ar-15 trigger


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slayfire
February 7, 2012, 11:59 AM
I am looking for some opinions on a trigger for my ar. The stock bushmaster trigger is incredibly bad. Two triggers I am thinking about right now are:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/564523/timney-trigger-ar-15-small-pin-154-3-lb-single-stage-solid?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc
and
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/405650/jp-enterprises-competition-trigger-ar-15-small-pin-154-3-lb-single-stage-matte?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc

Has anyone used the jp trigger? I don't want to spend a lot of money, yet I want a good trigger with no creep and a crisp break.

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El Vaquero
February 7, 2012, 01:33 PM
I am looking into a new trigger myself. I think the timney would be i wuld go with...now a quick noob question, what is the difference between a single stage and a two stage trigger? and are any special tools needed to install the new trigger?

browningguy
February 7, 2012, 01:33 PM
I have the JP and love it. I also have a RRA match and two Chip McCormick drop-ins in other AR's which are also good. I have not shot the Timney but people say they like it, I have Timneys in a couple of custom Mausers and they work good in those applications.

To be honest I don't think you can go wrong with anything built by JP.

MythBuster
February 7, 2012, 02:03 PM
The RRA trigger is the best buy for the money spent.

gotigers
February 7, 2012, 02:47 PM
I like my Timeny 3-1/2lb. It has a very short pull and an even shorter reset. The installation is easy enough, but i don't like the 2 little jam set screws that are used to lock it down. If they back out, it could be a pain. It hasn't been an issue since i got it last year and about 12 3 guns matches. I think i will go with the geissele S3G next time. I like the 3 piece design of it better. It is assembled more like a standard trigger.

I prefer a single stage in action type matches.

Captains1911
February 7, 2012, 02:53 PM
I have a 4lb Timney on my precision AR and am very happy with it. It's clean and very crisp. I probably would not put one on a hard use or defensive rifle though. Installation is simple, it drops right in. Use blue loctite on the set screws.

slayfire
February 7, 2012, 03:00 PM
That is good to hear about the jp, how long have you used it? I will look into the RRA. I have two timney in custom mausers, and they are great. The price point is what was turning me away for my ar.

tahunua001
February 7, 2012, 03:22 PM
I have an AR with a rock river 2 stage and it is really nice. it pushed my gun to sub MOA groups. the only trigger I've seen rated higher than the RRA is geiselle (I butchered that) and it costs about twice as much as the RRA in some cases.

jem375
February 7, 2012, 03:26 PM
I have a JP trigger on one of my AR's, but I think I will try a Chip McCormick drop in trigger on my other one that I just put together....

HJ857
February 7, 2012, 03:54 PM
I've read that the RRA match trigger wears out quickly. I wasn't convinced until mine crapped out. It was very nice for 5k rounds or so, then I noticed that the difference between the first and second stages was less distinct. From there it was a rapid decline until it became a single stage trigger. However, for the price it's a great trigger, as long as you don't expect it last a real long time. I liked it enough that I replaced it with another RRA.

I also have a Jewell trigger which is a lot more expensive and a bit more difficult to install. It has first and second stage, and over travel adjustments, and it really is a much nicer trigger than the RRA match. It's also lasted a great deal longer than my RRA match trigger and is not showing any signs of degradation. The Jewell has been around a good long time now, but no longer has the "flavor of the month" sexiness like Geissele is enjoying. Worth a look in any case.

gotboostvr
February 7, 2012, 05:46 PM
http://www.algdefense.com/

If you're willing to wait a bit, this company was started by Amy Geissele to produce great triggers at a decent price point. They're using standard trigger components polishing and hard lubricating them and throwing in a bunch of Geissele spring and the such.

From early reports they seem to be what most people want, just a very nice single stage trigger, for not too much money. Expect the same durability and maintenance routine (read minimal) of the standard trigger.

I'm gonna order a few once they hit the market.

C-grunt
February 7, 2012, 05:51 PM
http://geissele.com/supersemi-automatic.aspx

My firend has this trigger and it is amazing. Or wait for the way cheaper ALGdefense trigger.

Taurus 617 CCW
February 7, 2012, 06:09 PM
I second the Geissele triggers. They are excellent. My favorite is the SD-3G with a flat face. I didn't think much of it until I started shooting one and fell in love with it.

