[Hondo 60]

Today I had an opportunity to go gun shopping. :D

I held a Ruger LC9 & Kel-tec PF9.

I found the Ruger trigger to be llooonngggg.
The Kel-tec trigger seemed to be MUCH nicer.
Of course (& unfortunately) I wasn't able to fire either of them.

I live in a small town, so there's no place to go to rent any.
And I don't know of anyone who has either of them.

Money is a bit of an issue, so I'm very strongly leaning toward the Kel-tec.
and as I said above, the PF9's trigger seemed much better too.

Is there anyone who has or had both?
What were the pluses & minuses of each?

Thanks folks!

[MachIVshooter]

Have not shot the LC9, but handled them plenty. I own a PF-9

The PF-9 is lighter and slightly thinner. Mine is plenty accurate and reliable, though not extremely pleasant at the range. 12 ounce 9mm guns have noteworthy recoil.

If I were shopping today, I'd still go PF-9, even if price were the same. I wanted the lightest 9mm.

[Sauer Grapes]

It just so happens, I shot a couple mags out of a LC9 today. {not mine}I was surprised how well it managed recoil. Trigger wasn't an issue for me. It's like shooting a DA revolver.
5 shot 2'' group @ 7yds, works for me. I'm not a fan of "mouse guns", but it shot pretty well.
I'm not a KelTec fan at all. That said, I really don't have much experience with them either. I'm sure they fill someones needs.

[Psa1m144]

The trigger on the LC9 can be shortened easily with a drop-in part from Galloway Precision http://www.gallowayprecision.com/lc9performanceparts.html

I did it with my wife's LC9.

I don't have any experience with the PF9 so I can't do a comparison but I can attest to the overall quality of the LC9, it is a fantastic pistol.

[crracer_712]

Love my LC9. Plan to do the Galloway mod once he's up and running with a company that will build the trggier bar to his specs as opposed to ordering bars from Ruger and modifying them.

A friend of mine really liked the LC9, but he's a little on the cheap side at times. He went with the black parkerized version of the PF-9. He lives in the city and seldom shoots. Bout two weeks after he bought the kel-tec, he went to the range, was fairly satisfied with his new purchase. Visited the gun store while there and found a LC9 with 3 mags on consignment for 259.00, like new. After he called me to tell me about it, he bought it on the spot. He hasn't shot it yet, has interest in the Galloway mod, but he does like it's feel in the hand better than the PF-9. He hates all the safety items on it.

I shoot my LC9 with long trigger pull extremely well, but something I tend not to do is switch between it and say my SR9C, and expect immediate results (triggers are polar opposites).

If money is a bit of an issue, perhaps that makes your decision easier. The only thing I've ever heard about the PF-9 is the occasional issue with accidentally releasing the magazine due to the location of the mag release.

[MachIVshooter]

The only thing I've ever heard about the PF-9 is the occasional issue with accidentally releasing the magazine due to the location of the mag release.

:scrutiny:

It's in the same place as almost every other auto out there.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/kel-tec_PF9.jpg

[holdencm9]

I think the issue with the safety is it isn't recessed, so it is easier to hit. I Don't think they can recess it because it would add thickness. I guess it depends on your hands and grip.

[MachIVshooter]

I think the issue with the safety is it isn't recessed, so it is easier to hit. I Don't think they can recess it because it would add thickness. I guess it depends on your hands and grip.

I assume you meant mag release, not safety.

Anyway, I don't know of any handguns with a recessed mag release button. Would make it kinda difficult to manipulate.

Believe me, there's no "accidentally" dropping the mag on a PF-9. The retention is quite postive. I just checked mine, it requires 5.2 lbs of pressure to release a loaded mag, which is about the same as the trigger pull.

[Geneseo1911]

Hey Hondo...I though you liked wood & steel! :neener:

I haven't handled a LC9, which was probably a huge mistake on my part. I bought a PF9 partly on impulse, and partly knowing that I didn't want all the extra safeties on the Ruger (mag, loaded chamber ind., manual thumb safety). Also, I hear that the KT has a much better trigger. Anyway, you might check out my other thread here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=629926) about my PF9 saga. Short version: I had to send it back twice before they got it working. I've "owned" it for almost 3 months, and it has been in my possession about 2 weeks, but it does work now.

