LWRC vs. POF! Which has better fit and finish


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Galindolawyer
February 7, 2012, 08:14 PM
I'd like to know which brand has better fit and finish (this is important to me). Nothing local to see so I must order sight unseen. From the pics online, I like POF, but they have only a 3 year warranty whereas POF has lifetime. Is this an indication of quality or reason for concern? Appreciate the thoughts of those of you who have handled these two brands. Thanks!

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Tempest 455
February 7, 2012, 10:48 PM
I like to think of LWRC, not as the Cadillac but the Ferrari of AR's.

Sam Cade
February 8, 2012, 12:27 AM
You might want to steer clear of POF for a while.


http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/CivilCourtCases/caseSearchResults.asp?lastName=&FirstName=&bName=Patriot+Ordnance+Factory+Inc++

Z-Michigan
February 8, 2012, 12:37 AM
I've shot a POF-556 many times and a POF-308 once. I'm not super impressed with much of anything except the price.

No direct experience with LWRC. I'm barely acquainted with one person who loves his, and a number of people who basically laugh at them. Unsure what to make of it all.

What are you looking to accomplish? Chances are good that an ordinary DI AR from a quality manufacturer would be a better choice for you, even if you think you have difficult conditions or some special use.

Z-Michigan
February 8, 2012, 12:40 AM
FWIW, if you want an AR that's very pretty and shoots OK (best when you aren't hard on it) look at Rock River. If you want an AR that's very pretty and shoots great under all conditions, check out Noveske and Larue. Those two are quite expensive, but no worse and in fact probably less money than POF and LWRC rifles.

toejamm
February 8, 2012, 01:08 AM
1) I own an LWRC M6A2, 14.5", Tricolor, 5.56/.223 and is hands down my favorite rifle. The finish is fantastic. It is a snap to clean. Accurate. Nice single stage trigger. Nothing not to like. I recommend them Highly. I have handled their Cerakote and black rifles and they are equally impressive.
My only complaint is that the receivers have just a tiny bit of play after they are pinned together. An accuwedge fixed that.

2) POF I have never handled. Only have heard good things though. I don't know what Sam is refering to in reply #2, but after checking out the link I see no relevance to your topic, and nothing to be concerned with.

Good luck!

Sam Cade
February 8, 2012, 01:31 AM
I don't know what Sam is refering to in reply #2, but after checking out the link I see no relevance to your topic, and nothing to be concerned with.


...the company that actually MAKES the weapons is suing POF and is in full production of their own rifles.

http://www.hoganguns.com/aboutus/aboutus.html

Galindolawyer
February 8, 2012, 10:24 AM
Thanks for the good information. With respect to what I am trying to accomplish, I just want a cool looking rifle of high quality. Price is not so much an issue (but don’t tell my wife). I had a Colt 6721, sold it and got a Sig 556. I like the Sig much better. I have always been a pistol shooter, but am enjoying shooting rifles more and more. The FN Scar is good looking, but I shot one at the local range and it seemed to have a odd cycle/stroke – maybe it was dirty, but I had a problem once with a five-seven pistol and their customer service was poor, so FN is out. I have an HK SL8 that I purchased for the coolness factor, but have never shot it. I considered the MR556, but it seems as though it is overpriced for what you get. I like the Ferrari analogy. I can sit and stare at a Ferrari all day, because Ferrari’s are works of art. I want a rifle that has that same coolness factor, but can back up its looks with top performance. LWRC and POF seem that appeal, but LWRC with its lifetime warranty (POF has 3 years) and recommendations listed thus far by you folks, seems to be winning out.

JustinJ
February 8, 2012, 10:42 AM
I have an HK SL8 that I purchased for the coolness factor, but have never shot it.

If price isn't a concern do a G36 conversion or have someone do it for you.

RyeDaddy
February 8, 2012, 12:14 PM
First off the thing with lawsuits and POF are nothing to worry about. POF is not going anywhere, are still in production, and will continue to be. As will their warranty.

I own a POF P-308, and am happy as can be. Super accurate and fit and finish are first rate. Word of advice, buy a POF that is in stock. The wait times can be lengthy if ordered.

I've handled LWRC rifles, several of them. There isn't anything about them that is second to anybody else. They are also a top tier manufacturer. When I bought my rifle, the $600 more turned me off of LWRC, and I wanted a traditional charging handle for my 308 instead of the REPR's side charging system.

These two manufacturers are neck and neck, you can't go wrong, the POF is somewhat lighter. Both have more than enough cool factor, which do you like best?

Harold Mayo
February 8, 2012, 05:17 PM
All of the LWRC's that I've handled and shot have been really well-fitted and the finish has been incredible, especially for what you'd expect from an AR.

I WANT to like the POF rifles but the majority of the ones that I've messed with have had a poor fit between upper and lower and, while this might be a minor issue, it really bugs me in a gun in that price range.