GLShooter
February 7, 2012, 06:46 PM
I have two 3 pound Timneys on my varmint AR's and use the same lowers in IPSC 3 Gun at times. Excellent triggers IMHO. I have about a half dozen other custom triggers and these are as reliable as the others.

I recently purchased a new Giselle High Speed Trigger to shot in F-class. I put the Match Trigger spirings in it and spent about an hour getting all the adjustments to my liking. I have been working up loads with it off the bench (6X45 BHW 24") and it is by far the best trigger I have ever shot on an AR!! I am scrounging in the couch for nickles and dimes to buy another one so I can have to truly match grade lowers available for my long range shooting.

Greg

Red Cent
February 7, 2012, 07:27 PM
GL, you're gettin' too old to keep up with us young'uns. Quit wastin' your money.

RainDodger
February 7, 2012, 07:28 PM
So... to all of you.... save yourself a bundle of $$. Pull out your trigger group and send it to Bill Springfield in Colorado. (http://www.triggerwork.net/) He did both of my ARs and they're amazingly nice. No creep, with clean breaks right at the poundage I asked for. Look at the packages he's got put together before spending a couple hundred bucks on something you may not need.

I had him do an original A2 of mine, as well as a brand new M&P 15. Turnaround time was something under 2 weeks, door to door. I've never met him other than in email, but if/when I get another AR, the trigger group goes to him first thing.

GLShooter
February 7, 2012, 07:42 PM
Hey Red. Check the hangy downs in these pics:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/GLShooter/RELOADING%20ROOM/DSC02742.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/GLShooter/RELOADING%20ROOM/DSC02757.jpg

That's 70 + medals swinging in the wind. I'm head'n for Tucson in April and hope to add at least a half dozen more. I'm gon'na whip some young LEO and Fire Fighter butt!!

61 years old going on 30 when that buzzer beeps!! :evil:

Greg

PS: Thanks for always making me feel welcome. :D

slayfire
February 7, 2012, 10:33 PM
Thanks for the link to Bill Springfield! That looks like a really good deal. Question though: I have read that polishing/grinding AR triggers is inadvisable because they are only surface hardened, is this true?

Z-Michigan
February 7, 2012, 10:39 PM
I have read that polishing/grinding AR triggers is inadvisable because they are only surface hardened, is this true?

Yes, it is true. Do a google search on "Bill Springfield trigger problems" before you go that route.

ALG Defense is promising. I have several Geissele triggers and all of them are great. The SSA runs about $170 and is just terrific. I've used the RRA and the SSA is (IMHO) far smoother and crisper, though not lighter.

P-32
February 7, 2012, 10:53 PM
I would just bite the bullet and go Geissele. It just doesn't get ant better than this. I have tuned RRA 2 stage triggers but the Geissele 2 stage feels way better. I would think the single stage would be super.

Flintknapper
February 7, 2012, 11:10 PM
I went Geissele SSA and really like it.

helotaxi
February 8, 2012, 12:14 AM
The Jewell has been around a good long time now, but no longer has the "flavor of the month" sexiness like Geissele is enjoying. Worth a look in any case.I'd hardly call the Geiselle a "flavor of the month". They've been around for a good long time as well and for good reason. Pull characteristics notwithstanding, their Hi-Speed series has a quantifiable advantage over everything else out there in the form of reduced lock time. Going back to shooting even one of the "enhanced" mil-spec triggers on another rifle after shooting my Service Rifle with the Geiselle installed makes me cringe. The RRA I have on another rifle doesn't even compare either. The Geiselle may cost 2x the price of the RRA but IMO it is at least 2x as good.

wingman
February 8, 2012, 12:25 AM
I purchased the Geissele SSA-E for my AR pricy but worth it in my opinion, groups improved immdiately,quality trigger, easy to install and if I ever sell rifle I will simply pull the Geissele and replace with stock trigger.

