Ruger GSR - Can't Close Bolt


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Captains1911
February 3, 2012, 09:42 AM
When cycling rounds, sometimes I am unable to move the bolt completely forward on a cartridge and lock it down. This happens sometimes when feeding from a magazine and sometimes when I manually place a single round in the chamber and then try to close the bolt. I was suspecting the the polymer magazines, but now I'm not so sure. It's as if the extractor claw is unable to get over and around the rim of the case and is rather being pushed into the back of it.

I noticed when I cycle the bolt very slowly, that as I move it forward and it begins to strip the cartridge from the mag, it gets to a point where the magazine spring tension "pops" the round up out of the mag before the bolt is forward enough to allow the extractor claw to grab the rim. Is this normal operation? Sometimes when this happens I am still able to close and lock the bolt down, but sometimes I am not. I don't see how this is any different from manually placing a single round in the chamber and closing the bolt on it.

I am not very experienced with bolt guns so any hep would be greatly appreciated.

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HOOfan_1
February 3, 2012, 10:32 AM
With most mausers, you can't push feed them. That is likely your problem

longdayjake
February 3, 2012, 11:20 AM
Yeah, you can't push feed a mauser bolt. It has to strip one from the mag.

Question. What kind of ammo are you using?

HOOfan_1
February 3, 2012, 11:53 AM
Yeah, you can't push feed a mauser bolt. It has to strip one from the mag.


CZ550 you can, not sure if there are others

Captains1911
February 3, 2012, 11:53 AM
Interesting, because Ruger specifically mentions this type of operation as an option in the manual.

The ammo is Federal 165gr from Wally World and Prvi Partizan 145gr. I have experienced the malfunction with both types of ammo, and I'm almost sure with the same 5rd polymer magazine and on the same (2nd) round of that magazine. Could this be mag related?

303tom
February 3, 2012, 12:03 PM
Have you tried lubrication ?

HOOfan_1
February 3, 2012, 12:28 PM
Interesting, because Ruger specifically mentions this type of operation as an option in the manual.


Well then Ruger is like the CZ 550 then. I did a google search and apparently many other modern Mausers have adopted that system

Captains1911
February 3, 2012, 12:30 PM
Have you tried lubrication ?

Of what part(s)? I have lightly lubed the bolt and action rails.

dprice3844444
February 3, 2012, 12:33 PM
check for burrs on the extractor or dirt in it

Captains1911
February 3, 2012, 01:20 PM
Extractor photos in this thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=641235

Sam1911
February 3, 2012, 01:38 PM
Ideally, the magazine spring should push the round up firmly and as the bolt starts to strip it from the magazine the case head should slide up the bolt face so the case rim slips under the extractor claw.

If the round pops free before it slides up and under, it may end up in front of the extractor claw, not under it. If that happens, you're trying to push-feed the round (like a Remington 700 does) instead of "Controlled Round Feed" it (like Mauser-based rifles do).

In a military Mauser, you generally should be able to still force the extractor claw to snap over the case rim in an emergency, but it isn't very good for it as a general practice, and shouldn't be necessary.

Now, you're mentioning that this mostly happens when you work the bolt very slowly.

DON'T. Learn the proper technique for operating a bolt and run it with authority -- smartly up, back hard, forward hard, down firmly -- as one continuous smooth motion. I'll bet your feeding problems will go away.

Babying it along certainly could cause the rounds to release a bit early and end up in the wrong place.

rcmodel
February 3, 2012, 01:51 PM
I don't think you have a problem.

The photo you posted clearly shows brass tracks on the angle bevel on the extractor where it has, at some point at least, snapped over more then one rim.

It takes a sizable amount of force on the bolt handle for that shallow bevel to flex the strong spring extractor enough to snap over the rim.
It should not be easy.

If you want it to snap easier, polish is so it isn't shaving brass and leaving brass tracks.

BTW: Most German military Mauser's could not be closed on a round in the chamber.

They could be easily modified to do so by grinding & polishing the bevel on the front edge of the extractor like your Ruger already has.

Most commercial 98 Mauser's already have the bevel and can snap over a rim.
As can the 1903 Springfield, Model 70 Winchester, etc.

rc

Sam1911
February 3, 2012, 02:13 PM
BTW: Most German military Mauser's could not be closed on a round in the chamber.Ah...I was going off the Springfield. Can't remmber having tried it with a K98.

