Blown Primers Damaged My Revolver?


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rod5591
February 5, 2012, 10:37 PM
In 2007 I bought 4 boxes of Winchester Super X .357 Mag 157 GR JHP

Today I tried to shoot a box and about 30 rounds into the box my S&W .357 jammed. The firing pin was melted and fused to the primer.

It turns out my ammo was not Winchester it was reloads. The primer melted my firing pin, I have to send it back to S&W to fix. Below is my order info.

What would you do if you were me? I am PISSED :cuss:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Winchester® Super-X® Handgun .357 Magnum 158 Gr. JHP 50 rds.
Product: WX2-13954
In Stock.
Quantity: 4, Unit Price: $31.32, Total Price: $125.28
Adult Signature and Receipt Service is required.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Winchester® USA Pistol .38 Special 130 Gr. FMJ 50 rds.
Product: WX2-12044
In Stock.
Quantity: 2, Unit Price: $12.80, Total Price: $25.60
Adult Signature and Receipt Service is required.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Payment Information:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Merchandise Total: $150.88
Shipping and Handling: $17.99
Shipping Method: [Ground]
Coupon: [SPG2068] - $10.00
Adult Signature: $2.00
---------------------------------------------==============-----------
Grand Total: $160.87

Enjoy the outdoors!

========================================
To contact us via Postal Mail write to:
S. G. Customer Service, 411 Farwell Ave., So. St. Paul, MN 55075-9876

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fatcat4620
February 6, 2012, 12:05 AM
How can you prove it was reloads?

Zombiphobia
February 6, 2012, 12:32 AM
you're just now using ammo you bought in 2007? Did you inspect all of the boxes when you received it?

JRH6856
February 6, 2012, 12:56 AM
Maybe sometime during the past 5 years, gremlins got in and reloaded it all. Gremlins are sneaky little things.

rod5591
February 6, 2012, 08:18 AM
how can i prove they are reloads? 1) There is no sealant, 2) Some of the primers are set above the level of the cartridge, 3) THEY melted the firing pin and ruined my gun

that's how i know

Sam1911
February 6, 2012, 08:26 AM
1) There is no sealant
What sealant? Most manufacturers don't apply sealants to their cartridges.

2) Some of the primers are set above the level of the cartridge
That kind of stinks, as a quality-control issue, but doesn't prove these are reloads.

3) THEY melted the firing pin and ruined my gun How does a primer melt your firing pin? Are you saying that the primers blew out? Or that they cratered and flowed into your firing pin aperture, jamming the gun? Or is your firing pin literally damaged? As it stands the statement doesn't make sense. Primers don't even get very hot. No where near to steel-melting temps. If the fire contained by the cartridge on firing was hot enough for long enough duration to melt steel, your barrel wouldn't be long for this world, either. So something else is going on.

Even one primer blowing out is not enough to damage a gun. Most of us have had it happen from time to time and the guns still work just fine.

Have you got the gun apart now? Can you take pictures of any of this? If the gun is "ruined" there must be some physical damage we could look at.

Have you contacted Winchester with the part numbers and lot numbers of the ammo? If there is any measurable issue with the remaining ammo, they'll replace it, and probably throw in an extra box or two for your trouble.

Double Naught Spy
February 6, 2012, 10:09 AM
How does a primer melt your firing pin? Are you saying that the primers blew out? Or that they cratered and flowed into your firing pin aperture, jamming the gun? Or is your firing pin literally damaged? As it stands the statement doesn't make sense. Primers don't even get very hot. No where near to steel-melting temps. If the fire contained by the cartridge on firing was hot enough for long enough duration to melt steel, your barrel wouldn't be long for this world, either. So something else is going on.

Right. If the primer melted the firing pin, then the primer and cartridge would have been a mess before the firing pin melted.

Rod, you have pics to show us, yes?

briansmithwins
February 6, 2012, 10:29 AM
You can have popped primers cause gas cutting to the firing pin or its orifice.

I suspect what's actually going on is Winchester is having QC problems (again) and thier ammo caused his revolver to malfunction. Not that there is a conspiracy to substitute crap reloads for new ammo.

BSW

Sam1911
February 6, 2012, 10:56 AM
You can have popped primers cause gas cutting to the firing pin or its orifice.
In 30 rounds? Ok, I doubt it, but maybe.

