What's the deal with the 25-06?


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Kachok
February 5, 2012, 10:33 AM
OK I am a bit confused, since I am looking for a new long range gun people have highly recomended the 25-06 and many have quoted loads with fps dramaticly higher then factory and even my reloading manual, especaly in the 100gr loads many people quoting 3500+fps (and a few over 3600) without pressure signs. This is about 300+fps faster then factory and about 200fps faster then the hottest loads listed in my nosler manual, while I have seen fps increases over published data before in nearly every cartrage, I have never seen so many people claiming such dramatic differences in any other caliber, what is so different about the 25-06?

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rg1
February 5, 2012, 10:46 AM
To get top velocities in 25-06 it does require at least a 26" barrel. My 24" barreled Rem 700 seems to match velocities in some manuals and I don't load maximum or above. I too see some reported velocity numbers that seem high. Depends on what you want to do with a long range rifle as to whether the 25-06 would be the best choice.

Kachok
February 5, 2012, 10:54 AM
300-500 yd beanfield whietail deer (120-200lbs southern deer). I was using a 270WSM but I let a friend borrow it and he feel in love with it, so I am selling it to him, I was thinking about getting another one but I was told a 25-06 would be all I needed within 500 yd (my personal limit when shooting at living things). I noticed that the 25-06 has a cult like following amongst handloads much like the 6.5x55 so I am thinking of giving it a shot. Many of the people who quoted 3500fps+ loads listed 24" barrels though a few had 26s and 28s

Peter M. Eick
February 5, 2012, 01:32 PM
rg1 has it right. 26" is the way to go. My Sendero is a 26 and when my 24" Ruger #1 burns out I will actually go for a 28".

I am torn between just getting a 257 Weatherby or 257 STW and really burning the barrel quick.

25/06 fans are a cult like, but we find the quarter bores are more fun to shoot and don't beat you up as much as the 7mm's or 30 cal magnums can.

Kachok
February 5, 2012, 01:57 PM
I am a long time 6.5 guy, I love the utter lack of recoil, but of the two calibers in 6.5s that can keep up with the WSM in trajectory one is a near dead (6.5 rem mag) and the other is amongst the worlds worst barrel burners ever (264 win mag) So I see the 25-06 being the best available option to match WSM trajectory with much less recoil. I don't think the deer will miss the extra .2mm :D

bangaway
February 5, 2012, 03:03 PM
My 28 inch custom 25-06 chrono.s 3502 fps with 100 gr. sierra flatbase bullets. IMR 4831 powder. No pressure sighns and will shoot faster. But why. Shot 30 deer with 28 shots. None took a step. H&R makes a stainless heavy barrel 26 inch 25-06. Should be a shooter and cheap to try out. have fun and bangaway.

Kachok
February 5, 2012, 03:38 PM
My problem with the H&R is the very mixed accuracy reports. I would love a 42" rifle with a 26" barrel if it were a shooter, all I need is one shot anyway. I am spoiled in the accuracy department, I have been shooting nothing but Savages and Tikkas for the past few years so anything shy of sub moa would be a letdown.

sage5907
February 5, 2012, 05:48 PM
kachok, a rifle with a 25-06 Remington chamber is great for hunting anything up to and including deer. I have been shooting them since 1965 and I currently own two of them. I went down the list of things such as improved chambers and longer barrels but have found that a 24 inch barrel is the most practical length for a hunter. They make a great lighweight scouting rifle. It is true that a handloader can get some fantastic velocities by loading to the top of the chart but I don't do that anymore. One problem with extreme velocities is that bullet performance is unpredictable. Some bullets open to fast and blow up on impact and some don't open at all and shoot a small hole through the intended target. Some of the worst performing bullets come from the most reputable companies. I finally settled on 100 grain bullets at about 3400 fps from my 24 inch barrels. Actually, the best all around load for a 25-06 is a 120 grain bullets at about 2900 fps. My 2 cents. BW

