Kahrs Incorrectly Get Bad Rap


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a36bill
February 5, 2012, 11:35 PM
I often see reviews that describe Kahr pistols as unreliable. Yes, Kahr suggests a 200 round break-in period, but that was not necessary with 3 of the 4 Kahrs that I own. My CW9, CW45, and CM9 functioned flawlessly right out of the box. I did have some issues with my P380, but a short trip back to Kahr and the gun is now very reliable.

Kahrs, by nature, are very tight guns. Shake a Kahr, and you won't hear the slide and other parts rattle like with a Glock (before you get defensive, I'm a Glock fan). I attribute the P380 problems to the fact that it is a very small gun, so the tolerances are more critical, and it just needed a few factory adjustments after it had some rounds through it.

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johnnydollar
February 6, 2012, 12:03 AM
I've owned a CW-9, a CW-40, and two PM-9s. The two bigger guns were reliable; the two PM-9s were not. But in my world, "reliable" guns do not need to make a trip back to the factory. They don't even necessarily need an extractor (HK P7).

rferizano
February 6, 2012, 12:13 AM
Hand refitting of any CNC production gun of today can make all the difference in the world.

Patriotme
February 6, 2012, 01:12 AM
Got a CW9.
Great gun, no issues and I have complete trust in int.
Nuff said.

sturmgewehr
February 6, 2012, 01:46 AM
I have a CW9, CM9 and a P380. All three have been flawless performers with everything from high quality defensive ammo to Winchester White Box.

hardluk1
February 6, 2012, 08:25 AM
CM9 and CW9 and both have been 100% . I really think a percentage of problems are caused by the owners of small pistols. To many newbe's or inexperienced shooters will also buy a firearm and go directly to a range to shoot'um up and have problems then whine about it. Or simply don't follow basic directions. I bought my CW9 that way.

usp9
February 6, 2012, 08:32 AM
I'm a Kahr fan, but two of my seven Kahrs did not work reliably, having a combination of light strikes and ejection problems. My other Kahrs operate very reliably. IMHO, the Kahrs have little room left in their design for variances that may affect function. I'd rather the gun be more reliable even at the cost of a little weight.

The mags need to be redesigned as well as the well known nose drop can be problematic. This is a design flaw that should have been fixed years ago but wasn't. I still like the guns but I'd like them more if they were as reliable as my HKs.

hardluk1
February 7, 2012, 09:23 AM
When sw, kimber, ruger ,heck any of them have runs of issues with new pistols they all will fix them if you only you take the time to return them .

I have an ole riding buddy back in florida that had a 45 cal hk as one of the choices for a duty pistol. He retired with the police and moved over to the sheriffs depo. There He got another HK. It was a problem pistol, spent enought time in the armorers hands it finally was returned and he carries something else now.

JohnBT
February 7, 2012, 10:04 AM
"with 3 of the 4 Kahrs that I own"

That's a 25% failure rate. ;)

BrainOnSigs
February 7, 2012, 10:10 AM
Actually Kahrs selling point is reliability. There were a few issues with some of the early releases but those were resolved. The majority of recent reviews are glowing.

TarDevil
February 7, 2012, 10:11 AM
Read Feb 2012 issue of Shooting Times review of micro .380's. Does not make me want a Kahr (or ANY micro .380 for that matter, but especially not the Kahr).

BrainOnSigs
February 7, 2012, 10:23 AM
I agree on any micro .380....any .380 for that matter. Not when you can have 9mm in something as small a a PM9.

hardluk1
February 7, 2012, 11:26 AM
John if you feel so bad about them why do you own 4 of them. Have a good shooter look them over first. If still a problem just send the problem pistols back to be fixed. Talk to rich at kahr, Write out a good solid letter with all issues. Some people give the CS people crap and then don't send a letter along detailing the problems so something gets over looked. That happens too.

It happens with all of the firearms companies. What would you do if you had a couple 1200 or higher dollar pistols that would not feed HP rounds relieably. Complan or get it fixed. It happens so often, or atleast thats the way some 1911 owners sound on these forums as they carry fmj not Hp ammo.

The kahr I have that sold me on them was from an older well seasoned pistol shooter that said his kahr cw9 was junk, not relieable. I cleaned it, looked for any thing to smooth or debur. Lubed it where needed and fired 600 rounds before recleaning. Not a single problem now with around 1200 rounds fired but it was junk to a seasoned shooter. Went out and bought a CM9 did the same thing to it and use the loger mags too.

The only pistol, a, firearm that ever gave me a problem that I could not deal with in 40 years was a p-11. Could not figure it out and ended up going back for a look over. Came back great, an darn near a completely different pistol. Even had the trigger smoothed up a bit. Great pistol after that. I did not complain or bad mouth it on these forums. Just took care of it. I also carried a pf-9 for 2 1/2 years that was a fine little pistol, very dependable if not a bit hard on the hand. Both KT's are now with other family memebers after getting my 2 kahr.

Like I have said before , some of the problems is with the owners some with the firearm. Some just leave um lay and bad mouth them, some trade them off with out being look at. That just pass's a possible problem to another person for them to bitch about. And the cycle goes on.

340PD
February 7, 2012, 11:30 AM
I am just about to go out the door with the carry gun I trust and shoot the best.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t320/gnystrom_photos/KahrGarrettHolster.jpg

a36bill
February 7, 2012, 12:18 PM
I subscribe to your channel and have seen your Kahr reviews. Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge via YouTube

a36bill
February 7, 2012, 12:24 PM
Sturmgewehr- I forgot to add your name to the previous reply. I enjoy your YouTube reviews.

wild cat mccane
February 7, 2012, 01:42 PM
My PM40 was a turd. Broke first shot back from the factory.

PM40's are well known for shattering the mag followers. Very googleable. Kahr just send you a new one. No fix.

The +1 magazines are known for not being as reliable as the flush fitting in both PM9 and PM40. Very googleable. I think it is the rule that most do not have 100's of rounds through their +1 magazine without a failure. The exception is the person who has.
(brings up another point. The "flush" fitting mags make the guns longer than advertised. They aren't flush at all.)

Kahr has the most unsupported magazines in the gun world. Put a mag in the pocket and it dumps the rounds. The second round shifts forward easily due to this. Great causer of nose diving rounds. Very googleable

Kahr's like to fail to go into battery. Very googleable.

No, their rep is spotty for some reasons.

Ledgehammer
February 7, 2012, 02:07 PM
Kahr's like to fail to go into battery. Very googleable.
That's because people don't read their manual on how to load your first round. If you use the slide release as the manual recommends - no problems.

My cw9 was 100% and I'm about to pick up a cm9 this Friday. I love kahrs.

FIVETWOSEVEN
February 7, 2012, 02:53 PM
If you use the slide release as the manual recommends - no problems.

Lefties be damned!

If I'm looking at a pistol, I want one that can be used by both arms, with or without the support of the opposite hand. If I have to drop the slide with only my left hand, how am I supposed to do it lefty in a reliable way? I suppose I could try and release it with my left pointer finger like I do on my XD but you lose grip when you do that.

The_Armed_Therapist
February 7, 2012, 03:07 PM
CW40 and P380. The CW40 took 150-200 rounds to break in, but is settling in very well. I sometimes have an issue with chambering the first round. It gets slightly caught on the feed ramp and I'll have to tap the magazine from the bottom. The last 100 shots (I'm approaching 300) have been flawless, though. It is good enough for me to trust when my Glock 22 is too big for high necessity concealment.

The P380 is still within the break-in period, around 100 to 150 rounds. It is technically my wife's gun and she thinks that at this point, it only has issues with one of her magazines, not the other 2.

I certainly can't put Kahr into the same category as Glock or M&P or XD, but then again they don't make a 6" long, .90" wide .40sw pistol. Apples and oranges, I suppose.

wild cat mccane
February 7, 2012, 03:08 PM
I patiently await correction of my other concerns.

I agree that using the slide helps, but that doesn't solve all the FTB's Kahr's get.

SteampunkQueen
February 7, 2012, 03:08 PM
Ive been giving a lot of thought to getting a Kahr, they're nice pistols from what i know. Ive wanted to pick up the new MK9, all stainless pistol.

Ledgehammer
February 7, 2012, 05:45 PM
Watch sturmghever's YouTube review. You'll be a believer after that. Seriously idk why your having ftb. Good luck with it though. I'm curious now too. I love mine.

JohnBT
February 7, 2012, 06:46 PM
"I trust and shoot the best."

You have a Rohrbaugh too? :cool:

OldCavSoldier
February 7, 2012, 06:59 PM
A very good friend had nothing but trouble with his Kahr...back and forth to/from Kahr three different times to fix the problem, but no good. I do realize that that was just one pistol, but, seeing how much trouble my buddy had, I have opted for SIG pistols. They may not be as small or light as a Kahr, but, I have never had any failures of any kind with any SIG, starting right out of the box all the way to ~10,000 rounds.

hardluk1
February 8, 2012, 08:00 AM
Darn good thang theres choices for others. Now run and buy what you want.

If you live in western NC and have a turd of a kahr I will buy it cheap from you.

RUT
February 8, 2012, 08:13 AM
>>If you use the slide release as the manual recommends - no problems.<<

There's nothing wrong with "slingshotting" a Kahr as long as it's done properly. Works every time with my PM9.

Ledgehammer
February 8, 2012, 12:39 PM
Yes there is, and the manual does not recommend it for the cw and cm series. Yours may be different. If it works for you that's great. Mine will slingshot now that it's broken in, but there's not really a "wrong" way to do it. Pull back slide and release.

wild cat mccane
February 8, 2012, 12:45 PM
And for aesthetics...

Kahr plastic is about the softest there is. Easily scratches, shaves like crazy.

