Shoulder Fired Howitzer???


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Googleplex
February 4, 2012, 12:32 AM
Howdy. I just a got a "shoulder fired howitzer", the Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in .45-70. In order to get this beauty/beast in shooting order, I need to get new sights. I'm getting the XS ghost ring system with the rail for a scout scope. The rifle's previous owner put a limbsavor pad on, new (and very crisp) trigger, and permanently deactivated the cross-bolt safety. Ported. Made in '08. Smooth action. So far, I think I got a winner.
I'll post pics when the sight comes in and is installed.:cool:

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Googleplex
February 4, 2012, 11:41 AM
What does everyone think of the XS sights?

Sam1911
February 4, 2012, 11:47 AM
I really like them...except. Except that I can't adjust those I installed on my 336 far enough to bring the POI down to POA. Front sight needs to be taller.

The mount is pretty fantastic, though I've yet to find the right scope for it.

Googleplex
February 4, 2012, 11:58 AM
That's interesting. I wonder if the 1895 ones are taller?

The mount looked it would sit pretty low on the gun, which is good because the natural cheek position on the '95G is pretty low to meet the irons. Rails on a levergun usually look ungainly, but these ones look like they'll be different. How does it look on your 336?

jeepnik
February 4, 2012, 12:17 PM
First change I made to my GS was XS ghost ring sights. They are excellent. The above mentioned lack of adjustment to correct POA/POI is the first I've heard, and I frequent most of the Levergun related forums.

I've shot everything from black powder "cowboy" loads to fire breathing Garrett and Buffalo Bore ammo, and can say that those sights, and the Lever Scout picatinny rail are so far impervious to the forces of recoil.

I'm going to give two pieces of advice. First, when you mount anything to the receiver, make sure the new screws do not go completely thru the top of the receiver and cause the bolt to bind. Yes, the holes are drilled thru, and yes, I learned this one the hard way.

Second. Loctite the screws. But, and this is extremely important, DO NOT USE RED LOCTITE. I've heard way too many stories of folks using the red loctite and latter having on heck of a time removing the loctited screws. I seem to remember that my sights came with a small tube of red loctite. Fortunately, I had already learned this lesson from other's experience.

theicemanmpls
February 4, 2012, 12:34 PM
I have the 1895. I swear by in for whitetails in the woods. How did you deactivate that worthless cross bolt safety?

The guide gun, is that ported? Might be a little hard on the ears while hunting?
I love the size of the guide gun.

For a scope, I found a "scout mount". This involves removing the rear sight, and installing the mount using the sights holes. I installed a FX-II 2.5x28mm IER Scout Scope from Leupold.

I have used 325 gr FTX LEVER evolution, but prefer to roll my own, due to cost.

What good is a monster like this unless you can play with it?

The one doe I shot with it, was DRT!

The recoil is there, but my mosin m44 feels like it kicks lots more.

These lever actions are great woods rifles!

Googleplex
February 4, 2012, 12:34 PM
What loctite formula do you recommend?

hogshead
February 4, 2012, 12:37 PM
I love the xs sights. I think the blue loctite is easier to get loose.

dprice3844444
February 4, 2012, 12:42 PM
you need to have the safety functioning.should you have an accidental discharge resulting in injury,you might be held criminally,as well as civilly negligent.

Googleplex
February 4, 2012, 12:42 PM
I have the 1895. I swear by in for whitetails in the woods. How did you deactivate that worthless cross bolt safety?

The guide gun, is that ported? Might be a little hard on the ears while hunting?
I love the size of the guide gun.

For a scope, I found a "scout mount". This involves removing the rear sight, and installing the mount using the sights holes. I installed a FX-II 2.5x28mm IER Scout Scope from Leupold.

I have used 325 gr FTX LEVER evolution, but prefer to roll my own, due to cost.

What good is a monster like this unless you can play with it?

The one doe I shot with it, was DRT!

The recoil is there, but my mosin m44 feels like it kicks lots more.

These lever actions are great woods rifles!

The cross-bolt safety was deactivated by the previous owner, but it looks like he pushed it to off, cut off the protruding end, and used some kind of screw to finish the job. I'll post a pic when I get the chance, but it looks rather permanent, which is perfectly fine by me. Mine is ported. I haven't been able to shoot it yet, but when I do I will most DEFINATELY be wearing plugs or more substantial protection. I use plugs while hunting, so I doubt it will bother me that much in the feild. How are liking that Leupold? I would bet the M44 does more immediate punch than the .45-70. Everything I ever hear is the .45-70 is all push.