Kachok
February 5, 2012, 06:22 PM
I am not worried about bullet blow ups for two reasons, first of all I plan on using a 25-06 for my long range hunting seeing as I already have the perfect deer hunting rifle for the woods, secondly I have alot of faith in ballistic tips, they expand perfectly at mild 6.5x55 speeds and stay together at close rage max power 270 WSM speeds even striking bone!! Every single time they have turned lungs into bloody soup and passed through leaving a free bleeding golfball-softball sized exit wound. I don't think you could ever ask a bullet to perform better then that. You can bet the first batch of 25-06 I load will be 100 and 115gr BTs :)
I am not 100% sure yet but I think I am going to go with the X-Bolt Hunter, 24" barrel, solid reputation for accuracy, and wounderful egronomics for a small person like me.

Striker Fired
February 5, 2012, 08:16 PM
I had a Sendero and it shot great.I had several mule deer kills at 400yrds+ in Wyoming using 85gr Barnes. Switched to 270WSM for elk also,I can't go back to that looooong action anymore though. Ever look into the .25WSSM ?

Kachok
February 5, 2012, 09:16 PM
My gunsmith swears by his 25 WSSM but heck they are hard as heck to find anything chamberd in it anymore. My little 6.5x55 has every possable advantage over the WSSM except for the mauser length action of course.
My only concern with the 25-06 is that if it does not like 100gr pills it would have only a VERY slight edge over the 6.5x55, I can load 115gr BT 25-06 to about 3170fps and the 120gr BT 6.5x55 to only about a hundred fps below that, and they have nearly the same BC (slight edge to the 6.5) Now with hot 100s (and 85s) the smaller bore walks all over the 6.5 and pretty much everything else shy of the belted magnums.

Nullcone
February 5, 2012, 10:48 PM
Kachok said:

one is a near dead (6.5 rem mag)

If you're a reloader, this is meaningless... get one if you like the caliber.

the other is amongst the worlds worst barrel burners ever (264 win mag)

Says who? With what powder loaded to what pressure in what barrel with what kind of maintenance/cleaning? Control the variables and you will find no statistical difference among similar cartridges.

but of the two calibers in 6.5s that can keep up with the WSM in trajectory

Umm... what about the two flavors of 6.5x284? The many variations of 6.5-06?

I don't know how much variation from 270 WSM you are allowing for (or which bullet/load in particular), but if you're being reasonable add:

260 Rem
6.5x47
6.5 Creedmoor

And many others I'm sure exist.

It's just not "that" hard.

dsm
February 5, 2012, 10:55 PM
Case design on 25-06 is old and dated. Go with a short and fat case design for long range accuracy. The WSM's are the ticket or the 6.5x47, 6/6.5x284 etc.

Kachok
February 5, 2012, 11:25 PM
Kachok said:



If you're a reloader, this is meaningless... get one if you like the caliber.

Says who? With what powder loaded to what pressure in what barrel with what kind of maintenance/cleaning? Control the variables and you will find no statistical difference among similar cartridges.

Umm... what about the two flavors of 6.5x284? The many variations of 6.5-06?

I don't know how much variation from 270 WSM you are allowing for (or which bullet/load in particular), but if you're being reasonable add:

260 Rem
6.5x47
6.5 Creedmoor

And many others I'm sure exist.

It's just not "that" hard.
I would not have a problem reloading 6.5 Rem mag, but finding one other then the darn flame thrower (600 Carbine) is a pain in the butt, and finding one in good condition is a tall order. I have thought about building one on a savage short action and just swapping out the bolt face with one from a 7mm/300mag, but to be honest I have never built a rifle before and custom rifles cost big money.
6.5-06/6.5-284 are fantastic, but they are also custom setups except for the very long and heavy 6.5-284 111 Long Range Hunter. The 6.5-06 actualy has better ballistics then either the 25-06, 6.5-284, or 270win, shame nobody chambers it. This might suprise you but the 120 year old 6.5x55 can match everything the 260rem/6.5x47/6.5 Creedmoore can do, so they would be highly redundent. A few people have built 6.5 WSMs, but much like the .264 Win mag it would be highly overbore, and I am afraid it would also be a bad barrel burner, and yes the 264 is a scorcher, if I remember correctly the Nosler lab had to change barrels 4 times on their 264 devloping loads for their manual...YIKES They did not mention if they were chrome lined barrels or not but still yikes. The 6.5 Rem mag can match the performance of the 264 in shorter barrels burning less powder making for less throat errosion.