The barrels are media blasted. This is cheaper than polishing. So for $600 you can get a PM9 with the cheapest barrel finish a gun creator can use. Even Taurus polishes the barrel.

Not that it matters, but I didn't see anyone addressing my physical problems with Karhs. Maybe someone will have fun refuting cosmetics.

Oh, did everyone follow the CM9 is having problems with mags splitting in half? kahrtalk has a great run on that going right now.

RUT
February 8, 2012, 02:04 PM
>>but there's not really a "wrong" way to do it.<<

Here's the thing.... some folks tend to use the "overhand" method, and want to "ride" the slide down. This is when it won't work as intended.

doorman
February 8, 2012, 02:24 PM
I can only speak for my own experience with Kahr pistols. I purchased new a P45 in March of 2007. First time out it was light striking like 6 times out of a hundred. Ok, give it the 200 round break in a shot. Consistantly would not go bang on average 6% of the time. Contacted Kahr about the issue and sent it in. Pistol came back three week later. They polished the feed ramp. I never had a problem with feeding or ejecting when the pistol would fire so polishing the feed ramp seemed a little weird.

Went back to the range and still had the light strike issue and I was not confident enough to carry. The pistol was essentially a safe queen until I traded it for a new S&W .380 Bodyguard in May of last year.

I two pistols that I have that have been flawless on performance are a Glock G17 9mm and the Smith 380.

RU

rodinal220
February 8, 2012, 03:00 PM
I have a K40 and K9,early examples with the black oxide finish.They have been 100% reliable with factory ammo and quality reloads.With crappy reloaded ammo from an agency bid not so good.Failure to chamber stoppages.The black oxide finish not the best and can rust easily,needs to be wiped down daily to prevent serious rust if carried.
I do not have any polymer framed guns,only steel and I really like them alot.For a small gun it feels and shoots like a full size gun.Very accurate from 0-25 yards.
Trigger pin tends to drift from left to right after a 50 round string,but has never fallen out or affected reliability,it only goes so far,not much and seems to stop.A little degreasing on the ends and some blue 242 loctite slows the drift down for a while until I do a complete strip each year and clean the gun thoroughly.

critter
February 8, 2012, 03:41 PM
I have an MK9 and have NEVER, not once, ever had a problem with it from round #1.

wild cat mccane
February 8, 2012, 04:23 PM
the only problems talked about with the metal MK or P series seems to be cracked frames.

The polymer guns, like I have said and have not been refuted on, have issues that do warrant their so-so rapport.

Ledgehammer
February 8, 2012, 04:34 PM
>>but there's not really a "wrong" way to do it.<<

Here's the thing.... some folks tend to use the "overhand" method, and want to "ride" the slide down. This is when it won't work as intended.


If that works for you great. A round is supposed to be chambered in a kahr firearm by depressing the slide release on the side of the weapon. Per the manual that comes with the firearm. That works 100% for me and everybody else I've talked to.

FIVETWOSEVEN
February 8, 2012, 04:37 PM
Here's the thing.... some folks tend to use the "overhand" method, and want to "ride" the slide down. This is when it won't work as intended.

If they are riding the slide, they are doing it wrong. You keep pulling back on the slide and then release your grip.

230therapy
February 8, 2012, 04:38 PM
Let's see:

Two bad PM9's and one bad K9. That leaves one good PM9 for a 25% success rate out of the box. I am not inclined to buy another Kahr pistol.

BrainOnSigs
February 8, 2012, 05:04 PM
Yes...and thousands upon thousands Glocks go KABOOM or lead to NDs daily.

The internet is a wonderful thing.

And now that I am on my soapbox...it is a slide stop...not a slide release.

My take: train as you mean to fight. Every. Single. Time. Rack the slide by placing your weak hand on the top of the slide (behind the ejection port), pull it back and let it go. Use this racking technique whenever you safety check a gun. Never use the “slide stop” as a “slide release.” The only time I would consider this is if my left arm was incapacitated.

I have spent some time with the founder of Kahr (Justin Moon) a couple of times. He has shown me his quality numbers and they are as high as any of the big name manufacturers after a few start-up issues several years ago.

http://brainonsigs.smugmug.com/Other/Things-that-go-BANG/i-dCvS967/0/L/2009shotshow-01162009-031-L.jpg

Viper
February 8, 2012, 05:21 PM
I have had seven Kahrs in the last five years, and current have four, PM9, CW40, CW45, and MK40. Two were stolen and one traded on another Kahr. So far, I have not had any failures with any of the seven even during break in, but I do throughly prep all my pistols before firing. Although the CW 40 and 45 are by far my least expensive guns, 80% of the time you will find one or the other on my belt, if I can cover a belt holster. If not, the PM9 or maybe the MK40 will be in a pocket.

Elkins45
February 8, 2012, 06:48 PM
My PM9 is my weekend carry gun. It has never failed to function regardless of the ammo I fed it.

Ledgehammer
February 8, 2012, 07:18 PM
And now that I am on my soapbox...it is a slide stop...not a slide release.

Actually on a kahr it's a release. Now get down off that box lol

Google this and tell me what you find.


027M9S Slide Release Lever

Slide Release Lever
Qty: $24.20

Learn something new everyday. Dontcha?

Doubting Thomas
February 8, 2012, 11:46 PM
CW45 here. I'm fairly familiar with .45s having shot my first 1911 over 50 years ago. Reliability is Job 1 with me. Got the Kahr 2 months ago and it has eaten everything without a hitch. I'm impressed, and in today's climate that's saying a lot.

My suspicion is that many purchasers of semiauto pistols--especially small ones--would be better served with J frame Smiths. KISS and all that. :rolleyes:

mongo4567
February 8, 2012, 11:58 PM
I have a PM40, I love it. My friend has one too. They are both 100% reliable.

madwell
February 9, 2012, 01:57 AM
I bought a CW9 a few months ago and have had zero problems with it. The first day I took it to the range I fired 450 rounds through it without a single malfunction. I was also slingshoting the slide as I do with all my guns and did experience any Failures. YMMV

I also really like the way my CW9 carries IWB. I have been carrying it as much as my J frame lately.

RhinoDefense
February 9, 2012, 02:12 AM
Yes...and thousands upon thousands Glocks go KABOOM or lead to NDs daily.
That's the stupidest thing on a gun forum I read all day. Thanks for entertaining me tonight. If there were literally "thousands" of such occurrences every day as you claim, there would certainly be national media coverage and manufacturers publicly addressing the problem ad nauseam. That post alone shows you have no clue what you are talking about.

orphanedcowboy
February 9, 2012, 02:40 AM
Rhino, he was being sarcastic, go back and read the whole thread, it was stated that unsupported chambers on the Glocks lead to the majority of kabooms in 40 cal

BrainOnSigs
February 9, 2012, 08:03 AM
That's the stupidest thing on a gun forum I read all day. Thanks for entertaining me tonight. If there were literally "thousands" of such occurrences every day as you claim, there would certainly be national media coverage and manufacturers publicly addressing the problem ad nauseam. That post alone shows you have no clue what you are talking about.
Yeah...you missed that one Rhino. It was a joke about the internet. You can visit almost any gun forum and you will see someone make a negative statement about a weapon....then 2 people back up the statement (usually at least one of them stating something along the lines of "my 2nd cousins brother-in-law had one blow up in his hand")...and suddenly there is an edpidemic of failures associated with a certian gun. It then become gospel and more people pass along the bad info.

BrainOnSigs
February 9, 2012, 08:06 AM
Actually on a kahr it's a release. Now get down off that box lol

Google this and tell me what you find.


027M9S Slide Release Lever

Slide Release Lever
Qty: $24.20

Learn something new everyday. Dontcha?
I stand corrected.

But whether a company calls it a slide stop or a slide catch or a slide release doesn't change the fact of it's intended original purpose......to lock the slide open. Everyone should save themselves some wear and tear on the lever and the slide and release the pressure of the slide on the lever by slingshotting it.

hardluk1
February 9, 2012, 08:39 AM
Even my cm9 will slingshot like a well tuned pistol should.

jblackfish
February 9, 2012, 08:48 AM
I've never heard anything but good comments about Kahr, especially in the area of reliability! My P9 and PM9 are great and very reliable. Some folks question their magazines and the fact that the rounds change position between the top and next round but they feed fine - never had a problem.

As already mentioned they DO recommend that you load the first round from slide lock but I've not had a problem loading by racking the slide to load the 1st round either.

Aiko492
February 9, 2012, 09:42 AM
My experience with Kahr was a poor one- P380. Tight tolerances fine. Feeding and ejecting issues. Called Kahr CS said to try different ammo and give it the minimum break-in. The gun just never worked. The offered to have me send it back. However, my feeling is any gun that needs to be sent back- I personally lose confidence in that gun. Would not buy a Kahr again. My very kind LGS have me the full price to trade towards another gun.

RUT
February 9, 2012, 09:49 AM
Yup, Kahr's are a strange lot.... sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. And dealing with their C.S. is touch & go at best. I have one that just happens to work well, but I probably wouldn't chance another one.

NinjaFeint
February 9, 2012, 09:54 AM
I stand corrected.

But whether a company calls it a slide stop or a slide catch or a slide release doesn't change the fact of it's intended original purpose......to lock the slide open. Everyone should save themselves some wear and tear on the lever and the slide and release the pressure of the slide on the lever by slingshotting it.

