The Akins Accelerator is back!


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sturmgewehr
February 3, 2012, 10:27 AM
The Akins Accelerator bump-fire stock for the Ruger 10/22 is back. The stock that took the gun community by storm and caused the ruckus at the ATF has risen from the ashes! I had the chance to fire this stock at SHOT Show 2012 and it ran perfectly. No springs are present in this new version, it instead relies upon "isometric" mechanics where your non-shooting hand provides the spring power to make it work. This one is ATF approved and I will be testing it out over the next few days.

Look for a full review on my channel that will be posted shortly: http://www.military-arms.com.

http://www.intempusphotography.com/photos/i-kn7Vsvg/0/L/i-kn7Vsvg-L.jpg
http://www.intempusphotography.com/photos/i-S5dBFKT/0/L/i-S5dBFKT-L.jpg
http://www.intempusphotography.com/photos/i-tqdxJt4/0/L/i-tqdxJt4-L.jpg
http://www.intempusphotography.com/photos/i-kXbH56z/0/L/i-kXbH56z-L.jpg

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jogar80
February 3, 2012, 10:46 AM
Nice! How much?

Sam1911
February 3, 2012, 10:46 AM
How is it different from the Slidefire AR-15 stock?

W.E.G.
February 3, 2012, 10:50 AM
How is it different from the Slidefire AR-15 stock?

For starters, it appears that it is DESIGNED for .22 RF use, and for the Ruger 10/22 in particular.

Sam1911
February 3, 2012, 10:58 AM
Right. But how does it work differently?

az_imuth
February 3, 2012, 11:04 AM
I can see the BX-25 mags flying off the shelves as I read this. ;)

sturmgewehr
February 3, 2012, 12:18 PM
It doesn't work any differently than the Slide Fire stock in that it relies upon your non-shooting hand to supply the "spring" tension for it to bump-fire. It's basically the same Akins Accelerator stock minus the spring system, and instead uses isometric tension to replace the springs. You pull forward, it fires, the recoil pushes the action rearward, you continue to pull forward and it again fires.

bigfatdave
February 3, 2012, 12:21 PM
price

need price

I have no interest in simulated full auto in centerfire, I'm simply not willing to turn that much money into noise

But in .22lr? I'd buy a gun and a kit to play that game! (charger, perhaps?)

JFrame
February 3, 2012, 12:59 PM
Yup -- I've got a couple of modded 10/22's...Depending on the price, one of them will be more than happy to accommodate this accessory... :cool:


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sturmgewehr
February 3, 2012, 01:29 PM
They are retailing for $650.

$300 of that cost is in the Kidd trigger which is required for proper function.

I've fired it and it works very well. The cyclic rate is insane.

DoubleTapDrew
February 3, 2012, 02:06 PM
The price sounds better than the original. Hopefully the ATF won't change their ruling again and require owners to send in their fingers.

JFrame
February 3, 2012, 02:22 PM
The price sounds better than the original.Yup -- IIRC, the original cost well over 900 dollars. Of course, the mechanism back then didn't require the assistance of another digit to make it work.

Hopefully the ATF won't change their ruling again and require owners to send in their fingers.Now THAT'S funny! :D


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JFrame
February 3, 2012, 02:25 PM
They are retailing for $650.

$300 of that cost is in the Kidd trigger which is required for proper function.

I've fired it and it works very well. The cyclic rate is insane.


Hmmm...Still a little steep -- but that price is sounding doable...Especially since so many 10/22 after-market products, and trigger housings in particular, are pricey anyway...


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S.W.G.
February 3, 2012, 03:13 PM
They are retailing for $650.


I was really excited until I read that...

I mean, really, how much would it cost to fabricate the fancy trigger at home? $30?
Buy a flat trigger and tune the pull weight really low. Not exactly rocket science.

Will they sell the stock separately for a reasonable price? Anything over $100 would feel like a rip off.

No springs are present in this new version, it instead relies upon "isometric" mechanics where your non-shooting hand provides the spring power to make it work.

So, in English, you push it forward?:rolleyes:

It's basically the same Akins Accelerator stock minus the spring system

So you can't even justify the price by claiming 'research and development costs'?