243winxb
February 3, 2012, 02:29 PM
Rifle is Controled Feed, But can be loaded single shot. http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/features.html WARNING: If cartridges do not feed smoothly from the magazine into the
chamber then do not use the rifle until the problem is corrected. (See
“Warning - Malfunctions,” p. 18.) If a cartridge hangs up, jams, or binds when
being chambered or when being fed from the
magazine into the chamber, do not attempt to
force it into the chamber by pushing or striking
the bolt handle.
Most failures of a cartridge to feed or to
chamber are caused by improper loading of the
magazine or ammunition that is incorrect or
defective.
Whatever the cause, the gun user must, above
all, recognize that jams can result in the very
potentially dangerous situation of a cartridge
discharging before it is chambered. If this
occurs, the cartridge case will rupture and its
fragments will fly out of the gun with sufficient
force to cause injury.

HOOfan_1
February 3, 2012, 02:34 PM
Rifle is Controled Feed-Only feeds from the magazine. http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/features.html

actually as he pointed out, the manual specifically states you can drop a round in the chamber and close the bolt

https://ruger-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/_manuals/gunsiteScoutRifle.pdf

page 16 heading "To load and fire without magazine"
point #4

Place a cartridge directly into the chamber. Close the bolt handle fully
downward and

Captains1911
February 3, 2012, 02:55 PM
Just for clarification, the "malfunction" is not constant, but is somewhat frequent. Also, the only reason I was cycling the bolt slowly was to observe how it works, I realize it should not normally be operated in this fashion, however I will focus on closing the bolt quickly and see if that solves it.

It's interesting how there are mixed opinions on whether or not a round should be chambered manually and the bolt closed over it. I would like to learn more about this. Thanks for the help.

rcmodel
February 3, 2012, 03:00 PM
I would like to learn more about this.

Read page 16 of your owners manual.

rc

243winxb
February 3, 2012, 03:10 PM
Rifle is Controled Feed, But can be loaded single shot.I read the owners manual. :D http://www.ruger.com/products/_manuals/gunsiteScoutRifle.pdf

Sam1911
February 3, 2012, 03:13 PM
It's interesting how there are mixed opinions on whether or not a round should be chambered manually and the bolt closed over it. I would like to learn more about this. Thanks for the help.


If the manufacturer is advising that this technique is ok, then it IS! They've set up the extractor with the right geometry and finish (and quality and tempering of the steel) to be able to handle that kind of use without damage.

It is going to feel different (harder, more resistance) to close the bolt that way than in the normal CRF method.

Captains1911
February 3, 2012, 03:18 PM
Read page 16 of your owners manual.


I already referenced that info earlier in this thread, however there are people who still think it should not be done. When i try to load the rifle this way, it works smoothly sometimes but other times not at all, to the point where the force required to close the bolt is WAY more than I am comfortable with. I just don't understand why it's intermittent.

jmr40
February 3, 2012, 05:46 PM
With most mausers, you can't push feed them. That is likely your problem


With most modern Mauser type actions such as Ruger and Winchester it is perfectly safe to load directly into the chamber. On older guns it is not unless the extractor hs been modified.

SharpsDressedMan
February 3, 2012, 07:20 PM
If using handloaded ammo, you can encounter .308 brass that has been fired in other guns, some with oversized chambers, and the use of small base dies might be needed to resize cases better at the base, as is necessary for use in some semi-auto rifles with tighter chambers. Your rifle might just have a tight chamber, too.

Elkins45
February 4, 2012, 11:08 AM
If the manufacturer is advising that this technique is ok, then it IS! They've set up the extractor with the right geometry and finish (and quality and tempering of the steel) to be able to handle that kind of use without damage.

While I agree with you that it's OK for his Ruger if they say so, I still think its a bad habit to get into just in case he ever owns a military rifle with an unaltered extractor. Better to just get in the habit of always feeding from the magazine and avoid the problem completely.

Captains1911
February 4, 2012, 08:08 PM
I ran another 40 rds thru it today, all from mags, and operating the bolt quickly and with authority. Ammo was Prvi Partizan. I encountered one round this time that I could not close the bolt on. This problem always seems to occur with the same 5 rd polymer mag, and on the second round of the mag. I don't understand how the mag could be causing this, but it's too great a coincidence to rule out.

Sam1911
February 4, 2012, 09:12 PM
Trust what you see. Diagnosing feeding problems in any repeating arm ALWAYS starts with the mag. If you remove one mag from the equation and your problem stops completely -- that's your answer. True for AKs, ARs, 1911s -- just about everything.

Now, if that doesn't fix it, or doesn't completely fix it, let Ruger have a whack at it.

ECVMatt
February 4, 2012, 09:47 PM
I have owned many, many Ruger M77's and you can load a round in the chamber and close the bolt with no ill effect. I have done this for years and it has not effect on the extractor. You might try changing brands of ammo. I have a GSR and it is been a good gun. You can always call Ruger for help; they are pretty good folks.

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