I always thought the folks who designed the gun got to say what it is/should be used for, not some random guy on a gun forum.

jblackfish
February 9, 2012, 10:03 AM
My experience with Kahr was a poor one- P380. Tight tolerances fine. Feeding and ejecting issues. Called Kahr CS said to try different ammo and give it the minimum break-in. The gun just never worked. The offered to have me send it back. However, my feeling is any gun that needs to be sent back- I personally lose confidence in that gun. Would not buy a Kahr again. My very kind LGS have me the full price to trade towards another gun.
I never had much luck with any 380 - that caliber seems like a different breed of ammo and, in my experience, problem prone. Admittedly I haven't tried that many different 380 guns and don't intend to based on my past experience. Life's too short....

BrainOnSigs
February 9, 2012, 10:05 AM
Yep....that's why John M. Browning referred to it as the "slide stop" in his design. I am sure all the folks who call it a slide release...use it as such. No matter who calls it by what name......doesn't it make sense to release the pressure of the recoil spring on the lever by pulling back the slide versus scraping the metal of the lever off of the metal of the slide?

Signed,

Some Random Guy

FIVETWOSEVEN
February 9, 2012, 11:56 AM
It's faster to use the slide stop to release the slide and it takes a lot to wear down the metal especially on modern guns.

NinjaFeint
February 9, 2012, 12:57 PM
Yep....that's why John M. Browning referred to it as the "slide stop" in his design. I am sure all the folks who call it a slide release...use it as such. No matter who calls it by what name......doesn't it make sense to release the pressure of the recoil spring on the lever by pulling back the slide versus scraping the metal of the lever off of the metal of the slide?

Signed,

Some Random Guy

Invoking John Browning has zero relevance on a gun designed by other folks 100 years later.

BrainOnSigs
February 9, 2012, 01:23 PM
It's faster to use the slide stop to release the slide and it takes a lot to wear down the metal especially on modern guns.
Faster isn't the point at all. A defensive shooting course sounds in order.

BrainOnSigs
February 9, 2012, 01:29 PM
Invoking John Browning has zero relevance on a gun designed by other folks 100 years later.
All the relevance in the world. Just because a newer gun manufacturer decides to to call the slide stop a slide release makes it the gospel? Yes the slide stop can be used as a slide release. The design/purpose of the slide stop hasn't change in those 100 years.

Ledgehammer
February 9, 2012, 02:41 PM
There's no more metal scraping by releasing the slide than there is by sling shot method. It's called a stop and a release because it does both. Just get over it. There are way more important issues to get your drawers in a bunch over. Like calling a magazine a clip. Now that's just crazy. Sigh...

Seriously that's the way the kahr was designed per the manual. To call it a stop on their gun is wrong. Kahrs are great guns. I highly recommend purchasing one.

Ruger Redhawk
February 9, 2012, 03:30 PM
I bought my first Kahr mid Dec last year. The CM9.I haven't gotten to fire it yet. I very seldom get to shoot anymore. I read the manual and it says about a 200 round break in is required. I have worked the slide a few hundred times. Being honest after reading this thread I'm kinda sorry I bought this CM9. It sure sounds like the Kahr's are hit and miss for reliability.

I was hoping to make it a pocket gun.I won't know until I get to put a few hundred rounds through it. I'm just leery now. My little G27 has been 100% since day one.

Ledgehammer
February 9, 2012, 03:36 PM
Don't let these guys worry you about a gun you haven't even fired yet. You've got a fine firearm there. You're probably good to go.

Ruger Redhawk
February 9, 2012, 04:15 PM
Don't let these guys worry you about a gun you haven't even fired yet. You've got a fine firearm there. You're probably good to go.
Thanks Ledgehammer. I guess I over reacted reading these comments. I've owned enough guns over the last 35 plus years and been on forums enough to learn you read all kinds of complaints. I'm actually impressed with this little CM9 the way it's built and the workmanship. Shooting it will prove one way or another. I had a sharp edge on the front RH side of the ejection port. The Dremel tool took care of that in short order.

hardluk1
February 9, 2012, 04:21 PM
aik492 Remember what you said if you buy a high dollar 1911 that turns out to not like what ever HP ammo you feed it. When I see treads about what hardball they carry makes me think of people that did not take time to work out there pocket pistols too. Most all of these new smaller pistol have had some serious growing issues 380's and 9mm. Can't think of many that did not have problems. And they fix them sooner or later.

Ramone
February 9, 2012, 04:55 PM
I have a Kahr PM9- no issues, but I bought it lightly used (about 400 rounds according to the seller) so it was broken in already...

It's a nice pistol.

I also own a 1911TC- Made by Auto Ordinance, which is owned by Kahr. It is one of the nicest 1911s I have ever seen, has been a top performer for about 6k rounds now. The fit and finish, even internally, is flawless.

This is NOT your fathers Auto Ordinance!

FIVETWOSEVEN
February 9, 2012, 07:15 PM
Faster isn't the point at all. A defensive shooting course sounds in order.

I don't see the point here. I only use over hand when I shoot left handed but right handed I use the slide stop. What would is the point of you mentioning a defensive shooting course?

BrainOnSigs
February 11, 2012, 04:29 AM
It is a smart idea to do something during training that you would want to do during a defensive situation. I would not dare try to use my fine motor skills during such a time, I would only use my gross motor skills.

Some back ground. I take 2-3 defensive shooting courses a year (20+ over the years including Thunder Ranch a couple of times). I took the time to became an NRA instructor plus I shoot competitively. Lots of trigger time....lots of training....plus a couple of real world experiences that opened my eyes.

I am not sure how many here have had to draw a gun or draw a gun and fire it at someone. I can attest to the fact that your hearing and vision change, your hands sweat and a small button on the side of a gun seems to shrink tenfold.

dirtengineer
February 11, 2012, 04:40 AM
I like my CM9.

skt239
February 11, 2012, 09:41 AM
I've owned a few Kahrs in my day, I absolutely love them but also just sold my last one. I just can't get behind the whole slide release requirement. Except for my MK9, ever Kahr I've ever owned would have a mis-feed if I did not use the slide release. This would be ok if I was right handed but as a lefty it just does not work.

FIVETWOSEVEN
February 11, 2012, 02:12 PM
It is a smart idea to do something during training that you would want to do during a defensive situation. I would not dare try to use my fine motor skills during such a time, I would only use my gross motor skills.

It isn't fine motor skills, it's gross. No matter what happens during my reload, I always can hit the slide release. My thumb is high above the slide release in the first place during shooting so it naturally sits there. To release the slide I just slide it down against the gun and hit it. I've never missed the release even when I bugger up my overall reload when I rush things way too fast. I'll stick with what works then what is slower.

jjmc2001
February 11, 2012, 07:43 PM
I just put another 200 rounds through my CW9 this afternoon with no problems at all since purchase. Now over 1,000 error free rounds. Every new mag was slingshotted today with no problems at all. I also own a P380 that has been perfect from day one (I bought it used) with over 300 rounds of the cheapest 380 ammo I could find. Thought I would give it a test and now I have moved on to good SD ammo. Both of these guns are well made and a pleasure to shoot and carry. I would buy many more Kahrs and if I got a lemon I am confident they would make it right. Personally I don't care if you call it a slide release or slide stop-works both ways.

Tomcat47
February 11, 2012, 07:55 PM
:scrutiny: Does it really matter who named it or what they named it...:confused:

It comes to mind that upon firing the last round in the magazine it truly becomes a Slide Stop!

and.......;)

Upon inserting a fresh magazine.....It becomes a Slide Release! :eek:


just sayin!

oso
February 11, 2012, 08:53 PM
let me tell you all about the PM45. the 1st PM45 i bought had every issue FTF,FTE,mags. falling out of pistol while firing,4 mags cracked. i called the dealer whom i purchased the pistol from, he called his distributerer who is davidsons and they replaced the pistol.

PM45 #2 had issues FTF,FTE,4 cracked mags. again, no mags. falling out of pistol. called dealer again, he called davidsons, davidsons sent pistol back to Kahr. when i got the pistol back it still had all the same problems as before it went back to Kahr. so i called dealer again,he talked to davidsons, a rep from davidsons called me, left the option up to me, he would send it back to Kahr again or replace the pistol again. i chose another replacement pistol.

PM45 #3 so far 650 rds. down range,everything from 230 fmj to 185 gr jhp,200 gr jhp 230 gr jhp not a single issue the pistol has performed flawlessly. it is very accurate to. i finally have confidence in the pistol that is my main carry gun which is why i bought it.

now what is interesting from the 1st pistol to the 2nd pistol and the 3rd. pistol each time before having it replaced i took every possible measurement. Kahr had made a lot of changes to the pistol which led me to believe they had a design issue they knew about. the barrel length changed, the slide the muzzle end changed, the opening in the slide changed with 2 additional cuts at some interesting angles, inside the slide where the recoil spring sits there is a different cut. after my expierence with the PM45 every firearm i buy ,i buy through a dealer who uses davidsons as their distributer, it is easier to deal with davidsons than a manufacturer, any manufacturer.

BrainOnSigs
February 12, 2012, 03:17 AM
It isn't fine motor skills, it's gross.

Manipulating a single lever with a single digit is the perfect definition of a fine motor skill.

Again...you will discover how fast your fine motor skills can diminish, what skills you will revert to, and how your mindset can and will be altered during a defensive shooting.

I guess I have worn this subject out and continue to step on people's toes. Enlightenment was my only goal. I will bow out.

My apologies to the original poster for derailing this thread. I own several Kahrs (all purchased since 2009) and they all have been excellent, reliable weapons. If this thread was about Springfields or Glocks or S&Ws or Sigs or whatever....there would be several posts detailing a particular gun's flaws. The majority of modern gun manufacturers build thousands of guns a year that have zero issues. If any manufacturer had an abnormally high rate of failures compared to the numbers sold....then they wouldn't stay in business very long.

usp9
February 12, 2012, 07:40 AM
If the few flaws we all know about were fixed, then the Kahr line would be almost perfect. I've also seen some examples of horrible quality control. There appears to be an acceptance of a "it's close enough" philosophy, allowing too much variance in the product. IMHO, one particular model Kahr should look and function exactly like all the others... but they don't. Roll marks, tool marks, fit and finish can be widely varied and that alone makes me wonder about the really important parts and the overall quality and concern placed on their products.

