Armed with only a rake and good intentions.


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blarby
February 3, 2012, 10:39 PM
First off, let me be very apologetic in the length of this post.

It has come to my attention on reasonable( yet undisclosable, due to my not wanting to jeopardize anyone) authority that BLM/forestry in Eugene is very seriously considering closing "shooting pits" in my area.

The reason for this is that many of the areas we use as informal shooting sites are also "rock dumps", as in areas they use for crushed rock storage used to maintain logging roads.

Of particular concern to the BLM/forestry is that some of these sites appear to have become contaminated with things such as , but not limited to :

Paint cans
Motor oil containers
Fuel containers
Accelerant containers ( spray paint cans, lithium grease, carb cleaners, etc)

Which have caused "rainbow sheens" in the surface puddles contained at these sites.

They are particularly concerned that using the rock contained at these sites may distribute these contaminants along the roads they are destined to maintain with them.

In addition, many sites have debris such as MATTRESSES AND TELEVISIONS, MANNEQUINS, LARGE BOARDS AND PLYWOOD, AND BROKEN GLASS that make traversing these sites hazardous for the crews that must regularly access them.

In the discussions that spurred me to action, the individual seemed more personally concerned with the noticeable hazardous debris that his crews were having to circumvent, than the "rainbow sheens"...however he has bosses too, and they've noticed.

I was not surprised by these "revelations". Nor should anyone who frequents informal shooting sites.

I was however horrified to learn that some of my new favorite haunts were in jeopardy of being lost, possibly forever.

I could not do nothing.

Over the past several days, I have begun to attempt cleanup at the largest of these rock sites ( my favorite ).

I have attached a few photos snapped by my wife to document my progress....I refused to take pictures....it was/is really bad. I didn't want any showing the very beginning for fear of them floating around to the wrong folks ( small world, ya know) She refuses to go to the end of the site, due to the amount of very dangerous stuff down there. There are literally piles of stuff making that embankment at the end you could fall in to...I have :). Once I'm done, I will attach a few clicks of the pile.

I have come to the realization, however, that this undertaking is more than I can handle alone. Particularly the disposal of debris.

Hidden behind the end of that rock pile is a rapidly growing pile of refuse I can't clear on my own, nor can I obscure any longer. Its contents include, ( but sadly arent limited to) about 150/200 gallon jug sized plastic bottles, 5 mattresses ( very heavy and hard to move when cold and wet, and covered in dunes of broken glass.....especially the king sized one, although at least that one had handles...:fire:..) enough broken plywood to originally build a few outhouses, 3 televisions, the remains of a leagues worth of bowling balls, two truck beds full of assorted cans ( paint, oil, and beer) a mannequin or two, two arm casts ( this was amusing), a pile of clothing about knee high...riddled with holes, a large assortment of shoes and boots, a refrigerator, 2 stoves ( whats left of them) a heap of vacuum cleaner and coffeemaker pieces, and approx 10k shotgun hulls.

I'm wondering what I can do with this pile.

I no longer have the ability or the materials to sufficiently permanently obscure this debris. I have been told in no uncertain terms that the rocks adjacent to this pit ( for obvious reasons) can't be used to bury the material.

I am ashamed that I can't do more, faster. I'm also distressed to learn that there are many more sites subject to review as the spring thaw approaches, I am only one man.

With this said..........

The individual who has brought this to my attention has stated that he himself uses ares such as this pit, and that he has no problem with the activity that occurs there. He does however have a serious problem with the remains, and is running out of ways to explain its ( and many more sites like it) existence and resultant complications. He said in so many words that if folks would take some ownership of these sites, his end would be a lot easier........ and that these sites would draw far less scrutiny from his superiors if they weren't allowed to exist in such a state.

So my questions are :

1. How would you dispose of this pile ?
2. How ( if even possible) would you prevent it from recurring.
3. Do you think its even worthwhile to attempt this ( even though its a little late to NOT attempt it) given the circumstances.

My requests are :

1. If you live in Oregon, and frequent any of the Cougar Road ( near Eugene) and its extensions' shooting sites, please make note of this very true plea and remove as much material as you can.

2. If you shoot at these sites, please refrain from bringing petrochem items to the sites...I can't rake that stuff up !

3. If you happen upon one of these sites and I'm there....please offer a bottle of water, not a middle finger and curses that I'm blocking your weekends' shooting. ( ya, this did actually happen)

4. If you know of any of these sites that I dont ( very likely ) please PM me their location. If you arent or don't want to assist in their cleanup, thats fine- I'll do what I can with the two hands god gave me.

