Filled another bucket of APS strips


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Peter M. Eick
February 4, 2012, 07:03 PM
Just cranking away on the press and I had to stop and clean up the excess APS strips. I was chagrined to see that I have filled another bucket full so i had to drag it out to the garage and get my 3rd bucket to start filling.

http://eickpm.com/picts/full_bucket.jpg

I have given a bunch of strips away otherwise I would be on my 5th or 6th bucket by now but lately I have decided to start stockpiling them in case they ever stop making primers preloaded in APS strips.

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ReloaderFred
February 4, 2012, 08:16 PM
And to think I've been buying them to load Federal primers in...............

Fred

codefour
February 4, 2012, 10:01 PM
Peter M Eick, you are the man.! THanks again for your awesome write up on the Pro 2000. It convinced me to get it over all the other progressive presses. I love my Pro 2000...

I do not have as many strips as you do yet, but I have only had my press for seven months..

How many rounds are you up to now using your Pro 2000..?? Any new issues arise after the minor problems reported in your original 150,000 round report.?

280shooter
February 5, 2012, 02:11 AM
So you buy the strips all ready with primmers in them?
I have the rcbs set up that I use to load the strips,, Man you have a load of them strips for sure,, Damn,,

meleors
February 5, 2012, 03:07 AM
Why not sell a bunch. Many load their own strips and would love to buy more empty strips.

FROGO207
February 5, 2012, 05:44 AM
I used to save the primer cartons/ boxes/trays after they were empty. After I filled a couple of contractor bags I asked myself WHY?? So now I recycle them along with my other cardboard and plastic waste before they get out of hand. With the strips I can see why you would save them for a rainy day but I would seal them in your choice of airtight containers if storing them long term as some plastics can deteriorate if not well protected from sunlight and ozone exposure.

Peter M. Eick
February 5, 2012, 02:37 PM
I am coming up on 300,000 rounds loaded out of my Pro2000. I actually stopped yesterday to shoot the shot because I ran out of bullets again. I ordered another 8000 (or was it 6000) from MBC on saturday.

Yes I buy CCI primers preloaded. It just eliminates one more step and it is easy. I cannot actually think of the last time I physically touched a primer except to see if the primers are fully seated. It just is too easy to deal with.

I loaded 2000 38 Specials (158 MBC Match with varying powders) so at 4 strips per hundred, I ended up with a big pile of strips after a few evenings of fun.

codefour
February 6, 2012, 02:17 AM
Dillon users should read Peter M Eick's last post. I hope I also get 300,000 trouble free rounds loaded......

GW Staar
February 9, 2012, 02:34 AM
Hi Pete!

After that huge stash of primers you bought a few months ago, I was wondering how soon you'd reach 300,000.

For those who haven't read Eicks Pro 2000 review on Handloaders.com upon completing 150,000 rounds, he said he'd report back at 300,000.

So are you going to update your Handloader article?:D

BTW, is that a lockout die in #3? and what's that funny-looking thing sticking out of the primer mechanism? (kidding)

I'm still buying and loading strips to transfer my 10 year CCI, Winchester, Federal primer stash. I wish I could find boxes the size CCI uses to store them in. The other thing that's a pain is having to beg RCBS for the sticky labels to stick the strips to. They send them free, but not that many at a time.:( If and when I get these all transferred, I will only buy preloaded...that's the only way to go.

A guy in Arfcom bought a stash of APS primers at a local pawn shop (military primers) and he poked them all out and filled a bowl with primers!!! The guys over there were quick to point out the danger of making a bomb like that!(yes he repented)

So you like those Missouri Bullets, obviously! No problems with leading barrels? How much cheaper are they than plated bullets like Berry's?

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
February 9, 2012, 09:17 AM
Congratulations on making it to 300,000 loaded. I notice you're now buying your primers from Missouri Bullet Company. Has he started stocking the CCI primers with APS strips or are you putting in a bulk bullet/brass/primer order?