I own a bunch of Kahrs, like and shoot them, but the company has some room for improvement. My dream; Kahr sends some of their employees to HK to learn about QC and they bring back a new corporate ethos.

DAdams
February 12, 2012, 10:21 AM
I have trust in mine now, but it did have to go back to the factory one time when it was new. During the first break-in attempt to get through 200 rounds it ran like cr@p. Kahr replaced the barrel and springs and it has been fine ever since.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/Flashlights/P6280005.jpg

PM9 with CT and Pearce extension.

jblackfish
February 12, 2012, 10:42 AM
Sorry you had the trouble but what a great end and referral for Davidson's. I own a PM9 and P9 both of which have been perfect from the outset. I'm also a big fan of .45 acp and I want a PM45 to "replace" my PM9 for main carry in the hotter months when getting enough clothes to conceal is difficult. I'm sure there are other distributors that take care of their customers too but how do you know who uses Davidson's and who doesn't? Ask the dealer? (I never thought of anything past whether or not the dealer takes care of its customers.)

red rick
February 12, 2012, 11:42 AM
Mags started dropping out of my P9 around the 200 round count. I called Kahr CS and they sent me a new mag catch. Since I replaced it, no mags have dropped. I still haven't shot it enough to trust it yet.

rferizano
February 12, 2012, 12:05 PM
The Kahr line of pistols are NOT range toys. They are an excellent conceal carry gun by their design and that is all they are.

oso
February 12, 2012, 12:13 PM
yes ask the dealer, davidsons puts a lifetime warranty on all firearms regardless of manufacturers warranty. or go to davidsons website and put in your zip code and there will be a list of all dealers in your area.

jblackfish
February 12, 2012, 12:46 PM
OSO Quote: .................or go to davidsons website and put in your zip code and there will be a list of all dealers in your area.

Thanks, OSO - FYI there's no place to enter a zip code on their site or other way to get a list of their dealers that I could see.

billdeserthills
February 12, 2012, 01:02 PM
Lefties be damned!

If I'm looking at a pistol, I want one that can be used by both arms, with or without the support of the opposite hand. If I have to drop the slide with only my left hand, how am I supposed to do it lefty in a reliable way? I suppose I could try and release it with my left pointer finger like I do on my XD but you lose grip when you do that.
Perhaps a Bersa would fit your bill, the 9,40 & 45 models include ambi slide release

billdeserthills
February 12, 2012, 01:06 PM
Davidson's recently made a change you may not be aware of with their program. Now You get to pay the freight! You might want to save a few bucks & pass on the Davidson's program. I have had several customers who were happier to just send their malfunctioning Davidsons guns to the manufacturer, and have them repaired.

FIVETWOSEVEN
February 12, 2012, 01:44 PM
Perhaps a Bersa would fit your bill, the 9,40 & 45 models include ambi slide release

Some guns like my XD-40, I'm able to use the slide release with my pointer finger of my left hand.

F350Lawman
February 12, 2012, 05:09 PM
I like Kahrs from a size/firepower standpoint and ont he whole they are a well constructed gun. It just seems that they go 99% of the way to making a GREAT gun and then miss something that ruins the entire effort. Here is my story:

I previously owned a PM40 in 2004 or so. The PM40 worked as a shooter BUT would remain (or move later) ever so slightly out of battery. I mean constantly, it would be in the holster slightly out of battery. I don't know what it was..bad springs??? They could not fix the gun and it drove me nuts. Eventually it was returned for good along with my partners PM40 with the same issue. It would function but I can't get around seeing my gun out of battery even if it was 1/16 or 3/32 or whatever (you could see it trust me). In the end Kahr was great and refunded the $$ to the gun shop and I bought my first 1911 variant (on a whim basically). Guess I should thank them I now have 2 and carry one or the other daily :)

So last week my business partner offers me his PM9 Black Diamond nightsighted model for free (I had been looking for a smaller gun to wear tucked with business attire). The gun was never fired and was sitting for 6 years but was well lubed. I cleaned and re-lubed it for good measure. I put 200 rounds through it yesterday, a mix of 75% 115gr ball (flat and round nose), and some 147 Hydra-Shocks I had left over. Gun runs great..BUT the mags suck. Especially the 6 rounder (everyone else has probs. with the 7 go figure?) The second round often..maybe 10% of the time feeds on a horizontal plane and stops the gun from going into battery. A tap on the slide and it is good to go..but come on that mag design sux!

I have Glocks, a Taurus, S&W's, a Colt, Rugers, a Grendel and now this Kahr. With the exception of the Glocks and the Rugers all manufactures have had at least one go back to the manufacturers. I am not picking on Kahr...rather my issue is that it is hard to believe nobody at Kahr saw how these mags functioned?? This was a groundball...cmon' now! Funny the PM 40 mags worked fine and they seem to be the same design if I remember correctly?

I see Promag makes aftermarket mags but they are they extended type. I want a flush 6rnd mag because this guns ONLY benefit over my other choices is concealability. Anyone have a solution?? Anyone play with the mags??? Gun shoots great, carries great and is one good mag away from being a fabulously well hidden carry piece :(

oso
February 12, 2012, 07:56 PM
jblackfish, you have to use the gun genie, and if davidsons did change their policy it must be very recent like within last 2 weeks. i just had another pistol replaced 3 weeks ago i didn't pay a dime.

StockKahr
February 12, 2012, 08:39 PM
I had two problems with my PM9, both of which I could work around, but which, together, led me to doubt whether I could use the gun reliably in a high-stress situation.

First, with my "regular" grip on the gun, my thumb frequently hit the magazine release button during recoil. I could get around that by changing my grip. But second, unless I held the gun with an absolute death grip, I tended to get FTF's. I verified both problems with an instructor at the local range.

Now, if this were my only handgun, or even my only semi-auto, I'd have just changed my grip and kept it. But it isn't, and after shooting for 20+ years, I didn't really feel like I should have to change the way I shoot just to make a weapon I might have to rely on in a life or death situation function reliably. So I traded it for a new Ruger LCR. It goes bang every time, and it doesn't care how I hold it.

In fairness, there are probably lots of other tiny semi-autos that also require a modified death grip to function properly, and I probably wouldn't have had much luck with any of them either. All I know is that I hold my Beretta 92FS, Glock G34, and S&W Model 39 the same way, and I have zero problems with any of them. YMMV.

FMF Doc
February 12, 2012, 09:18 PM
Reliability aside, as any weapon can malfunction, especially with the wide variety of ammo we often feed them these days in the name of saving money, my biggest, and really only complaint with Kahrs is how danged exprensive they are! Didn't used to be that way. I remember when they were newer, and the cheap ones in the case. Now they make some Sigs look economical. I don't think their quaility justifies their price tag. That's my complaint.

saturno_v
February 12, 2012, 10:07 PM
Ok so my impressions so far (maybe wrong, if so correct me please):

- On average no better reliability reputation than Kel Tec

- On average worse CS experience than Kel Tec

If so please give me my $260 trouble free P-11 (backed by a great CS) over the $600+ relatively better finished PM9 any time of the day...

Some people like to waste their money...hey their coin not mine.....


By the way I find absurd to spend 6-700 bucks for a mouse pocket gun....no matter how well finished it is....oops, I forgot.....the PM9 is a plastic gun too anyway.....

To be honest, I find somewhat more justified the $1000 price tag of the Rohrbaugh R9...the little bugger is finished literally like a jewel, it is aircraft grade alluminum and steel construction and at least you get the bragging right to be the smallest of the smallest in a service caliber.

F350Lawman
February 12, 2012, 11:45 PM
If so please give me my $260 trouble free P-11

I have plenty of handguns, so I would not choose a Keltec... it looks and feels cheap to me. Now that may sound harsh and I am sure it works fine, but still the Keltec is not something I would be happy carrying :(

By the way I find absurd to spend 6-700 bucks for a mouse pocket gun

Why???... miniaturization often makes things more expensive, shop for a laptop lately?? You an get a 7 lbs. and 17" laptop for a lot less than a thin and light 13.3 incher. I am sure tolerance$ get to be a real pain in the a$$ when guns shrink as much as they have lately. Also, I don't think any 9mm is a "mouse gun".

Some people like to waste their money...hey their coin not mine.....
I suppose you drive the cheapest car, wear the cheapest watch, etc. I mean hey they all tell time, take you from point a to point b...right? :) No..I bet you wear and drive what you like (within reason). I'm not into wasting money but if I am carrying the thing every waking minute, its money well spent in my book.

I want to get the Kahr PM9 running for the following reasons and not go to another comparable maker/model:

1.Their customer service was good in the past...money back after they couldn't correct the problem to my satisfaction, you can't beat that

2.The fit and finish is good..better than many small guns I have held. Metal work and finish was very good, plastic could have been smoothed a little though. Gun is tight and feels substantial compared to LCP, Keltec, etc. in my hand(again just preference)

3.Price..it was free!(as was my PM40) :)

4. I had the Keltec's predecessor the Grendel P10 and EVEN IT felt slightly nicer than the Keltec (I know that is subjective) but heck its gonna be MY gun :)

5. The gun carries great, thin, flat and smooth sides. (I have holsters for it too)

6. I have no issues with grip and even if I tried to limp wrist (I actually fired while pulling my hand towards body and it functions fine..sans the second round). It is just the second round nosedive with the 6rounder that is an issue regardless of grip, round choice etc.

