Coyotes In Semi-Rural Area -- Which Caliber & Bullet Type?


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Mike1234567
February 6, 2012, 02:24 PM
I recently moved to a semi-rural area. Most of us live on two acres so my neigbors are pretty close. Also, there's no brick/stone construction... mostly trailers.

I know there are coyotes in this general area but I've yet to see a live one. In fact, I've never seen a dead one here (highway kills) until the last few days... I've seen at least one dead on the highway every day for the last few days. I'm thinking they may be moving through this area now but I don't know. I don't think I'll need to dispatch one near at my home but I'd like to be prepared just in case. There are many small pets that people allow to run free... I don't but I do have an old pug and a dog door leading to a small fence yard. The short fence only serves to keep my dog in. It'll do nothing to keep a coyote out.

I want to encourage coyotes to leave and think twice about coming back should they come through. However, I don't want any collateral damage. Excess noise is a concern too.

The soil in my area is fine sandy loam. There are quite a few trees but it's not deep forest by any means.

AMMO CHOICE: My thought is either Hornady .22 WMR 30gr V-Max or their .223 40gr V-Max.

BTW, I don't own a .17 HMR and would rather not buy one. I MIGHT consider a .17 Rem but I'd really rather avoid buying into another caliber. I'm not all that interested in .22 Hornet either. All this stated, I am open to suggestions.

Lastly, yes I know to not miss nor take iffy shots and to always be aware of what's behind my target.:)

ETA #1: Also posted on the rimfirecentral forum.

ETA #2: I should make it clear that I can be talked into any caliber as long as it really is by far the best fit for my needs.

ETA #3: Rifles I have right now suitable to this task... Remington 597 .22 WMR and RRA with .223 upper 20" barrel 1:8 twist. Also, I have a 12ga Baikal with BB may be suitable?? What about a .410 bore Saiga?

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MachIVshooter
February 6, 2012, 02:42 PM
Well, my instant thought after reading

My thought is either Hornady .22 WMR 30gr V-Max or their .223 40gr V-Max.

Was to split the difference with a Hornet. But you don't want one, so let's look at your other possibility (which happens to be my predator rifle of choice)

The .17 Rem's biggest advantages are 1)usually no exit hole, so pelts are pristine and 2) very low ricochet probability; Those little 20 and 25 gr. bullets at over 4,000 FPS disintegrate when they hit earth and 3) virtually no recoil

It also has an extremely flat trajectory.

If you get into the .17 Rem, I can pretty much assure you you'll fall in love with it.

They are, however, kind of a PITA to load. It's challenging to handle those tiny bullets, and extruded powders tend to get crossways on the case mouth. Lots of spilled powder is just a fact of life loading for this cartridge.

They're also just as loud as a .223. If noise is a concern, that's where the Hornet shines. It is about the same noise level as .22 WMR.

The WMR will work with good shot placement, but I feel it's pretty light for 25-40 pound animals beyond 50 yards or so.

mes227
February 6, 2012, 02:53 PM
I live in a semi rural area, houses a little closer together but with lots of forest service land mixed in. Coyotes are frequent visitors and I hear or seem them weekly. I have two cockers I love more than some of my children ad I make sure the coyotes know there's a price to be paid for "hunting" my family. I keep an Itaca M37 16ga with 000 Buck at the front door and a SW Governor, with .410 buck at the back. And when I hike with the dogs I carry either the Governor or a Ruger LCR with .38+P or .357M. I've sent several coyotes back into the woods with an arse full of lead and each time I do the homestead is coyote-free for a few weeks. They're annoying but they aren't stupid!

Mike1234567
February 6, 2012, 03:12 PM
I edited my OP to reflect that I CAN be talked into another caliber and to add that noise is also a concern.

husker
February 6, 2012, 03:15 PM
I shoot the Fiocchi 223 40 grain V-max. Box of 50 at Guns Unlimited in Omaha runs around 15 bucks.

husker
February 6, 2012, 03:17 PM
Mike1234567 what rifles do you own now? Shotgun can be a great yote rig to. Dont count them out.

baylorattorney
February 6, 2012, 03:20 PM
.222 rem. I just dispatched a yote this morning. Know your target and beyond!