So, lets have a look at the cases. Did 30 primers actually pierce and blow through? If so, I'd also want to take a look at the projection of his firing pin. Becomes a "chicken and the egg" sort of question. Primers getting pierced is generally a sign of the FP being longer than spec.

I suspect what's actually going on is Winchester is having QC problems (again) and thier ammo caused his revolver to malfunction. Not that there is a conspiracy to substitute crap reloads for new ammo.
Very likely so. But "causing a malfunction" and "ruined my gun" are two very different things.

Jackal
February 8, 2012, 09:07 PM
I want to see pictures too. I have been a victim of crap factory ammo myself. 1 box of Remington .45acp had 1 round that had no rim and a box of Tula .40s&w had a squib load that stuck in the barrel (boom, boom, pop, STOP!). Is the head stamp the same on the troubled rounds? It does sound like a quality control issue with Winchester. Although, I would not entirely rule out someone maybe pinching a few rounds of ammo from work (Sportsmans Guide)....Maybe replace them with reloads? I am not suggesting that occurred in any way and it is VERY unlikely, but stranger things have happened.

drsfmd
February 9, 2012, 09:44 AM
This one doesn't pass the smell test.

There's not a reload on this planet hot enough to MELT a firing pin. Just can't happen. As someone else pointed out, gas & fire erosion is real, but it takes a lot more rounds than this, and causes tiny pits to develop over a long period.

Sam1911
February 9, 2012, 09:48 AM
Well, the OP hasn't been back since Monday, and without pictures and more information I don't see anything more we can do here.

I'm going to close this for now. Rod, when you do get back with some pictures, please send me a PM and I'll open this back up for further discussion.

rod5591
February 14, 2012, 09:57 AM
Sorry I was late responding, I am really tied up with work a lot these days. I have pics to post that might help identify what the problem was. I do appreciate the members taking their time to respond.

These pics show a few of the fired rounds and the remains of the firing pin, as well as different views of some unfired rounds. The gunsmith I took the gun to said the rounds were reloads, and that they damaged the firing pin to the point that it would no longer work.

Is his analysis correct, do you think? If so what should I do? It seems wrong that factory ammo (or reloads sold as factory ammo) would damage the gun.

I bought the gun about 5 years ago. I've only put about 500 rounds through it.

rod5591
February 14, 2012, 10:10 AM
here are some more pics of the ammo that ate my gun

Sam1911
February 14, 2012, 10:26 AM
[I've moved this into the gunsmithing section where it will be seen by more and more knowledgeable members, and changed the title for clarity.]

rod5591
February 14, 2012, 10:39 AM
the ammo box . sorry it is blurred

rod5591
February 14, 2012, 10:41 AM
another view of the winchester super x 357 mag 158 gr JHP ammo.

Carl N. Brown
February 14, 2012, 10:44 AM
Am I correct in reading the two on the right as grossly over pressure?

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=159034&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1329230923

rod5591
February 14, 2012, 10:45 AM
last pic. the gunsmith says they are likely reloads......

thanks for your input. I am planning on sending the gun back to S&W since the gunsmith says that S&W firing pins are not available except through S&W factory...is this true???

Sam1911
February 14, 2012, 10:52 AM
Numrich has S&W firing pins: http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Products.aspx?catid=10089

$6.00

That one's for a 686 (L-frame). What model is your gun?

Sam1911
February 14, 2012, 10:54 AM
Am I correct in reading the two on the right as grossly over pressure?

Those do look hot, being flattened like that. But if the FP protruded too far and punctured the primer, I don't know what they'd look like.

Mizar
February 14, 2012, 10:54 AM
Why the breech insert has a wide recess cut on it? This is not normal. I think that this is your problem, not the ammo.

Boris

NCsmitty
February 14, 2012, 11:01 AM
It certainly looks like two of the three rounds have pierced primers and excessive pressure, but no reason to believe that they are reloads.
It looks to me like a QC issue with the Winchester ammo.
It's likely that your firing pin had the tip broken, as it would take a lot of pierced primers to erode or "melt" a firing pin.


