Farewell ol' Boxy!


PDA






TITAN308
February 8, 2012, 12:48 PM
Our 308 prototype is off to the machine shop for the first round of revisions.

Why did people hate on you so much Boxy? You did no one no harm!

New Additions:

Fully Integrated JP Enterprise (large profit) muzzle brake with matching "port-out" plates on the shroud.
Reconfiguration of the picatinny rails so we can move to a CAA side mount bipod setup.
Less Box More Octagon'ish
Very slight cut down in the dimensions (about 1/2" over all, not much)

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4883/dscf4022r.jpg

If you enjoyed reading about "Farewell ol' Boxy!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
RevolvingGarbage
February 8, 2012, 04:06 PM
You forgot to hire a tiny Japanese girl in skimpy clothes to hold that for the picture!

xfyrfiter
February 8, 2012, 04:15 PM
What it is?????????

TITAN308
February 8, 2012, 04:16 PM
What it is?????????

44" in length and 30lbs 5oz in weight.

Bua ha ha ha....




















(but seriously, yea its heavy)

LoonWulf
February 8, 2012, 04:29 PM
Garbage is right...you need a school girl outfit.....
...i may have missed it but whats it do?

memphisjim
February 8, 2012, 04:31 PM
Movies will want one!

TITAN308
February 8, 2012, 04:49 PM
A little bench rest application we've been working on. I posted about it a while ago.

Although I always assumed it was pretty obvious, its a specific design for a specific application. Some people can't seem to wrap their head around the fact this is not a battlefield weapon nor do you use it like your 6lb carbine with a 16" barrel.


http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6326/dscf3873g.jpg

NeuseRvrRat
February 8, 2012, 05:10 PM
it appears that its primary purpose is to make forum members ask "what is it?" so the owner can make snide comments back to them

TITAN308
February 8, 2012, 05:13 PM
Not sure why you think anything I said is snide. But then again baseless attacks and knee-jerk reactions are pretty normal for the internet right?

Good grief, lighten up. Can you clarify what made you think I was being snide?

edit: Is teasing people about a yet to be finished item now taboo or something? Building anticipation or pulling peoples curiousity strings now off limits? Man I'm stumped. Help a guy out.

Ian
February 8, 2012, 08:19 PM
Does the shroud do anything other than mount the bipod? I guess I don't quite get it... :confused:

Dmitri Popov
February 8, 2012, 08:36 PM
Be neat if you could add an integral laser range finder to it. But then again where this would be used the range would probably be known.
Anyway, it needs something, some pizazz, ya know.

TITAN308
February 8, 2012, 08:40 PM
Ian it houses a custom modular weights and recoil system. Though we are toying with some water cooling ideas as well.

Dmitri - thats what revisions are for. :)

Dmitri Popov
February 8, 2012, 08:43 PM
Perhaps instead of Water cooled, a system of heat sinks and PC fans could be used.
Would probably reduce weight, and overall complexity.

dprice3844444
February 8, 2012, 08:45 PM
shoulda wore a white shirt in the first pic,

JRH6856
February 8, 2012, 08:51 PM
Anyway, it needs something, some pizazz, ya know.

Rent out ad space on the sides? Could help pay for ammo and range fees.

thomis
February 8, 2012, 09:00 PM
How does it shoot?
What do you use it for, mainly?
How long is the bbl?
Magazine capacity?
What does it like to eat?
Can you feed it after midnight?

TITAN308
February 8, 2012, 09:01 PM
Would probably reduce weight, and overall complexity.

That is counter-productive to its application. Its suppose to weigh more. A lot more than usual. Its slowly approaching the weight of a Barret M107.

Rent out ad space on the sides? Could help pay for ammo and range fees.

That seemed to be the running joke when ARFCOM ripped me a new butt hole. That place is brutal. Photoshops of ol' boxy with ads on the side and all. haha

I think one guy even put a cardboard box filled with weights (the kind you lift for exercise) ontop of his rifle and said he was going to compete in the market with me.

Poor Boxy :(

Sheepdog1968
February 8, 2012, 09:04 PM
Awesome. I love it when I see someone come up with an idea and then use his hands and skills to make it take form.

TITAN308
February 8, 2012, 09:04 PM
How does it shoot?
What do you use it for, mainly?
How long is the bbl?
Magazine capacity?
What does it like to eat?
Can you feed it after midnight?

Lots of reduced felt recoil - I imagine once the muzzle brake is installed it will be approaching the goal of .22 recoil

Its a bench rest application. With that kind of weight you can guess its not a CQC or battlefield rifle.

Standard 20+1 capacity (until someone will get off their butt and manufacturer a double drum 7.62 - currently there is only a single drum and that won't work from a bench because it hangs down in the middle)

It likes to eat American and Russian (we've fed it lots of Russian for fun).

TITAN308
February 8, 2012, 09:08 PM
The scope on ol' boxy is 10-40x50 is that the correct way to say it?

Positivity
February 8, 2012, 09:09 PM
Have you considered putting slots on the side for a magazine or individual bullets of different calibers? That way, it could function not only as a recoil reduction and cooling system, but also as an ammo carrier.

