Ohio CCW - particulars?


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Bill Hook
February 9, 2004, 02:30 PM
I realize that this hasn't been signed (I thought not) and it will take 90 days to enact, but does anyone have an idea of costs involved and whether you can get your permit from a different county than your residence? I need to pass on some info.

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Lennyjoe
February 9, 2004, 06:09 PM
I havent seen anything as far as price goes.

I have been keeping an eye out at Ohioans For Concealed Carry website.

www.ofcc.net

SemperFi83
February 9, 2004, 06:33 PM
Law says "Up to $45" fee for the license itself, but if you have been an Ohio resident for less than 5 years, they can also charge you for the cost of the federal background check.

braindead0
February 15, 2004, 02:05 PM
See my post on:
other thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64905&perpage=25&highlight=Ohio%20CCW&pagenumber=2)

And always bear in mind, the only particulars that matter are the law and it's possibly interpretation by the courts. From what I can tell our Attorney General is trying to really mess things up by publishing patently incorrect information. Luckily, the 'rules' the AG writes must be reviewed by the Joint Committee on Agency Rule Review and their job is to make sure the rules fit with the law. Hopefully they'll do their job correctly and this'll get straightened out.

You also might be looking at August until the Sheriffs actually have the ability to issue permits.

TheBluesMan
February 15, 2004, 03:43 PM
One point that hasn't been addressed yet - You can apply for a permit in your county of residence or in any adjacent county.

braindead0
February 15, 2004, 05:06 PM
Which will be very handy for many people who has idiot Sheriffs (Summit county for example).

Bill Hook
February 15, 2004, 06:21 PM
I'm thinking Hamilton Co., so Clermont is the county that was of interest here.

zahc
February 15, 2004, 07:42 PM
Which will be very handy for many people who has idiot Sheriffs (Summit county for example).

Hey I just got back from playing paintball up there in Canton.

TheBluesMan
February 15, 2004, 09:13 PM
Canton is in Stark county, zahc. Akron is in Summit. I wouldn't go to Summit either, braindead0.

Here's a link to the Ohio Attorney General's FAQ about this law: http://www.ohiofirearmstraining.com/Training.html

Here's the Ohio Attorney General's synopsis of the law:Ohio Attorney General's "Concealed Carry Law Overview"
Ohio Concealed Handgun License (CHL) Guide



Citizen Application Process (License good for 4 years)

1. The applicant will submit an application to the sheriff of their county of residence or an adjacent county.

2. Applicant will pay a non-refundable permit fee of $45, unless:


A. Retired peace officer
B. Retired military with military police experience
C. Retired federal law enforcement officer
3. Must submit a color photo taken within the last 30 days

4. Must submit proof of training:


A. NRA safety course; or
B. Other firearms safety course which complies with all of the following:


i. Open to the general public
ii. Instructors certified by NRA, OPOTC (Firearms or Requal) or a governmental official of another state
iii. Sponsored by a law enforcement agency, community college, firearms training school, or other type of public or private entity
iv. Class consists of 12 hours of training


1. 10 hours of classroom covering:

a. safe handling and proper storage of the weapon
b. demonstrate and explain safe handling of ammo
c. demonstrate knowledge, skills and attitude to shoot a handgun safely; and
d. weapons handling
2. 2 hours range time and live fire
3. Must pass competency exam which includes:

a. written section - name and explain rules; and
b. physical demonstration of competence in shooting and safe handling
License Renewal
1. License must be renewed every 4 years
2. Licensee must carry permit and valid I.D. in order to carry concealed
3. After expiration date, permit is good for 30 days
4. Licensee must notify Sheriff within 45 days of change of address
5. If training class has been taken within the last 6 years, Licensee must only take and pass a written competency test given by any qualified provider in order to renew permit

Revocation and/ or suspension
1. Licensee may be suspended or revoked for any of the following:

