BCM upper??


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xxxleafybugxxx
February 5, 2012, 10:38 PM
I'm new to this forum, but am happy to be here.

My question is, what are you guys' results with the BCM upper?
I'm looking to build an AR, and from everything I've read this upper is good.
However, what I don't seem to find reviews about this product is accuracy.
I know it's milspec, which is important to a lot of people, which is good for reliability purposes, but I would be using this for plinking, and hunting.
And I am not interested in a varmint version.
Please let me know what I can expect from this upper.
Also, I'm mostly interested in surplus ammo, like m855, and hunting rounds when I will be hunting with it.
One more question, is the lower irrelevant? That's what I've heard, but have a hard time believing it. I will likely be assembling my own lower.
Thanks!

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Z-Michigan
February 6, 2012, 12:18 AM
I have a BCM upper and various other BCM components. You can probably expect something in the 2 MOA range with quality ammo (commercial match grade or varmint hunting grade). Most GI-style ammo (like M855) won't produce that accuracy, regardless of the barrel, and is more likely 3-4 MOA ammo for 10-shot groups.

BCM is quality, but it's made to work under all conditions. The standard and BFH versions are not made with a focus on accuracy. They have an SS-410 barrel that is more accuracy focused. However, any/all of those are probably not the best choice for your stated uses. You haven't mentioned any zombie infestation, fortunately. There are many good options for plinking/hunting. Describe your goals in more detail and we can suggest some specifics.

xxxleafybugxxx
February 6, 2012, 12:44 AM
Thanks Michigan. Here are my most likely purposes.
First and foremost, putting rounds down the range. There is a 100 yard range I go to. When I lived in Arizona, there was a bunch of govt land you could just go out to and shoot rocks and chipmunks :D Here in Indiana though, I do not have that luxury.
Secondly, it will be used for hunting. Varmints, coyotes, etc. Only if the opportunity arrives either outside of my current state, or down the road...
These are the main two uses. It will be mostly range time at least for now, until my circumstances change where I have a little more freedom to use my rifles outside of the range.
Ammo will mostly be milsurp, just for the cheapness factor. I havnt gotten into loading yet, and that is probably a few years down the road. Also, its just another rifle to put in my safe. Im a fan of assault rifles in general, and will keep my others company in the safe.
One other use would be for SHTF purposes. I know that's a typical answer, but there is no such thing as being two prepared.
These are my uses for the gun.
The main reason I had my eyes on the BCM was because of good reports, and it's not terribly expensive. I did the quick math and would be able to assemble this rifle for $7-850 depending on what all I get, and thats better than ordering a complete rifle. Plus, I think the building process sounds fun.

Carter
February 6, 2012, 01:16 AM
Comparing the dpms upper I traded for my current bcm, the dpms was more it accurate. It also had a floated barrel, but it was still a lot more accurate.

I'm no bench rest shooter but it was enough for me to notice. That said the bcm is still a great upper and accurate, but its not its shining attribute.

xxxleafybugxxx
February 6, 2012, 08:57 AM
So whats the big deal with mil spec?
I will not be holding my rifle to standards at which risk its ability to run safely (as would be experienced in military situations. If I did though, that's what my AK is for.
Why are people so up tight about needing milspec items? There is higher quality than milspec. Why would it be such a bad idea to go with something that isn't milspec, but still has a good product and good reviews?

SpentCasing
February 6, 2012, 09:18 AM
mil-spec is the minimum standards for a fighting rifle. if you are gonna bet your life against the rifle then some of us feel these minimum standards are important. if you however are more concerned about blasting away at the range with friends mil-specs is less important.

BCM makes quality fighting rifles, I however just decided to go with PSA and am very happy.

Z-Michigan
February 6, 2012, 09:35 AM
Mil-spec (real TDP spec, not the vaguely looks like an M4 that many companies treat as mil-spec) will provide the most durability and reliability, especially under severe conditions - heat, cold, dust, getting the barrel over 500 degrees from sustained fire, etc. Some of the design features needed to do so tend to slightly decrease accuracy - looser chambers, for example.

Many people use their carbines hard in competition, training or whatever and value reliability above all. BCM (and Colt, DD, LMT) is for those people. You can still get excellent accuracy but it's not the #1 priority. What those brands will do is you can put the upper on a full-auto lower (if you happen to own one... roughly $10k and up) and dump 10 mags as fast as you can and likely won't have any malfunction, damage or unusual wear. Don't try that with the cheaper brands.

Price no object I would look at a stainless barrel model like BCM's SS-410, a Noveske, or a Spike's with their LW-50 SS barrel. You will pay extra for it. Those combine top reliability with top accuracy.

That said, you would probably still be happy with accuracy of a BCM basic chrome-lined model, but it is not the greatest accuracy for the buck.

There are actually more accurate ARs on the market than highly reliable/durable ones. Most brands apart from the very bottom sell ARs with barrels that shoot pretty well. Based on your stated goals I would look seriously at Armalite, which makes a very good quality AR but with more of an accuracy focus. There are many other good options too. Nothing wrong with BCM if that's what you want, just look at your priorities and the value proposition.

Captains1911
February 6, 2012, 10:06 AM
It's as accurate as any other chrome-lined AR, probably 2 MOA or so with quality ammo, but like most other fighting carbines, accuracy is not a top priority. M855 is more like 3-4 MOA ammo, regardless of the barrel. For hunting they are plenty accurate unless you're hunting prairie dogs at 500 yards.

I have 2 BCM uppers and love them. I don't run them real hard, but I like knowing they are capable.