5. If you have any ability to assist in any of this, please PM me.... I would take ANY support in this endeavor. I specifically need a new metal rake....some of my tools are faltering.

And last but not least..........

Please forward this information to any other persons you may know, on any forums, in any gun store, or to anyone that will or would care.... we are in VERY SERIOUS jeopardy of losing the Cougar Road sites and many more.... I don't want that to happen.

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firesky101
February 4, 2012, 12:22 AM
I wish all our fellow humans would be so level headed. One of my favorite local ranges had a bunch of tires dumped at it. As my dad and I were plinking at some paper we set up a ranger stopped by and asked if the tires were our targets. I don't shoot tires and told the ranger no, not ours, but if he wants to drive his 4x4 down there I would help him load them up. Tread lightly everyone, the anti's will look for any reason to shut down our stomping grounds.

medalguy
February 4, 2012, 12:28 AM
Looks like a place on BLM land near Albuquerque where I shoot. I've tried cleaning up what I can but like blarby, I cant haul off and dispose of a truckload of TV sets, computers, paint cans, glass, and the rest of it all by myself.

Guys, PLEASE don't bring this stuff onto public land and leave it. And if you see others doing this, please ask them to clean up their mess. We're going to lose the privilege of using public lands if this continues.

xjsnake
February 4, 2012, 12:44 AM
State forest in Tn where I used to work looked like a cross between a garbage dump and a warzone from all the spent casings on the ground.

It just enrages me to see what people dump in the middle of the woods so that it's no longer their problem...

blarby
February 4, 2012, 03:25 AM
What I find most interesting is that they police their brass and good hulls, and leave the crappy hulls and their trash behind.

:scrutiny:

Nushif
February 4, 2012, 06:48 AM
I am up in the Mary's Peak area, so Eugene is a bit of a drive. But PM me and I could at least help with some time to clean up some sites inbetween.
I have a short obligation coming up here in a bit, but after that I am once again free.

Love the fact that you're like ... Going out there and just doing something about a problem.

newbuckeye
February 4, 2012, 07:35 AM
Why don't you contact your local garbage hauler and see if they will "donate" a dumpster for a community clean up day. You get a few people to load it, they get a tax write off and good PR.

hogshead
February 4, 2012, 07:53 AM
Well I'm on the other side of the country but the problem is the same. A few lazy people ruin it for the rest of us. Glad to see you are trying . Good luck.

btg3
February 4, 2012, 08:10 AM
2. How ( if even possible) would you prevent it from recurring.

If my job and paycheck depended on straightening out this mess, along with myriad other responsibilitites, the easy and probable action is to CLOSE IT and move on to the next issue.

If I have an interest in keeping it open:
1. Develop a proposal.
2. Present it to the authorities with eagerness to adjust it to their desires.
3. Agree on who will do what and by when.
4. Monitor the plan and keep authorities updated with progress.
5. Monitor the results for at least a year and report periodically to authorities.

The proposal might include:
1 Continuing to organize a cleanup (state specifically how and by when)
2 Post signs explaining the issue to anyone that continues to use the site
3 Organizing support via publicity
4 Installing a lock box to collect a site usage fee to underwrite the cleanup expense
5 Using lessons learned to improve on your success story and provide a model to follow for other "shooting pits".

My bet is that 80% of the problem comes from 20% of the users. As with folks that dump, litter, drop cigarette butts, etc. there may be little hope for change without regulation and enforcement that exceeds their pain threshold.

Best of luck!

bracer
February 4, 2012, 08:30 AM
I have lived in North Dakota, Colorado, Wyoming, and Nebraska. There were slobs that left their shot up trash on privet as well as public land in each state . There was some privet land where I could set up my target stand and measured off 100, 200,and 300 Yds where I drove stakes into the ground. There was a large pile of dirt which was behind my portable target stand that other shooters would put their junk to shoot at. I would haul off the garbage but one day after talking with the land owner about the trash I found that the other people were going on his land without asking. He ended fenceing off the area and put up no shooting signs so I lost a safe place to shoot, thanks to the slobs with guns.

Quoheleth
February 4, 2012, 08:48 AM
I live in a subdivision - not open country. Even here on undeveloped lots, people use someone else's property as their personal dumping grounds. It's sad and disgusting.

I admire you for doing what you're doing and for fighting what seems to be a losing battle. It's a whole american mindset - something for nothing off of the backs of someone else. People get to dump their garbage for no cost/concern and leave it for someone else to deal with.