A. Charged with Having Weapons While Intoxicated
B. Charged with a:

i. Felony
ii. Drug violation
iii. Misdemeanor offence of violence
iv. Negligent assault
v. Falsification of a Concealed Carry Permit
C. Issuance of a Temporary Protection Order against the licensee


Curriculum/ Course of Fire
- Competency is to be determined by the course instructor

Retired Police Officers
- Fee is waived if retired peace officer or retired federal law enforcement
- Training is waived if peace officer has been retired 6 years or less

braindead0
February 16, 2004, 07:13 AM
Well, at least the AG's overview is more accurate than their QA on the subject...which is chock full of misinformation and outright lies.

foghornl
February 16, 2004, 10:02 AM
Lake County, Ohio Sheriff Daniel Dunlap isn't too gun-friendly, either. Don't have a direct link to the article, but in Sunday's (2-15-04) Cleveland Plain Dealer news rag, [Directly quoting article from Plain Dealer] 'It is going to be like Dodge City out there,' said Lake County Sheriff Daniel Dunlap. 'I don't see how we are becoming a more civilized society by doing this.' "

{also saw that report in today's newslinks (2-16-04) on Angel Shamaya's KeepAndBearArms.com website.}

Well, here is a news flash for ya, Sheriff Dunlap. I don't see how you are ever going to get another vote from me.

Soon, we will be calling you FORMER Lake County Sheriff Dunlap.

I have downloaded the Adobe pdf document (new CCW law) from the Ohioans for COncealed Carry website, but I have struggeld in vain to get through all 100+ pages of it.

braindead0
February 16, 2004, 06:32 PM
I have downloaded the Adobe pdf document (new CCW law) from the Ohioans for COncealed Carry website, but I have struggeld in vain to get through all 100+ pages of it.
141 pages I believe. The rough part is all the referenced to other areas which you must lookup in order to understand each section.

I've been in contact with ORPA, and a few local clubs regarding these issues. At this time there is no concensus, TDI is running classes and according to one of their instructors the pamphlet will only be given out at the time you apply and the class does not have to provide it. Other classes appear to be doing the same, I've heard the 'Deer Hunter' is claiming to have the pamphlet.

I'm hoping the ORPA or the NRA is going to put all their certified instructors on notice with some sort of position on this issue.

Orion
February 16, 2004, 09:36 PM
Ohio is a fairly conservative State until you get into a Metro area and the counties involved almost always have democrat leadership. Seems the "urbanites" are more concerned about what they can get for free from the Dems than what they can get for themselves like the rest of us.

enfield
February 16, 2004, 10:10 PM
I tried applying in a different county in Michigan -- it didn't work. Seems that for the purpose of local background checks, you have to apply in the county of your primary residence. Since I reside in Jackson county only 5 months of the year, I had to apply in Wayne county (Detroit!). What a bureaucratic nightmare.:rolleyes:

From what I've seen so far, Ohio will be worse except in the rural counties.

Black92LX
February 17, 2004, 01:39 AM
I realize that this hasn't been signed (I thought not) and it will take 90 days to enact

Taft signed the bill on January 8th and the law goes into affect April 7th

Trebor
February 17, 2004, 07:18 AM
If I understand the law correctly, the class must be a NRA Safety Course OR must be 10 hours, etc, etc. Does that mean that the NRA Safety Course itself does NOT have to be 10 hours, as long as it meets NRA criteria?

I'm wondering because I'm not that far from the Ohio border and I'm considering doing some Ohio classes when the dust settles on exactly what is required. I teach the NRA Personal Protection in the Home class for Michigan CPL applicants, and that's what I'd probably do in Ohio as well. The problem is that it is technically only a 8 hour class. (Even though it usually takes me 11 hours or more to get through it all, including the range time)

braindead0
February 17, 2004, 07:23 AM
Taft signed the bill on January 8th and the law goes into affect April 7th
But, the Attorney General has 30 days to submit rules to the Joint Committee on Agency Rule Review, who in turn have 65 days (or potentially more if they have to kick the rules back) to review the rules, and then the AG has another 30 days to actually get the pamphlet and forms to Sheriffs.