7. Gun is pleasing to the eye. Now that may be silly but I enjoy carrying it. Same reason my 1911 gets used and my G-19 is mostly in the safe. They are both great, but the 1911 has character and soul! Call my crazy but I really like this gun is nicely done much better than my old two-toner PM40

Now with that said if I can't get it working 100% it will NOT get carried and will be exchanged for a nice gun such as the STI LS9 or maybe even a... gulp... 380 like the SIG P238

http://dfwconcealedcarry.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/KahrPM99mm1.jpg

saturno_v
February 13, 2012, 01:26 AM
I have plenty of handguns, so I would not choose a Keltec... it looks and feels cheap to me. Now that may sound harsh and I am sure it works fine, but still the Keltec is not something I would be happy carrying

They work....perfectly adequate for what they are designed for, close range social work....same size as your PM9 more or less but with 12+1 capability.

I own different handguns from other very reputable manufacturers too (Beretta, S&W, Bersa) and I carry my KT very happily....

Why???... miniaturization often makes things more expensive, shop for a laptop lately?? You an get a 7 lbs. and 17" laptop for a lot less than a thin and light 13.3 incher. I am sure tolerance$ get to be a real pain in the a$$ when guns shrink as much as they have lately. Also, I don't think any 9mm is a "mouse gun".


Do you realize how different the two products are?? Problem of heat dissipation in electronic circuitry imposing completely different components and design....You could not get a more far apart industry.....often in the firearm world small cost more....just because it does and they can charge for that....concealability is seen as a feature to charge for.....sometimes a simple carbine version of a rifle is more expensive....

suppose you drive the cheapest car, wear the cheapest watch, etc. I mean hey they all tell time, take you from point a to point b...right? No..I bet you wear and drive what you like (within reason). I'm not into wasting money but if I am carrying the thing every waking minute, its money well spent in my book.


I had cheaper options for carrying highly concealed...a brand new Taurus snubnose revolver (or a slightly used S&W or Ruger)...even cheaper with a Charter Arms....as much as you probably do not believe it KT are quality guns presenting utilitarian finishing to keep cost down....

My P-11 is tossed in my pocket holster...I do not care if it wears it down, scratches, etc........if you end up in a situation where you need to use it (hopefully never) you could lose your gun...and all I lose is a $260 pistol not a $650+....and do not think for even one minute that yours is more reliable or more durable than mine.....I know it may make you feel better about your purchase but sorry in the real world is not the case....yes it is better finished and probably has better ergonomics or less felt recoil for some (I trade that for my 12+1 pills).....again, for a pocket pistol I rather get something very reliable and proven that works (and I have to be proficient with it obviously) without spending top dollars which I can free up for other purchases.....my P-11 fit that bill perfectly....a match in heaven.

Their customer service was good in the past

The best think about KT supposedly excellent CS is that I did never need it ;)

Price..it was free!(as was my PM40)

Now you have my vote...a free gun.....I love free guns...between a $260 P-11 and a free Kahr PM9, I get the Kahr.... :D

Lawdawg45
February 13, 2012, 10:30 AM
Allow me to add some factual evidence. Our local department here in Indianapolis (IMPD) which has over 1700 Officers, just pulled the Kahr .380 from it's approved off duty list. They cited numerous feeding issues with the Federal JHP ammo including stove pipe jams and FTF's, and this was an issue that the department Armorer's had been watching for over a year. On a personal note, I had a PM-9 which I loved the feel of, but well after the 200 round break in period and a polish of the feed ramp, would barely feed FMJ's, so it went bye bye. Just an FYI;)

LD

jblackfish
February 13, 2012, 10:43 AM
..................................http://dfwconcealedcarry.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/KahrPM99mm1.jpg
The picture you posted is EXACTLY mine - I never particularly liked the two-tone versions either, which most of them are, but mine has been SO reliable that I'd like to get a PM45 just like it. I wonder if some of the ones who had problems - like Lawdawg just posted..and others - were early ones. Seems like too many "early" new issues come out not quite ready to go.

I had that experience with a new model Diamondback .380 and it had so many feeding problems (even with HB ammo) that Diamondback replaced my 1st one with another one that was just as bad. A friend had the same experience with an early Sig P238 - I think both of those guns' problems have since been corrected but my experience has cured me of two things: I've sworn off of the .380 caliber altogether and I NEVER buy a new model gun. It has to be out for a year or more with good comments from users before I'll consider it.

StockKahr
February 13, 2012, 12:30 PM
Allow me to add some factual evidence. Our local department here in Indianapolis (IMPD) which has over 1700 Officers, just pulled the Kahr .380 from it's approved off duty list. They cited numerous feeding issues with the Federal JHP ammo including stove pipe jams and FTF's, and this was an issue that the department Armorer's had been watching for over a year. On a personal note, I had a PM-9 which I loved the feel of, but well after the 200 round break in period and a polish of the feed ramp, would barely feed FMJ's, so it went bye bye. Just an FYI;)

LD
IMPD has to approve what you can carry off duty? Is that common among law enforcement agencies? I confess to ignorance on the subject. Is the PM9 approved?

Lawdawg45
February 13, 2012, 03:50 PM
IMPD has to approve what you can carry off duty? Is that common among law enforcement agencies? I confess to ignorance on the subject. Is the PM9 approved?
Yes, and that's the case with most departments. The PM-9 is currently approved, but the rumor is that all Kahr's will be removed. In fairness I'll say that the Ruger LCP is also on the hit list, as well as Keltecs.

LD

F350Lawman
February 13, 2012, 04:41 PM
The NYPD yanked Kahrs from what I hear, and that is not a good sign. I am retired for 11 years but the info. I got was that it was trigger related not reliability. In fairness, a Keltec would never make the NYPD approved list to start with nor would the LCR/LCP I believe. Not that it makes them bad, but the NYPD gun gurus are so restrictive its crazy.

Yes I hear what many people say about Kahrs cost vs. reliability out of the box and I agree. The most frustrating part is that it is such a great idea and terrific package, but a few more months R&D could have made OUTSTANDING. Its really a shame..now I have to do the final steps of the process:( I am going to try another 200 rounds, at least its an excuse to shoot. :)

On the inexpensive gun note, I think the Taurus Millenium Pros are outstanding. My PT145 is as a great gun. Sort of a poor mna'd Glock if you ask me. At $325+/-Gun is on the low end of the Keltec - Kahr ends of the pricing spectrum.

As far as one posters comments about using it and "losing" it (expensive vs. inexpensive) during the investigation...if there is a prolonged investigation, sadly that will probably be the last of your worries :(

usp9
February 13, 2012, 06:43 PM
The NYPD yanked Kahrs from what I hear, and that is not a good sign. I am retired for 11 years but the info. I got was that it was trigger related not reliability.

The Kahr K9 was removed from the NYPD acceptable firearm list because the trigger is lighter than the required 12# called for, and Kahr refused to make the trigger that heavy. Reliability wasn't a cause.

F350Lawman
February 13, 2012, 09:21 PM
Yes... they don't like any gun that doesn't leave you with a nice "forearm pump" after a good range session! My Ruger SP101 (SPNY actually I think is their version 38/no spur) must have a +/-15lbs trigger pull! :) It does cut down on ND I think, there is no way to pull this trigger unless your really...really mean it.

Armybrat
February 13, 2012, 11:20 PM
Actually if I were to rely on choosing a brand of gun from reading the forums for every make of firearm, I would just buy a crossbow. :scrutiny:

My early Kahr PM9 has never had a problem, and my CW45 is running fine after the breakin.

Paul7
February 13, 2012, 11:48 PM
I'm 0 for 2 with Kahr, IMHO the steel frames are fine but the polymer's are iffy. I now carry a Ruger LCR and Kel-tec .380, both of which are great.

F350Lawman
February 14, 2012, 12:14 AM
WHOA...may have just solved my PM9 issue. Went over to Kahr Talk and some folks had their mag spring installed backwards at the factory (they are flipped front to back in the mag) Once I fixed it the 2nd round in the mag is now MUCH more visible and on an angle much more consistent with round #1. Previously my 2nd round was buried in the mag and almost horizontal. I can't imagine that this won't help the "nosedving". Maybe others should check as well:

http://www.kahr.com/getDynamicImage.aspx?dir=itemImages&path=m_mag_asmbly.gif&width=362&height=362

EDIT: Cant go shoot right now, but gun now feeds from the slingshot easily even when I drag it a little. Just this afternoon slingshotting was a sure nosedive-jam. SO far SO good.

Onmilo
February 14, 2012, 09:40 AM
I wasn't terribly impressed with any of several Kahr pistols people have allowed me to handle and shoot.
I really don't care for the association this manufacturer has with the Har Krishna cult so that is another turn off to this pistol line for me.

FIVETWOSEVEN
February 14, 2012, 10:16 AM
The Kahr K9 was removed from the NYPD acceptable firearm list because the trigger is lighter than the required 12# called for, and Kahr refused to make the trigger that heavy. Reliability wasn't a cause.

Exactly, it was idiot Cops that don't know trigger safety and relied on a heavy trigger to stop them from having a ND then the gun itself.

F350Lawman
February 14, 2012, 02:01 PM
Its the idiots who run the police department...they're not the cops, it's a huge distinction :) The powers that be should spend a few extra days on training rather than who knows how many dollar$ testing and trying to have to fool-proof guns designed.

Lawdawg45
February 14, 2012, 02:31 PM
Exactly, it was idiot Cops that don't know trigger safety and relied on a heavy trigger to stop them from having a ND then the gun itself.