DoubleTapDrew
February 8, 2012, 12:26 AM
Geissele isn't a flavor of the month trigger for sure. They are the only aftermarket trigger approved by the US military. I put one in my AR and it's amazing.
I also have a AR in 308 with the RRA 2-stage trigger. It's pretty nice (not as good as the geissele), but I worry it'll fail eventually from all the reports I've seen. We'll see.
I want to order some ALG triggers for the rifles that I can't justify the price of a geissele for (and I want a single stage trigger on those).

vtbluegrass
February 8, 2012, 12:36 AM
http://www.precisionfirearms.com/40.html

If you go with Tmney or Giesselle this is a better price than Midway. I just got my 3lb timney and a custom upper I am very happy with today. You might have inquire about whether or not its in stock, but it appears they are on backorder with Midway anyhow.

slayfire
February 8, 2012, 08:54 AM
I wont be ordering the trigger from midwayusa due to pricing, I just find that it is easier to find what I am looking for there. Most Geissele triggers are not quite what I am looking for; this is a target/varmint gun. They have their Hi-Speed National Match, but that is even more expensive. I am also not sure if I want to go with a 2 stage. I have used them on other people's guns but not my own.

Tirod
February 8, 2012, 09:15 AM
No doubt the usual issue trigger kit isn't so hot. I've had decent ones attached to issue rifles, but the LPK's coming out in kits or rack grade guns aren't that good.

One specific trait many of the better triggers have is an adjustable reset screw, to shorten up the amount of creep. Most precision bolt guns have had them for decades, and they've become standard on hunting rifles, too.

Since they reduce reset about 80% when properly adjusted, they don't have the creep, either, and that means a lot of the grit is eliminated, too. It's just the last 20% of travel that counts, then. My AGP lower came with it already installed, the before and after are night and day. Short reset, a nubbin of creep, and all but one trickle of grit left. Much improved for a hunting AR.

The triggers on AR's are designed for military use and to keep soldiers from tinkering with them, so the hammer spring loads the trigger weight. Reducing it reduces hammer power, target triggers under 2.5 pounds have problems with hard military primers. Some of the aftermarket triggers change up the pivots and spring leverage to make them different and can reduce trigger weight without affecting hammer power much.

There's also a difference in target and tactical, now, plus the awareness you can have a great trigger and it's still 4.5 pounds - or more. A light trigger isn't necessarily best in the field or on duty - military standards set it at 6-8 pounds for some good reasons.

The best bang for the buck isn't an expensive $250 trigger, you'll get your money's worth, but for the few dollars spent on a trigger adjustment screw, you get 80% of what they deliver anyway. It's the last few percent that are exponentially expensive.

madcratebuilder
February 8, 2012, 09:33 AM
Thanks for the link to Bill Springfield! That looks like a really good deal. Question though: I have read that polishing/grinding AR triggers is inadvisable because they are only surface hardened, is this true?
It depends on how much material is removed. In most cases surface hardening is .006-.010 deep, go past it and you have soft metal that well wear away fast. Trigger mechanics that know what they are doing well re-harden the surface after removing much material.

The ALG Defense Quality Mil-Spec (QMS) Trigger (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3023) looks like it well be a hot seller.

slayfire
February 8, 2012, 08:20 PM
The ALG Defense does look great for a tactical set up but that's a little much trigger pull weight for hunting/target(IMO anyway).

Mccarty
February 8, 2012, 09:16 PM
It would behard to believe that Geissle doesn't have something you would like in a single stage. Their super dynamic 3 gun trigger is amazing and the pull feels better than advertised. The two stage triggers are excellent for precision work. I have a timney 3 lb single stage as well which is nice, but it is now sitting in a spare parts bin and replaced with a Geissle. i have shot the Timney, jewell, RRA, and many others and in my opinion the Geissle is superior in feel and lock time.

wingman
February 9, 2012, 12:30 AM
I use the Geissele SSA-E which is a two stage for target shooting and it is a great trigger,easy to control, superior break IMO for fine shooting. I look forward to my range time now after the change.

DoubleTapDrew
February 9, 2012, 12:35 AM
The ALG Defense does look great for a tactical set up but that's a little much trigger pull weight for hunting/target(IMO anyway).
That trigger is aimed at people who don't want the crummy stock trigger but don't want to pay for a decent ($200) aftermarket trigger. I think it'll fill that niche nicely and plan to get one or two. Besides, when I emailed them, Amy Geissele herself responded. I like that kind of owner involvement.

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