I do what I can in my own area and it's no where near what you're facing. Good luck to you and God bless you for trying to make a difference!

Q

MyGreenGuns
February 4, 2012, 10:20 AM
My secret little spot has been discovered by slobs. I shot here for a year and the only evidence I left behind was a grassless spot I shot from and a small trail about 80 yds long that ended at a hillside.

More recently the garbage started piling up. Not just from shooters, but everyone. I collected a few hundred pounds in scrap metal, and picked up what I could. The last time I went there, a new gate has been put up. NO SHOOTING signs are everywhere. One "No Dumping" sign.

I hate it when good things are ruined by idiots.

tnxdshooter
February 4, 2012, 10:35 AM
First off, let me be very apologetic in the length of this post.

It has come to my attention on reasonable( yet undisclosable, due to my not wanting to jeopardize anyone) authority that BLM/forestry in Eugene is very seriously considering closing "shooting pits" in my area.

The reason for this is that many of the areas we use as informal shooting sites are also "rock dumps", as in areas they use for crushed rock storage used to maintain logging roads.

Of particular concern to the BLM/forestry is that some of these sites appear to have become contaminated with things such as , but not limited to :

Paint cans
Motor oil containers
Fuel containers
Accelerant containers ( spray paint cans, lithium grease, carb cleaners, etc)

Which have caused "rainbow sheens" in the surface puddles contained at these sites.

They are particularly concerned that using the rock contained at these sites may distribute these contaminants along the roads they are destined to maintain with them.

In addition, many sites have debris such as MATTRESSES AND TELEVISIONS, MANNEQUINS, LARGE BOARDS AND PLYWOOD, AND BROKEN GLASS that make traversing these sites hazardous for the crews that must regularly access them.

In the discussions that spurred me to action, the individual seemed more personally concerned with the noticeable hazardous debris that his crews were having to circumvent, than the "rainbow sheens"...however he has bosses too, and they've noticed.

I was not surprised by these "revelations". Nor should anyone who frequents informal shooting sites.

I was however horrified to learn that some of my new favorite haunts were in jeopardy of being lost, possibly forever.

I could not do nothing.

Over the past several days, I have begun to attempt cleanup at the largest of these rock sites ( my favorite ).

I have attached a few photos snapped by my wife to document my progress....I refused to take pictures....it was/is really bad. I didn't want any showing the very beginning for fear of them floating around to the wrong folks ( small world, ya know) She refuses to go to the end of the site, due to the amount of very dangerous stuff down there. There are literally piles of stuff making that embankment at the end you could fall in to...I have :). Once I'm done, I will attach a few clicks of the pile.

I have come to the realization, however, that this undertaking is more than I can handle alone. Particularly the disposal of debris.

Hidden behind the end of that rock pile is a rapidly growing pile of refuse I can't clear on my own, nor can I obscure any longer. Its contents include, ( but sadly arent limited to) about 150/200 gallon jug sized plastic bottles, 5 mattresses ( very heavy and hard to move when cold and wet, and covered in dunes of broken glass.....especially the king sized one, although at least that one had handles...:fire:..) enough broken plywood to originally build a few outhouses, 3 televisions, the remains of a leagues worth of bowling balls, two truck beds full of assorted cans ( paint, oil, and beer) a mannequin or two, two arm casts ( this was amusing), a pile of clothing about knee high...riddled with holes, a large assortment of shoes and boots, a refrigerator, 2 stoves ( whats left of them) a heap of vacuum cleaner and coffeemaker pieces, and approx 10k shotgun hulls.

I'm wondering what I can do with this pile.

I no longer have the ability or the materials to sufficiently permanently obscure this debris. I have been told in no uncertain terms that the rocks adjacent to this pit ( for obvious reasons) can't be used to bury the material.

I am ashamed that I can't do more, faster. I'm also distressed to learn that there are many more sites subject to review as the spring thaw approaches, I am only one man.

With this said..........

The individual who has brought this to my attention has stated that he himself uses ares such as this pit, and that he has no problem with the activity that occurs there. He does however have a serious problem with the remains, and is running out of ways to explain its ( and many more sites like it) existence and resultant complications. He said in so many words that if folks would take some ownership of these sites, his end would be a lot easier........ and that these sites would draw far less scrutiny from his superiors if they weren't allowed to exist in such a state.

So my questions are :

1. How would you dispose of this pile ?
2. How ( if even possible) would you prevent it from recurring.
3. Do you think its even worthwhile to attempt this ( even though its a little late to NOT attempt it) given the circumstances.