Striker Fired
February 5, 2012, 11:55 PM
the only other solution would be to get a gun that you like with a 26"barrel that comes chambered in a caliber that would allow you to rechamber it in say 25WSSM,or one of the others.Even if you have to cut an inch or two(preferably not if it is 24") you could then have the calib er of your choice but not be into a "custom" gun territory,though I don't know exactly how much it costs to rechaber such a gun.
Or find a good used gun and buy a replacement barrel made by Shilen or any of the other barrel makers.They would be more able to chamber it in whatever caliber desired plus length.

Kachok
February 6, 2012, 12:12 AM
It is easy enough to change out calibers on a savage because of the way they do their headspaceing (barrel nut) remove old barrel, insert new barrel, tighten barrel nut to 50lbs, but good replacement barrels cost around $300, more then what entry level savages cost LOL Now if I wanted to build a 6.5-284 or 6.5 Rem mag I would have to change the bolt face too. That is why I am looking at a 25-06 getting exactly what you want is never easy or cheap :( The 6.5s do make sence though, they have the best ballistics in the small caliber world by a good margin.

Kachok
February 6, 2012, 12:40 AM
Here is the basics of what I am saying. max loads of each from Noslers manual #6, all using Ballistic Tips of similar SD. All with 200yd zero. All messured with a 24" barrel
25-06 115gr@3170fps 500yd impact -35" 500yd energy 1202 ft/lbs
6.5-06 120gr@3294fps 500yd impact -32" 500yd energy 1382 ft/lbs
270win 130gr@3158fps 500yd impact -36" 500yd energy 1297 ft/lbs
Careful review of the science has shown that the 6.5mm bore is "ideal" for the 06 case volume, funny how marketing makes for gun sales not actual ballistics. Now to be fair that is with moden powders, I am sure in the 1920s when the 25-06 was invented that was very different with the old IMR powders.

joed
February 6, 2012, 06:05 AM
I've owned a .25-06 for 34 years, great caliber in my opinion. Mine has the 24" barrel which I feel is more practical for hunting. I use mine for varmint hunting shooting 85 gr bullets but have also used it for deer and even bear in Canada. If you like the lack of recoil in the .6.5 you'll love the .257 bore.

Some will say the .25 is to small for Elk. I never tried mine on anything that large. But if Bob Milek were still around I'm sure he'd disagree, he was a very big fan of the .25-06 for Elk.

The .25-06 is a dual purpose cartridge which can be used for varmints and medium sized game. Once you get one you start to see how versatile it really is.

Doesn't bother me that it's a long action. I own several rifles in short and long action, and I prefer the long action over short. Seems like any short action cartridges I own there is always a problem with length when using long bullets. I'll also disagree that the .25-06 case is old and dated, it's been around long enough that you have to say it has proven itself. If the WSM cartridges are still around in 90 years then I'll say they've proven themselves too. The WSM cartridges came out in 2001 I believe, a mere 11 years ago.

Using a chronograph I can tell you what I get for velocity from my 24" barrel. I've never pushed the 100 gr or 120 gr bullets to see how high a velocity I can get but do on the 85 gr.

85 gr 3600 fps
100 gr 3350 fps
120 gr 3100 fps

I looked at the 6.5mm years ago and am glad I went with the .257 bore instead. In fact 5 years ago I had the rifle rebarreled with a Krieger. When I was told I could get the new barrel in any chambering I wanted I thought about it for 2 seconds. Yep, the new barrel is .25-06.