The lower is not irrelevant, but not as critical as long as decent parts are used and they are properly assembled. Relating back to accuracy, the GI trigger is long and gritty, but very reliable. There are several aftermarket trigger options if that's important to you.

xxxleafybugxxx
February 6, 2012, 12:37 PM
Thanks for all of these good responses. I suppose that 3-4 moa isn't terrible for milsirp and even just plinking. Plus 2it with hunting ammo isn't bad either. That's a definite hit on a yote probably even out to 200 yards. Also, if I ever used this for hd, I would want to be sure it's going to fire everytime.
I was going to the build my lower... probably buy a stripped from palmetto for around 80. Then a parts kit. Maybe a trigger upgrade down the road. Would this put together a reliable and accurate rifle?

wnycollector
February 6, 2012, 02:46 PM
probably buy a stripped from palmetto for around 80. Then a parts kit. Maybe a trigger upgrade down the road. Would this put together a reliable and accurate rifle?

If you do some searching over at the EE on ar15.com or gunbroker, you should be able to find a RRA LPK with the 2 stage trigger for ~$125. The 2 stage trigger will do wonders for reducing your group size.

Captains1911
February 6, 2012, 03:03 PM
you should be able to find a RRA LPK with the 2 stage trigger for ~$125. The 2 stage trigger will do wonders for reducing your group size.

I agree that the RRA 2-stage trigger helps with accuracy, i have one, but I've heard too many reports of them crapping out to trust one on a rifle that may serve a defensive role.

This would be my lower parts kit of choice:
https://danieldefense.com/components-parts/lower-half/lower-receiver-parts-kit-semi-auto.html

And if you want a two-stage trigger with a reputation for being very reliable:
http://geissele.com/supersemi-automatic.aspx

xxxleafybugxxx
February 6, 2012, 03:40 PM
Well I can probably hold of on using it as a hd rifle for now. That's what aks are for (:
But if the rra 2or stage trigger kit would help with accuracy, ill probably go with that. Do the 80the stripped receivers do a good job? From what I've heard, you should just get whatever stripped receiver you think has the best emblem

Z-Michigan
February 6, 2012, 03:45 PM
I don't have a PSA stripped lower, but I have several from Aero Precision, which makes *some* of the PSA lowers. The AP lowers I have are decent, but some corners were cut. Another $30-40 on a better lower would be well spent, IMHO.

However, I've read that *some* of the PSA lowers are made by LRB. I have no experience with LRB, but they seem to have a very good reputation. So it depends a bit on which particular lower you get.

I'd suggest you just go for some brand of lower that is always made by the same shop. I like Mega, personally. The out of production Charles Daly lowers were excellent. And anything from S&W, Armalite, or RRA should be good too.

kfgk14
February 6, 2012, 04:41 PM
If you don't go with a stainless barrel, expect about 2MOA. If you don't float the barrel, that could be a little worse, even. So float the barrel and get a stainless barrel, and with good match ammo, you can expect 1.5 MOA

xxxleafybugxxx
February 6, 2012, 05:39 PM
I likely will not go the SS route. Does BCM offer floated barrels in their mid length uppers?
Also, I'd like to hear some more about the lower issue.
I know I'm being repetitive on this but please understand I must be thorough before I make any purchases.
Amrmalite, Bushy, etc all acceptable stripped lowers?
How important is lower kit? are $99 kits ok?
I am very new in the AR field, so please do excuse all of my questions and worries. I guess its weird to me to have the option of basically buiding your own rifle from top to bottom.
I want this to be a relatively cheap build, because if it isn't I would just rather buy a complete rifle.
The other thing is, I need this to be quality. Because, from what I've heard, when you mix and match parts like this, if you didn't like it and tried to resell it, it wouldn't be worth as much as a complete rifle.
Thanks all!

SpentCasing
February 6, 2012, 07:02 PM
Palmetto lowers are good to go. Buy with confidence.

DoubleTapDrew
February 6, 2012, 07:08 PM
I likely will not go the SS route. Does BCM offer floated barrels in their mid length uppers?

Yes, I have one. I have done very limited 100yd accuracy testing with it since it's usually got an eo tech on it and isn't set up to drive tacks, but with good ammo (BH 69gr OTM) it was about 2 moa. If you want something that's very accurate and still chrome lined you'll need to expand your budget a bit and go with a noveske or put a noveske barrel on your bcm upper.
For lower parts kits just buy from any reputable seller, they are pretty standard. I've heard the triggers on the Daniel Defense, Spikes, and PSA kits are pretty nice for a standard GI trigger.

Z-Michigan
February 6, 2012, 08:30 PM
For lower parts kits just buy from any reputable seller, they are pretty standard. I've heard the triggers on the Daniel Defense, Spikes, and PSA kits are pretty nice for a standard GI trigger.

I would avoid a DPMS LPK based on personal experience that they have out of spec parts making for more difficult assembly.

You can often get Spike's kits at AIM for $64 or so, and that's a good deal. Daniel Defense is also a good kit for a few more bucks. IMHO the best easy to get LPK is the G&R Tactical, but it seems to be out of stock at the moment:

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=GRT-LPK

Armalite also makes a good LPK, and is the lowest cost option ($120ish) if you want a 2-stage trigger (it's not a particularly light or crisp trigger though).

xxxleafybugxxx
February 6, 2012, 08:45 PM
Well, I will likely just stick with the standard BCM mid upper. I guess I don't need to shoot exclusively 100 yards... I'm not sure what I'm thinking... Thats why my m1a is for. But I did the math and can do this build for roughly 800. I'd be saving 300 from buying most other mil spec rifles. However, my first thought was that I was going to buy a RRA operator for 1k. But then everyone threw a fuss about it not being milspec... so I conformed.
The thing I like about this is I can do it incrementally.
And to touch on the accuracy part, I guess 2 moa with hunting ammo is good for hunting so I guess there arent really any concerns. I am just trying to get too much out of my rifle!

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