My requests are :

1. If you live in Oregon, and frequent any of the Cougar Road ( near Eugene) and its extensions' shooting sites, please make note of this very true plea and remove as much material as you can.

2. If you shoot at these sites, please refrain from bringing petrochem items to the sites...I can't rake that stuff up !

3. If you happen upon one of these sites and I'm there....please offer a bottle of water, not a middle finger and curses that I'm blocking your weekends' shooting. ( ya, this did actually happen)

4. If you know of any of these sites that I dont ( very likely ) please PM me their location. If you arent or don't want to assist in their cleanup, thats fine- I'll do what I can with the two hands god gave me.

5. If you have any ability to assist in any of this, please PM me.... I would take ANY support in this endeavor. I specifically need a new metal rake....some of my tools are faltering.

And last but not least..........

Please forward this information to any other persons you may know, on any forums, in any gun store, or to anyone that will or would care.... we are in VERY SERIOUS jeopardy of losing the Cougar Road sites and many more.... I don't want that to happen.


1. How would you dispose of the pile? I wouldnt, you are fighting a lost cause and wasting your time because idiots just don't give a damn and it will just happen again.

2. I do not shoot those types of sights cuz it is illegal here.

3. I could care less what you are doing. Just stay out of my way while shooting I don't want to have to worry about accidentally hitting anyone.

4. I do not know of any sights of which you speak. Also God should be capitalized using a lower case g in God is disrepectful.

5. I wouldnt assist cuz it is a waste of time. Period!

I am not trying to be an arse just stating facts that society does not give a damn about the environment and it will just continue to happen which is sad. Believe me I am as pissed about it as you but I dont fight lost causes.

Sent from Droid Incredible on Verizon Wireless

buck460XVR
February 4, 2012, 10:56 AM
My family holds a reunion for a week every year at a resort in the U.P. of Michigan. Brothers and sisters, neices and nephews from all over the country come for a week to show off new babies and spouses. Several years ago I asked the resort owner if there was a public range close by to shoot handguns, and was given directions to a sandpit where according to the owner was where "everyone shoots, including vacationing cops from Chicago with fully automatic weapons". Went there and did not see anything resembling a public range only a dump site. Did not look like a safe spot to shoot, much less a legal place to shoot. Next year I contacted the local Chamber of Commerce. I was directed to the same spot. Since it was on National Forest property, I stopped at the local ranger's office and asked to make sure I'd be legal. The lady ranger told me legal or not, that everyone shot there, so I'd PROBABLY be fine. At my insistence, she then called the local sheriff's dept. and asked and was told that's where the county officers practiced. I went back and looked again with intentions of shooting and again was embarrassed as a shooter at the mess there. Car hoods, oil barrels, tin cans and broken bottles, all shot to pieces and left. Cardboard and plywood in various shapes and sizes stapled/nailed to trees and lying on the ground.....everywhere. Again, it looked more like a town dump than a formal shooting range. I did not wish to shoot there, much less bring family out there for a fun afternoon. It was hard to believe the only legitimate place to shoot for 40 miles around looked like this.....and not only was it regular slobs makin' the mess, but supposedly legitimate LEOs.

Sooooooo, long story short, I have yet to fire a shot in that pigsty, but I have picked up a coupla hundred dollars worth of scrap brass over the last few years from there. It's a good place to go in the middle of the day when the fish aren't bitin' and the kids are using the boat for tubin'. I assume one of these years there will be a "No Shooting" sign posted and a chain across the road, thanks to the folks that shoot there.

xfyrfiter
February 4, 2012, 01:42 PM
Use the range if available, BLM land and Forest Service land belongs to all of us, and if not taken care of, the priviledge to use, will be taken away, and pretty soon there will be no place to shoot, legally or otherwise.

FuzzyBunny
February 4, 2012, 01:58 PM
Put up signs that say
All vehicles entering and leaving are photographed.
Littering is prosecuted to the maximum.

blarby
February 4, 2012, 02:07 PM
*takes notes*

:D

Tinpig
February 4, 2012, 02:25 PM
Thanks for trying, blarby.

http://maryjuliaoliver.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/pogo2.jpg

Tinpig

armoredman
February 4, 2012, 03:30 PM
tnxdshooter thank you for the good words and helpful attitude!

