Lazzeroni in a Rem 700?


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Grubby
February 5, 2012, 08:39 AM
Hello,
I was looking at building a Remington 700 in a lazzeroni cartridge, either a 6.71 Phantom or a 7.21 Tomahawk. Is this possible to do? The gun was originally chambered in 7mm Rem Mag. The biggest thing I'm worried about, is opening the bolt head up enough to allow for the massive .580 rim diameter and the cartridge being too "fat" to fit in the magazine.

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helotaxi
February 5, 2012, 09:00 AM
Good luck. I almost think that you'd need to start with a "large magnum" action designed for the .338 Lapua or .378 Weatherby to make sure that the action (and bolt) were strong enough and the magazine fat enough. Also have to consider barrel shank diameter and how much barrel is (or in this case isnt') left around the chamber once it's cut.

nastynatesfish
February 5, 2012, 09:37 AM
i think the lazzaroni rounds are a sham. you burn guns up and spend a fortune on them trying to shoot them. some things are best to just look at on tv. if your looking for a big round just look into the weatherby magnums or the RUM rounds in 7mm and 300

Grubby
February 5, 2012, 09:38 AM
The barrel I am looking at purchasing has a 1.250 chamber thickness and the cartridge diameter is .580, which would leave about .350 on each side of the chamber. If you want to look at the barrel I will be using it is the E.R. Shaw Remington 700 #3 Contour.

Abel
February 5, 2012, 11:04 AM
i think the lazzaroni rounds are a sham. you burn guns up and spend a fortune on them trying to shoot them. some things are best to just look at on tv. if your looking for a big round just look into the weatherby magnums or the RUM rounds in 7mm and 300

100% correct.

MachIVshooter
February 5, 2012, 11:05 AM
I almost think that you'd need to start with a "large magnum" action designed for the .338 Lapua or .378 Weatherby to make sure that the action (and bolt) were strong enough and the magazine fat enough.

Remington only has two actions; Short and long enough for the Lazzeroni-equivalent RUMs.

However, the two he is looking at are the short magnums.

The 6.71 phantom does nothing a 6.5-06 won't do, except limit magazine capacity to 2 rounds.

The 7.21 Tomahawk is basically identical to the 7mm WSM or 7mm SAUM, and does nothing the 7mm RM he has now won't do.

Lazzeroni, like Weatherby, loads their factory fodder hot with proprietary powders. Handloaders find it is difficult to match their factory numbers without excessive pressure. OTOH, the large RUM's are loaded rather sedately from Remington and can easily (and safely) be turned up a couple notches.

OP;

Save your money. If you want a wicked 6.5, build a 6.5-.284 or 6.5-06 AI. If you want a SA 7mm cartridge, just buy a 7mm WSM or 7mm SAUM rifle and have relatively inexpensive ammo & components avaialable.

If you're thinking any of these will have some advantage in the field over your current 7mm RM, they don't.

However, if you just wanna do something completely different and have something no one else does, then go for it. But that would be all you're getting; A little exclusivity.

hardluk1
February 5, 2012, 11:30 AM
grubby your going to need a good gunsmith right? Talk to him about your wants and wish's.

helotaxi
February 5, 2012, 11:34 AM
Remington only has two actions; Short and long enough for the Lazzeroni-equivalent RUMs.Which one is their .338 LM built on? In theory Savage only has 2 actions as well except that the 110BA and 111LRH in .338 don't use either of them. Remington has a .338 as well.

MachIVshooter
February 5, 2012, 11:50 AM
Which one is their .338 LM built on?

AFAIK, the MLR was basically a long-action 40x.

LoonWulf
February 5, 2012, 01:06 PM
I dont think there is anything wrong with the Lazzeroni cartridges, in fact i believe they came out before any of the other short magnums (besides the 6.5 and .350 rem, nothings new eh?). They do use a proprietary case, not something you can make from any other round. If some one wants something different then the standard short mags, and a factory offering, they are a pretty good choice. Personally id prefer to wildcat the RCM case, but thats me.

Kachok
February 5, 2012, 04:50 PM
Those mega ultra STW Uber magnums are a way past the point where deminishing returns kicks in. The Lazzeroni 7.82 Warbird is way over hyped as are the ultra mags, both of which strugle to shoot 1.5" flatter at 600 yards then a regular 270 WSM or 7mm rem mag with handloads. If that 1.5" @600 is worth the mega bucks you pay for ammo/brass, powder, not to mention barrels that you burn out on a regular basis then you have a heck of alot more money then I do, I'll stick to brass I can buy for less then a buck a piece and barrels that will last several thousand rounds. $100 a box for their wannabe short mag ammo are you kidding me???