Both have too many proprietary things going on with them so I stick mostly to regular DI guns as far as ARs go. The only piston gun that I own is the LMT MRP.

toejamm
February 8, 2012, 08:08 PM
Sam,
A quick Google search took me to this YouTube video.
What do you say?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag1lzZBFUp0

Sam Cade
February 8, 2012, 08:37 PM
What do you say?
Yep.

Hogan made pretty much every single part except barrels and furniture for POF for years prior to the proprietors falling out.


Address of Hogan Firearms per the ATF

5625 N 53RD AVE GLENDALE AZ

Address of POF

5619 N 53RD AVE GLENDALE AZ



They are even in the same building... ... :scrutiny:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=5619+N+53RD+AVE%09GLENDALE&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x872b6b30cc73e9eb:0x9a7cd97f0154f567,5619+N+53rd+Ave,+Glendale,+AZ+85301&gl=us&ei=pRQzT8iUBIazsAKw6MHoBg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CCQQ8gEwAA

moonroverer
February 14, 2012, 11:38 AM
Yes, according to the laws of the land :rolleyes:, whoever builds the housing for a fire control mechanism is a gun manufacturer. That said, Hogan is a machine shop. To my knowledge, they weren't responsible for any of the coatings, treatments, assembly, testing, QC, CS, or any of POF's other business processes. The rail system is an extrusion made off site. The upper, a forging made somewhere else. The lower, machined from a block of Alcoa aluminum. 99.9% of businesses contract subassemblies and parts manufacture. By law, yes, Hogan is a gun manufacturer. To say they MADE Patriot Ordnance Factory rifles is an extreme stretch. Hogan's early release of firearms is prime evidence of their ignorance in true weapons manufacturing (see toejamms vid link).

Sam Cade
February 14, 2012, 03:41 PM
Again, HOGAN Manufacturing controls all aspects of the design and manufacturing of the key components in house, these include upper and lower receivers, rails systems, bolts, bolt carriers, gas piston components and the drop in trigger assemblies as examples.



By law, yes, Hogan is a gun manufacturer. To say they MADE Patriot Ordnance Factory rifles is an extreme stretch.

Since you seem to be a person in the know, exactly what parts did POF actually manufacture for themselves before their boondoggle with Hogan?:scrutiny:

moonroverer
February 16, 2012, 10:55 AM
Perhaps one should read the definition of manufacture... :banghead:
POF didn't make one part, among other processes not affiliated with Hogan, they assembled the parts they contracted from Hogan into a whole. POF manufactured a finished product. Did Hogan mine bauxite or refine cast and extrude the aluminum? No, they relied on other manufacturers to supply them the goods needed to do their job.
Back on topic, as personal choice I'd take the POF/Hogan weapon. The gas system is more accessible and tunable for suppressed, unsuppressed, and even no cycle firing. IDK about how Hogans are shipping, but POFs have the bolt roller cam. I believe both run the oversized, heat dissipating, barrel nut. As for rail assemblies, the POF/Hogan rail is of larger diameter to accommodate said barrel nut, the LWRC's rail system is much slimmer, all a matter of personal preference really... POF offers the Nickel coating over the entire upper and lower, great for maintenance. If I were you, though, sight unseen, I'm not buying anything. No matter how many reviews I read, or suggestions online... Find one for hands on inspection...

Cesiumsponge
February 16, 2012, 01:08 PM
Yes, according to the laws of the land , whoever builds the housing for a fire control mechanism is a gun manufacturer. That said, Hogan is a machine shop. To my knowledge, they weren't responsible for any of the coatings, treatments, assembly, testing, QC, CS, or any of POF's other business processes. The rail system is an extrusion made off site. The upper, a forging made somewhere else. The lower, machined from a block of Alcoa aluminum. 99.9% of businesses contract subassemblies and parts manufacture. By law, yes, Hogan is a gun manufacturer. To say they MADE Patriot Ordnance Factory rifles is an extreme stretch. Hogan's early release of firearms is prime evidence of their ignorance in true weapons manufacturing

That is incorrect. A manufacturer that uses vendors for processing that can't be done in-house is still responsible for QC and QA when parts go out and come back in. Unless it is customer supplied material, they are responsible for ordering material. They are responsible to ensure heat treat, coatings, and all processes that are done in-house or outsourced to a vendor are done properly. The manufacturer pays all vendors for services, not the customer. They are responsible for dealing with vendors and communicating with vendors to ensure it is done properly or another vendor is selected. If a vendor screws up, the vendors are only liable up to a certain amount and the manufacturer has to eat costs and start over. They are responsible for final QC before POF, the customer, receives the finished product that they paid for.

That's not opinion. That's how the manufacturing industry works. A majority of companies don't actually make their own parts. A majority of manufacturers don't do everything under one roof.

moonroverer
February 17, 2012, 12:34 PM
Cesiumsponge, by what you wrote I'm assuming you are under the belief that Hogan made a 100% complete assembled gun with POF markings. Is that assumption correct?

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