MichaelB
February 4, 2012, 12:46 PM
There is a set screw in the action that will freeze the cross-bolt safety in the OFF position. Pull the stock to find the screw. OR one can use rubber O rings as a temporary measure. ME? I set the screw to hold it in the off position, and installed a hammer extension to hook my thumb over.

Googleplex
February 4, 2012, 12:52 PM
you need to have the safety functioning.should you have an accidental discharge resulting in injury,you might be held criminally,as well as civilly negligent.

I still have a functioning safety in the half-cock of the hammer. Safeties really aren't to be completely trusted in any form, so the 10 commandments of firearm safety come into play regardless. As long you keep that muzzle in a safe direction and the finger off the trigger, an accidental discharge shouldn't happen, or at the very least result in any injury or legal action. And when it comes to grizz, it's safer not to have have the easy to accidentaly engage cross-bolt safety. The last thing you wanna do is pull the trigger on a P-O'ed Yogie and hear *click*.:uhoh:

Sam1911
February 4, 2012, 12:53 PM
How does it look on your 336?
Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but it looks good enough to me. I rather prefer the traditional look, but in this case, I like the lever scout mount better than the receiver-top mount that is more common.

Googleplex
February 4, 2012, 12:53 PM
I love the xs sights. I think the blue loctite is easier to get loose.

Blue loctite. Gotcha :)

Sam1911
February 4, 2012, 12:55 PM
In the event of injuring someone, you WILL be civilly liable, and possibly criminally liable as well. Whether or not the safety was disabled is one of those internet legend sorts of concerns. If you believe it, then keep the safety. If you don't -- just be no less careful than you would normally, when dealing with lethal weapons.

jeepnik
February 4, 2012, 12:56 PM
There are several "kits" to remove the safety. Most end up looking like either a pin or screw. I haven't read or heard of anyone being considered liable for having a deactivated safety on a levergun, yet.

As to having to remove the rear sight to mount the Lever Scout rail, yes, the rear dovetailed semi buckhorn must be removed. This is why most folks add something like the XS ghost ring rear. Oh, and you can get blanks to fill in the dovetail slot left by the removed rear sight.

There was also a mention, previously of an imporved trigger. Wild West Guns makes the "Happy Trigger" that is basically a drop in unit that vastly improves the trigger pull. As long as you have it apart, I'd suggest sticking in one of there "Bear Proof Ejectors".

On my GS you can see the rear sight, and Lever Scout mount. This is an older shot that doesn't show the safety replacement. I think I had replaced the trigger with the WWG unit by then.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Jeepnik/GUNS/MarlinSlingButtCuff.jpg

Googleplex
February 4, 2012, 12:56 PM
Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but it looks good enough to me. I rather prefer the traditional look, but in this case, I like the lever scout mount better than the receiver-top mount that is more common.

I like the traditional look myself, but I do believe that something like this needs maximum practicallity. I looked at the rail system on google and youtube, and it looks just fine on a 336, so I imagine it will look just fine on my guide gun.:cool:

Googleplex
February 4, 2012, 01:01 PM
Jeepnik, I do believe the rail system looks good on that gun. As for the trigger, I don't know what's in it, but it's good. Probably a wildwest, the previous owner looks like he knew his stuff, with deactivating the safety in all. The limbsavor is a nice touch, as well.

Float Pilot
February 4, 2012, 04:42 PM
Hmm, if your 45-70 is a Howitzer, I wonder what that makes my 50-90 Sharps???

I use 620 grain hard cast.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=158347&stc=1&d=1328388074

theicemanmpls
February 4, 2012, 07:30 PM
In the event of injuring someone, you WILL be civilly liable, and possibly criminally liable as well. Whether or not the safety was disabled is one of those internet legend sorts of concerns. If you believe it, then keep the safety. If you don't -- just be no less careful than you would normally, when dealing with lethal weapons.
Sam,
Are you an attorney?

IMHO, the silly internal trigger locks on pistols, and the cross bolt safety on the firearm in question were installed at the factory to protect the manufacturer from blood sucking, bottom feeding trial lawyers.

Does anyone have statistical information on how many accidents have been prevented?

I grew up using a H&R .410 shot gun. The hammer is the safety.
God help me if I cocked said hammer if I didn't have a shot at a rooster.
Gun safety was enforced with a backhand or Dads boot. Not a good way to teach, but I learned. I still remember crossing a fence without unloading........OUCH.