MachIVshooter
February 5, 2012, 09:06 PM
The Lazzeroni 7.82 Warbird is way over hyped as are the ultra mags, both of which strugle to shoot 1.5" flatter at 600 yards then a regular 270 WSM or 7mm rem mag with handloads.

The problem is, most people misunderstand the purpose of the RUM's and other large capacity small bores like them. They were not meant to push mid-weight bullets at lightning-fast velocities; They are intended to provide the trajectories of the smaller bore, large capacity cartridges with heavier bullets. Though they will drive them at over 3,600 FPS, loading a .300 RUM or 7.82 warbird with 150 gr. bullets is stupid. They were meant to drive 200 gr. pills with a trajectory somewhat better than a .270 win 130 gr. load. A 200 gr. .308" BTSP at 3,100-3,200 FPS definitely has it's place in the world.

However, I do agree that when you're burning 100+ grains of powder in a bore smaller than .30", you really are at a point of diminishing (or no) returns. As I mentioned in another thread (and I think it bears repeating), anything over 80-85 grs. is well over-bore capacity in .284" (7mm STW), just as anything more than 65-70 grs. in .257" (.257 weatherby) is wasting powder and increasing recoil.

The limits seem to be along the lines of:

.172 cal.-25 grs.
.204 cal.-35 grs.
.224 cal.-50 grs.
.244 cal.-60 grs.
.257 cal- 70 grs.
.264 cal.-75 grs.
.277 cal.-80 grs.
.284 cal.-85 grs
.308 cal.-100 grs.
.338 cal.-120 grs.
.358 cal.-130 grs.
.375 cal.-140 grs.

From there, things get a little weird, jumping from the 140-150 gr. of the .408 chey tac to 200 grains for the .416 Barrett and then the ridiculous Anzio 20/50 (which looks like super-sized version of the .17 Rem) with something like a 450 gr. charge driving 800 gr. bullets at 3,500 FPS :what:.

Anzio 20/50 (left) and a .50 BMG (right)

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_06501.JPG

Kachok
February 5, 2012, 10:00 PM
True but the question is what kind of anamal needs 200gr 30 cal pills AND 7mm rem mag trajectory. Last I checked Alaska had a law about shooting brown bear past 200 yards. Moose are usualy taken within 100yd and with todays bullets you can put a 165-180gr 30 cal through any elk. Mabey if you wanted to take a bison at 1,000yd just to say you did LOL I guess to each their own, but they won't be getting any of my buisness that's for sure. 7mm rem mag and 270 WSM are about as fast and powerful as I would ever need a rifle to be, and nothing short of major brain damage would get me to pay $3 a brass for a rifle that will blow up mono metal bullets up close and break my shoulder just to throw a .30 cal bullet, If I suddenly flet the urge to break my shoulder I would go borrow my friends .460 Wby magnum :D
Anyone that wants the be all end all of long ranged rifles should just go ahead and get a 408 Cheytec, 50BMG or 338 Lapua and skip the wimpy little Warbird.

HOOfan_1
February 5, 2012, 10:15 PM
The problem is, most people misunderstand the purpose of the RUM's and other large capacity small bores like them. They were not meant to push mid-weight bullets at lightning-fast velocities;


Light weight bullets are what Lazzeroni loads in their overkill cartridges though. You can spend $100 for 20 too. :eek:

http://www.lazzeroni.com/ct_lacart.htm

MachIVshooter
February 5, 2012, 10:43 PM
True but the question is what kind of anamal needs 200gr 30 cal pills AND 7mm rem mag trajectory.

Animal? None. Person? Many. Maybe not need, but want. If you build it, they will come (or buy, as it were) ;).

If I suddenly flet the urge to break my shoulder I would go borrow my friends .460 Wby magnum

I have no experience with the Warbird, but the .300 RUM is really not bad. My sister bought a 700 LS with the R3 recoil pad factory installed; The thing doesn't seem to recoil any worse than the various 7 mags I've shot. And it's not a heavy rifle. Granted, I only shot it with factory loads, which are relatively sedate........

Why did she buy it? Honestly, she just wanted the 700 LS. There's no hunting she does that her .280 isn't perfectly adequate for. But it was her money, and she shoots it fine.

My biggest gripe with the RUM is the rifles; They do need the 26" barrels, but good lord, they're annoying to tote in the field. That extra 2" is the difference between snagging an occassional branch and getting caught on every friggin' tree in the forest.

Light weight bullets are what Lazzeroni loads in their overkill cartridges though.

I know. Doesn't make it any less stupid.......

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