Kachok
February 6, 2012, 04:22 PM
Yeah I don't have any plans on trying a 25cal of any variety on elk, some people swear by 120gr partitions for them, but I would load up some 140gr Partition or 160gr Weldcore in my 6.5x55 for them minimum, or mabey just get a bigger gun for that. The appeal to me of the 25-06 is it's super flat trajectory with 85-100gr bullets, which is ideal for varmint/yotes and our southern whitetails. As I said with 115-120gr it has only a slight ballistic advantage over a 6.5x55 in the same weight class because that is where the .25 cals limit out their 1:10 twist and where the 6.5s start to really shine with their 1:8 twist

Striker Fired
February 6, 2012, 04:32 PM
Isn't there an Ackley Improved for the 25-06? they usually up the potential from the parent case.

Kachok
February 6, 2012, 07:20 PM
Never loaded a 25-06 AI, handload data is scarce and none published to my knowlage, if it could throw a 115gr 3350-3400fps it would really have my attention. That would be as flat as my recently departed 270 WSM. I don't know though, AI cases are just a few percent more case volume, I don't think it could kick it up 150-200fps. The Wby mag could but expensive brass is a turn off.
Unverified loads on reloaders nest show the 25-06AI pushing 257Wby speeds, 3400fps w/115s and 3600fps w/100s in 26"-28" barrels, but this is data unreliable. The nice thing is that it seems to push 257 Wby speeds burning about 9-10gr less powder, so barrel errosion should be a tad less too. Never fire formed brass before though.

Eb1
February 6, 2012, 11:40 PM
115 Combined Technologies BT are the jimmy-jam for the .25-06

Striker Fired
February 6, 2012, 11:58 PM
Fire forming brass isn't bad in this case,you just load em a little light and fire normal,with the AI it is just pushing the shoulder out a bit.I believe one of the bigger things that bumps up the performance with AI cartridges is the better shoulder angle not the case volume.the shoulder creates a "swirl" in the flame and makes the powder burn more efficient, If I know what I'm talking about.:uhoh:
For load data,well,you just make your own:D Thats the fun of reloading. In rifle, I'm not as worried about getting into dangerous territory without seeing pressure signs first.Pistols are easier to go to far without good reliable signs.
It takes prudent and sloooooowww workup.

Kachok
February 7, 2012, 01:00 AM
I understand the principle of a swirl in a combustion chamber, same thing applies to an internal combustion engine. I don't see how a 40 degree shoulder starts that but I will roll with it.

Nullcone
February 7, 2012, 03:06 AM
the shoulder creates a "swirl" in the flame and makes the powder burn more efficient

one of the bigger things that bumps up the performance with AI cartridges is the better shoulder angle

the principle of a swirl in a combustion chamber, same thing applies to an internal combustion engine

Puh-leaze.

How are you measuring (or seeing any effect of) this "swirl" in 60KPSI gas? What kind of relationship does the "swirl" have with regards to shoulder angle? What about the boundary conditions of 0 degrees (straight wall case) and 90 degrees (either a funny looking case with very sharp shoulders or imagine a straight wall case with a saboted bullet)?

Come to think of it, what about a shoulder angle >90 degrees? Maybe some gas will get trapped and you will have to shake it out before you tumble the fired cases?

In an ICE you need to mix fuel and air (not so, obviously, in a cartridge), and the gas velocities are WAY lower than in our example.

The "improved" performance from the AI wildcats is:

Maybe 10% from the larger capacity, blown out case.

The rest is from the "I don't have a strain gauge to measure pressure and there is no factory ammo to compare it to*, so I load it to the gunwales or until it blows up, whichever comes first" syndrome.

Kachok, if you spend 10% of the time you are spending agonizing over this rifle choice practicing with whatever you actually end up with you are going to be a freaking ninja assassin in the field :)

I know, it's all good fun.

*Not 100% correct as Nosler is loading 280 AI and I'm sure there are others I am not aware of.

joed
February 7, 2012, 08:16 AM
A friend tried to talk me into the ai 25-06 but I declined. That cartridge just doesn't need more powder.