Assuming I can get my latest glitch with my once in a life time press resolved, I want to get at least 40 each of the large and small primer strips to start reloading more effectively. That'll at least get me a thousand primers ready to load with. I'm thinking it would end up being cheaper buying a thousand primers of each size to get the strips. I can load that up easily.

edfardos
February 9, 2012, 10:45 AM
let us know if you're willing to sell a couple fist fulls. I'd buy. Nobody sells cci primers in the strips around here so I've been using the same eight strips over and over... Okay I'm down to six, having shoved the large primer plunger thru the *small* primer strips a few times. Based on the color of your strips, it looks like you make a *lot* of small pistol rounds.

rcbspro2000 user,
edfardos

Peter M. Eick
February 10, 2012, 10:14 PM
I do bulk orders of primers with another Pro2000 user from Powder valley. We normally order about 70 lbs worth at a time or about 100,000 primers at a whack.

MBC is where I am getting bullets from.

If you guys need primers, PM me an address. I have about 100 small pistol primer strips in a pile on the bench because I have not gotten out a new bucket to put them in. I won't be doing large pistol for a while but I can send you some when I switch over.

Peter M. Eick
February 10, 2012, 10:24 PM
GWstar,

Yes, when I officially hit 300,000 (I am waiting on MBC bullets right now) I will do another long review and really show the pro2000. I have been thinking about a few video's showing how I run the thing also.

Yes I now run a lockout die on number 3. I finally succumbed to the fear of complacency that I had loaded over a quarter million rounds without a screw up and my time was up so I took out an insurance policy in the lockout die. This gives me a check on double charges or missed charges. It works well.

Yes MBC seem to be reasonably bullets. My only complaint so far is really minor. The lube is just a bit more sticky than Lasercasts and yes, the softer bullets are beat up a bit in shipping so they don't look as nice as Lasercasts. I will keep shooting lasercasts for 357 Maximum and 357 Magnum loads though.

The MBC bullets have not caused leading except for my 38 super loads. I was pushing a 135 at 1300 fps and I was getting lead right at the end of the barrel. The lube groove on the 135's was a bit small in my opinion and I think I was just plain running out of lube. I am probably going just a hair too fast and a bit too little lube for the bullet. But, a 38 super needs to be a 130 at 1300 in my book. Sort of like 10mm. 200@1200!

158's are $32.50 for 500, $6.50 discount for the highroad and 5.50 shipping if I do the math right.

I never had good luck with Berry's. Even the double struck ones I never found accurate. Either I was overcrimping or just expecting too much from them I am not sure. In the end I just gave up on them. I am thinking about trying some Zero bullets though. I usually shoot Remington or Winchester bulk bullets for plinking in certain guns, but I have not found bulk (2000 round) boxes of bullets in a while.

Take care of yourself. We need to have more of the Pro2000 conversations!

GW Staar
February 13, 2012, 01:16 PM
GWstar,

Yes, when I officially hit 300,000 (I am waiting on MBC bullets right now) I will do another long review and really show the pro2000. I have been thinking about a few video's showing how I run the thing also.

Good deal, I'm looking forward to the read!

Yes I now run a lockout die on number 3. I finally succumbed to the fear of complacency that I had loaded over a quarter million rounds without a screw up and my time was up so I took out an insurance policy in the lockout die. This gives me a check on double charges or missed charges. It works well.

Yes, a lockout die has finally made it to the top of my list to buy, mostly due to finally having a station available with the powder through expander. (more on that at the bottom of this post.)

Yes MBC seem to be reasonably bullets. My only complaint so far is really minor. The lube is just a bit more sticky than Lasercasts and yes, the softer bullets are beat up a bit in shipping so they don't look as nice as Lasercasts. I will keep shooting lasercasts for 357 Maximum and 357 Magnum loads though.

The MBC bullets have not caused leading except for my 38 super loads. I was pushing a 135 at 1300 fps and I was getting lead right at the end of the barrel. The lube groove on the 135's was a bit small in my opinion and I think I was just plain running out of lube. I am probably going just a hair too fast and a bit too little lube for the bullet. But, a 38 super needs to be a 130 at 1300 in my book. Sort of like 10mm. 200@1200!

158's are $32.50 for 500, $6.50 discount for the highroad and 5.50 shipping if I do the math right.

I never had good luck with Berry's. Even the double struck ones I never found accurate. Either I was overcrimping or just expecting too much from them I am not sure. In the end I just gave up on them. I am thinking about trying some Zero bullets though. I usually shoot Remington or Winchester bulk bullets for plinking in certain guns, but I have not found bulk (2000 round) boxes of bullets in a while.