NCsmitty

MtnCreek
February 14, 2012, 11:03 AM
The two to the right do look like they are way over pressure. The primers flowed outward before the pressure finally burst the cup. If they were not over pressure, then I suppose the primer cup could have been abnormally soft.

It's hard to tell from the photos, but it looks like there is a clear primer sealant used. Is this consistent with Win Super X factory ammo?

MtnCreek
February 14, 2012, 11:10 AM
I have some Win 357 nickle brass that I've reloaded once w/ a good (low rd count) carbide die. I'll try to look at them tonight to see if the die made any visible marks on the cases. The photos above do not show any signs of being re-sized. If they are re-loads, someone did a damn fine job of belling the cases just right... Looks like factory ammo to me.

Edit: The Win 357 nickle reloads of mine show slight markings where the die stopped sizing approx. 0.030 above the head. Sized w/ low rd count RCBS carbide die. I would think any die would make similar markings.

The Lone Haranguer
February 14, 2012, 12:51 PM
Today I tried to shoot a box and about 30 rounds into the box my S&W .357 jammed. The firing pin was melted and fused to the primer.

:eek: I had heard of worn firing pins or the frame bushing they pass through causing the primer to flow into the firing pin hole, but not that.

It turns out my ammo was not Winchester it was reloads. The primer melted my firing pin,
That must be a seriously hot flame to melt steel.

powell&hyde
February 14, 2012, 01:37 PM
While the 2 cases on the right definitely show signs of excessive pressure, the one on the left looks ok. What puzzles me is how your smith would know that they were handloads?

Is it possible given the amount of time span (5 Years) that (If) you roll your own you might have put your reloads in the Win box?? If not, make sure you document everything as far as date, time, copies of your receipt.

rod5591
February 14, 2012, 09:38 PM
Numrich has S&W firing pins: http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Products.aspx?catid=10089

$6.00

That one's for a 686 (L-frame). What model is your gun?


It's a 686 K frame.

newfalguy101
February 14, 2012, 09:46 PM
Ammo purchased 5 years ago??


Nothing you CAN do except get on da innanet and post about your misfortune :uhoh:

rod5591
February 14, 2012, 09:49 PM
While the 2 cases on the right definitely show signs of excessive pressure, the one on the left looks ok. What puzzles me is how your smith would know that they were handloads?

Is it possible given the amount of time span (5 Years) that (If) you roll your own you might have put your reloads in the Win box?? If not, make sure you document everything as far as date, time, copies of your receipt.

as best I can recall, he said because 1) they didn't have any sealant around the primer (he showed me some rounds with red sealant) and 2) they were crimped and Winchester doesn't crimp.

It would be easier to explain if I knew anything much about ammo I think, but it must be apparent to you all that I don't really know that much......:rolleyes:

rod5591
February 14, 2012, 09:53 PM
It certainly looks like two of the three rounds have pierced primers and excessive pressure, but no reason to believe that they are reloads.
It looks to me like a QC issue with the Winchester ammo.
It's likely that your firing pin had the tip broken, as it would take a lot of pierced primers to erode or "melt" a firing pin.


NCsmitty
what would break the tip of the firing pin?

rod5591
February 14, 2012, 09:55 PM
what would it take to replace the firing pin? I'd rather not send it back to S&W if I don't have to.

rod5591
February 14, 2012, 09:56 PM
Ammo purchased 5 years ago??


Nothing you CAN do except get on da innanet and post about your misfortune :uhoh:
what bothers me is that I jumped to conclusions and badmouthed Sportsman Guide for selling me reloads instead of factory new ammo without really knowing what i was talking about...........

rod5591
February 14, 2012, 10:01 PM
Wish I could figure out what’s going on. So far my possible choices are:

1) bad reloads
2) bad factory ammo
3) breech insert has a wide recess cut on it
4) firing pin protruding too much
5) none of the above

any votes on which of the above is the problem?

IMtheNRA
February 14, 2012, 10:04 PM
Rod, I don't see any primer crimp on these rounds. It is also unlikely that Winchester would have used primer sealant. I think your gunsmith is wrong when he says these are reloads.