Kachok
February 7, 2012, 10:25 AM
Puh-leaze.

How are you measuring (or seeing any effect of) this "swirl" in 60KPSI gas? What kind of relationship does the "swirl" have with regards to shoulder angle? What about the boundary conditions of 0 degrees (straight wall case) and 90 degrees (either a funny looking case with very sharp shoulders or imagine a straight wall case with a saboted bullet)?

Kachok, if you spend 10% of the time you are spending agonizing over this rifle choice practicing with whatever you actually end up with you are going to be a freaking ninja assassin in the field :)

I know, it's all good fun.

*Not 100% correct as Nosler is loading 280 AI and I'm sure there are others I am not aware of.
Well the swirl effect does work in an internal combustion engine becasue it prevents the formation of "hot spots" in the combustion chamber preventing detonation, and it improves the fuel air mixture by making it more even throughout. I would think that a similar effect could be helpful in centerfire cartrages, by creating a more even combustion minimizing fps spread. Swirl polishing is easy enough on intake vlaves but I don't see how you could do it on the inside of your brass LOL.
What are you talking about I AM A NINJA ASSASSIN IN THE FIELD :D LOL In all reality I have never missed a shot when hunting, and nothing I have ever shot has needed a followup. That is because I studie internal, external and terminal ballistics like I have some kind of OCD dissorder. I am pretty good at cars too. I would spend more time at the range, but the only high power rifle range "nearby" is a little over an hour drive, and expensive to boot.

Striker Fired
February 7, 2012, 01:15 PM
Ever hear the word HEMI? Ya, Also why sparkplugs in the middle of the chamber usually ignites best.
The effect I'm thinking about maybe in the WSM & WSSM style cases.There was a article from winchester's developement of those cartridges it had a drawing that showed how the primer flame could go up and hit the base of the bullet and curl around the shoulder back toward the base.The shoulder angle was specific to do it best. Makes more power with less powder.Something on that order was what I was thinking the AI did also,don't know,been a long time since I got into the Ackley stuff.

Kachok
February 7, 2012, 02:06 PM
Hemi heads with sparkplugs in the center of the head are a tradeoff, more complete combustion, but at the cost of some compression, your ultra high compression NA engines are mostly wedge head to make use of the air movement across the hotsopts as internal cooling to maximize possable compression. Though that is changing now with the widespread use of direct injection and more strict emmissions standards. Shape of combustion chamber and fine tuning of ignition can make all the difference in the world. That goes for engines and cartrages, that is why I do put some stock in the WSMs more efficient design, if you compare the 270 WSM vs the 270 Wby you will find that the WSM can actualty run neck and neck with the Wby burning alot less powder. I have posted that breakdown several times before.

Striker Fired
February 7, 2012, 04:30 PM
They made up for the loss of compression by dumping another couple fl. oz. of nitromethane per stroke.:D
You were talking about some using 115gr for elk ,a few years ago in Wyoming I ran into a local couple on horseback,they were hunting elk.I talked a bit to them and noticed the smallish cartridges in a leather strap,I asked about them,they were .243.both were shooting elk with .243,he claimed less than 100yrds through the lungs will kill em! That is pushing it to me. I'm sure it can be done,but so can wounding one.

Kachok
February 7, 2012, 07:31 PM
I went gun shopping today looking for the parent action for my project, I found a new Savage 110 (30-06) Package deal for under $400, I am no expert at building project guns, but it would be hard to beat the 110 action, the idiotproof barrel nut headspaceing, free floating barrel, and floating bolt face make accuracy easier then most for sure, the accutrigger does not hurt either plus they have a strong aftermarket. I figure I can use the package (Bushnell) scope for a .22 or something. Best recoil pad I have ever seen on a factory gun too.