Waste not want not. :)

helotaxi
February 6, 2012, 03:27 PM
A 3" 12ga with Heavi-shot Dead Coyote loads will take care of business out past 75 yds or so. It will also do double duty for 2-legged varmints.

bejay
February 6, 2012, 03:38 PM
why not just use a 22 rimfire.

barnetmill
February 6, 2012, 03:44 PM
The coyotes about my way are mainly around it seems at night. My future solution will be a couple of bulldogs and some night vision coupled with some sort of electronic calling system to get them closer to the house at night. I think a 12 ga shotgun with #2 birdshot or bb's will do fine. Rifle's have too much range to be safe in a settled area.

theicemanmpls
February 6, 2012, 03:46 PM
Pugs are a favorite meal for coyote. Before getting a rifle to take care of Mr Coyote make sure you are not in violation of any laws regarding discharge.
Two acres between dwellings is not very much. It may not be wise to use center fire ammo. Rim Fire travels a good deal also.
Anyway you can go to an area down the road, that is less populated, and call the coyote in? You could stake your pug out as bait.
You may have to find another way to take care of the problem.

Mike1234567
February 6, 2012, 03:51 PM
Mike1234567 what rifles do you own now? Shotgun can be a great yote rig to. Dont count them out.

I edited my OP to reflect what calibers I have that are suitable for varminting... (edit #3). I suppose I could use a shotgun with BB. I just want to avoid too many projectiles flying around.

why not just use a 22 rimfire.

.22LR might be okay much of the time due to the loose sandy soil but there are some rocks and other hard debris such as tree limbs... so I'm worried about ricochet. Also, when the sand is wet due to rain it's more prone to ricochet, I think.

barnetmill
February 6, 2012, 03:53 PM
You could stake your pug out as bait.
Your pug would be a nervous wreck after the first couple hunts. Toy dogs still have their senses intact and would know if they were being stalked or not. A neighbor walks his C. Spaniel at night and the dog does know when there are coyotes about and it acts scared. A pug is small enough that maybe even a fox would also be interested.

barnetmill
February 6, 2012, 03:59 PM
.22LR might be okay much of the time due to the loose sandy soil but there are some rocks and other hard debris such as tree limbs... so I'm worried about ricochet. Also, when the sand is wet due to rain it's more prone to ricochet, I think.
If you use a .22LR use the longest barrel you can get with subsonic hollow point ammo and your rifle's report will be like from a powerful pellet gun. Use a very accurate rifle since you need to place your shots well if you want to take a coyote humanely. The fact that you are seeing deadones suggest disease is about. Be especially careful of rabies. Me when something like a raccoon dies I dig a hole next to the animals and with a stick push it in. After filling in the hole you need to cover it with something heavy or it will get dug up and eaten by other hungry critters.

Mike1234567
February 6, 2012, 04:00 PM
RE: My pug as bait.

LOL!! Nahh... I don't think so. I'm more likely to put myself out as bait than him.:D

jpwilly
February 6, 2012, 04:00 PM
22WMR or 17HMR would do quite nicely.

Mike1234567
February 6, 2012, 04:03 PM
If you use a .22LR use the longest barrel you can get with subsonic hollow point ammo and your rifle's report will be like from a powerful pellet gun. Use a very accurate rifle since you need to place your shots well if you want to take a coyote humanely. The fact that you are seeing deadones suggest disease is about. Be especially careful of rabies. Me when something like a raccoon dies I dig a hole next to the animals and with a stick push it in. After filling in the hole you need to cover it with something heavy or it will get dug up and eaten by other hungry critters.

RE: .22LR.... I do worry about ricochet so I'd like to find something that nearly garantees bullet disintegration every time.

RE: Dead Coyotes... Those have all been road kills on the highway about 4-6 miles away as the crow flies.

theicemanmpls
February 6, 2012, 04:03 PM
Pugs are not my favorite as one killed my daughters cat. It was not a good thing to deal with.

Salmoneye
February 6, 2012, 04:12 PM
Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote Loads

12 gauge...I prefer the 3" in size 'T'...

70 yard rolls...

http://www.hevishot.com/catalog/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=89

Mike1234567
February 6, 2012, 04:27 PM
Pugs are not my favorite as one killed my daughters cat. It was not a good thing to deal with.

I'm sorry about your daughter's cat.

I adopted a kitten recently and my old pug just ignores it. He doesn't have a mean bone in his body. The cat is fully grown now and tries to play with the dog but, again, he just ignores it. I do sometimes catch him sleeping snuggled up against the cat's cage though.:D

I'll look into the suggested shotguns loads. It'd be nice to have something quieter than a 12ga though.

BTW, I do have a Saiga .410 bore too.

denton
February 6, 2012, 05:15 PM
Most semi-rural areas have laws against discharge, so make sure you don't run afoul of those.

My solution would the something very simple: 22LR shooting CCI Velocitors. Those who claim to know say that they have a significant knock down advantage over regular 22LR.

My second choice would be 30-45 yard shots with 20 gauge turkey loads.

223 is too much gun for an area with 2 acre lots.