You're charging $350 for a molded plastic stock? $350 buys a lot of bulk .22.

maskedman504
February 3, 2012, 03:32 PM
Sounds like you are not the target demographic S.W.G. :)

holdencm9
February 3, 2012, 03:35 PM
So how is this different than a tapco stock with vertical foregrip, and an aftermarket trigger with very little reset? (Besides the trigger being straight.)

I ask because for under $200, you can get the tapco stock, foregrip, and aftermarket trigger assembly.

ifit
February 3, 2012, 03:47 PM
pretty cool, can you control round bursts on this as you can with the slidefire? found a video on youtube, but they constantly mag dump

JFrame
February 3, 2012, 05:09 PM
Look for a full review on my channel that will be posted shortly: http://www.military-arms.com.


Hey, Sturm -- please let us know on this thread when you upload the review, so we'll be sure not to miss it! :)


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sturmgewehr
February 3, 2012, 05:14 PM
JFrame, I'll be sure to make a post here.

sturmgewehr
February 3, 2012, 05:15 PM
ifit, yes you can do controlled bursts. It functions exactly the same as the Slide Fire Solutions stocks.

S.W.G.
February 3, 2012, 05:21 PM
The company that is marketing the new stock has a promotional video up: click (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxCX3UtqnJQ&feature=related).

I stand by what I said about the price, but man that looks like a lot of fun. :what:

sturmgewehr
February 3, 2012, 05:26 PM
So you can't even justify the price by claiming 'research and development costs'?

You're charging $350 for a molded plastic stock? $350 buys a lot of bulk .22.
I have no need to justify anything, nor am I charging anything for the stock. I'm a gun writer, not a manufacturer. When I learn of a new product, I do my best to secure one, review it and share the info with our community.

sturmgewehr
February 3, 2012, 05:27 PM
I've often joked that next we'll having a ruling from the ATF banning the use or possession of trigger fingers.

whetrock
February 3, 2012, 05:30 PM
650 $ is a lot of money but still it is much cheaper than going the pre-86 route I'd like to have one, but at the moment it doesn't really seem like a wise investment but maybe in a month or two I may change my mind. I didn't really care much for the slide fire AR-15 stock seeing as .223 ammo ( even when reloading ) is pretty pricey and a 22LR will be much easier on the wallet. I'm not totally convinced the akins Accelerator is totally worth 650 $ but with the ATF being so lax I wouldn't be too terribly suprised if some company comes out with a cheaper ( possibly lesser quality ) imported version of it.

jogar80
February 3, 2012, 05:34 PM
Dang, $650 is high...... but I WANT it!! If I had that much on me to throw away right now I'd get it RIGHT NOW! But it don't, so time to start collecting aluminum cans, heh.

Acera
February 3, 2012, 06:14 PM
Here is their website, and a video.
http://fostechoutdoors.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-home.cgi?d=fostech-outdoor-llc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxCX3UtqnJQ

roklok
February 3, 2012, 06:43 PM
I found this video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9N0RXzpovk&feature=related

According to this video, and Bill Akins comments below, Bill Akins licensed his patent to Fostech outdoors. Does this spell the end of the Slide Fire stocks ? Bill Akins has maintained his patent covers the Slide Fire stocks. He reportedly was trying to reach an agreement with Slide -Fire, it looks like he went another direction, and if Slide -Fire was actually infringing upon his patent, it does not look good for them.

S.W.G.
February 3, 2012, 07:25 PM
I have no need to justify anything, nor am I charging anything for the stock. I'm a gun writer, not a manufacturer. When I learn of a new product, I do my best to secure one, review it and share the info with our community.

Whoops. That was bad wording on my part, I should have said 'they' (as in the company) rather then 'you'.

bob barker
February 3, 2012, 07:49 PM
All its going to take is for someone to use one of these slide fire stocks in a drive by or shoot up a house and POOF! They will be banned.

wally
February 3, 2012, 08:12 PM
I didn't really care much for the slide fire AR-15 stock seeing as .223 ammo ( even when reloading ) is pretty pricey and a 22LR will be much easier on the wallet.

