Deployed soldiers put new shotgun to the test


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wingnutx
February 9, 2004, 05:57 PM
Trial by fire
Deployed soldiers put new shotgun to the test


Some soldiers serving in Afghanistan are testing a new shotgun that mounts under the barrel of their M4 carbines.
In November, officials from the Army’s Program Executive Office Soldier issued 199 Lightweight Shotgun Systems to units from the 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry) stationed at Kandahar Airfield and Bagram Air Base.

In Afghanistan, most soldiers admitted it was not what they expected, said Maj. Trevor Shaw, PEO Soldier’s assistant product manager for individual weapons.

“They were really surprised by the size and design,” Shaw said.

It weighs 2 pounds, 11 ounces. It has a 7¾-inch barrel, compared to most riot-style shotgun barrels that measure between 18 to 20 inches and weigh about 6 pounds.

Like the 3-pound M203 grenade launcher, the Lightweight Shotgun System is designed to mount directly onto the M4 carbine.

“They really like the weight,” Shaw said. “They are lighter than the M203, so it’s not any more cumbersome than soldiers are used to.”

On the downside, the new shotguns cost $1,700 each, which is more than the Army would like to pay.

But the weapons were purchased under an “urgent need” request, said Lt. Col. Matthew Clarke, PEO Soldier’s product manager for individual weapons “The quantities are so small that each gun is handmade.”

If the Army decides to adopt the new design, Clarke said, full production likely would cut the current cost in half.

There also would be a competitive bidding process, so other companies could compete, he said. “That shotgun may not be the eventual winner,” Clarke said.

What officials are sure of, however, is that soldiers, so far, seem to like the “straight-pull bolt action” and uncomplicated design of the weapon.

“It’s really simple,” Shaw said. “It’s much easier to disassemble than a commercial-grade shotgun.”

— Matthew Cox

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=0-ARMYPAPER-2595216.php


http://www.tradoc.army.mil/pao/TNSarchives/October03/shotgun2.jpg

http://www.tradoc.army.mil/pao/TNSarchives/October03/shotgun.jpg

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Boats
February 9, 2004, 06:13 PM
How are these shotguns used? Are they "master keys?" Are they "New York reloads" for CQB? It would seem that their utility is limited, either that, or my imagination is.

Autolite
February 9, 2004, 08:32 PM
are suppose to be used for guarding prisoners (POW's) and such. I'd like to know if there actually is a combat shotgun currently in use ...

Billll
February 9, 2004, 08:40 PM
How did that line from the Miller decision go? "The defendants (who, by that time were dead, and unrepresented) having failed to demonstrate a connection between a sawn-off shotgun and any militia application..."

:evil:

striker3
February 9, 2004, 09:03 PM
I'd like to know if there actually is a combat shotgun currently in use ...


There are a few different combat shotguns currently being used. In the USMC inventory, at least, there is the Remington 870, Mossberg 500/590 and the newest addition is the Benelli M1014, which is sold on the civilian market as the M4. All still are carried, and see combat. The shotgun is a wonderful tool in CQB, which incompasses more than just buildings. It is also perfect for guard duty, whether it be a perimeter or a prisoner.

I for one would love to try this new shotgun, but they will need to modify it to fit a full size rifle as the Corps doesn't issue that many M4s...

Nightcrawler
February 9, 2004, 09:05 PM
This isn't a regular 12 gauge. It's designed prettymuch to fire breaching rounds only. There was a long thread about it in the shotguns forum.

One wonders if a breaching round for the M203 wouldn't have been even more expedient and a lot cheaper, but I'm glad it's working for the troops.

4v50 Gary
February 9, 2004, 11:00 PM
Funny but a few years back I bought a shotgun mount for the AR. Never got another 870 or whatnot to mount beneath it. Imagine a 20" bbl AR with an 18" bbl shotgun slung beneath it. All it needs is a flashlight, laser sight, red dot, bipod, ammo bearer and gun bearer. :)

Interesting muzzlebrake on that shotgun. It escapes me why it costs $1,700 per unit though.:scrutiny:

wingnutx
February 9, 2004, 11:25 PM
they are expensive because they are prototypes, is my offhand guess.

Mizzoutiger
February 10, 2004, 02:35 PM
Where's the M4s lower handguard??

Looks really awkward to use the rifle normally now.

ctdonath
February 10, 2004, 03:25 PM
I see three configurations there ... the third is an NFA AOW. Where do I order one? (Legal in NY, unlike the other configurations.)

bogie
February 10, 2004, 03:58 PM
You know, it'd be REAL interesting to see how this would hold up in a "Miller" challenge...

dinosaur
February 10, 2004, 04:07 PM
Maybe that includes the Achnod launching trap machine.:evil:

bogie
February 10, 2004, 05:02 PM
The last thought throught Abduhl's head...

"Why did the foolish infidel yell "pull" - can't he see that the door is supposed to open inward?"

SMLE
February 10, 2004, 10:31 PM
17 grand huh? Um, that's ONE grand, seven hundred. Expensive? Yes, but not ridiculous for a prototype likely made by hand.

Smoke
February 11, 2004, 12:00 PM
So how would a civilian grasp his rifle equiped like the one in the picture with the soldier, if he is not allowed to posess high cap mags?

Just an idle thought. I have some 8 round mags for my AR, it would make it tough to use this gun. I guess I have to get some more illegal high caps.

{Idiot gun store clerk told me the other day that all high caps are illegal for civilians to posess}

Smoke

dinosaur
February 11, 2004, 04:42 PM
OOOH! Brain fart!:banghead: Does this mean the Achnod launcher isn`t available?:cuss:

Actually, $1700 isn`t that much considering what a good shotgun and select fire rifle goes for here.:D

9 m&m
February 26, 2004, 10:28 PM
Sure glad that aint a semi auto shotgun or the dude in the picture would get a wake up call!!!!OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!

$1700!?!?! That better come with some ammo!!!! :D

Travis McGee
February 27, 2004, 12:09 AM
Personal opinion: POS. For another pound you can have a 40mm that gives you a REAL edge. If this is just for breaching, it seems like a hell of an anchor to lug around the rest of the time. I'd rather carry 5 more mags of 5.56 for the weight penalty this would cost.

Battlespace
February 27, 2004, 05:46 AM
Isn't there still a buckshot round for the M203? We had them for the M79 in Vietnam.

mdsteele
February 27, 2004, 01:18 PM
oops.:D

fix
February 27, 2004, 01:27 PM
Personal opinion: POS. For another pound you can have a 40mm that gives you a REAL edge. If this is just for breaching, it seems like a hell of an anchor to lug around the rest of the time. I'd rather carry 5 more mags of 5.56 for the weight penalty this would cost.

I agree. In the six years I spent in the Corps, I never saw a shotgun used (as a weapon) for anything other than guard duty. Saw it used as a destructive tool plenty. Breaching, trashing equipment, etc. I have no doubt as to the effectiveness of a shotgun in a CQB environment, but I just don't see a real need for it. Obviously someone does, and as far as I'm concerned they should get it. They are there, I am not.

another okie
February 28, 2004, 06:03 PM
Was it the Le Mat pistol during the Civil War that had a shotgun barrel mounted below the cylinder?

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