It could be august.

If I understand the law correctly, the class must be a NRA Safety Course OR must be 10 hours, etc, etc. Does that mean that the NRA Safety Course itself does NOT have to be 10 hours, as long as it meets NRA criteria?
Incorrect, NRA course is only one of several ways to meet the certification requirements of the law. And even an NRA class must comply will 2923.125(G) which stipulates 12 hours class 2 hours range, must provide pamphlet, give written and skill demonstration test..etc.

hd1.
February 17, 2004, 12:45 PM
Does anyone know if such laws as Toledo's so-called Saturday-night Special Law will still be valid when Ohio's "Shall Issue" goes into effect? It seems to me that Carrying Concealed will be legal, but many concealable guns may not be legal. Just another consideration for out-of-staters passing through.

Below is an excerpt from a Toledo Law:

549.25. Certain handguns prohibited.
(A) The possession or sale of handguns with the following characteristics is prohibited:
(1) A revolver or single shot handguns which:
(a) Has an overall frame length with conventional grips, not measured diagonally of less than 4½”; or
(b) Has a barrel length of less than 3”: or
(c) Fails to pass a safety test as follows:
A Double Action Revolver must have a safety mechanism which automatically (or in a Single Action Revolver by manual operation) causes the hammer to retract to a point where the firing pin does not rest upon the primer of the cartridge or when not in lawful use an external locking or safety device which prevents the firearm from discharging; or
(d) Fails to achieve a score of forty-five (45) points as set forth in Appendix “A” of this chapter;
(2) A semiautomatic handgun which
(a) Does not have a positive manually operated safety device or a double action trigger pull; or when not in lawful use an external locking or safety device which prevents the firearm from discharging, or;
(b) Has a combined length and height of less than 10” with the height (right angle measurement to barrel without magazine or extension) being at least 4” and the length being at least 6”; or
(c) Fails to achieve a score of seventy-five (75) points as set forth in Appendix “A” of this chapter.
(B) No person shall sell, transfer, give, offer for sale or possess any handgun described in “A” above.
(1) Whoever violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree.

---Snip---

APPENDIX “A”
FACTORING CRITERIA FOR HANDGUNS
SEMI-AUTOMATIC HANDGUNS
INDIVIDUAL CHARACTERISTICS POINT VALUE
OVERALL LENGTH
FOR EACH ¼” OVER 6” 1
FRAME CONSTRUCTION
INVESTMENT CAST OR FORGED STEEL 15
INVESTMENT CAST OR FORGED HTS ALLOY 20
OR POLYMER
WEAPON WEIGHT W/MAGAZINE (UNLOADED)
PER OUNCE 1
CALIBER
.22 SHORT AND 25 AUTO 0
.22 LR AND 7.65mm TO .380 AUTO 3
9mm PARABELLUM AND OVER 10
SAFETY FEATURES
LOCKED BREECH MECHANISM 5
LOADED CHAMBER INDICATOR 5
GRIP SAFETY 3
MAGAZINE SAFETY 5
TRIGGER SAFETY 5
FIRING PIN BLOCK OR LOCK 10
MISCELLANEOUS EQUIPMENT
EXTERNAL HAMMER 2
DOUBLE ACTION 10
DRIFT ADJUSTABLE SIGHT 5
CLICK ADJUSTABLE SIGHT 10
TARGET GRIPS 5
TARGET TRIGGER 2
(QUALIFYING SCORE IS 75 POINTS)
REVOLVER AND SINGLE SHOT HANDGUNS
INDIVIDUAL CHARACTERISTICS POINT VALUE
BARREL LENGTH (MUZZLE TO CYLINDER FACE)
LESS THAN 4” 0
FOR EACH ¼” OVER 4” ½
FRAME CONSTRUCTION
INVESTMENT CAST OR FORGED STEEL 15
INVESTMENT CAST OR FORGED HTS ALLOY 20
WEAPON WEIGHT (UNLOADED)
PER OUNCE 1
CALIBER
.22 SHORT TO .25 ACP 0
.22 LR AND .30 TO .38 S&W 3
.38 SPECIAL 4
.357 MAG AND OVER 5
MISCELLANEOUS EQUIPMENT
ADJUSTABLE SIGHTS
(DRIFT OR CLICK) 5
TARGET GRIPS 5
TARGET HAMMER AND TARGET TRIGGER 5
(QUALIFYING SCORE IS 45 POINTS)
(Ord. 755-99. Passed 9-28-99; Ord. 114-00, Passed 2-15-00; Ord. 864-02. Passed 12-17-02)