Take care of yourself. We need to have more of the Pro2000 conversations!

Interesting about the bullets. I may have to try Missouri. THR discount even.:D

My lastest project was making the new RCBS powder though expander work without stressing the Uniflow too much. As you know Hornady has a little adjustable stop (looks like an all-thread turnbuckle) to take the stress off their measure. You can use that on a Uniflow only if you buy the smaller spring from Hornady and the screw-in rods the spring mounts on. I chose to try another way...will take a picture sometime and post it.

The Hornady expander has the advantage of not needing a brain to adjust it...you can't make it expand any amount except the "designed" amount" The RCBS design however has no stop to keep you from overexpanding. That means you have to use calipers and trial and error.

On the otherhand. the RCBS design has two expanders....the ball at the end and the cone behind it. The ball is really neat, in that it expands the case just enough so that when the bullet drops in, it goes into the case easy due to the cone-made wide mouth flare, then sticks good and straight into the part expanded by the ball....a two stage expansion. I like it....you never have a bullet lean like you do with a single flare. Works super with my bullet feeder.

So I have a Uniflow setup like yours with Hornady linkage and expander and another with the RCBS linkage and expander.....I'll probably buy one more Uniflow to use just for rifle. Will look for a good buy on a used one.

I'm idle (construction is slow again) so I'm testing the premise that you can't have a case feeder on a Pro 2000.......still premature, but I think I'm about to succeed. My goal is to do it without a lot of parts and complication... holding to the Pro 2000's simplicity. To keep it out of the way of the primer feeder and ejection port, it requires a simple articulation in the feeder ram. We'll see....

Will I use it myself? I have my doubts, since I've never seen the need to set speed records, but others may like and use the idea. Maybe even RCBS will see it can be done. Sometimes real engineers over-engineer such things and price it right out of existence before it even gets started. A dummy like me has no resources to make complicated things.:)

Peter M. Eick
February 13, 2012, 10:51 PM
Based upon your recommendation, I ordered a complete set of the RCBS expanders. I retired my hornady's for the same reason you said. No control to speak of for the expander and went with a PTX one that works, but occasionally will catch on the brass and crush a bit of the case. I am still using the Hornady linkage though.

I have not really seen the need for a feeder. I would rather RCBS move to a bigger newer press like a 9 station one that had more room to put in more things. I think the pro2000 is a solid unit for chunking out a block of rounds like I did tonight. 490 357 magnums in just under and hour and I was loafing. I was sorting out all of the nickle brass from the brass brass and just loading the nickle so I was running slow because I was sorting. Once you get going on the pro2000 you can really crank out some rounds.

GW Staar
February 14, 2012, 08:29 PM
Based upon your recommendation, I ordered a complete set of the RCBS expanders. I retired my hornady's for the same reason you said. No control to speak of for the expander and went with a PTX one that works, but occasionally will catch on the brass and crush a bit of the case. I am still using the Hornady linkage though.

Let's see if I got this straight. You retired the Hornady PTX expanders and replaced them with the aftermarket (Powderfunnels) PTX expanders, right? Then you bought a set of RCBS expanders???? to use with the Hornady linkage (and powder die?) I wouldn't think they'd fit unless you replaced Hornady's powder die with the RCBS one? Fix my foggy brain, please?

I have not really seen the need for a feeder. I would rather RCBS move to a bigger newer press like a 9 station one that had more room to put in more things. I think the pro2000 is a solid unit for chunking out a block of rounds like I did tonight. 490 357 magnums in just under and hour and I was loafing. I was sorting out all of the nickle brass from the brass brass and just loading the nickle so I was running slow because I was sorting. Once you get going on the pro2000 you can really crank out some rounds.

I hear ya about the need for a feeder. My problem isn't the Pro 2000, it's my ability to keep feeding two things for hours without forgetting one...age factor or Alzheimer's setting in or both..:o I seem to do way better with the bullet feeder....I can handle one.:)

Playing with a case feeder is just for fun....a challenge to keep the brain healthy. I may just go as far as a tube feeder "$24 bullet feeder style" as I like the idea of not having to feed each one out of a bin, you know, but I still want control, so fast automation is not the goal. With such a feeder a person anal about speed could pay the 250 bucks and use Dillon's Collator with it pretty easy. The point is...they could have the speed advantages of a Dillon with the advantages of a Pro 2000. That opens another choice.