Really? Selection of a firearm for a Police Officer involves considerations that a civilian doesn't necessarily have to contend with. Scenarios where the Officer is running with a weapon drawn, potentially wrestling with a suspect with the weapon out, or retention scenario's are considered when selecting weapons and things like trigger mechanisms. Our minimum here is an 8 pound trigger on Glocks.;)

LD

FIVETWOSEVEN
February 14, 2012, 03:22 PM
Really? Selection of a firearm for a Police Officer involves considerations that a civilian doesn't necessarily have to contend with. Scenarios where the Officer is running with a weapon drawn, potentially wrestling with a suspect with the weapon out, or retention scenario's are considered when selecting weapons and things like trigger mechanisms. Our minimum here is an 8 pound trigger on Glocks.

Weird, most departments in my area run Glocks with a standard 5.5 lb trigger and they aren't shooting themselves, others, or just having NDs without meaning to. The Kahrs were allowed as off duty guns or back ups so they weren't doing all that stuff regularly and that most of the NDs were just fooling around with the gun at home. Finger off the trigger till your ready to shoot isn't that difficult to master. I understand that in the heat of things you can forget things but if you practice trigger safety then you won't break it.

F350Lawman
February 14, 2012, 06:16 PM
Scenarios where the Officer is running with a weapon drawn, potentially wrestling with a suspect with the weapon out, or retention scenario's are considered when selecting weapons and things like trigger mechanisms. Our minimum here is an 8 pound trigger on Glocks.

While agree...the NYPD has taken trigger weight to a new level... Some of the off-duty revolvers were off the charts. They redid the Glock trigger at least twice during my stint and it was good to start with...THEY made it crappy. I think we started at 8 and ended at 12??? The Ruger must be 1.5x as much!

Lawdawg45
February 14, 2012, 08:12 PM
While agree...the NYPD has taken trigger weight to a new level... Some of the off-duty revolvers were off the charts. They redid the Glock trigger at least twice during my stint and it was good to start with...THEY made it crappy. I think we started at 8 and ended at 12??? The Ruger must be 1.5x as much!
Since this is dealing with off duty carry and BUG's, I would venture this is more related to non retention holsters and those without certain safety mechanisms of a duty rig, rather than supposing Officers are "idiots". Our deletion of the Kahr came as an exclusive result of a year long study by the department Armorer, and a consistent pattern of feeding issues.

LD

FIVETWOSEVEN
February 14, 2012, 10:35 PM
I wasn't calling all of them idiots, just the select few that don't understand trigger safety as that was the cause of those NDs and more specifically them just playing with the gun and not actually using it for their work. The gun isn't the issue here, it's the people wielding them. I understand the reliability issues but NYPD got rid of them largely because of the light trigger.

I'm not dissing all Cops, just those select few that shouldn't be handling a firearm.

Maia007
February 14, 2012, 11:13 PM
Do Kahrs "deserve" their reputation as somewhat unreliable? Yes, I think they do. There are simply too many of them that have experienced problems. I base my judgment from hanging out on the KahrTalk forum for the past three or four years where much of the discussion has to do with troubleshooting problems that shooters have with new ones and the various tribulations they go through in getting those problems resolved.

I also think that once you get one working right, the probability is that it will stay that way.

I own four Kahrs, having bought my first one about five years ago. I really like the design and especially the triggers. Three have been terrific from the get go. The one that wasn't (a K9, believe it or not), took several hundred rounds of fooling around with until I finally thought to try a heavier recoil spring. It just would not either feed right or return to full battery with any degree of reliability. I messed about with different ammo, different magazines, different lubrication, etc. After I went to a heavier spring, it was fine and stayed that way.

Lawdawg45
February 15, 2012, 07:02 AM
I wasn't calling all of them idiots, just the select few that don't understand trigger safety as that was the cause of those NDs and more specifically them just playing with the gun and not actually using it for their work. The gun isn't the issue here, it's the people wielding them. I understand the reliability issues but NYPD got rid of them largely because of the light trigger.

I'm not dissing all Cops, just those select few that shouldn't be handling a firearm.

What ND's are you referring to? Are you claiming that NYPD chose a 12 # trigger as a direct result of off duty ND's?:confused:

LD

hardluk1
February 15, 2012, 09:50 AM
maia007 Good thing you did not have one of many 4th gen glocks with issues ,right. Ant one that trust there pistol with out rounning several hundred rounds trouble free is longing for a screw up. Today that can happen with many psitols.


The problems with large departments is the class of officers they have to cull from and the lack of quailty training. Thats the reason a glock might have a 10lb trigger. The officers never learned to keep there finger off the trigger till ready to kill someone. Stress or not it must be learned. Everone remember the youtube cop video of the officer that damnded near killed the BG and did wounded an officer that was sitting on the BGs back cuffing him. THATS the problem, training. For these departments if an officer is to have a backup or off duty fiream it should be a compact version of what they carry and have the same trigger pull weight as there duty gun has. Period. Don't give them any more of a chance to do something stupid than if they were on duty.

Could you imagine how bad it could be if the run of the mill officer had a SA 1911 with a 5lb trigger pull.

Lawdawg45
February 15, 2012, 10:34 AM
maia007 Good thing you did not have one of many 4th gen glocks with issues ,right. Ant one that trust there pistol with out rounning several hundred rounds trouble free is longing for a screw up. Today that can happen with many psitols.


The problems with large departments is the class of officers they have to cull from and the lack of quailty training. Thats the reason a glock might have a 10lb trigger. The officers never learned to keep there finger off the trigger till ready to kill someone. Stress or not it must be learned. Everone remember the youtube cop video of the officer that damnded near killed the BG and did wounded an officer that was sitting on the BGs back cuffing him. THATS the problem, training. For these departments if an officer is to have a backup or off duty fiream it should be a compact version of what they carry and have the same trigger pull weight as there duty gun has. Period. Don't give them any more of a chance to do something stupid than if they were on duty.

Could you imagine how bad it could be if the run of the mill officer had a SA 1911 with a 5lb trigger pull.

Since you've used this same reply on 4 different threads now, maybe you could start giving documented evidence instead of a personal bias.......and Grandpa's off the cuff comment doesn't count as documented evidence. I don't mean to be an a**, but your repeated, factless rant is getting old.;)

LD

FIVETWOSEVEN
February 15, 2012, 01:15 PM
http://www.saysuncle.com/2011/12/12/or-you-could-teach-them-real-gun-safety/

This is one of many links to the same thing. I doubt their NDs are going to be in the news considering how that would make the NYPD look if their officers can't handle their guns.

What ND's are you referring to? Are you claiming that NYPD chose a 12 # trigger as a direct result of off duty ND's?

My understanding is that they started with an 8 lb trigger pull so officers would be used to the trigger pull and then moved up to the 12 lb. What other explanation would there be if they weren't having NDs with the 8lb trigger?

Lawdawg45
February 15, 2012, 05:52 PM
http://www.saysuncle.com/2011/12/12/or-you-could-teach-them-real-gun-safety/

This is one of many links to the same thing. I doubt their NDs are going to be in the news considering how that would make the NYPD look if their officers can't handle their guns.



My understanding is that they started with an 8 lb trigger pull so officers would be used to the trigger pull and then moved up to the 12 lb. What other explanation would there be if they weren't having NDs with the 8lb trigger?
An 8lb trigger comes stock from the factory and the department Armorer could have ordered the change. I truly would like to know the reason/logic behind the switch. I'll see what I can find on officer.com;)

LD

FIVETWOSEVEN
February 15, 2012, 08:23 PM
An 8lb trigger comes stock from the factory and the department Armorer could have ordered the change. I truly would like to know the reason/logic behind the switch. I'll see what I can find on officer.com

LD

I'm assuming you are talking about Glocks that are intended for duty. One gun magazine I read, the writer who is a cop got a G35 to review and it had a 5.5 instead of the 3.5 lb trigger which comes stock in a G34/35. At least that's what I think I know.

Lawdawg45
February 15, 2012, 09:35 PM
I'm assuming you are talking about Glocks that are intended for duty. One gun magazine I read, the writer who is a cop got a G35 to review and it had a 5.5 instead of the 3.5 lb trigger which comes stock in a G34/35. At least that's what I think I know.
Yeah, 8lb is the standard for LE issue, however a department can specify up or down. I carried a PM-9 as a pocket gun for over a year, and I can't imagine an AD with that mile long trigger pull.

LD

hardluk1
February 16, 2012, 09:37 AM
So are your replies. Stop defending a deptment heavy trigger choice. Why would any department change to a heavier trigger pull than a firearm is design with? To stop unwanted shootings? Stress related shootings? To many officers don't get enough practice as is so don't apply that same stress off duty to a person useing different firearm and lighter and different functioning trigger and not except a shots to be fired that was not ment to be. It does not matter the brand . Pick one. You feel differntly , well tough. Your definding a department gets old too. Train the officers to use a glock 5.5 lb trigger or buy some thing very different in design. Maybe some should stay with a older da only pistols long and firm right from the touch instead of the shorter stricker triggers on many pistols. Still allways goes back to training. Get any anyone use to a 8lb or 10lb trigger and then a 5lb or 6lb trigger pull is going to cause problems off duty if they place there finger on the trigger. Just no reason for a 8lb or heavier trigger pull.

Lawdawg45
February 16, 2012, 12:47 PM
So are your replies. Stop defending a deptment heavy trigger choice. Why would any department change to a heavier trigger pull than a firearm is design with? To stop unwanted shootings? Stress related shootings? To many officers don't get enough practice as is so don't apply that same stress off duty to a person useing different firearm and lighter and different functioning trigger and not except a shots to be fired that was not ment to be. It does not matter the brand . Pick one. You feel differntly , well tough. Your definding a department gets old too. Train the officers to use a glock 5.5 lb trigger or buy some thing very different in design. Maybe some should stay with a older da only pistols long and firm right from the touch instead of the shorter stricker triggers on many pistols. Still allways goes back to training. Get any anyone use to a 8lb or 10lb trigger and then a 5lb or 6lb trigger pull is going to cause problems off duty if they place there finger on the trigger. Just no reason for a 8lb or heavier trigger pull.