Mizar I

s on to something in his post. Did you buy the gun new or used?

egg250
February 14, 2012, 10:41 PM
Rod, have you contacted Winchester with the lot number of the ammo to determine what may have happened? It could be:

- QC issues at the factory and that lot number was recalled
- Someone sold Sportsman Guide reloads packaged as factory rounds
- Perhaps you mixed up some "other" ammo and put it in the Winchester boxes (things happen over the years)

You could pull the remaining rounds down and weigh the powder charges for consistency. Good luck.

Jim K
February 14, 2012, 11:00 PM
None of the above. Almost without exception, "pierced" primers are caused by failure of the firing pin to support the primer after ignition, with the result that the internal pressure blows back the hammer, then blows a disc out of the primer and into the firing pin hole, leaving a neat round hole in the primer.

I suspect you did some work on that gun in the way of backing out the strain screw, trimming down the mainspring (hammer spring), or lightening the hammer.

I also suspect the reason your gun won't fire is that a bunch of those little discs are jammed up in front of the hammer.

Jim

Scimmia
February 14, 2012, 11:34 PM
Rod, do you know of any reloaders near you? You can have them pull one of the unfired rounds apart. If there's soot on the inside of the case, they're definitely reloads. If not, it's unlikely they're reloads, although possible.

The outside of the cases does not show any visible signs of being reloaded, no sizing marks and no bullet stretch. Winchester does not put sealant on their primers, and they do crimp in the bullet, I don't know of any manufacturer of handgun rounds that doesn't use some type of crimp.

Shimitup
February 15, 2012, 12:14 AM
I think Mizar is on to it, the retainer bushing for the firing pin is not normal. It appears to have set back which would cause the the primer to flare out much like a rifle with headspace issues. I'm just going to hazard a guess that the bushing was not properly seated either at the factory or by a gun hacker. If you bought it new I'm sure S&W will take care of it. Those cartridges do not look like reloads to me. No variations in the reflection off the case showing that a die has ever been there, usually you can see a slight bend above the case web or tiny scratches in the nickel, I see none.

Good luck, I hope you resolve things.

P.S. Here's a recall notice just in case yours is one of these.
http://firearmsid.com/Recalls/FA_Recalls%205.htm

FROGO207
February 15, 2012, 12:14 AM
I have seen the exact thing with the primer disks stuck in the firing pin hole a couple times. If you did not modify the revolver someone else may have done it before you got the revolver. Do you have a different "local" smith to take it to?? Not all smiths are complete experts with everything or every brand and your guy may be short in this matter. You may not want to take it apart yourself having stated your limited experience and an experienced smith would make short work of the job. One versed in the S&W K frame would know what the specs were to make sure it is returned to factory weight without need for the trip back to the factory. I also am thinking that the ammo may have been suspect as well so contact Winchester about it. I think that Jim K is on the money with the answer. Hope you can find someone local soon.

Sam1911
February 15, 2012, 07:59 AM
It's a 686 K frame. Well, no. I know it isn't that. If it is a 686, it is an "L" frame.

If it is a "K" frame, then it is something like a Model 19 or Model 66.

Salmoneye
February 15, 2012, 08:12 AM
I imagine his confusion is that K frame grips fit L frames, and vice versa...

Double Naught Spy
February 15, 2012, 10:11 AM
Wow, this example has seemingly spurred an excessive amount of conflicting information.

brickeyee
February 15, 2012, 03:29 PM
In 30 rounds? Ok, I doubt it, but maybe.

Even the first leak can cause gas cutting.

Do it enough times and it just gets easier to see, but every one of the leaks can cause cutting.

Old Dog Man
February 15, 2012, 06:23 PM
Looking at the picture of the frame, it appears that the firing pin bushing is recessed below the recoil surface. If that is the case the primer does not have the support it should have and is letting the primers blow back out of the shell casing. Put a straight edge across the frame and you can tell if that is the case. Al

Jim K
February 15, 2012, 07:54 PM
That bushing looks perfectly normal for the new Smiths. It looks like it should give problems, but it doesn't, or at least it hasn't on my guns.