A few years ago I missed a nice shot at a buck because I thought I should forget my training, and become "Mr. Safety", using the cross bolt, as well as the hammer.

theicemanmpls
February 4, 2012, 07:38 PM
The cross-bolt safety was deactivated by the previous owner, but it looks like he pushed it to off, cut off the protruding end, and used some kind of screw to finish the job. I'll post a pic when I get the chance, but it looks rather permanent, which is perfectly fine by me. Mine is ported. I haven't been able to shoot it yet, but when I do I will most DEFINATELY be wearing plugs or more substantial protection. I use plugs while hunting, so I doubt it will bother me that much in the feild. How are liking that Leupold? I would bet the M44 does more immediate punch than the .45-70. Everything I ever hear is the .45-70 is all push.
Googleplex,
For game "out far" the 2.5 power just don't cut it on my older eyes. For the Minnesota/Wisconsin north woods, there is, IMO, nothing better. Of course one needs to remember this is a 45/70 and should not be used for "out far" game. I know I should find a 300 yard range, and use this fine rifle tool as a howitzer. It was used as such back in the day, when men were men, and sheep were skittish.

Sam1911
February 4, 2012, 07:43 PM
Sam,
Are you an attorney?Thank heaven, no. ;)

IMHO, the silly internal trigger locks on pistols, and the cross bolt safety on the firearm in question were installed at the factory to protect the manufacturer from blood sucking, bottom feeding trial lawyers.Maybe, somewhat. But remember, there's lots of gun folks in the world, and not all of them are strict traditionalists who know things the same way "we" know them. There certainly are plenty of folks who (maybe don't know better...maybe they do) say, "Well, that's nice, they made that old design a little safer!"

I've certainly spoken with folks who do lock the ILS systems on their handguns when they put them away. They've never even considered that the manufacturer is satan's bride for making the gun with one.

Yeah, there are some lawyers out there who have gotten a big check out of suing a manufacturer for not installing some newfangled safety device that arguably would have prevented some odd death or injury. I don't know of any that have actually happened -- for real -- in the firearms industry. (Now in the auto industry? Oh yeah!)

There is one famous example of a company making a deal with the devil (government) over ILS systems -- but remember that the company in charge there was in the business of making such systems. So you have a bit of a chicken-and-egg question in that case.

I think with most manufacturers it's rather a case of keeping up with the other manufacturers and offering the public a new feature that some will really appreciate and others could (in theory) just ignore if they don't care for it. Plus, some states have or have toyed with the idea of laws requiring such devices, so if they want to sell guns there, they'd better have something that complies.

Sweden
February 4, 2012, 09:17 PM
SAM:
I really like them...except. Except that I can't adjust those I installed on my 336 far enough to bring the POI down to POA. Front sight needs to be taller.

I had the same problem with a couple lever guns. Call the folks at XS with solid information (i.e. POI is 9" above POA at 75 yards) They cut me 4 custom front sights, shipped them to me for free, and included return postage for the first sight. They were great to deal with.

Sam1911
February 4, 2012, 10:18 PM
Sweden, that is great news! I've been meaning to get in touch with them about it and see if they wouldn't do something like that.

Thanks!

Dr T
February 4, 2012, 11:55 PM
I must be one of the very few that actually like the cross bolt safety on my lever guns. It has something to do with an accidental discharge from an old M 94 that nearly took a friend away permanently some 40+ years ago...He got off with singed eyebrows and was a bit hard of hearing for a while. Roof of his dad's pickup had a very interesting hole in it.

tds

NG VI
February 5, 2012, 12:39 AM
Shoulder-fired howitzer?

You have to load the projectile and propellant separately?

Googleplex
February 5, 2012, 04:39 PM
Hmm, if your 45-70 is a Howitzer, I wonder what that makes my 50-90 Sharps???


A WMD. Simply put.:D

Googleplex,
For game "out far" the 2.5 power just don't cut it on my older eyes. For the Minnesota/Wisconsin north woods, there is, IMO, nothing better. Of course one needs to remember this is a 45/70 and should not be used for "out far" game. I know I should find a 300 yard range, and use this fine rifle tool as a howitzer. It was used as such back in the day, when men were men, and sheep were skittish.

I suppose that's where the 32" sight radius came in handy, eh?:) If leupold made a 1.5-5 IER scout style, that would be perfect. The longest distance I really see myself using it at in the near future is 100 yards. Maybe 200 at the most should I take it anywhere not local. It oughta drop anything in Texas in its tracks. :cool:

Shoulder-fired howitzer?

You have to load the projectile and propellant separately?

Only Winchester.:rolleyes:

Sweden
February 7, 2012, 07:05 PM
SAM:
Thanks!

I remember the "now what" feeling and was glad I could help. Best of luck!

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