OK, let's deal with your personal bias one complaint at a time. You claim Officers don't get enough practice, and you've made this claim repeatedly on a national forum, not isolating a specific department or State, so what facts do you base this claim on? As I told you 3 topics ago, here in Indiana, firearms training is weaved in to every single week of our 12 week State/County academy, and our local academy which is 26 weeks. By the time a recruit graduates he/she has fired over 10,000 rounds on the Glock, shotgun and AR. How does that compare to your training, assuming you've had any?

LD

hardluk1
February 16, 2012, 06:10 PM
Have a bit of an idea. i was going to be a florida wildlife officer back in 1976.. Ripped my acl in my 6th week at the training center. 1 really screwed up surgery later and a life of meds and no FWC job.. I grew up hunting fishing with the county sheriff and rode bikes with a few officers from the police department, sheriffs department and the fwl ever other week or when they could. Shoot some indoor matchs tru the year when I could. It is not the training going in thats a concern or the education. Its how they train through out the years or lack of in many departments other than quals during there time as an officer the department. My "training" started at a young age and growing up in a gun culture, 43 years of simple being around and shooting firearms regularly.

The guys I road motorcyles with did practice on there own, We shoot ever other week for an hour. A couple shot with the USPSA back then. Its there words not mine that allways kept the lack of training outside of whats required in my mind. I still say in touch with a couple of them. To many around the state just did not shot outside what was required buy the department. same up there. Most would love to have a range near by to practice on. Even the counties around use have to share time with several other counies and the damd public keeps whin'n about the nose evertime they try to build a new range. Most of them get comfy with the off duty piece and thats that. My old sherrif atleast when I lived there alowed the officers to pick from a group of handgunbrands and did not tie them to a single brand for what they carry on duty and backups they bought at a discount and that could be used off duty. They tended to be a compact version of there duty pistols. I have been gone from there for 15 years now. Still talk with my old police/ sheriff bubby. he bought my last home down there and was the best shot with the city , retired there now with the sherrif depo and is still one of the better qualifiers. i could allways out shot him atleast till i leaft there. he still said most don't shoot outside what the sheriffs depo needs of them.

Now I could care less what is done in indiania. I don't care what you do. I do care how people carry different type handguns that don't train enought as is .with them or out side when needed of them. And when departments supply a handgun that has a trigger pull as heavy as, lets say NY. Then allows the officers to carry something so very different, thats the problem. Some departments have a say in what your back up will be. Maybe more should have a say on what you carry off duty if not your backup when a handgun can a feel and function so differently. I learned 26 years ago from a smithy/retired officer to not change anymore than you can when you carry thru your life. Dam that should be common sence. Officers are no different from most of use. Subject to makeing the same mistakes ,maybe even more so depending on there day to day stress so thats all the more reason not to carry anythig that functions so differenty from your duty pistol.

Now if you still have a problem with that its all your. Thats my view and will allways be the same. Now I am 56 retired and still manage to shoot ever week winter & summer or atleast almost. Now you can continue to praise your ind .leos all you want but not all get to train as much as you think yours must to keep them so highly tuned. when off duty and useing a very different pistol.

Lawdawg45
February 16, 2012, 08:49 PM
Have a bit of an idea. i was going to be a florida wildlife officer back in 1976.. Ripped my acl in my 6th week at the training center. 1 really screwed up surgery later and a life of meds and no FWC job.. I grew up hunting fishing with the county sheriff and rode bikes with a few officers from the police department, sheriffs department and the fwl ever other week or when they could. Shoot some indoor matchs tru the year when I could. It is not the training going in thats a concern or the education. Its how they train through out the years or lack of in many departments other than quals during there time as an officer the department. My "training" started at a young age and growing up in a gun culture, 43 years of simple being around and shooting firearms regularly.

The guys I road motorcyles with did practice on there own, We shoot ever other week for an hour. A couple shot with the USPSA back then. Its there words not mine that allways kept the lack of training outside of whats required in my mind. I still say in touch with a couple of them. To many around the state just did not shot outside what was required buy the department. same up there. Most would love to have a range near by to practice on. Even the counties around use have to share time with several other counies and the damd public keeps whin'n about the nose evertime they try to build a new range. Most of them get comfy with the off duty piece and thats that. My old sherrif atleast when I lived there alowed the officers to pick from a group of handgunbrands and did not tie them to a single brand for what they carry on duty and backups they bought at a discount and that could be used off duty. They tended to be a compact version of there duty pistols. I have been gone from there for 15 years now. Still talk with my old police/ sheriff bubby. he bought my last home down there and was the best shot with the city , retired there now with the sherrif depo and is still one of the better qualifiers. i could allways out shot him atleast till i leaft there. he still said most don't shoot outside what the sheriffs depo needs of them.

Now I could care less what is done in indiania. I don't care what you do. I do care how people carry different type handguns that don't train enought as is .with them or out side when needed of them. And when departments supply a handgun that has a trigger pull as heavy as, lets say NY. Then allows the officers to carry something so very different, thats the problem. Some departments have a say in what your back up will be. Maybe more should have a say on what you carry off duty if not your backup when a handgun can a feel and function so differently. I learned 26 years ago from a smithy/retired officer to not change anymore than you can when you carry thru your life. Dam that should be common sence. Officers are no different from most of use. Subject to makeing the same mistakes ,maybe even more so depending on there day to day stress so thats all the more reason not to carry anythig that functions so differenty from your duty pistol.

Now if you still have a problem with that its all your. Thats my view and will allways be the same. Now I am 56 retired and still manage to shoot ever week winter & summer or atleast almost. Now you can continue to praise your ind .leos all you want but not all get to train as much as you think yours must to keep them so highly tuned. when off duty and useing a very different pistol.

Then maybe you need to narrow your comments to the very limited number of LEO's/departments you've encountered while hunting and fishing. I acknowledge the fact that in your area of rural North Carolina there may be some under-trained rural/small town Officers, but it's not a mainstream problem. Again, this isn't rocket science, off duty guns and BUG's are often pocket carried, vest carried, or in non retention holsters, so it's not out of the question to require higher trigger pull pounds. Is 12 lb excessive? In my opinion yes, but I would research before dissing an entire department or profession.

LD

hardluk1
February 17, 2012, 08:49 AM
What a childish word ,"dis". You are to close minded to think that officers year to year shooting skills could and should be better. You must feel they all get all the shooting they need. Then why do some departsments alter firearms triggers?

For any department to place firearms in the hands of officers with trigger pulls as heavily modified from stock as many do that leaves room for major changes and improvment. If you can't see that ,its your problem. Simple enough. Then to allow them to carry a box stock lighter trigger pull in any pistol of a very different design, well sh*t will happen and does. Don't blame a handgun.

Do you not see the training problem there? Now run your mouth ,or fingers about how great indiana is and how the few leos i know means nothing. It does not take much to realize when some department use a firearm as designed with no modified trigger and then spec what they can carry for backup so that the funtion is the same, some one is paying attention to details. Training will never be enough or done right when pistols are modified from the original design. But i am surely glad to find some that shoot buying ammo out of there own pockets and going to a public range to do so.

Lawdawg45
February 17, 2012, 02:58 PM
What a childish word ,"dis". You are to close minded to think that officers year to year shooting skills could and should be better. You must feel they all get all the shooting they need. Then why do some departsments alter firearms triggers?

For any department to place firearms in the hands of officers with trigger pulls as heavily modified from stock as many do that leaves room for major changes and improvment. If you can't see that ,its your problem. Simple enough. Then to allow them to carry a box stock lighter trigger pull in any pistol of a very different design, well sh*t will happen and does. Don't blame a handgun.

Do you not see the training problem there? Now run your mouth ,or fingers about how great indiana is and how the few leos i know means nothing. It does not take much to realize when some department use a firearm as designed with no modified trigger and then spec what they can carry for backup so that the funtion is the same, some one is paying attention to details. Training will never be enough or done right when pistols are modified from the original design. But i am surely glad to find some that shoot buying ammo out of there own pockets and going to a public range to do so.

Do they get enough practice? Probably not, but at least here they qualify 4 times per year with every weapon they carry.....duty, BUG, off duty, shotgun and AR. This gives the Range Master the opportunity to evaluate their performance and deal with any weaknesses or problems that crop up during the quarter. How does that compare with your training and/or on going education? I'm sorry you mis-interpreted my statements as boasting on Indiana, I was simply replying to your fact-less comment that the Officers had little training. You obviously have an axe to grind with law enforcement and have cloaked it in a pseudo training issue. I'm sure the thread members have grown tired of this pis**** match, so I will bid you good day.:cool:

LD

Fishbed77
February 17, 2012, 11:54 PM
deleted

Doghandler
February 18, 2012, 01:57 AM
I heard Justin Moon was going to show up here with an antithetical and inspirational flip concerning the unholy relationship between the gun manufacturers and the big city mafioso police departments. Unfortunately that didn't happen.

The real question that needs to be answered is, "who is going to claim the body of the dead ignorant slut."

http://cdn.thegloss.com/files/2010/08/jane.jpg

hardluk1
February 18, 2012, 03:37 PM
lawgawg45 Nope wrong again. Most of buddies are law enforcement and were my my old rideing buddies and off time shooting buddies. My last two homes I built were bought by a couple of them also. Been around them most of my life.

FIVETWOSEVEN
February 18, 2012, 04:14 PM
Do they get enough practice? Probably not, but at least here they qualify 4 times per year with every weapon they carry.....duty, BUG, off duty, shotgun and AR.