We had the same problem at a shooting area on the far north west side of Tucson, the "dump", and when Marana annexed that area this small area was left in the county so people could shoot there, as it was related to me. It was a small depression in the desert about a hundred yards in a circle that made for very safe shooting from the rim down into this little valley. People organized cleanups every year, bulldozed firing positions, and it still got closed by people who don't give a rocks rear end about anyone else but themselves. The wildest haulaway from a few wildcat ranges were the burned out stolen cars.
If I was up there, amigo, I'd give you and hand hauling garbage, because that's how you turn it around, one pair of hands at a time.
What's sad is the nicely city maintained shooting range I go to, the garbage cans are chained down to prevent the from being used as targets.

wannabeagunsmith
February 4, 2012, 03:49 PM
This same exact thing happend to my favorite shooting spot, which was walking distance from my house, and it is now closed to all shooting.

billdeserthills
February 4, 2012, 04:05 PM
My little shooting spot had a similar problem, and the state had already temporarily closed down the area the year prior. Some of us gun lovers formed ourselves into a group. The group dines together (we call it Open Carry Dinner we eat at a buffet usually) & gets together to shoot from time to time. Last year about 20 of us got together along with the organizer (who had a truck & trailer) we all pitched in & spent a few hours filling up trash bags. The whole mess was taken to the dump & our area has remained pretty clean since, give or take the occaisional shot up trash. It is really worth the trouble to organize, and we did have some fun cleaning, as we were all together & that made it easy!

heron
February 4, 2012, 04:14 PM
Maybe you could get a local scout troop to help. If they don't have a marksmanship program yet, maybe you could offer to help organize one in repayment.

I admire your care and effort. You're pushing a boulder uphill, though. Best of luck to you.

blarby
February 4, 2012, 04:20 PM
Thanks for all the encouragement !

I'm not going to be able to get out there again until monday at the earliest. Hopefully with the super bowl goin on I won't have to re-do too much !

Gun Geezer
February 4, 2012, 07:42 PM
Blarby: good on you.

Thanks.

Route666
February 4, 2012, 08:44 PM
1. How would you dispose of the pile? I wouldnt, you are fighting a lost cause and wasting your time because idiots just don't give a damn and it will just happen again.

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

If you want your country to be clean and have these shooting areas then YOU have to work at making it that way. The slobs are working at making it THEIR way. You can't just sit back and expect a country full of people who aren't you to work at making the country you want.

Gordon_Freeman
February 4, 2012, 09:00 PM
I think people do these kinds of things because there is no harsh punishment for it. People who dump trash like that should be charged with felonies and other harsh consequences. Maybe a good punishment would be the confiscation of the vehicles they used to bring the trash in. The government then could sell the vehicles to pay for enforcement.

hermannr
February 4, 2012, 10:04 PM
Blarby!

It may be possible to work something out with forestry/blm/and the county so you at least do not have to pay dump fees.

If you can get your local club to help with a work day, it might even be easier to get your dump fees covered that way. I've done it in WA. When you are dumping by the ton it can get expensive.

talldragon
February 4, 2012, 10:47 PM
Blarby,
More power to you :cool: .

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" (not sure who said this) or something like that.

Wish more shooters could step-up and do the same at local shooting areas..:rolleyes:.

Tomcat47
February 5, 2012, 12:00 AM
Blarby... Hats off to you! I only wish I was not on East Coast and I would help!

Route666.... Amen!
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

tnxdshooter .... I understand your complacency, but no good cause should ever become a lost cause! And really?? little "g" :scrutiny:

But that is how a cause gets lost, when we are more concerned over a spelling error than getting to work at a difficult cause!

And Blarby...back a few years ago we had a similar place to go shooting, and the same thing happened to it....the county put up gates and locked us out!

We went to them, done some clean up and convinced them that through a local gun club we were able to get keys to gate and as a club we policed behavior. It worked pretty well.

You may be able to put up some signage laying out some rules and posting fines for leaving that type garbage, with some signage stating this area under surveilance. In todays world they would be worried about cameras. You could also put up some deer cameras to catch some of the ones that are trashing it up for everyone else.

I feel certain BLM would be willing to right some citations for revenue if they caught the guilty on camera! And word would travel fast in the area, that fines are stiff if you get caught trashing the place, and that it is being watched heavily!

Anyway, good luck with your cause. Its a good one!

JTHunter
February 5, 2012, 12:36 AM
In all liklihood, it isn't "fellow shooters" doing the dumping, just cheap, stupid, and lazy townies that don't want to pay the extra haulage fees for "large items".

Good luck on the cleanup!