Actually the important reason for this exercize, is that I figure if me or someone else comes up with such a thing. RCBS will make it null and void, by either doing it better.....or giving us a new 9 station? press.:D

Peter M. Eick
February 14, 2012, 10:24 PM
Yes, that is true. I started with RCBS and RCBS expander in the die. Next was Lyman M dies. Did not like that setup so I went Hornady and Hornady expander with the uniflow. Did not like that setup so I went Hornday with PTX expander that I am currently using. I note that the PTX occasionally clips and crushes the brass so I am going to abandon it and go back to the RCBS with RCBS expander and the uniflow.

Sounds crazy, but I like to work and making my best rounds so if something does not work right, I switch it.

The case feeder is like the bullet feeder. Neat idea but I am not after speed. If someone made one that worked easily I might be tempted but I can hold my own with my Pro2000.

I still want the RCBS solid steel 9 station press that I can have a bunch of different dies in it. I would also not have the floating AL die block on top. I would have that be solid but I think that would require a fair amount of precision on the lower subassembly for the die plate.

Either way, they are a lot of fun and I really enjoy mine!

Take care and the RCBS expanders should be here tomorrow or so. I will have to try them out and see how they work.

GW Staar
February 15, 2012, 01:43 AM
Sounds crazy, but I like to work and making my best rounds so if something does not work right, I switch it.



I guess I have a corollary to that. If something does not work right, most of the time the problem is me. So I "dumb" proof the procedure so that I can't screw it up. That's why I build mods.:)

Take the 25-count primer strips for example. I can count to 25 alright, but I also can also...forget to. One day I demoed my pride and joy to a friend and loaded 25 perfect rounds, and continued to load 15 more rounds with no primers!:o

That was the day the wheels started turning that resulted in my electronic counter. Until I finished it I used the cup method of idiot proofing the process. First cup with 15 bullets, dumped in the bullet tray. When I ran out I dumped the next cup with 25 bullets, (and added a new primer strip), repeat cups of 25 until finished...no more screw ups.:rolleyes:

BTW the guy that made the counter circuit for me closed his website to take a job that has a non-compete clause. But he informed me the other day that he'd make more for my friends (if I can find any).

Peter M. Eick
February 15, 2012, 10:03 PM
I find the strip counter idea neat and I can see its purpose but it has never been a problem for me. I just instinctively glance at the primer strip while feeding the brass in. Now, a total round counter, that would be more interesting. Something that counted each round as it drops into the bin.

Still. If RCBS would just make a 9 station pro2000 replacement I would be a lot more happy.

As to my constantly trying different tools to fix the problem, that is just my way of experimenting. I am a scientist so if things are not right, I just want to try and experiment. By the way, the new expanders showed up so I will swap out the uniflow/hornady/ptx setup for the fully RCBS setup and see how it does. Such is the fun of reloading!

GW Staar
February 16, 2012, 11:34 AM
Total counter huh? He asked me if I wanted one. Said it amounted to a few lines in his software program and an extra push button to display it. That's the difference between me and you.:D I said no, he said well if you ever want it call.

codefour
February 16, 2012, 04:22 PM
Peter and GW Staar,
So, how do we convince RCBS to make a nine station progressive press..?? I think even a seven stage press would work as well. Two more stations would be very nice.

GW Staar
February 16, 2012, 05:01 PM
Interesting thought, Codefour. did you notice how fast RCBS picked up the idea to use a bullet feeder die with only some clear tubing, bypassing the spensive collator?....What 3 months?:D

a few things are obvious from the $28 Bullet Feeder Thread:

1. A good idea sparks a lot of enthusiasm yes, but more important....action. A lot of guys jumped on the idea fast and made their own. Hornady had to see a big jump in the sales of bullet feed dies but not collators and wondered why!.;)

2. Good ideas spread. Google "$28 bullet feeder. Then look at all the sites it spread to. Besides AR15.com and THR.com where it started. Brian Enos, Calguns, ingunowners, 1911forum, and on and on.:)

3. RCBS has silent industry spies on the reloading forums.......seeing how they moved on and copied the idea faster than I would have dreamed possible for a big company.