That's great, can you say the same for NYPD's very large employment? Remember that one case where a guy got shot over 20 times with 9mm before stopping? Is that an example that they get enough practice when they couldn't do the job with the first few hits?

Armybrat
February 18, 2012, 09:51 PM
I really don't care for the association this manufacturer has with the Har Krishna cult so that is another turn off to this pistol line for me.

Then I guess you disdain Walthers, Mausers, AKs, Moisins, etc...?

lol

Ledgehammer
February 18, 2012, 09:56 PM
Picked up my cm9 yesterday. I'm going to the range in the morning. I'll report back results. Bringing 100 federal, 50 wwb and some Winchester jhp's.

Update: range report is good. The CM9 was 100% reliable. I did clean it prior to shooting it. I always do that and believe in it. The only issue I experienced was 1 nosedive when chambering the first round. I had the slide locked back and then inserted the magazine. The manual doesn't recommend that. On the upside I could slingshot the cm9 with no issues, and chambering the way the manual recommends was 100%.

I shot 5yds and 7yds with very nice groups. All in the 9 or better. Recoil wasn't bad at all. A little less than expected actually. I'm happy with the purchase. That being said - it's a very tight gun. I guess it's the spring weight, but I got used to it. Don't be at all afraid to buy a Kahr!

RockyMtnTactical
February 18, 2012, 10:54 PM
I had bad luck with my K9 and countless PM9's it seems... Shot a CW9 that was reliable it seemed though.

usp9
February 19, 2012, 07:04 AM
Kahrs Incorrectly Get Bad Rap
I really don't care for the association this manufacturer has with the Har Krishna cult so that is another turn off to this pistol line for me.

Talk about getting a bad rap...

Pukindog12
February 19, 2012, 07:58 AM
I got a CW9 about two months ago used (200 rounds through it) with an extra mag. I have put over 200 rounds through it to date of various weights and bullet types and not one single problem. If I get another good deal on a Kahr like I did the CW9 I will not hesitate to get another. A fabulous pistol! ;)

Lawdawg45
February 19, 2012, 08:32 AM
That's great, can you say the same for NYPD's very large employment? Remember that one case where a guy got shot over 20 times with 9mm before stopping? Is that an example that they get enough practice when they couldn't do the job with the first few hits?

No I can't, and that was the point of several of my replies, that a blanket statement of all departments isn't fair or accurate. I remember when we were carrying .357's and .44's, and NYPD was issuing 20 year old 6 shot .38's :what::D

LD

gunsnsprinkles
May 22, 2012, 11:39 AM
Just a note to anyone who is thinking about buying a Kahr. I purchased a CW9 that was made about three months ago new from buds guns. The problem is not with BGs but with Kahr.
I took the gun to the range and every other shot the mag fell out and it was not me hitting the MR. I called Kahr and they did send an all metal one to replace the plastic one. I refitted it and that seemed to take care of the problem as it did not happen again, but I then took the CW to the range a third time and the recoil spring broke. I called Kahr and was told I would have to send it back to Kahr on my dime. So to put it in simple terms I had to pay 20 dollars to send the gun back wait 6 weeks for them to look at it for a 2 dollar their cost 8 dollar my cost RS.

Now I will contrast that with two other problems I have just had this week, One of my Smith and Wesson M&P mags was not working correctly and was over stripping the round. I called Smith and they did not even want a serial number, they just said, whats your address and one is on its way. WOW thats service :shock:

The second example of great CS is Glock. I have a 19 2nd gen from about 95 that I purchased new, put it in my safe and have not even broken it in. My brother called me and said he was getting two Glocks and that he had been reading that the guide rods made of plastic seems to be a problem to some owners. I then went to the safe and checked my GR and it was missing about half the round plastic circle that holds the spring on in the rear and fits into the grove of the lug on the bbl. I called Glock and said its and old gun but I really have not shot it, they did not care it was what is the serial no, and one is on its way hope this fixes the problem.

Contrast this CS at Smith and Glock with that of Kahr. I called a third time to Kahr to see if I could get a different agent as maybe this guy with a heavy English accent was just having a bad life. I got him every time and asked why he always answered the phone. He said he was one of two techs for all of Kahr. Well that answers that question. Next I told him I was shooting RAM ammo and was told to stop right there that any reloads void Kahrs warranty. I asked him if it would work for Kahr if I bought two and used them as book ends, if that would keep the warranty alive and well. LOL.

Kahr seems to be loosing their edge as this great company that pays attention to detail and makes a great gun to one that has horrible to non existent CS and guns with problems. To give full disclosure I did have a previous problem with the CW, and Kahr did send me a replacement mag catch all metal that took care of it or at lasted seemed to as I did not get to shoot as much to test it out before the spring broke. But they also have had a lot of problems with this as far as I can read on line although they will most likely not admit it.

So if you are looking for a Kahr, you may want to consider something else. As for me I am going to replace the spring with a wolf spring from midway and then sell it and buy a M&P c or G26, which I should have done in the first place.

PS, I don't have photos of the Kahr spring. I disassembled it at the range and threw it in the garbage bbl. I know I should have kept it, but who would have though that Kahr would have reneged on their product over a 2 dollar part?

Paul7
May 22, 2012, 03:17 PM
I also have no use for plastic Kahrs, my P40 was a nightmare. Kahr finally replaced it, which I sold NIB. I now have a Ruger LCR, which goes bang every time.

billdeserthills
May 22, 2012, 05:54 PM
I don't agree with the title,
& I haven't forgotten the last brand new PM 40 that failed to correctly lock open & ate my thumb. I sent it back & didn't actually get to sell it for another 8 weeks.

gunsnsprinkles
May 23, 2012, 12:08 AM
Well no mater what the problem Kahr will not take care of it, or at least give you crap over your problem. When I am told to pay 20 shipping for a 2 dollar spring on a two month old gun they have got a serious problem with their customer service. I have my cw up for sale and will be buying a G26. When I called Glock and said my G19 had a broken guide rod and it was a gen 2 16 years old the only thing they asked was what your address so we can ship you another. That is customer service. Kahr can kiss my rear end and I will tell everyone the way they treat their customers.

tinroad37e
May 23, 2012, 07:37 AM
All three of my Kahrs have been 100% reliable - PM9, CW45, K9

gunsnsprinkles
May 24, 2012, 08:19 AM
tin, that is not the point, that one or two or a lot of people have a Kahr with no trouble, every gun company can say they have made good and bad products. The big point IMO is that Kahr customer service is crap on a stick. They give shipping labels to some not to others, they deny service because a customer used Ram ammo, and just have a sh*ty attitude over all.

As I said before if you have a good meal at a joint and I get a fly in my soup your experience does little to nothing to make mine any better.

IN
February 24, 2013, 11:49 PM
Update on this thread. I have the nosedive issue with my K9. I am unable to pull off a slingshot to chamber the first round of Speer GoldDot I just bought. I have some old Winchester Supreme SXT that chambers fine no matter what I do, but the nose is of slightly smaller diameter. I emailed Kahr and they said that I must use the slide release to chamber a round. I must say, it make me VERY VERY NERVOUS that a slingshot move is just short of being able to chamber a round when a slide release will. Makes me think that it is just on the edge of being able to do it. Sometimes the edge catches and the slide actually stops and then continues forward like it JUST barely got the round to hop up the ramp. Again, I am scared to carry this as a SD weapon.

At this point I cannot even test fire or buy other ammo, all 9mm carry ammo is sold out everywhere so I am stuck carrying the old Winchester Supreme I have had for 10 years now.

Also I have inside and outside rust on what supposedly is a SS slide. So I am not real impressed at this time with it. I think I'm going to look at other options like a Sig, or a S&W Shield.

hardluk1
February 25, 2013, 03:09 PM
I am so glad so many have problems with kahrs. That just makes it easy for those that like them and have no problems with them to find them for sale.

Coop45
February 25, 2013, 03:25 PM
I am so glad so many have problems with kahrs. That just makes it easy for those that like them and have no problems with them to find them for sale.
LOL!! For sure, I have a P45. PM9. P380 that are flawless and have been since new. If I could just find a P9...........

mnhntr
February 25, 2013, 03:45 PM
Took my parents to the range the other day to get them shooting before their class to get their permit to carry. I wanted them to shoot as many pistols as possible so they could find one that works for each of them. I had all of my pistols, my wife's 642CT, and my buddy loaned me his Glock 36sf. Wouldn't you know my mom says she likes the little 45 glock better than my LCR and the wife's 642. She also liked it better than the HK 45 USPc I carry. So after shooting it was off into the shop to look at what they had. They had the Glock 30 but no 36SF. Then we look at a CW45 and she hands it to me and says this is the one I want. We took it to their house and ran 50 flawless rounds of American Eagle 230gr FMJ through it. Then we ran 25 rounds of my 200gr plated SWC reloads wth 3 FTF. It was the ammo without a doubt. She also shot another 50 flawless rounds to practice mag changes and so forth. She loves it I am very impressed with it. I would recommend this little pistol to anyone. She shot 26 rds for her class without a hitch and is getting her permit.

hardluk1
February 25, 2013, 03:46 PM
Coop45 I wonder why the P series sells for more than the TP series. Same up grades but price is inbetween the P and the CW line. Anyhow if that model is interesting. Lipsey has 2 in stock. My TP 40 cost 543.18 to me thru my lgs. Lipsey- http://lipseys.com/itemfinder.aspx?mfg=Kahr+Arms&family=P9+Series&model=P9&type=Semi-Auto+Pistol


mnhntr Keep those first hundred rounds hot and fmj and that 45 should run fine. I do like a piece of old inner tube for traction on the grip too. Glad your moms happy. I could under stand have feed issues with a SWC bullet.

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