Also, Hickok45, of YouTube fame, does this exact comparison: Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiXbGwnVhVY&feature=BFa&list=PL5BAC3C9A38AD20D9&lf=plpp_video)

If I had it to do again, I'd buy the Kahr PM9. It's a fair bit more money than the Ruger, but it's the cheapest micro-9mm that I've never heard anything bad about. That said, if you are willing the chance having to screw around with KT customer service for a couple months, the PF9 is cheap and can be made to run well.

ETA: Congrats on getting carry passed up there. Remember your comrades down here below the Cheddar Curtain!

[MICHAEL T]

my PF-9 has been trouble free over 500 rounds . Idon't like +P in it and I keep to 115gr bullets . It has become one of my often carry pistols . My 1911 compacts aren't real happy with it I keep them septerated Just in case .

[SEE IT LIKE A NATIVE]

I love the LC9 and own a few Rugers , but being a lefty it kinda torqued me off that Ruger put a right handed safety on it ! I would prefer no safety at all and a double action trigger pull ! I would not hesitate to own the pf-9 Keltec as it fits my needs better ! Kevin

[RinkRat]

Price = PF9

Which trigger felt better FOR YOU = PF9

You said the trigger felt better so I'm guessing it fit your hand nicely too = PF9

The PF9 has a very good reputation and Kel-Tec's CS is second to none, so since you said you like the PF9 get it! I'm guessing you'll be happy you did and any issues you may have with it, Kel-Tec will fix it for you 99.9% of the time for free, for as long as you own it.

[justice06rr]

It's in the same place as almost every other auto out there.


its in the same place but its poorly designed.

I've shot many other pistols along with the PF9. The PF9 was the only pistol that had the accidental mag-release issue because of the placement of the mag release.

Yes, I've owned the PF9. Not hating on it, but the mag-releasing issue happend to me, along with jamming and failure to feed issues. I've shot a friend's LC9 and it was trouble free.

I've owned Taurus 709/740Slim and even those are trouble free. Keltec is cheaper for a reason.

[mgmorden]

From my understanding gleaned from the Ye Old Interwebs - a lot of the cases of the mag prematurely releasing were due to their original use of a plastic mag release. Over time it would become worn would release the mag during fire.

Newer production models include a redesigned metal magazine release that is supposed to alleviate the issue, and on the older ones it's a cheap part that only takes a few minutes to replace.

I don't personally own one, but this is something I've researched as a potential buyer myself.

[Geneseo1911]

A couple more things I thought about last night after posting....

The failure to eject that I (and many others) experienced is hard to clear. A tap-rack-roll isn't going to clear it. The round comes halfway out before the extractor releases it, and then the slide jams the next round up into it. You have to lock the slide back, push the top round back into the mag, drop the mag, and then cycle the slide to remove the fired shell. It takes about a minute of undivided attention to get the gun running again. If that happened during a firefight, you'd be dead. Again, they got mine fixed, but I won't be confident in it for a few hundred more rounds yet.

Also, check out the PF9 section at ktog.org. That same type of FTE has been a big problem with these guns for a long time.

Again, I won't tell you not to buy one; it is a pretty sweet shooter for such a tiny gun, but be aware that there's some risk involved.

[hardluk1]

I carried a pf-9 for 2 1/2 years. No problems with it. For range trips with a new pistol at least while proofing it put a couple layers of inner tube around the grip and aid with control of that light pistol. I fired around 2000 rounds thru mine. Sold it after buying a used kahr cw9 and then a new cm9. Cost more but way easier to shot and control. I don't want a safety on a small pocket pistol so that keeps me from the ruger right off.

[holdencm9]

I assume you meant mag release, not safety.

Woops. Haha. Yeah silly me. Too late at night for me to post, I guess!

Anyway, I don't know of any handguns with a recessed mag release button. Would make it kinda difficult to manipulate.

Not at all. It's not so much that the mag button is recessed, but there is some molding contoured around it, so it can still be pushed with your finger, but won't be pushed from riding in a holster or accidentally hitting it.

Believe me, there's no "accidentally" dropping the mag on a PF-9. The retention is quite postive. I just checked mine, it requires 5.2 lbs of pressure to release a loaded mag, which is about the same as the trigger pull.