braindead0
February 17, 2004, 01:11 PM
This has been discussed on the OFCC mailing lists quite a bit. The new law will likely not affect the toledo law. Get out of there, quick!

Atticus
February 17, 2004, 07:38 PM
Hindsight is 20/20. Shoulda dumped Toledo while we had a chance.


Toledo War: battle between Michigan and Ohio
(Otherwise known as the beginning of The Ohio State - Michigan rivalry)

http://wiwi.essortment.com/toledowar_rzxq.htm

braindead0
March 3, 2004, 03:45 PM
Below is an email received from the AG's office, which makes it quite clear that the class must provide the pamphlet (that doesn't exist) but does apper to leave it open as to when the class provides the pamphlet (ie: later may be okay).

There is also some good advice about what to ask people offering classes.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 12:14:29 -0500
From: Constituent Services <Constituent_Services@ag.state.oh.us>

Mr. Walker,

The law sets out minimum educational requirements that are a component of the various forms of competency certification. The law requires at least ten hours of training in the following matters:
The ability to name, explain and demonstrate the rules for safe handling of a handgun and proper storage practices for handguns and ammunition;

The ability to demonstrate and explain how to handle ammunition in a safe manner;

The ability to demonstrate the knowledge, skills and attitude necessary to shoot a handgun in a safe manner;

Additionally, trainees must have two hours of training including range time and live-fire experience, be given a copy of the pamphlet and must take an examination that tests their competency.

The test, at a minimum, includes a written section on the ability to name and explain the rules for the safe handling of a handgun, and proper storage practices for handguns and ammunition as well as a physical demonstration of competency on handgun usage and rules for safe handling and storage of a handgun and an examination requiring the physical demonstration of the attitude necessary to shoot a handgun in a safe manner.

The Attorney General does not endorse any particular form of training or instructor. However, a list of Ohio Peace Officer's Training Commission certified instructors who wish to teach classes to the general public will be made available from the Attorney General's website at www.ag.state.oh.us. County sheriffs also may have a list of certified instructors who have provided contact information to the sheriff.

As advisory to consumers, the Attorney General advises anyone contemplating private handgun training to take the following minimum steps before paying for any form of training:

Verify the person teaching the class is qualified to teach.
Confirm the instructor knows the requirements of the law.
Be certain the instructor will provide you with the Attorney General's pamphlet.
Verify whether a refund or additional training may be available if a county sheriff determines the course was incomplete when you apply.

Mark C. Gribben
Director of Constituent Services
Office of Attorney General Jim Petro
(614) 644-8529




-----Original Message-----

It appears that many of the things in the QA and overview related to HB-12 contain information that runs counter to HB-12 as passed. For example the overview states NRA Safety Course qualifies as proof of training with no mention of the requirements in 2923.125(G) which detail what the class must cover.

The QA states that people should get training now, but as far as I can tell that is not possible unless you fall under 2923.125(B)(3)(d) which doesn't require additional training at all. The main concern is 2923.125(G) which states specifically that the class must provide the pamphlet, which doesn't exist. Unless your interpretation of that would allow a class to send students the pamphlet at a later time, getting training now will not meet the requirements.