Jim

armarsh
February 15, 2012, 11:14 PM
Well, this is from 2007. Maybe this is really early Winclean ammo? That would explain the flat primers.

rod5591
February 16, 2012, 12:16 AM
Did you buy the gun new or used?

i bought it new. And I never did anything with it except kept it loaded in a drawer for 5 years, then I ran a mix of ammo through it but not more than a few hundred rounds.

rod5591
February 16, 2012, 12:23 AM
my invoice says S&W 686-6 purchased 7/23/05

I guess it is an L frame at that based on pics. here is mine , full view.

rod5591
February 16, 2012, 12:26 AM
I suspect you did some work on that gun in the way of backing out the strain screw, trimming down the mainspring (hammer spring), or lightening the hammer.



Jim
no I never did anything to the gun at all except fire it a few hundred times

rod5591
February 16, 2012, 12:33 AM
If you did not modify the revolver someone else may have done it before you got the revolver. Do you have a different "local" smith to take it to?? Not all smiths are complete experts with everything or every brand and your guy may be short in this matter.

I bought it new and never modified it. I don't have a local smith, But I read the pamphlet that came with the gun and there is a S&W authorized smith about 40 miles from here. I guess I will start there.

earplug
February 16, 2012, 12:40 AM
Contact Winchester about the ammo.
Give them the pictures.
If this is a firing pin in the frame model 686. Contact a company like Brownels or Midway and order a new firing pin. Its not rocket science to replace.
I had a Old M-27 that I tried to work up the classic Elmer Kieth load of 14 grains of 2400. On my gun I pierced the primers and it ruined my firing pin at 13 grains. This was on the old hammer mounted firing pin guns.
I have never heard of this problem caused by a light hammer spring. If this was true, more people would complain about firing pin problems after trying for ultra light DA action jobs. The numerous PPC, ICORE, USPSA and Bullseye shooters would support this.
Sometimes all the grains of powder fall on the wrong side of your day. For every squib, there is some extra powder floating around.

MtnCreek
February 16, 2012, 07:55 AM
Have you contacted Win about this ammo?

Jim K
February 16, 2012, 12:23 PM
Giving this business another thought, and wonder if one of the cases with a spread primer could be decapped to look at the flash hole. An oversize flash hole can let high pressure back into the primer pocket and that could flatten the primer and drive back the hammer/firing pin to cause the "pierced" primers. Also, pull the bullets on some of those rounds and see if the powder and weight can be identified. I don't recall seeing factory ammo of late with brass (unplated) primers, but then I don't buy much factory ammo.

Earplug, so-called pierced primers are almost always the result of a light hammer/firing pin spring or a lightweight hammer/firing pin. What happens is that there is just enough energy to fire the primer, but not enough momentum to remain in the primer until the pressure drops. The result is that the internal pressure in the primer itself (not from the main powder charge) forces the primer metal back and without the firing pin in the primer, a disc of metal is driven back into the firing pin hole. In most such cases, the primer will appear otherwise normal. But here we have severely flattened primers in addition to the hole, so I think something more needs to be looked at.

Jim

Scimmia
February 16, 2012, 02:55 PM
I don't recall seeing factory ammo of late with brass (unplated) primers, but then I don't buy much factory ammo.

That's typical for Winchester. Winchester used to be plated way back when, but they stopped to improve sensativity. 2007 would have been unplated for sure.

BSA1
February 18, 2012, 05:12 PM
Rod,

The first thing I would is send the box along with all of unfired and fired rounds to Winchester with a detailed letter about what happened. If Winchester determines the ammunition is faulty they will replace it. You could also ask they pay for the repairs to your gun.

Sending the ammo back is the way you can rule out the ammo being the cause.

Examination of your gun by a S&W repair center will determine if there is a problem but without having your ammo checked you won't know for sure what was the case.

rod5591
February 19, 2012, 11:13 AM
I reread my posts and wish I could go back and rewrite it--I didn't correctly describe everything. Let me try again. the week before my S&W .357 magnum 686 L frame revolver broke, I the last 7 rounds I fired were Winchester 110 gr. hollow point. I fired them off and tried to reload, but one of the chambers would not accept the shell so i stopped and when I got home I found a shell casing broke in half inside one of the chambers. See Pic.--

Next week I was firing Winchester 157 gr. hollow point and the cylinder froze. It would not move, so I muscled it some and it started turning again so I shot 7 more rounds but then it froze again and wouldn't move. I had to get the range office to clear it and he looked and said the firing pin was gone, and showed be the blown primers on the spent rounds (same as them members here commented on). I took it to a gunsmith who said the ammo was the problem, he said they were reloads, which is what i came and posted.