41 Mag
February 8, 2012, 05:15 AM
Kachok,

I have to say that the 25-06 has been my sweetheart caliber for quite a few years. Maybe not as long as some but long enough to have been able to wring out plenty of different loads in order to know what works, and works well. There are not as many weights in this caliber as in some but the ones there are will cover your needs up to and including elk if needed.

This said, perhaps the best of both worlds can be had using the 110gr Nosler Accubond, and/or the 115gr Partition. With either of these you will be able to get your velocities up in the 3100-3200fps range easily and with no major issue regarding pressures. They will both shot flat enough you should easily be able use a duplex retical to precisely place shots out to 400yds.

With my standard version I have been shooting almost the same load for close to 20yrs and haven't seen much it couldn't handle. I used the 115gr Partition loaded over RL-22 for 3150fps out of the factory Remington 24" tube. For whitetail it is simply a non issue when placed in the shoulder region. This particular rifle also shoots the 100gr and 115gr Barnes X, Partition, and the Ballistic Tip all into less than 2" combined at 200yds. The individual groups are equal to the one posted below. I have taken a skunk at 285yds with a head shot using the Barnes, and whacked a yote at just over 350 one morning sitting atop a wobbly tri-pod stand using the Partition. I do admit however I missed the exact spot I was aiming by about an inch, and instead of hitting him right between the eyes I managed to hit just below his left eye. I felt this HAD to be due to the stand wobbling in the breeze however, as I know it couldn't have been me.:D I never really liked the BT as it just seemed to be a bit more explosive than I felt was needed on deer, and for a hog was simply like hitting them with a grenade. With the 100gr bullets I found nothing better than IMR-4831, and as mentioned with the heavier ones I used RL-22. There might be better powders for individual rifles, but overall, you will find the majority of accurate loads used by folks will be with these powders and there has to be some reason for that.

I decided a few years back to pass this rifle over to my daughter, since we usually fought over it anyway, and in the process, I picked up a box of the then new 110gr Accubonds. While my bud and I were shooting one afternoon I decided to give them a try and simply swapped 5 of them out for the Partition changing nothing else. We actually had to ride out to the target to see that they all went through the same somewhat enlarged hole at 200yds. Since then she and my grandson have used them to take some nice deer from our property over the past 4-5yrs.

Here is a shot of my grandson's first group past 100yds. He was simply shooting up some old ammo I had sitting around for it to get in some trigger time. I had the target set up at 235yds due to working on a max point blank zero with another rifle.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Shooting/P4220197.jpg

After he managed to run a few dozen rounds through it, we moved the target out to 250 so I could check the zero on it with the hunting loads. I cleaned it, and fired one fouler and two for group. The wind was bumping along at around 15 or so and gusting up a bit more that day so I didn't bother with adjusting the scope. For the most part I felt it was about as good as I had left it the previous season. This is the 110gr Accubond loaded over the RL-22 load I also use for the 115gr. I have checked the velocity several times and it is consistent at or around the 3250fps mark.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Shooting/P4220201.jpg

The year I passed that rifle over to the daughter I built my 25-06 AI. I had been wanting one for quite a while and this gave me a good excuse. I found a donor 30-06, ordered a Broughton 5C 28" 1-9 #4 barrel for it and when finished up it was definitely much more rifle than my previous standard version. I went with the faster twist in order to use up some Wildcat 125 and 130gr bullets I had, and had hoped to be able to get some 142gr that I also had, to shoot. The latter however simply can't be pushed fast enough to stabilize. This didn't bother me too much however as the standard 120 through the custom 130's will all shoot as good as the above rifle does out to 300yds.

