" stock minimum, 15" is preferred. Not to mention the express receiver has the same finish as rough sandpaper.

In Feb 2012 I sold a mid 70s Wingmaster with a skeet #1 barrel and an overbored trap barrel for $750. I put up a sign at the local gun club one weekend. The next weekend I had a buyer for the gun.

I have yet to see a used express bring over $300, no matter how many extras the gun had.

Roadking Rider
July 21, 2012, 02:12 PM
Six of one half dozen of another. I have had my Mossberg Crusier for 15 + troublle free years. Don't rule out a 20 Ga for HD.

July 21, 2012, 02:37 PM
The Remington 870 is superior more modern design.

Not sure of the time line of which came first, but I'd say equals. try them both see which on e you like than buy both. I like the safety and the way the mossberg loads better. A used wingmaster in nice shape a beautiful thing.

Fred Fuller
July 21, 2012, 04:02 PM
I have yet to see a used express bring over $300

Which is their biggest advantage IMHO. A perfectly functional shotgun for not a lot of money - what's not to like?

July 21, 2012, 04:02 PM
My wife and I chose matching 500s. Reasons were simple. They were lighter than comparable 870s and more importantly, we don't short stroke and stove pipe the 500.

If I'm taking my time firing the 870 at the range, I have no problems. Put stress into the drills and I occasionally screw up thanks to my short (to me) arms. I have NEVER done that with the 500.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2

July 21, 2012, 05:37 PM
I just bought a 870 Police from Bud's. When it arrives I will be filling out a form 1 and sending my $200 tax off to the NFA Branch, I haven't yet decided whether to go with the standard 4+1 tube and a 12" barrel or the +1 extension and a 14" barrel. Either should be plenty handy. I'll add a side saddle shell holder and a light, that will be it.

Mossberg makes a fine shotgun, but I like the more solid feel of the 870, and I think the 870 Police series is the top of the heap when it comes to defensive pump guns. YMMV.

July 21, 2012, 05:54 PM
I am partial to the mossberg 500. Mine has the following add ons.

Ghost ring front and rear sight
Choate black synthetic forend
Tacstar 6 shot side saddle
Black heat shield
Blackhawk knoxx spec ops stock
Blackhawk powerpak shell carrier
Hogue hand all rubber grip
Limbsaver buttpad
Od green cerakote paint job
Vang comp systems metal safety
Quake Industries "The Claw" od green sling
I plan on having more done to it at a later date.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

July 21, 2012, 08:57 PM
For lefties, the answer is obvious. The Mossberg is much more lefty friendly. I also prefer the lack of a shell elevator in the way of loading. The Mossberg just has better ergos. But, yeah, if you're going to ruin the thing with a pistol grip, the safety doesn't work as well.

July 22, 2012, 12:31 AM
One other factor: The Mossberg 500 will save you some money. It's cheaper than the 870 straight away.

Additionally, if you can find the configuration you want in the 500, you will save yourself from having to pay out for a new buttstock, what have you.

July 24, 2012, 10:05 PM
I agree, use the K.I.S.S system. get a good round that will work for you. I use a Rem 870 at work and have no problems with iy.

July 25, 2012, 05:07 PM
Having owned both, and used both considerably, I a Remington 870 man. My 1958 870, which I bought some 30 years ago, works just fine and still does anything needed. The first gun I bought new was a Moss 500 and I proceeded to shot it into the ground. When the cost of the needed repair parts cost as much as it cost to buy, I sold it. I now have at least three 870s, which I will never be able to wear out no matter how often I shot them, and my grandchildren should be able to hand them down to their children too.

We had a 870 that had been lost in a hog barn for over a year, buried in pig doo, and when we cleaned it up (we boiled the shot out of it) it was still 99% usable! The extractor was in poor shape (very corroded, still worked however), no stock wood (at all), the extractor spring was toast (amazingly, the rest of the springs still worked, but we replaced them all anyway as some were obviously in bad shape), but except for the spring, everything worked!

Go look at IPSC shooters, serious duck hunters, trap shooters, you know, people who actually USE their shotguns and see how many of them use a Mossberg 500. Well I lived on the Mississippi for years and I never saw a Moss 500 in the duck blinds, although I suppose it could happen. I don't know of any trap shooters who use a 500 either. I saw plenty of Rem 870s in both places however.

July 26, 2012, 07:41 AM
I have 2 older Remington Wingmaster 870. They are a great gun but I have shot my son's Mossberg on many occasions here at the farm range and like it. An old gunsmith friend said he rarely had to repair the Mossberg 500 in his 50 years of gunmith work and always recommends them because of their reliability and design.

July 26, 2012, 12:42 PM
The are essentially the same tool. Do you prefer Estwing or Vaughn hammers?

Mossy's are slightly lighter and less expensive and marginally less quality IMO. Marginally. Safety is in on the top of the receiver. This only matters if you have a pistol grip because it's harder to reach.

Remy is slightly better IMO, but only slightly; a little heavier and pricier by a few dollars. Safety is behind the trigger, which is easier to reach if you have a pistol grip.

You can usually find them for around $300 used every day in the classifieds.

I have several of both and they both work fine and I've never had any issues.

I have two loaded in my house, a Remy 870 and a Mossy 500. They sit loaded with 00 buck with slugs in the sleeves.

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