788Ham
February 5, 2012, 12:56 AM
There is/was a place SO of Denver, in a national forest, that everyone used as a "shooting spot". It had been used for several years just to plink and shoot a few rounds. THEN the slobs moved in, as has been said earlier, TV's, mattresses, logs cut up, trees cut down, just a hog stye! The forest service closed the place down, nobody can use the place now. I believe the state has now gotten involved, lots of talk has been thrown at it, but nothing positive as yet, other than our tax dollars spent for nothing. Its all kind'a like shoveling manure against the tide, nothing will probably be done about it, especially hauling the trash out of the national forest!

Hardtarget
February 5, 2012, 02:14 AM
We have about 15 acres out far enough to shoot on safely. One guy had permisson to shoot. He moved to another state and left forty (or more) of the small propane canisters for me to haul off. Yea...I was kind of ticked off to say the least. If he comes back he will not have that priviledge again.

Mark

Hoppes Love Potion
February 5, 2012, 02:22 AM
What they should do is allow shooting at the actual town dump. Problem solved.

BCRider
February 5, 2012, 02:37 AM
I only browsed through a few posts but enough to be totally saddened by how lazy and self centered people are these days.

To those that are trying to make a difference and posted such I comend you. It's a thankless job and there are too few of you.

Sadly the folks that make the mess at these sites would not read this thread once they know what it's about.

Hell, it's hard enough to get these same people to clean up after themselves at club ranges where they KNOW they need to leave it at least as nice as they found it.

That Pooh cartoon is just a little too realistic .......

Ignition Override
February 5, 2012, 03:04 AM
We know that it is only one symptom of a much worse problem. You should see the litter around roads in the outer Memphis-area suburbs.
This is at the end of a Pink Floyd song: "Good manners (don't) cost nothing": "Dark Side of the Moon".

Many Americans really don't like clean, attractive road landscape which is seen by everybody. Maybe they've never experienced clean landscapes, and it looks normal. Conditioning?
At least the vast majority of west (and maybe east) Europeans appreciate theirs. You can easily imagine how parts of it might have looked in ancient and medieval times. There is at least one hiking trail between any pair of villages, with one or two cars parked at the trail heads, opening onto clean grass between dark clusters of tall fir trees.

Why do so many Americans have no pride, or they don't have the patience, combined with the typically very self-centered American (I want...now) attitude? Maybe our huge country is just taken for granted by some.

Certaindeaf
February 5, 2012, 04:12 AM
1. How would you dispose of the pile? I wouldnt, you are fighting a lost cause and wasting your time because idiots just don't give a damn and it will just happen again.

2. I do not shoot those types of sights cuz it is illegal here.

3. I could care less what you are doing. Just stay out of my way while shooting I don't want to have to worry about accidentally hitting anyone.

4. I do not know of any sights of which you speak. Also God should be capitalized using a lower case g in God is disrepectful.

5. I wouldnt assist cuz it is a waste of time. Period!

I am not trying to be an arse just stating facts that society does not give a damn about the environment and it will just continue to happen which is sad. Believe me I am as pissed about it as you but I dont fight lost causes.

Sent from Droid Incredible on Verizon Wireless
With that attitude, I must ask and or wonder do you even bother to vote?

blarby
February 5, 2012, 12:41 PM
Unf, as helpful as they would be, I don't think I'd feel comfortable bringing scouts out to that area currently....not for cleanup anyway.

There really is a lot of broken glass and sharp/rusty metal out there at the target end of things.

I'm going to have to investigate finding a few helpful souls with some pickups and gloves I believe.

Another option I've received has been a burn pile. This might not work for the metal, but given the large clearing space, anyone else want to chime in on the feasibility of that ?

Tomcat47
February 5, 2012, 12:51 PM
Maybe the BLM or county would lend some help via a Track hoe to get it all up in managable piles....metal ( which can produce income for the cause ) Then what could be burnt - then what needs to go to landfill. Even if BLM or county would not have (provide -they do have it) this resource, you may find a local that is in the excavation business willing to help.

I think with some effort the county and BLM would appreciate your efforts and possibly help since really your tax dollars pay there wages.

News! That would be my next step! Reporters love garbage in many various forms, but I feel they would be eager to throw that on TV .... People are Trashing our land! and there are citizens who care and the county officials will not miss a PR campaign for sure!

And as far as Scouts... when I was Asst. Scout Master... we would have done this type project! We would have just give them all the safety equipment to do the work (gloves, boots, etc.) and set them in teams with adult instruction and supervision. Do not under estimate them boys, they are more responsible and mature than most boys there age. They want to make a difference in the world that is why they are scouts.

CONNEX 3300
February 5, 2012, 01:30 PM
If I lived withing 300 miles of you I would be glad to help. But I am much farther than that so all I can say is Thank You for doing what you can. Hopefully some or most of that trash is just dumped and not brought by shooters.