I think it happens during firing. It seems/seemed to be a common problem, I have seen a lot of video reviewers note that it has happened (nutnfancy and/or hickock45, I believe). So maybe you got one with a more robust spring, the new upgraded metal spring mgmorden mentions, or something is off with their grips that they aren't managing recoil well enough, I don't know. Just reporting what I've heard.

[momano]

I had a Kel-tec P11 and sold it because the recoil aggravated my arthritis. I would be hesitant to buy the lighter PF9. I've rented the LC9 and was very impressed with the mild mannered recoil. The trigger pull is long on the LC9; but I was getting the same accuracy from the rented Ruger as the Glock 26 I was renting. I would go with the LC9 if it were me. Good luck!

[dastardly-D]

I have a pf-9 that conceals very well,no issues with the mag release,very light,and inexpensive.After quite a few hundred rounds it started to hic cup on reminton gold dots.I sent it back to the company and it now works fine again.I also own a p-11,very difficult trigger pull,also pretty accurate.Go to the Kahr forum to learn about Kahrs.They seem to have a spotty QC proplem,including the CW 45 I bought.None of the very light ,super compact pistols will shoot as good as a compact pistol,but you will find yourself carrying the super compacts because they are comfortable,and comforting to have with you.As for the little Ruger,who can honestly say any Ruger is not a solid ,good deal,hand gun ? Just don't expect a lot of accuracy out of the little super compacts,they are easier to shoot than any 2'' snubbie though....

[mtnkid85]

Youll notice many of the complaints on these sized guns lie in how they fit a individuals hands. Next time you go look at them, pick it up and really study how your grip holds the gun, if your fingers are directly over the mag release then you may have issues with accidently pushing it while firing. Where your strong hands thumb lies, does it naturally settle on the slide stop? If so the gun my not lock open on the last round. I would hardly call that gun issue but simply a fitment issue.

Also alot of problems reported with little guns are from people who are not knowingly limp wristing the gun. ALL these little autos are quite sensitve to limp wristing and really need a fairly tight grasp to let them work like theyre supposed to.

Just something to keep in mind.

[dsb1829]

I have owned both, but kept neither. I can't say the type is useful for anything other than BUG or deep conceal. They are easier to carry, but require more care/focus to draw an shoot accurately. Of the two if I were to buy again the KT would be the one. Better trigger and no lawyer safeties. Ruger is higher quality in fit/finish, but that don't mean beans if the trigger is so long that my shots get pulled easily.

[Cornhusker77]

A couple more things I thought about last night after posting....

The failure to eject that I (and many others) experienced is hard to clear. A tap-rack-roll isn't going to clear it. The round comes halfway out before the extractor releases it, and then the slide jams the next round up into it. You have to lock the slide back, push the top round back into the mag, drop the mag, and then cycle the slide to remove the fired shell. It takes about a minute of undivided attention to get the gun running again. If that happened during a firefight, you'd be dead. Again, they got mine fixed, but I won't be confident in it for a few hundred more rounds yet.

Also, check out the PF9 section at ktog.org. That same type of FTE has been a big problem with these guns for a long time.

Again, I won't tell you not to buy one; it is a pretty sweet shooter for such a tiny gun, but be aware that there's some risk involved.
Mine was doing the same thing, but I found if I really tightened the extractor screw the problem went away.
A little loctite should fix that though.
Yours may have had a different issue, but mine's fine now

[sigbear]

I bought a PF9 earlier this year and after a month traded for a LC9. My kel-tec was not reliable so I traded it in. Accuracy was about equal for me, but, no jams at all with my LC9.

I don't particularly care for the long trigger pull of the LC9 but it goes bang every time. Kel-tec PF9's are hit or miss (IMO).

I would gladly pay a few bucks more for the LC9 and have peace of mind.

The quality is evident when you hold both side by side.

Good luck,

Sigbear

[INMY01TA]

I looked at both and went with the PF9.

[MedWheeler]

I acquired my PF9 before the Ruger came out, so I never really looked at the latter. I have been carrying my Kel-Tec for just under two years, and have had no negative issues. I've put probably three hundred rounds through it (admittedly, not a lot, but I'm not the original owner, so it's likely had many more.) I like the lack of a manual safety, too, but have no issues carrying a gun that has one; I just leave it off. My prior carry piece was a Bersa Thunder in .380, and I would just leave the safety off on it.
You will not go wrong with either gun. It just comes down to what you want, and what you want it for.