12Bravo20
February 6, 2012, 08:20 PM
If you all ready have a .410 shotgun, try using either buck shot loads or slugs through it. Either a 17hmr or 17M2 will work too.

snakeman
February 6, 2012, 08:23 PM
I would seriously consider the 204 with barnes varmint grenade bullets or one of the centerfire 17s these bullets will explode upon impact and ricochets SHOULD not be possible.

Mike1234567
February 6, 2012, 08:42 PM
My suspicions were right. I spoke to a neighbor tonight who told me that another neighbor a couple houses down saw a coyote on their property about three weeks ago. That's only about 1000 yards away from me. Also, I've noticed all the neighbors' loose dogs have been agitated lately. My neighbors have lost pets in the last couple weeks and they don't know where they went. I feel the need to step up my vigilance.

mljdeckard
February 6, 2012, 08:45 PM
I thought the same thing as MachIV, a .22 Hornet would be great one for this, you don't need a lot of range.

Mike1234567
February 6, 2012, 08:55 PM
Yeah... maybe I need to buy a .22 Hornet... or .22K-Hornet. However, by the time I find a rifle and ammo, the threat may be gone. True, it may return...

What do I do for NOW??

What I have on-hand is .22 WMR w/ 30gr V-Max or .223 w/ 40gr V-max. I don't want to damage my neighbors' property or cause other collateral damage.

Dmitri Popov
February 6, 2012, 08:57 PM
Sounds like a job for a shotgun. Make sure not to use steel shot or the like to cut down on possible ricochets. Saiga would be good for quick follow up shots, 12ga would be nice for the higher amount of shot going down range.

If your a good shot you could use .22 shorts out of a rifle, very quiet. Bust them in the head, should work.

Mike1234567
February 6, 2012, 09:00 PM
Shotgun?... 12ga or .410 bore? I keep #4 buckshot for either for HD but I think it's a bit much for coyote with close neighbors. I'd probably opt for BB for coyote. This would be at shorter than 100 yard range.

303 hunter
February 6, 2012, 09:11 PM
The 22 mag ballistic tip ammo does not seem to ricochet as badly as solid bullets as it breaks up more on impact. Also, the more interaction you have with bold coyotes, the more nocturnal they become. I had one dig into my dog pen late one night. I heard a commotion and went outside with my 45; the Great Dane had already taken care of the problem!

MachIVshooter
February 7, 2012, 12:10 AM
I CAN be talked into another caliber and to add that noise is also a concern.

Well, the .218 Bee is in the Hornet class. But talk about a handloading proposition.....

The little Hornet has hung on for 80 years for a good reason. It's used all over the world (called 5.6x35R across the pond). Whatever reason it is you don't want one, I suspect you'd quickly change your mind if you bought one. It's a dandly little cartridge that fills a useful niche between the rimfires and the .222/.223 class.

Mine sure isn't going anywhere, and another could certainly find a home here at some point.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Hunter2506/101_1263.jpg

shiftyer1
February 7, 2012, 12:53 AM
I would also choose a shotgun, your worried about noise so choose the .410. I wouldn't hesitate to use to .22 mag either. I can't give you first hand knowledge of the 22 mag on coyotes but just bought one for a varmit gun and I know i'll try a coyote or 2 with it. For the last 2 years my general around the house varmit gun has been a marlin levergun loaded with 38's and 3 .357 rounds. I figure if I haven't gotten it done with a few .38's those .357's might come in handy.

Fullboar1
February 7, 2012, 02:29 AM
We don't have Coyotes here in Australia but I have wacked plenty of Dingo, Wild Dogs and Foxes. IMHO you have the perfect round for a Dog problem in a semi rural area, the good old 22mag will do the job easy out to 150-175 yards or more with a chest or head shot with decent ammo like CCI Maxi-Mag Hollowpoints out at that distance I wouldn't worry about the bullet exiting to much, although it can but not often just check what is beyond your target.

4895
February 7, 2012, 02:39 AM
A friend of mine shoots coyotes with a Ruger 10/22 and an ear shot. Personally, I like a M1 .30 carbine for short range "quiet" work. I would stay away from the "exotic" rimfire cartridges unless $$ isn't a big deal. I think your .22 wmr is more than sufficient. About the only think else is a 22 hornet. Why don't you try finding the coyotes and take a shot with the .22 wmr you already have? Then you will know how effective the round is, how easy coyote are to kill (they aren't Canadian wolves), and how smart those flea bags really are.

If you want to keep pass through kills down, you may need to find an explosive fragmenting bullet, like a Barnes Varmint Grenade. They don't come out the other side.