I managed to find a source who had a bunch of the old Remington 120gr CL's, and purchased a bunch of them simply to use them for FF loads, but after finding out how well they group, I am now using them as my standard bullet. I haven't had this one out as much as I did the other, but I did manage to get this small hog at 275yds with an ear hole shot, resting over the hood of the truck in my back pasture. I was using the 125gr Wildcat,
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Hunting%202010/P3070086.jpg

I then got this ol brute the following weekend in similar fashion but offhand at about 110yds. He hit the ground so fast I actually thought I missed him as he was headed into the brush. This one was using the 120gr Remington.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Hunting%202010/P3060072.jpg

I had my doubts on how the Remington held up, but when we dressed him out it was plain to see that the 3350fps muzzle velocity wasn't going to be a factor with these bullets. Here is the one I recovered from the hogs above.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Hunting%202010/P3060084.jpg
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Hunting%202010/P3060085.jpg
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Hunting%202010/P3060083.jpg

There are a few more pics in my 2010 Hunting album at the bottom link under my sig, which show a few more of the hog and the damage done by the CL, as well as a few with the daughter and grandsons deer they got with the standard version with the laminate stock.

I am hopeful that the AI version will serve me as well as the standard version did, and if I were to do anything differently I would stick with the standard 1-10 twist. I believe it would allow a tad more velocity with equal loads and a bit less pressure. This said I simply used the standard load data and worked up incrementally measuring cases, watching primers, and velocities as I went. I did find what the max was with the powders I worked with and also the bullets I had chosen to use before I managed to blow anything apart. I can say this however, the 3350fps with the 120gr is plenty safe in this particular rifle. I have gotten over a dozen loads from the initial 20 cases I picked out of 100I have FF'ed, which have shown no signs of primer pocket looseness. To me that in of it's self is a testament to the particular load I am using.

Good luck with your build, I doubt that once you get it done you will have much if any issue finding a great shooting load. The hard part is deciding on which one to settle on.

Kachok
February 8, 2012, 02:13 PM
^ Nice data :) I think I would use a Partition at that kind of speed, but if CLs work for you stick with it. I still don't understand the how the 25-06 can vary so much in speed, reloading manuals are consistanlty much slower then what handloaders swear are safe loads in their rifles.

joed
February 8, 2012, 08:35 PM
Mine has no magic spell on it when it comes to speed. I've seen 3400 fps advertised for the 87 gr with IMR4350 and mine got just below that. Then came RL19, with this one I can hit over 3500 fps. A friend uses RL17 and gets 3660 fps from his. Mine is just a little slower at 3600 fps but I haven't pushed it beyond this load yet.

When I first got my rifle I tried to go beyond published loads with very little luck. So when someone claims some really outrageous speed take it with a grain of salt. Mine now has a new Krieger barrel and I haven't tried to push it yet.

The RL powders by Alliant offer more speed then IMR and I get better accuracy. I've left the IMR powders for the RL series now.

The 100 gr seems to have a speed advantage and I've seen many shoot the 100 gr faster then the 87 gr, figure that one. Mine would move the 100 gr as fast as the 87 gr but I always stayed with the 87 gr for varmint and coyote.

The 75 gr was a speed demon at 3750 fps but just didn't work. I noticed it ran out of steam at 300 yards. I could hit ground hogs with it but it didn't kill them instantly like the 87 gr did.

41 Mag
February 9, 2012, 04:40 AM
Kachok,

When I worked up the load for the 115gr and RL-22, I used the data for a 117gr listed in I believe the Hornady 4th Edition manual, it listed the Remington 700 with a 24" barrel as the test rifle. Since this is what mine is I figured I would give it a try. I did not surpass the top listed load for this powder, and the velocity is where the book said it should be, which isn't very common to be.

For my 100gr loads, I played with several powders, but never got the overall accuracy out of any other that I got from the IMR-4831 with the three different bullets I used. At the time I was playing with several rifles and several different bullets, and wanted to find a powder for each that would shoot the Barnes X, the Partition, and the Ballistic Tip all with one powder and one load. While I managed to have some success, with the 25-06 and IMR-4831, the only 100gr bullet I found that would not stay in the above mentioned 2" cluster, was the Sierra. With it I did eventually get it to shoot the same tiny groups as the others but I had to switch to IMR-4350 in order to do so. My velocities for all of these bullets never exceeded 3375fps at 15' from the muzzle. In fact the average for everything I kept records on was just about 3350fps on the nose with a SD of around 25.