Here is an idea I don't think anyone has yet mentioned.

Could you talk to a game warden or deputy sherriff (if they have authority there) or any other willing law enforcement official and see if maybe he would stakeout that area for a couple of weekends? If it is a high frequency dump area it wouldn't take too long for some yahoos to swing by with their trash. He should impose the strongest penalty possible. (probably a heavy fine.) I doubt a judge would show much mercy.

If two or three people had the book thrown at them for dumping, I am pretty sure that word would get around fast.

Certaindeaf
February 5, 2012, 01:40 PM
.News! That would be my next step! Reporters love garbage in many various forms, but I feel they would be eager to throw that on TV .... People are Trashing our land! and there are citizens who care and the county officials will not miss a PR campaign for sure!.
Fairly good idea. The "news" is a powerful force multiplier. However, perhaps it's just me, but my fear would be that given this/certain publicity, an easy target might be outlined to hamstringers.. we know of deeds done and things that are capable by a certain portion of the political spectrum. I can easily see essentially "anarchists"/whatever doing a setup, complete with film footage etc of what they "found".

Blarby, good for you.. I'm up here north but perhaps we'll talk. Please keep up the good work.

DavidMS
February 5, 2012, 07:16 PM
If only we had that sort or problem in the DC area!

I like the idea of organizing, talking to gun store owners, finding local/state forums to publicize it. When you have cleaned it up, contact the local media for a feel good story. As for monitoring I wonder if there is a local hackspace (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackerspace) that could be contacted about some homebrew surveillance gear that phones home via a wireless card. Just a tip, don't put the under surveillance sign in/near the site, locate it back a ways on the road, perhaps by the turn off for the shooting site that the area is being monitored by the forest service for illegal dumping.

As for why people do this sort of thing, its because we have a society where there is a decline in a sense of duty so instead people write rules (some rules, like don't dump trash in national forests are necessary even with a strong sense of duty in the general populace).

monet61
February 5, 2012, 08:45 PM
Blarby;
You have my utmost respect. Most people just leave trash, not remove it. We just had one of the more popular areas shut down for the very same reason. If people would only pack out their own trash and a handful of someone elses, we wouldn't have these problems.

TNboy
February 6, 2012, 12:40 AM
TNXDSHOOTER, you are a disgrace to Tennessee and gun owners in general. It is obvious that you are self centered, only worried about yourself, and are in general part of the problem and not the solution.

Blarby, good on you for your efforts. If you can manage to get it cleaned up it will get better as people will be less likely to dump trash in a clean area as they would one that is already littered up.

blarby
February 6, 2012, 02:03 PM
Allrighty.

Two steps frward, one step back....sort of.

Was a able to meet a local scrapper at the spot this morning and get rid of the 'eavy metal.

+1 !

Unfortunately, it was clear as crystal last night in eugene..... and everything froze solid. Gonna have to wait for a little warmer morning to remove anything else from the frozen broken rock !

Certaindeaf
February 6, 2012, 02:40 PM
Go blarby, go!

blarby
February 6, 2012, 04:26 PM
As a small side note.....

Some of your suggestions are leading to useful progress !

I am loathe to involve the media in any event..... Even here in PRO oregon, I do not want this mess advertised in our local media. I can't believe that any possible positive would outweigh any possible negative.

There are a lot of spots like this, I am assuming.

Yes it is a problem in need of remedy.

No, I am not in favor of very publicly airing our "dirty laundry" in an attempt to generate support or sympathy.

This isn't a problem that's going to go away overnight, I know that.

It IS however, a problem which is user- created. Most of the non-users would appreciate any additional fodder we as "us" provide to them freely.

I'm not in the process of giving them that fodder....i'm currently in the business of removing it..as expediently and as quietly as possible.

tekarra
February 7, 2012, 09:53 PM
At a place where I used to shoot years ago, near the end of the day, one of the crusty old timers would call a cease fire and order everyone to clean up. Don't recall anyone every dissenting. Probably would have been told not to come back.

blarby
February 10, 2012, 08:50 PM
Some updates !

I was able to find a second site to address. Its a work in progress !

At site one, someone was nice enough to shoot a tree down onto the rock pile.

Thanks guys, that really helps. Not only was it a live tree, but now you've made it harder for the machines, not just the people, to access what we're trying to keep access to :cuss:

Anyway,

I've included some more pics detailing the work left to be done at site one on the target end, and the actual progress on the " spent casings" and " unshot beer container" end.