The Slide-Fire works fine on a 9mm AR carbine and my 7.62x25 AR upper. Still a lot more expensive than bulk pack .22LR from WalMart, but gets the cost down to like shooting off fireworks, especially if you reload 9mm as I do or stocked up deep on 7.62x25 when it was like $110/1200 rounds as I did.

There is youTube video of a guy who got his to work on an M&P 22, I may try his trick again with my Spike's dedicated .22LR upper which didn't work at all when I tried it with the Slide-Fire.

sturmgewehr
February 3, 2012, 11:36 PM
I misspoke when I said it was $650, it's actually $629.

As for seeing cheap knock-offs coming into the country, right now you have a patent held by Fostech (formerly held by Bill Akins) and you have a patent filed by Slide Fire Solutions that just received it's NOA (notice of acceptance). If a company tried to import knock-offs, I'm pretty sure the two patent holders would take legal action to stop it.

sturmgewehr
February 3, 2012, 11:38 PM
I never got my Slide Fire SSAR15 to work with my AR using a Ciener .22 conversion kit. But I've gotten it to work with all center fire cartridges from 9mm, .223 to 5.45x39.

sturmgewehr
February 3, 2012, 11:39 PM
Whoops. That was bad wording on my part, I should have said 'they' (as in the company) rather then 'you'.
No biggie. :)

pktrkt
February 4, 2012, 02:37 AM
If I could figure out how to post a video I could show you how the M&P 15-22 and the Slidefire works. The only thing is you have to change out the stock trigger for a drop-in CM 3.5 lb or a Rock River 2 stage trigger, either one seems to work just depends on whichever you can find cheapest. We never could get the 22 conversion from CMMG or other dedicated uppers to work reliably and we tried pretty much all available. The M&P is just so much lighter and it recoils harder so it will function the Slidefire stock reliably. Also the new style Slidefire works better than the 1st version, IMHO
And yep we are getting our order ready for the Atkins 10-22 Accelerator and trying it on a suppressed 10-22.

Inebriated
February 4, 2012, 02:50 AM
If this were cheaper, I'd love one... .22LR is the only thing I'd ever want to shoot in full auto.

M91/30
February 4, 2012, 04:08 AM
Seems like alot of money to spray ammo... How does it work? is it just a really light trigger with a stock slightly better for bump firing? I suppose people will buy this but Ill still take an accurate single shot over inaccurate spraying. Even for messing around.

JFrame
February 4, 2012, 12:17 PM
On Rimfirecentral, one original Akins Accelerator owner is reporting that Fostech will retrofit the earlier model to the new configuration for a nominal fee...I think that's pretty decent of them, as they really weren't responsible for the way BATFE screwed over the company.


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HKGuns
February 4, 2012, 12:23 PM
Really? That much money to completely jack up an otherwise good 10/22? I really don't see the point. I'll pass on that contraption at any price.

JFrame
February 4, 2012, 12:26 PM
Really? That much money to completely jack up an otherwise good 10/22? I really don't see the point. I'll pass on that contraption at any price.

Without the Akins Accelerator, I probably have more money invested (blown?) in my two 10/22's for modifications than all my other guns put together.

It's a "thing," I guess -- the 10/22 is sort of the Transformer of firearms, for a subculture that's into this sort of thing. :D


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FuzzyBunny
February 4, 2012, 12:44 PM
WOW a $600+ plastic stock for a $100 Rifle.
I'm sure there is a market!

I think when we start talking that kind of money I would spend a little extra and get a sound limiter that I could use on a few different guns.

But that is me because I hate ear plugs and muffs.

JFrame
February 4, 2012, 01:01 PM
WOW a $600+ plastic stock for a $100 Rifle.
I'm sure there is a market!

I think when we start talking that kind of money I would spend a little extra and get a sound limiter that I could use on a few different guns.

But that is me because I hate ear plugs and muffs.


I got a threaded barrel for one of my 10/22's, specifically for the purpose of adding a suppressor at some point.