Henry Bowman
March 3, 2004, 05:03 PM
I don't think that the Hamilton County Sheriff will act in an anti-CCW-issuance kind of way, but I'd like to reward the Clermont County Shrf with my fee for his being an outspoken proponent of CCW in Ohio.

braindead0
March 15, 2004, 05:08 PM
The Ohio AG has posted what appears to be a draft of the Pamphlet (http://www.ag.state.oh.us/web_applications/concealcarry/documents/cc_booklet20040311-72.pdf). This document is wrong on a variety of points, most notably on car carry. It also refers to the 'priviledge' when in fact the law states nothing of the sort.

Hopefully when it gets submitted to JCARR, they'll kick it back.

madmike
March 16, 2004, 12:26 AM
So derringers are legal in Toledo... they're not revolver, auto or single shot.

And it looks like they prefer you to carry large calibers and good guns. Hey! Nice to know the wannabe criminals can only legally buy stuff that works! Wouldn't want them to shoot someone with a .25! It's commonly used in crime. but if they shoot someone with a .45, well, that's okay...

As to the AG's office,
Looks to me like the bureaurats are so screwed up they don't know what they're doing. This is a surprise?

And ten hours to teach "treat it as if it's loaded, don't point it at anything you don't intend to shoot, first and last action is to check the chamber"?

Heck, my wife is trying to join the Guard. Took less than an HOUR for me to teach her to strip and reassemble an AR-15, about an hour to teach her the fundamentals of shooting, and another hour to get her an expert score. She's ready on the rifle front. :D

Guess it'll be a long time before they grant reciprocity to IN. Sigh.

telewinz
March 16, 2004, 07:12 AM
In shopping around for a CCW class mosy cost $100 and up and last two days with most of the last day being reserved for "extra" instruction for those who need it and the 2 hour range time. I'm going this weekend. Now what size picture do I need to apply with, an 8X10 color glossy?

braindead0
March 16, 2004, 09:09 AM
an 8X10 color glossy?
Nude of course....

G1FAL
March 16, 2004, 02:28 PM
Anyone know how the sheriff's of Hancock, Allen, Wyandot, Marion, Union, Auglaize, or Logan counties stand on CCW? I am thinking of NOT going thru my county's SO, because although the sheriff of my county is pro-CCW, I am getting real tired of hearing a couple of the employees (including the one who is going to be responsible for issuing and such) bitch about CCW. Since we can go to neighboring counties, I may just go to one of those.

Black92LX
March 16, 2004, 04:09 PM
I am getting real tired of hearing a couple of the employees (including the one who is going to be responsible for issuing and such) bitch about CCW.

i would go there just to piss them off. considering it's a SHALL ISSUE if you meet the requirements they can't turn you down. but then again i enjoy to ruffle peoples feather in situations like those.

G1FAL
March 17, 2004, 12:29 AM
Yes, BUT, this way I can make sure that the money does NOT go to them, and when they ask why I went to another county to get my license, when I could have just gotten it at work, I can tell them exactly why.

Black92LX
March 17, 2004, 01:58 AM
so the sherriffs office make a profit??? i though the fee was only to cover expenses??

braindead0
March 17, 2004, 07:20 AM
so the sherriffs office make a profit??? i though the fee was only to cover expenses??
Yup, but one of those expenses is time for employees to do the paperwork..etc.. pretty easy to cook that up and pay for someone out of this fund instead of their regular budget.

braindead0
March 24, 2004, 03:54 PM
So, the AG's site now says (NOTE: These applications may be printed in hard copy form, filled out and taken to a county sheriff's office beginning April 8th.)

That's not to say your county Sheriff will be ready, but that's what the AG website says.

See the AG website for details (http://www.ag.state.oh.us/web%5Fapplications/concealcarry/about.asp)

Ukraine Train
March 25, 2004, 10:02 AM
I wonder if they'll let me submit my app in a county outside of mine or one that's adjacent to mine. I'll be in MI when the law goes into effect and the nearest OH county is maybe 1.5hrs away whereas my home county is 3.5.

braindead0
March 25, 2004, 10:17 AM
You can submit to any county adjacent to your county of residence.

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