Does the fact that one of the Winchester 110 gr. hollow point shell casing broke in half inside one of the chambers add any info to the discussion? See Pic.--

by the way, there was a recall of 686-6s about 20 years ago but I bought this gun in 2005--could I have a recall gun? There is no M stamped above the serial numbers, just "686-6"

Steel Talon
February 19, 2012, 11:54 AM
Dont know if this would be relative to your issues???

Myself, I only shoot 158 grain bullets through my magnums. Years ago I fractured the forcing cone on my model 19 shooting some factory 125's. I took it to a local gunsmith. Who told me the problem was the lighter grained bullets and thier bearing surfaces, and to stick with 158 grain bullets.

Never a problem since

triggerman770
February 19, 2012, 12:36 PM
I reread my posts and wish I could go back and rewrite it--I didn't correctly describe everything. Let me try again. the week before my S&W .357 magnum 686 L frame revolver broke, I the last 7 rounds I fired were Winchester 110 gr. hollow point. I fired them off and tried to reload, but one of the chambers would not accept the shell so i stopped and when I got home I found a shell casing broke in half inside one of the chambers. See Pic.--

Next week I was firing Winchester 157 gr. hollow point and the cylinder froze. It would not move, so I muscled it some and it started turning again so I shot 7 more rounds but then it froze again and wouldn't move. I had to get the range office to clear it and he looked and said the firing pin was gone, and showed be the blown primers on the spent rounds (same as them members here commented on). I took it to a gunsmith who said the ammo was the problem, he said they were reloads, which is what i came and posted.

Does the fact that one of the Winchester 110 gr. hollow point shell casing broke in half inside one of the chambers add any info to the discussion? See Pic.--

by the way, there was a recall of 686-6s about 20 years ago but I bought this gun in 2005--could I have a recall gun? There is no M stamped above the serial numbers, just "686-6"
first go to the S&W website to check the possibility of a recall gun.
second. send the pix of the ammo with lot numbers to winchester.(the pierced primers and the separated case) along eith the lot numbers.
third. if not a recall gun have it looked at by Smith & Wesson or a gunsmith familiar with Smith & Wesson's. As Jim K said something more needs to be looked at

rod5591
February 23, 2012, 12:16 AM
I sent S&W an email and they sent me a prepaid warranty label and asked me to send them the gun back. I am thinking at this point that it was a recall gun and that the issue was with with the gun and not the ammo.

One good thing that came about from this was that, since my S&W .357 magnum is out of action, I went out and bought a 1911 to replace it, and I really like it!

I will post the reply from S&W after I get my gun back, just to close out this thread.

au_prospector
February 23, 2012, 10:44 PM
Hey just to clarify, there is no recall on your specific model. There is a recall on S&W 586, 586-1, 686, 686-1 from many many moons ago. The problem was blown primers back flowing into the firing pin aperture. The result would be a locked up cylinder to the point that dis assembly was needed to free it. This was usually the result of owners using overly aggressive reloaded ammunition. Firearms were to be sent back to S&W where a new parts? were added and the frame was stamped with a 'M' next to he model number. Beginning with model 586-2 and 686-2, the problem was fixed at the factory.

How do I know all this? I own a early '80's 586 no dash, no 'M' stamp and stumbled upon the recall during an internet search. I phoned S&W and spoke with a factory gunsmith who simply said something like this... "if you havent had a problem yet, you likely will never have a problem. Dont use out of spec reloads, continue to shoot factory ammo and within spec reloads and you will be fine. Enjoy your revolver." He offered to take a look at my revolver if I sent it to him on my dime, I declined. And that was that.

So unless you have a factory defective 686-6, expect S&W to point to the ammo. Hopefully they will replace your firing pin at no charge. How did you make out with the ammo manufacturer in the mean time?

http://firearmsid.com/Recalls/FA_Recalls%205.htm#SMITH%20&%20WESSON,%20MODEL%20581,%20586,%20681,%20686,%20or%20581-1,%20586-1,%20681-1,%20686-1%20&%20686CS-1,%20REVOLVERS

BTW, the recall is from 25 years ago.

roadsidesaint
February 24, 2012, 01:55 AM
Did you ever have a trigger job done on it? Or any work for that matter?

joed
February 25, 2012, 08:13 AM
S&W had a recall on the 686 for problems just like you had firing these rounds. I don't know much more about it though. Have you talked to S&W? That is the first thing I would do rather then listen to one of us telling you that recall doesn't apply to your gun.

