Integrated Suppressor and Barrel Length


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CmdrSlander
February 3, 2012, 05:43 PM
If a rifle has 10" barrel but also had a permanently attached Suppressor that brings it to a legal 16" is it considered an SBR? The idea is to do do an MP5SD style set up with an RRA LAR-9 blowback operated 9mm carbine and a KAC FF RAS.

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Saakee
February 3, 2012, 05:49 PM
If it's permanent, it's not an SBR

CmdrSlander
February 3, 2012, 05:51 PM
Would I install the suppressor to the short barrel, permanently attach the two and then mount it on the rifle? (to avoid the rifle being an SBR at any time) I'm fairly sure it is legal to possess an unregistered SBR barrel, so long as it isn't installed.

Saakee
February 3, 2012, 05:56 PM
That would be the best way BUT an upper is just machined parts. It's not something you register, just the lower receiver. SBR the lower anyway if you can afford to. Someday you'll want to put an other upper on it OR take off that suppressor for some reason (off for repairs perhaps).

Telekinesis
February 3, 2012, 05:58 PM
As long as the suppressor is permanently attached and the overall length is over 16", it is not technically a SBR. I'm not sure of the manufacture process if you are doing it yourself though. If you have a lower and the short upper, you are technically in constructive possession of a SBR and need the stamp, even if it's not put together.

CmdrSlander
February 3, 2012, 06:05 PM
I could have someone put it together, what kind of licensing would the shop need?

Saakee
February 3, 2012, 06:06 PM
As long as the suppressor is permanently attached and the overall length is over 16", it is not technically a SBR. I'm not sure of the manufacture process if you are doing it yourself though. If you have a lower and the short upper, you are technically in constructive possession of a SBR and need the stamp, even if it's not put together.
I hate constructive possession so much. i have enough scrap metal in my back yard right now to make a few dozen lightning links for my ARs if the ATF ever decided I was a bad, bad boy.

#CHEEZITITSTHEFUZZ

I should've suggested building a pistol receiver as well. It makes for having the utility of not needing to SBR your rifle receiver AND having the versatility of having a pistol AR around JIC.

CmdrSlander
February 3, 2012, 06:22 PM
Here's a PMG mockup of the rifle:
http://i41.tinypic.com/14lmu0h.jpg

Saakee
February 3, 2012, 06:23 PM
I may be wrong but I think you'll want the red dot up higher so you can properly co-witness and a front sight would be helpful.

CmdrSlander
February 3, 2012, 06:24 PM
The front sight is integrated into the RAS. The RDS is optional and probably to much $$$ for me anyways :cuss:.

CmdrSlander
February 3, 2012, 06:26 PM
Here is a picture of the integrated front sight deployed: http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee21/dannylanee/Danny/IMG_5043.jpg

Saakee
February 3, 2012, 06:27 PM
Ah. Take a look at a vortex strikefire. about 150ish if you shop around.
edit: Ahh, very cool sight.

ImmortalArms
February 4, 2012, 12:20 PM
Because you would probably have to leave the suppressor with the shop to do the work, they would need to be a licensee.

Q: May a licensed gunsmith receive an NFA firearm for purposes of repair?

Yes, for the sole purpose of repair and subsequent return to its owner. It is suggested that the owner obtain permission from ATF for the transfer by completing and mailing ATF Form 5 (5320.5) to the NFA Branch and receive approval prior to the delivery. The gunsmith should do the same prior to returning the firearm.

Only the face of the form needs to be completed in each instance. ATF Forms 5 may be obtained from the Bureau of ATF, NFA Branch. ATF Form 5 is also available on the internet at www.atf.gov

rjrivero
February 4, 2012, 07:46 PM
Integrated Suppressor and Barrel Length
If a rifle has 10" barrel but also had a permanently attached Suppressor that brings it to a legal 16" is it considered an SBR? The idea is to do do an MP5SD style set up with an RRA LAR-9 blowback operated 9mm carbine and a KAC FF RAS.

I ran into this very issue with my brother. He lives in Michigan. As of Sept 2, 2011 Suppressors are good to go, but sbrs and sbs are illegal in Michigan.

Putting a suppressor on a 16" AR barrel is like kissing your sister (so I'm told.)

Therefore, we decided to take advantage of the ATF's definition of barrel length. In ATF 5320.8, chapter 2, it explains that a barrel must be at least 16" in order to maintain a Title 1 designation. It says you can permanently attach a muzzle device and it would count to the overall length of the barrel.

So, with the help of ADCO FIREARMS (http://www.adcofirearms.com), this was born:
http://www.revolverforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=46&pictureid=286

This is a 9mm AR on a Lone Wolf Lower with a Rock River upper. The barrel was made specifically for a Trident-9 suppressor. The barrel itself is about 10". The permanently attached muzzle device brings the barrel to 16.25" and the suppressor attaches to the barrel under the muzzle device. The muzzle device fits over the suppressor, but under a YHM handrail. This one is a mid-length.

You have to commit to a hand rail, because the barrel nut gets trapped when the muzzle device is permanently attached.

Works great and handles like a 16" AR. The suppressor plus barrel is about 16.75"

crawfobj
February 5, 2012, 01:56 AM
RJRIVERO, that's very cool. What would one call that muzzle device that you used? Didn't see something like that on Adco's page.

That's very much like the Tacsol barrel that my brother has on his 10-22. Very nice way to keep the OAL convenient when the can is threaded on. I like this idea for a 9mm upper I'm building.

rjrivero
February 5, 2012, 09:17 AM
thanks cawfobj. It's not on Adco's website. Send an email to Steve@adcofirearms.com

They made it as a custom order. I drew it up and bought the material. Then I sat down with them (they're local) and worked to get it manufactured. They're talking about adding it to their shop services, but they don't believe there will be a big demand for them.

They'll need to know what kind of suppressor you're going to use (because that effects the overall barrel length under the muzzle device).

There is a place in Washington State that also manufactures just the muzzle devices. Theirs are ported like the Tac-Sol barrels.

Sam Cade
February 6, 2012, 03:26 PM
The front sight is integrated into the RAS. The RDS is optional and probably to much $$$ for me anyways :cuss:.

If you can afford a $300+ URX rail and the proprietary $260 wrench to put it on you can afford whatever optic you want.

Zak Smith
February 6, 2012, 10:55 PM
I strongly recommend against permanently mounting a suppressor to a short barrel to avoid the SBR tax, for several reasons:

(1) maintenance, including cleaning the barrel, is considerably more complicated

(2) repairs including configuration changes or replacing barrels is impossible or at least more complicated

(3) if you're going to get the suppressor, it makes more sense to get one you can use on multiple hosts - indefinitely. Uppers come and go but you're realistically "married" to the suppressor forever.

MasterSergeantA
February 7, 2012, 01:18 PM
There is a place in Washington State that also manufactures just the muzzle devices. Theirs are ported like the Tac-Sol barrels.
Yup. This is them (I think).

https://dbmg-llc.3dcartstores.com/Flash-Hiders_c_8.html

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