Sooooo.....one way to find out if such a press could be reality, would be a thread (started you or Pete?) on why we need a 7 or 9-station press, and more importantly how much people would be willing to pay for such a thing! If it sparks an interest in progressive users country wide...besides you, me and Pete, of course....then who knows. (what I do know, is that RCBS needs more than 3 buyers to even yawn. Seriously? I suspect the market for it will be too small...although they might yawn.)

codefour
February 16, 2012, 05:43 PM
GW Staar,
You are the man when it comes to inovative thinking on the Pro 2000.

Regarding RCBS, they will have to see a decent profit margin for designing and prodcuing a seven or nine station press. That is some serious R&D and lots of money. And the production costs would be pretty high having to retool machinery for the new press. If RCBS came out with a seven station that was in the thousand dollar range, I would get one if it kept true to the Pro 2000 simplicity. Next time I call them for a warranty part, I am most definitely going to mention it to them.

Unfortunately, Dillon Precision has the corner of the market for commercial reloading at the non-industrial (Camdex type) level with the Super 1050. THe 1050 is too expensive for the shooting volume I do and the caliber conversions are also pricey.

Off the subject of a seven station press, I ordered the hornady linkage/screw adaptor that limits the amount of lift on the metering drum on the up stroke while using the RCBS powder through expanders. I think I can put it on the opposite side of the linkage lifting arm with extended bolts. I too want to prevent the metering screw from jamming into the Uniflow body. If I figure it out, I will post some pics when I am done.

Peter M. Eick
February 16, 2012, 08:52 PM
Your point about the costs is why I want to go to 9 stations over 7. If you are going to make a jump to a big press, then make it a significant jump.

My thought on stages:
1) case feeder
2) Lube die
3) universal deprime
4) resize (with no deprime)
5) Expand, prime
6) powder dispense
7) powder check
8) seat
9) crimp

Alternative would be to powder dispense with the primer and then feed bullet at 7.

To me a 9 stage press with lots of room would cover everything I want, could allow me a lot of flexibility, and would make adjustments so much easier on each of the dies.

Lets work out what we want (do I hear a new thread?) and then propagate it around the net and do a letter writing campaign.

GW Staar
February 17, 2012, 01:25 PM
GW Staar,
You are the man when it comes to inovative thinking on the Pro 2000.

Let's not forget that AlliedArmory was the inovative thinker on the $28. bullet feeder.....he got the idea from my Hornady Bullet feeder mods. It was his idea that caught on fire...not mine....if I'd thought of it, I may not have even bought my Hornady collator.:rolleyes:

Off the subject of a seven station press, I ordered the hornady linkage/screw adaptor that limits the amount of lift on the metering drum on the up stroke while using the RCBS powder through expanders. I think I can put it on the opposite side of the linkage lifting arm with extended bolts. I too want to prevent the metering screw from jamming into the Uniflow body. If I figure it out, I will post some pics when I am done.

That may work all right and will be a simpler solution than what I did. I thought about posting pictures of it, but thought naw...there's probably a simpler way. But it's built and I'm using it.

Your point about the costs is why I want to go to 9 stations over 7. If you are going to make a jump to a big press, then make it a significant jump.

My thought on stages:
1) case feeder
2) Lube die
3) universal deprime
4) resize (with no deprime)
5) Expand, prime
6) powder dispense
7) powder check
8) seat
9) crimp

Alternative would be to powder dispense with the primer and then feed bullet at 7.

To me a 9 stage press with lots of room would cover everything I want, could allow me a lot of flexibility, and would make adjustments so much easier on each of the dies.

Lets work out what we want (do I hear a new thread?) and then propagate it around the net and do a letter writing campaign.

I don't see any winking smiley face so I guess you think it could work. Starting a new thread....feel free to lean it anyway you want. The other side of this is that Dillon or Hornady....shucks even Lee....could be lurking as well.:)

OK, New Thread started, "Wish List: Next Generation Progressive." Start your engines.:D

Peter M. Eick
February 17, 2012, 09:58 PM
I added too it.

I will probably write a thesis into it this weekend. I really need to document why we need more stations and how I would use them.

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