2zulu1
February 7, 2012, 02:47 AM
If neighbors are letting their pet dogs run free, they are probably more of a threat than coyotes.

DNS
February 7, 2012, 03:16 AM
Kinda surprised about the .223 and Hornet suggestions considering the distance to your neighbors.

I'd have to agree with the shotgun idea.

StrawHat
February 7, 2012, 06:08 AM
A 38 Special with handloaded wadcutters (900 fps) is good for coyotes. Fairly quite and easily transported.

Matthew Courtney
February 7, 2012, 09:22 AM
The safest way to manage your issues without sacrificing range is to shoot from an elevated position, making the ground right behind your target a bullet trap.

Mike1234567
February 7, 2012, 10:08 AM
For those curious why I don't "want" to buy into another cartridge: Plain and simple, it's money. The less common cartridges cost more for both the rifle and for the ammunition. After a little looking it seems that I'll be out approximately $1000US for a rifle and a cache of ammo in .22 Hornet. Of course, if I begin reloading then ammo costs will be moot. Also, I just prefer cartridges that are very common in my area. Lastly, I prefer auto loaders. My .22 WMR is a Remington 597 and the .223 Rem is an AR-15. I haven't yet found a .22 Hornet in an autoloader and, if they exist, I suspect they're pricey.

The above stated, I do understand that my best option may be a .22 Hornet or similar. I'm just hoping I can safely use what I already have.

RE: Elevated Position... I guess I could buy a small elevated hunting blind but my guess is the coyote(s) would be gone by the time I climb up there.

After comments about .223 Rem, .22 WMR and shotguns... I've narrowed my options to .22 WMR w/ BT ammo, .410 bore shotgun w/ BB shot or .22 Hornet w/ BT ammo.

ETA: What do you folks think about .17 Rem with 17gr BT ammo?

MachIVshooter
February 7, 2012, 06:58 PM
What do you folks think about .17 Rem with 17gr BT ammo?

I've never seen 17 gr. bullets for .17 rem as factory loaded ammo or just bullets.

The 17 gr. bullets made for the .17 rimfires probably wouldn't even make it to the target if fired from a .17 Rem. They're not meant to go 4,500 FPS.

Mike1234567
February 7, 2012, 07:04 PM
^^^ Yeah, they may shed their jackets at that velocity.

What do you suggest then?

jpwilly
February 7, 2012, 07:06 PM
Of those I'd go 22WMR...

theicemanmpls
February 7, 2012, 07:15 PM
Here is some info on the subject from a KSU. Best to know your prey before hunting.

http://icwdm.org/Publications/pdf/Coyotes/coyoteunderstandingKSU.pdf

MachIVshooter
February 7, 2012, 07:34 PM
What do you suggest then?

I use 20 gr. HPs and a 23 gr. charge of H322 that pushes them out of my 22" 700 LVSF at 4,245 FPS.

Death ray on 'yotes

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Hunter2506/101_1133.jpg

HB
February 9, 2012, 04:17 PM
Most of us live on two acres so my neigbors are pretty close

That sounds very close to me, anything more than a shotgun would be a problem unless its very hilly.

HB

Mike1234567
February 9, 2012, 08:33 PM
Yes, too close for comfort. It's "somewhat" hilly but nut very much. The soils is fine sand so that helps but I worry about hitting a rock and causing a ricochet. It's beginning to sound like my best option is a .410 bore shotgun with BB pellets.

BrocLuno
February 9, 2012, 09:45 PM
.22 Hornet would be your friend :)

Fullboar1
February 9, 2012, 10:13 PM
ETA: What do you folks think about .17 Rem with 17gr BT ammo?

If you want to buy and use a 17rem you might as well use your 223. Theirs at least a few problems with that (buying and using a 17rem).
1. the 17rem is going to probably be louder then your 223
2. you have to buy another gun and ammo (which you don't want to do)
3. by all accounts the 17 cals are a PITA to reload plus you will have to buy some reloading gear for it (dies ect).
4. factory ammo would probably be hard to find unless its a good LGS (you wont find it at your Wall Mart or Hardware shop).

If you don't want to use you 223 because you are worried about the bullet exiting and hitting who knows what, you can get some really good ammo with frangible bullets for the 223 or you could download it but IMO you have a 22mag that will do what you want without all the other problems
1. buying another gun, scope and ammo
2. just about anyone thats sells ammo will have 22mag
3. excessive noise
4. reloading and buying reloading gear.

Onmilo
February 9, 2012, 11:12 PM
.223 is a good choice IF you know your backstop areas.
If you have houses or outbuildings within 200 meters, I would choose the .22 Magnum or a carefully loaded .22 Hornet.