Double Naught Spy
February 25, 2012, 10:00 AM
Wow, it is amazing how a little perspective and information change and the situation goes from Sportsmans Guide selling you reloads as new ammo in a new ammo box to the problem now being with the gun.

rod5591
February 25, 2012, 06:49 PM
Wow, it is amazing how a little perspective and information change and the situation goes from Sportsmans Guide selling you reloads as new ammo in a new ammo box to the problem now being with the gun.

yep your right. I jumped to conclusions based on what the gunsmith told me and then posted here unjustly blaming Sportsman's Guide. I am pretty sure at this point the "reloads" theory is incorrect.

rod5591
February 25, 2012, 07:00 PM
S&W had a recall on the 686 for problems just like you had firing these rounds. I don't know much more about it though. Have you talked to S&W? That is the first thing I would do rather then listen to one of us telling you that recall doesn't apply to your gun.

As another poster mentioned, the S&W recall covered 686, & 686-1, and mine is a 686-6. But the problem I had sounded just like the recall problem--the cylinder binded while firing.

I contacted S&W via their website and and they sent me a prepaid Fed-ex shipping label, even though my gun was purchased in 2005. So it must be the gun is defective somehow, otherwise why would they ask me to return it to them on their dime? I sent it back to them today.

rod5591
February 25, 2012, 07:04 PM
Did you ever have a trigger job done on it? Or any work for that matter?
Nope I never had any work done on it. I never even fired it for 6 years.

SlamFire1
February 25, 2012, 07:07 PM
Looks to me like factory ammunition and factory ammunition that is overpressure for the pistol.

Winchester owes you a firing pin.

rod5591
February 25, 2012, 07:08 PM
So unless you have a factory defective 686-6, expect S&W to point to the ammo. Hopefully they will replace your firing pin at no charge. How did you make out with the ammo manufacturer in the mean time?

http://firearmsid.com/Recalls/FA_Recalls%205.htm#SMITH%20&%20WESSON,%20MODEL%20581,%20586,%20681,%20686,%20or%20581-1,%20586-1,%20681-1,%20686-1%20&%20686CS-1,%20REVOLVERS

BTW, the recall is from 25 years ago.
I haven't even tried to contact Winchester yet. I think I will wait to hear what S&W has to say.

To be honest, I find it a drag to have to deal with stuff like this. Too much like work! How I wish things just worked correctly! LOL

rod5591
March 8, 2012, 09:32 AM
I packaged up my revolver with the fired cartridges and sent it back to S&W. Today I received my revolver back from S&W. They replaced the cylinder, bushing and firing pin, free of charge. They didn't say a word about what caused the damage.

Note to self: Buy no more Winchester ammo. I couldn't even find a number on their web page on how to contact them.

rod5591
March 8, 2012, 09:33 AM
I wonder why S&W replaced the cylinder? The old one looked fine.

SlamFire1
March 8, 2012, 10:20 AM
I packaged up my revolver with the fired cartridges and sent it back to S&W. Today I received my revolver back from S&W. They replaced the cylinder, bushing and firing pin, free of charge. They didn't say a word about what caused the damage.

Considering that it is an ammunition fault, not a gun fault, S&W gave you outstanding Customer Service.

I figure they did about $300.00 of work for free. Maybe more because I don't know the cost of a cylinder.

rod5591
March 8, 2012, 09:58 PM
Considering that it is an ammunition fault, not a gun fault, S&W gave you outstanding Customer Service.

I figure they did about $300.00 of work for free. Maybe more because I don't know the cost of a cylinder.


yes I am very happy with them. Thank you Smith & Wesson!

TonyT
March 11, 2012, 01:15 PM
I have soent some time reading this thread and it is obvious that thos is not a gun problem - it's ab ammo problem. If I had seen the primers flattened to the extent posted by the OP I would have stopped immediately.

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