I have used the same load with several makes of brass and not found much if any difference in groups. The mainstay of my cases are Remington, but I also use just about as many Winchester. No matte the case, I have always used WIn-WLR primers and not had any issues with getting them lit.

I tried several 120gr bullets in that rifle, but for what ever reason once I hit the 2900 - 2950fps range, I also hit flattened primers. It seemed to make no difference which powder I used, or what my seating depth was, they simply didn't want to get any faster. While this isn't anything major, there was plenty of accuracy from the ones I DID develope but the Speer was the top dog. It was the only one which could equal the tiny clover leaf groups of the lighter ones.

Don't sweat what you read about this that or the other fellows velocity. Trust me when I say, load to the books, and load for accuracy, and you will not be disappointed. For the ranges your looking to use it at, pick a good mid weight bullet, and go have fun. There are 115 - 117gr bullets being made by just about every manufacturer, that will get you where you want to be with very respectable velocities. Stick with the medium slow powders, and you will find hitting a good combination much easier.

Good luck.

BrainOnSigs
February 9, 2012, 06:35 AM
My favorite pronghorn caliber! Perfect for 100-400 yard shots.

I took my last buck at 300 yards using my Cooper Model 54 Excalibur in .25-06 (hand load). He dropped straight down.

My buck:

http://brainonsigs.smugmug.com/Other/2010-Pronghorn/Pronghorn-1/1035172959_5ahNp-XL.jpg

My load:

Winchester brass
Remington 9-1/2 primer
100 gr Sierra Pro Hunter SP bullet (#1620)
52 grs of Hodgdon H4831SC powder

It will shoot 3/8" groups all day long at 100 yards.

http://brainonsigs.smugmug.com/Other/Things-that-go-BANG/Target-1/1141714094_V8dXT-S.jpg

quartermaster
February 16, 2012, 10:12 PM
I'm not sure how I missed this thread before. I don't know what gives the 25-06 the velocity over the published in the reloading manuals. I had 3 of them. One is a Rem BDL, 1 is a Rem SPS and one was a Rem Mountain rifle. The Mountain rifle action is now being used to make an Ackley. When I got the BDL around 1991 and started loading for it, the max load listed in the Lyman 47th for IMR 4831 was I believe 56 grains. I worked my way up to that and managed to get 3425 fps out of it and very accurate groups consistantly with 100 gr ballistic tips .010 off the lands. The primers started to show a slight fattening at that point. I'm pretty sure that this rifle has a 24" tube. I kept that load for quite a few years loading 100 at a time, but found myself having to seat the bullets out a bit further as time went on due to what I figure is throat erosion. I now backed the powder off to 55 grains and if my memory serves me correctly, I think I am getting around 3350 with it and the accuracy is still superb. My SPS started showing pressure signs before the max load with the same 100 grain head. I think I'm at 3250 with that and also very accurate

I don't want to get into the inherently accurate caliber topic, but everyone that I know who has one, loves it. I wouldn't hesitate to reccomend to anyone to get that caliber.

I've never compared the difference between the 6.5-06 and the 25, I may do that later, but it would seem to me that they should be similar given the same case and a head with a .007 difference in diameter. I guess the bullet selection is much better with the .264.

I stuck a post on your last thread about the Ackleys. I hope you let us in on your decision when you make it. Wouldn't it be nice if we hit the lottery?

I see 41Mag had a post on this thread. I got a lot of good info from him on the 25-06 Ackley after I ordered mine. He must have a barrel with a bit faster twist than normal as he gets 130 grain heads or has a friend that does. Reading his posts and checking out his pics, you can tell he didn't just get off the turnip boat.

I believe you can find data in the Sierra manual for the Ackley and also on reloaders nest.

I think all of your choices of calibers that you are contemplating are good ones. It's tough making some of these decision isn't it? Then you have to figure what twist, barrel contour, stock, trigger and so on. It's fun. Just do it. You only live once!

Good luck with whatever you decide.

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