Money pit -- thy name is 10/22!!! :D


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bigfatdave
February 4, 2012, 01:20 PM
FuzzyBunny, to be fair, a decent 10/22 is at least a $200 rifle - plus the cost of some drop-in parts and nicer sighting device

Still, $629 does seem a bit high, I'll just have to hope the price drops in the long run.

HKGuns
February 4, 2012, 08:43 PM
It's a "thing," I guess -- the 10/22 is sort of the Transformer of firearms, for a subculture that's into this sort of thing.

Hey, wait a minute! You're in DC, here I was thinking there weren't no stinking guns in DC?? :)

JFrame
February 5, 2012, 12:04 AM
Hey, wait a minute! You're in DC, here I was thinking there weren't no stinking guns in DC?? :)

Good eyes, HK! :)

I say "DC" to give a general idea of my geographic proximity to the folks on this forum -- but I'm actually about 4 miles on the other side of the border in the Old Dominion... :cool:

I do, however, have to cross the river into that G---forsaken land more often than I care to, in the course of my job... :D


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mopar92
June 1, 2012, 02:00 PM
Wonder if that stock allows guys with the fully integrated suppressor barrels to still use one of these? Or do you need to rock a stock barrel?

JustinJ
June 1, 2012, 02:14 PM
At that price i'd just buy an AK slidefire and a few tins of 7N6 and have much more fun than with rimfire. Or throw it on a Saiga 12 and have a blast with cheap bird shot.

Magoo
June 1, 2012, 03:50 PM
I wonder if they'll make the stock available without the trigger group (I've already got a couple of Kidd trigger groups). I also wonder why they had to go with the two stage, and what poundage(s) they've got it tuned to. If you do a review, I'd love to see you adjust the trigger to varying pull weights and see what the results are.

Currently my two stage is set at 8oz/8oz and the single stage is at 2lbs.

In response to an earlier post: Tuning a factory Ruger trigger to less than 2lbs and having it be safe and reliable is, as far as I've ever heard, next to impossible.

JFrame
June 1, 2012, 05:23 PM
I wonder if they'll make the stock available without the trigger group (I've already got a couple of Kidd trigger groups). I also wonder why they had to go with the two stage, and what poundage(s) they've got it tuned to. If you do a review, I'd love to see you adjust the trigger to varying pull weights and see what the results are.

Currently my two stage is set at 8oz/8oz and the single stage is at 2lbs.

In response to an earlier post: Tuning a factory Ruger trigger to less than 2lbs and having it be safe and reliable is, as far as I've ever heard, next to impossible.

I can't recall where I read it (here on THR or over at Rimfirecentral...? :confused: ), but I understand Fostech bundles the Kidd trigger with the AA2 because they know the Accelerator works with that trigger, and they can avoid a lot of customer difficulties and hassles with the bundle. But someone suggested that if you contact Fostech, tell them you have a Kidd housing or comparable trigger, and are willing to waive reliability issues, they might be willing to cut you a deal.

Sorry -- can't cite where I read that at this point...


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7thCavScout
June 1, 2012, 06:21 PM
Ugh, I just watched the promotional video. I must have one.

mopar92
June 1, 2012, 07:23 PM
Will a fully integrated barrel fit this stock???

Magoo
June 1, 2012, 07:29 PM
Okay, so I've wasted an hour or so watching videos and looking at pictures :scrutiny:.

I'm not seeing what makes their stock so specially adapted to shouldered bumpfire over any other pistol grip 10/22 stock that had a forward grip. Why can't I take, say a Butler Creek folder, slap a forward grip on it and be good to go? Granted, I've not played with this and have not compared their stock in person with anything else. I could see that maybe they've "perfected" the pistol grip configuration to optimize the effect. It'd seem with some Bubba-ing I could make the interface of the BC stock and the Kidd trigger group work though. Maybe not.

My search over at RFC turned up just two short threads. Surely with all the wackos in there (myself included :uhoh:) someone has played around with the idea.

zoom6zoom
June 1, 2012, 09:09 PM
Hopefully the ATF won't change their ruling again and require owners to send in their fingers.
I'm sure many of us would gladly give ATF the finger if so required.

Bill Akins
June 2, 2012, 09:32 PM
Magoo wrote:

Okay, so I've wasted an hour or so watching videos and looking at pictures .