I will note that there has been a heap *snicker* of progress at the target end of site one, even though it doesn't look it.

Someone was kind enough to remove the enormous pile of shotgun hulls :D along with most of the bowling pin fragments. ( :scrutiny: ) was my first response on that last one, but I'm not about to whizz on aid unlooked for.

Small side note : For those of you who might have recognized it by now, and noticed something.....yes the tree probably just threw the herring off the actual site location.....can't prevent that one, and considered that before posting the tree information.....in the end I figured It was worth the pics in the name of documentation pertaining to the progress and its setbacks

I've also presented a representative picture of the oil sheens pervasive to this site. They are a little tricky to photograph correctly with my camera and the magnificent foglighting at the site today, but that one came out the clearest.

Since my little silver bullet showed up in the site pic, I figured I'd show you what kinda cargo space I'm working with. You can feel free to take the car comments elsewhere ! My one throw in that pot is this : that car has gotten in and out of some places that would make lesser vehicles weep. Front wheel drive and 21st century antislip, anti-sway, and anti-roll technologies combined with 1500lbs of batteries are AMAZING.... and I was raised a pickup guy by choice. :evil:

blarby
February 10, 2012, 08:51 PM
ahh, more pics.

These are the site one pics mentioned above.

blarby
February 10, 2012, 08:53 PM
Site two pics mentioned above. This is actually a really nice long range site, and the way fog hangs here is mesmerizing. I need a better camera.

blarby
February 10, 2012, 08:54 PM
Ahh, the bullet :

winewine211
February 10, 2012, 10:48 PM
wow, looks cool.

Route666
February 11, 2012, 01:35 AM
Good work blarby! It does look like a nice place, I love cool (temperature-wise) forest areas.

You may find it worthwhile to erect a sign (if you can), stating who you are (just someone who shoots there), what you have done (cleaned it up) and why (so they don't shut it down, and the reason they would do that) and ask to take more rubbish than you bring in so they can return next time and be able to use it. If by reading the sign someone removes the equivalent in rubbish / time that it took you to make the sign, it would be worthwhile. - I just read about the monitoring for illegal dumping, that would probably be more effective.

buck460XVR
February 11, 2012, 01:05 PM
You may find it worthwhile to erect a sign (if you can), stating who you are (just someone who shoots there), what you have done (cleaned it up) and why (so they don't shut it down, and the reason they would do that) and ask to take more rubbish than you bring in so they can return next time and be able to use it.

I'm guessin' it would just be another target for the dirtballs.:banghead: Littering and dumping trash on public land is already illegal and these dirtballs know it. Part of their thrill besides shootin' holes in it is leavin' it lay. Kinda like a dog markin' his territory.

You've done good Blarby. If everyone that shoots was as responsible as you, there'd be no messes to clean up.

Certaindeaf
February 11, 2012, 01:52 PM
A plastic enveloped (it rains here) paper sign thumbtacked to a tree would serve well. Very cheap and replaceable. Yea, for many, anything is bullet fodder. This thread bears that out. I'd venture that the benefit might outweigh the cost.
Speaking of cost, maybe you should set up a paypal deal, Blarby. Never know.

blarby
February 12, 2012, 02:27 AM
I'm debating signage as we speak :)

Route666
February 12, 2012, 05:17 AM
I'm guessin' it would just be another target for the dirtballs. Littering and dumping trash on public land is already illegal and these dirtballs know it. Part of their thrill besides shootin' holes in it is leavin' it lay. Kinda like a dog markin' his territory.

You've done good Blarby. If everyone that shoots was as responsible as you, there'd be no messes to clean up.

BUCK460VXR, while I agree with that almost 100%, there may just be someone else thoughtful enough for it to have a positive effect. After all, blarby is one of the people who goes there, and he's trying to clean it up.

blarby
February 16, 2012, 08:33 PM
Well, guess its a little good intention anyway.

As my awesome luck would have it, looks like the wife and I are movin again.

Fed family, transfers a go-go are the way of the world for us.

Not leaving oregon, but a two-hour trek to this shooting spot really isn't in the cards if we end up where we think we are.

At the very least, I certainly left it better than I found it.

Lifes a tricky one like that sometimes, just when you think yer situated....

Thanks everyone for the show of support and the good ideas, maybe someone else will pick up the yoke on this'n.

Maybe it'll push someone to do the same in their own community, without the pressure !

I certainly aim to find spots that need help in my new environs, thats for sure.

Larry Ashcraft
February 16, 2012, 08:59 PM
Closed at OP's request.

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