VancMike
February 10, 2012, 12:06 AM
Seems like I read recently about a frangible 22 round, but can't recall where.

In the meantime, if you have a handgun, you might consider Glaser Safety slugs. Expensive per shot, and not as accurate as a rifle, but a handgun is handier, and the Glaser will not ricochet, ever.

I bought some Russian-made buckshot intended for Saiga's .410....3 pellets/shell. Cheap, and would probably work pretty good at close range. Not sure about the ricochet possibilities, though.

788Ham
February 10, 2012, 12:24 AM
Don't waste your time with a .410! Get your 12 ga. out, load it with some #2 buck and blaze away, those yote's will have more to worry about carrying that stuff around, and don't worry about all of those pellets flying around, they're not '06 bullets!

Mike1234567
February 10, 2012, 01:39 PM
Please keep the suggestions coming, folks. I'm mulling this over very carefully.

Steel Horse Rider
February 10, 2012, 01:49 PM
.38 Special in a lever gun. I think that would be far more lethal to a coyote sized animal than the .22 or .17 without being much more of a risk to the neighborhood. Maybe if you are lucky you can find a pre-Remington Marlin 1894 or 1894C.

MachIVshooter
February 10, 2012, 06:49 PM
.38 Special in a lever gun. I think that would be far more lethal to a coyote sized animal than the .22 or .17 without being much more of a risk to the neighborhood.

Varmint bullets fired from high velocity rounds tend to blow up when they hit just about anything, ground included. Handgun bullets have a much higher ricochet probability.

A .17 Rem or .223 (or .22 Hornet, .204, .22-250, etc) is also much less likely to effectively penetrate a house if it did hit one.

marineimaging
February 12, 2012, 08:02 PM
.22 WMR Savage with Accutrigger and scope is my option.

451 Detonics
February 12, 2012, 09:35 PM
I have it easy...Indiana allows suppressors for varmint and predatory animals like coyotes so I use my 300 Whisper...very quiet and the 200 grain slug really puts them down when I need to be stealthy.

I think I would look hard at the 357 or 44 mag Ruger bolt gun. Either would do very well at rural ranges.

JTJones
February 12, 2012, 09:54 PM
You might want to use your 223 with Winchester PDX 1 ammo. The outer core made to frag.

MachIVshooter
February 12, 2012, 10:14 PM
The outer core made to frag.

Can we say oxymoron? lol

TexAg
February 12, 2012, 10:42 PM
200 grain rifle bullets and heavy pistol bullets are much more likely to ricochet folks. I live on 4.33 acres and it's fairly hilly, horses all around. I don't want to be stuck with a vet bill or worse. I use rat shot for rats and snakes (even possum close up! (.45acp shot shell btw)) and .22 wmr V-max or 12 gauge with #1-4 buck or 3" Turkey load for anything bigger. If I were on 2 acres I'd feel like the 12 gauge with #4 buck, T, BB or # 4 Birdshot would definitely be the way to go.

denton
February 12, 2012, 11:30 PM
Steel Horse Rider's suggestion is a good one.

I load 125 grain cast lead bullets at 1250 fps in my Marlin 357/38 Spl. With a Marlin lever action, there is quite a bit of data that says that accuracy falls off badly above this speed.

Basically what you have is a 22LR speed bullet with about 3X the weight. No coyote is going to shrug that off. Yet recoil and report are very minimal.

A while back on another board, there arose a discussion about which 22LR ammo was the most deadly. With a bunch of different very high velocity options available, there was a strong consensus that CCI Velocitors were the winner. They hang together well, and penetrate well. A 22LR bolt action with Velocitors should also be very effective, but not as effective as 38 Spl.

I still worry about shooting even a 22LR in the area you describe, but you're the one that understands the local situation. Many states have restrictions on how far you have to be from a home or from a shed or corral where livestock is kept. Be mindful. Or, failing that, some of us will come see you on visiting day. :)

Mike1234567
February 13, 2012, 10:17 AM
^^^ LOL... I hear you. I've talked to my neighbors and I think most would agree to ridding our area of interlopers. There are many loose pets and dozens of children who live here. Also, one of my local sheriff deputies lives one block over. I've spoken to the local sheriff and he's a common sense type.

denton
February 13, 2012, 10:57 AM
My mistake:

My 38 Spl round is not loaded to 1250 fps. They are a mild plinking load that gives about 750 fps out of a snubby revolver. So I would guess they might be 950 fps out of a rifle. So.... subsonic, not to noisy, and I think deadly on song dogs.

Nobody's pet is safe when coyotes are around. When I lived in Nevada, neighbors were constantly losing dogs.

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