I'm not seeing what makes their stock so specially adapted to shouldered bumpfire over any other pistol grip 10/22 stock that had a forward grip. Why can't I take, say a Butler Creek folder, slap a forward grip on it and be good to go? Granted, I've not played with this and have not compared their stock in person with anything else. I could see that maybe they've "perfected" the pistol grip configuration to optimize the effect. It'd seem with some Bubba-ing I could make the interface of the BC stock and the Kidd trigger group work though. Maybe not.

I'll try to answer your questions Magoo.
What makes the Fostech Outdoors AA2, 10/22 stock so specially adapted to shouldered bumpfire over any other pistol grip 10/22 stock that has a forward grip,....is because of several things.

1. The receiver barrel and trigger group are supported by two hardened rods which slide on precision linear bearings, said bearings being situated in a housing which is located and attached in the fore end of the stock.

2. The forward pistol grip is attached to a housing that is attached to the rods which are in turn attached via another attachment piece to the receiver. When forward isometric tension is exerted against the fore end pistol grip, as the barreled receiver/trigger group recoils, it temporarily overcomes the shooter's constant forward tension, but immediately as the recoil dissipates, the shooter's constant forward tension then causes the action to move back forwardly again, thus bringing the trigger back into contact with the finger and the process is repeated....very fast.

There are actually several ways you may operate it to bumpfire. There is a "finger stop" designed to hold your trigger finger in a stationary position so the trigger may contact the trigger finger consistently each time. You may first place your trigger finger on the finger stop and then push forward on the fore end pistol grip thus bringing the trigger forward into contact with your (stabilized on the finger stop) trigger finger, thus functioning the trigger. Or, you may first push the fore end grip forward which brings the trigger forward of the finger stops, and then function the trigger and after functioning the trigger, your trigger finger will naturally contact the finger stop where you keep it tensioned against. Or you may arch your trigger finger and place it on the finger stop in such a way that it doesn't function the trigger yet, but as you straighten out the arch of your finger, while keeping your finger on the finger stop, it then functions the trigger. Any of those several methods will work to operate the bumpfiring mode. There are also several ways to fire single shots in non bumpfire mode. One way is you simply tension harder against the fore grip thus not allowing the recoil to bring the action back, or after firing the first shot, you simply release any forward tension against the fore grip. The stock's butt is able to be tightly held against the shooter's shoulder. Everything I have written above is how it is so specially adapted to shouldered bumpfiring.

You could not do the same thing simply "Bubba'ing" and putting a fore end pistol grip on a Butler Creek stock as you mentioned. The Butler Creek stock is not designed nor able to do what I described above. For you to "Bubba" make your own stock that would do the same thing as the AA2, you would have to not only custom build all the parts I've mentioned, but also have to custom build your own stock with a wider fore end to fit them into. That would cost you more time and money to do that than if you just bought the Fostech Outdoors AA2.

I know it may be hard to visualize what I've described without having one in hand to inspect, but I hope my description answered your questions.


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gfanikf
June 8, 2012, 04:55 PM
So do we get an BATFE letter if we buy this like they have with the Slide Fire?

Bill Akins
June 8, 2012, 07:03 PM
Fostech Outdoors has BATFE approval letters available for you to read or download at their website.


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Magoo
June 8, 2012, 08:01 PM
Straight from the horses mouth! (no offense intended, Bill ;))

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and prove to me I didn't understand what was going on (big surprise :o). After my post I had seen the inner guts picture of the stock and assumed there was more going on than I could Bubba, but it's much clearer to me now.

I'm glad to see your product back out in the marketplace and wish you all the best. I can't imagine the headaches you went through before, but hopefully the reincarnation will at least provide you with some peace of mind/vendication.

Bill Akins
June 8, 2012, 08:08 PM
Glad to be of help Magoo. Also thank you very much for your kind words.


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gfanikf
June 9, 2012, 01:11 AM
Fostech Outdoors has BATFE approval letters available for you to read or download at their website.


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Cool, being a lawyer by trade I always find BATFE letters interesting to read...even if denying something good.

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