[jimbo555]

I prefer the safeties so I went with the Ruger.Going on 400rounds mine has been perfect and is my primary carry.

[Hondo 60]

Hey Hondo...I though you liked wood & steel! :neener:

I DID say that, didn't I...

But even us traditionalists gotta have a bit of plastic now & then. :rolleyes:

Geneseo1911 - I continue to pray for you!
But I can't see the machine in the big city giving in on concealed carry.
Maybe someday you'll get ticked off enough to move north - :D


Thanks all for the responses.
Next payday I'll be goin to the LGS.
I think I pretty much made up my mind on the Kel-tec.
I REALLY like the way it fits my hand, I like the trigger &
I reload, so I can pretty much tame the recoil.

I'll post a report after I get it.

[J_McLeod]

I've only handled the LC9 at a gun shop.

I bought the PF9 a few years ago because of it's caliber and small size. It gets carried more than my other 7 pistols combined. There are some small 9s that I like to shoot better, but the PF9 always wins in size. It also fits my hand very well with the magazine lip on it.

I also handload, and here's my experience with it.

115gr MG FMJ, 4.9gr 231 - Very nice shooting load and doesn't hurt my finger at all. brass goes 2-3 ft.
147gr MBC TC, 4.8gr HS-6 - Even lighter shooting, brass lands near my feet.
Factory S&B - stings my finger a bit with each round. Most snappy of these loads.
115gr MG FMJ, 6.8gr HS-6 - throws brass almost 10ft. Fun to shoot, but stout push type recoil for a 9mm
95gr TMJ, 7.5gr HS-6 - About the same.

I havent' tested any for accuracy because I'm really only concerned with hitting an 8x10 paper at 10yds, because that's what the PF9 is for.

[Hondo 60]

My standard load is a 124 gr Berry's (plated) or Missouri Bullet Co (lead)
with 4.1 gr of Titegroup
That gets me about 900 fps, yet it's not as snappy as any factory ammo I've shot.

[marv]

I have the PF9 and like it. No probs. I put the aluminum trigger in it and that made it a whole nuther different gun. Trigger feel is better yet. I own several Rugers but not an LC9. If I did I would carry it with the safety off. After all it being DAO it is like a double action revolver in that respect and the looong trigger pull IS the safety.

[hso]

Can't speak to the qualities of the Ruger, but my PF9 has been a fine companion out and about and on the range.

I heard the tales of magazines "accidentally" falling out and I just don't see that happening. I guess anything can happen, but mine's been positive holding the mag in place.

[dirtengineer]

I was going to purchase an LC9, but opted not to because of the extra "safety" features that I did not desire. I ended up going with a Kahr CM9. I have owned two kel-tecs in the past and were happy with them for the most part. Biggest beef was that they are pretty unrefined.

[crracer_712]

Did a little long distance shooting yesterday, 330 yrds at a steel Elk target. After using a few rifles I decided to try the 4 pistols I had with me; a P91DC, SR9C, LC9 and a LCP.

As you can imagine from that distance, each gun required finding the proper place to hold to hit the target. Initially to my surprise, I actually hit the target a couple time in 20 rnds with the P91DC. Switched to the SR9C and after adjust the aim height, was a tad more accurate with it. Then switched to the LC9 and to my amazement, found it to be the EASIEST of all to shoot the target with over a 50% hit rate. I did shoot the LCP, only had the ammo in the loaded mag and manage to hit the target on the last shot.

[chicharrones]

I was going to purchase an LC9, but opted not to because of the extra "safety" features that I did not desire. I ended up going with a Kahr CM9.

You know, that is the only turn off for me on the LC9. The extra stuff that the Kel-Tec, Kahr, and even the Beretta Nano don't have.

I have had the fun of firing the PF-9 and the LC9. Both worked and launched bullets where I was aiming. Recoil was stout (w/ std. 9mm) but didn't feel as hard as an alloy frame .38 Special with +P.

What I didn't like about the LC9 while firing it was the LaserMax laser activation button. It is out of reach for my trigger finger.

[Hondo 60]

These are all excellent posts.
Exactly the stuff I was hoping for.

By posting this I'm letting everyone know that I was here & saw all the replies.
(I hate when someone posts & then you never know if they saw the replies) :fire:


Thanks a bunch.

[Geneseo1911]

Let us know how your KT works for you. Be careful, that plastic can be habit forming...