MachIVshooter
February 8, 2012, 09:13 PM
Rent out ad space on the sides?

That's good. lol

TITAN308
February 8, 2012, 09:14 PM
Have you considered putting slots on the side for a magazine or individual bullets of different calibers?

We have numerous ideas we are toying with, what you mention is one of them.

Believe me its got a bit to go before I would venture to say its out of 'prototype' status.

This revision we are also added slits that run up and down the side panels where a user can position picatinny rails in any configuration they want.

Our only dislike for giving it mag carrier capability is what would be the purpose? With its intended application usually your "range cart" is nearby anyway.

MachIVshooter
February 8, 2012, 09:17 PM
This revision we are also added slits that run up and down the side panels where a user can position picatinny rails in any configuration they want.

Now that I don't get. I understand making a heavy BR gun, but making one that'll accept gobs of accessories that are completely useless for BR shooting?

Dmitri Popov
February 8, 2012, 09:20 PM
Couldn't water also mess with the balance? Sloshing water may interfere by rocking the gun, being detrimental the extreme accuracy this thing would be designed for. Not trying to nit pick, just offering ideas because I want you to be as successful as posssible.

TITAN308
February 8, 2012, 09:21 PM
Now that I don't get. I understand making a heavy BR gun, but making one that'll accept gobs of accessories that are completely useless for BR shooting?

Why do you say gobs?

Why can't a user (for example) use one 11-slot rail on each side for a side mount bipod?

Having the slits run the entire length allows them to virtually test and put rails wherever they want. (Every user likes the bipod in a slightly different spot - some like them as far forward as possible, others in the middle, others somewhere in between.)

If someone wants to load it up with tactical toys what do I care? :)

Couldn't water also mess with the balance? Sloshing water may interfere by rocking the gun, being detrimental the extreme accuracy this thing would be designed for. Not trying to nit pick, just offering ideas because I want you to be as successful as posssible.

Depends on how the water cooling system is applied. If you have a system that cycles water around the barrels and allow no air gaps (I guess you could say pressurized water?) in the system it would run just fine I imagine.

Positivity
February 8, 2012, 09:23 PM
The purpose really would just be so that you could keep your rifle on target while you change magazines instead of looking over at your cart and grabbing a clip from that, possibly causing you to lose your target in the process and taking more time.

TITAN308
February 8, 2012, 09:30 PM
Well I think in the end the system will allow for the user to configure whatever they want.

I mean there is already a huge market for ammo/mag attachments as is, all that is needed is an available picatinny rail. We are trying to avoid spending any R&D money on something that is already over saturated in the market and focus on truly new and innovative ideas.

I mean we might be interested in making some sort of apparatus that uses the barrel to heat food - we could call it the MMBS aka "Mobile Microwave Battle System"! :P

NeuseRvrRat
February 8, 2012, 09:30 PM
Couldn't water also mess with the balance? Sloshing water may interfere by rocking the gun, being detrimental the extreme accuracy this thing would be designed for. Not trying to nit pick, just offering ideas because I want you to be as successful as posssible.

Joel Pendergraft's 1000 yds heavy benchrest record holding rifle is watercooled.

TITAN308
February 8, 2012, 10:02 PM
Joel Pendergraft's 1000 yds heavy benchrest record holding rifle is watercooled.

Nice - I never heard of this, thats a totally sweet railgun he has there.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/04/joel-pendergraft-sets-new-ibs-1000-yard-heavy-gun-world-record/

http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/joelgun02.jpg

http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/joelgun01.jpg

MachIVshooter
February 8, 2012, 10:02 PM
Couldn't water also mess with the balance? Sloshing water may interfere by rocking the gun, being detrimental the extreme accuracy this thing would be designed for

That's an easy one to get around; Baffles. That's how the problem is addressed with tractor trailer tanks (except dairy haulers; no fun in a hard stop!)

Schofield3
February 8, 2012, 10:28 PM
looks pretty cool!

LoonWulf
February 9, 2012, 01:04 AM
ok, now that i know what id does, i think its neat :D.....i still think it needs a school girls outfit tho...

Sam1911
February 9, 2012, 11:24 AM
Is teasing people about a yet to be finished item now taboo or something? Building anticipation or pulling peoples curiousity strings now off limits? Man I'm stumped. Help a guy out. Anything which improves the "signal-to-noise" ratio here is welcome. Anything that dosn't, isn't. More signal, less noise. Just as a general rule.

Proceed.

Driftertank
February 9, 2012, 11:41 AM
RE the pictures above, at what point does a device cease to be a rifle, and become simply a mobile test barrel mount? I feel that the record holder is beyond that point.

The OP's, however, is still recognisable as a rifle...mostly. So, props to him.

TITAN308
February 9, 2012, 11:45 AM
Anything which improves the "signal-to-noise" ratio here is welcome. Anything that dosn't, isn't. More signal, less noise. Just as a general rule.

Proceed.

Forgive my dumbness - but you are basically saying that spammy/useless stuff is a no-no. Was anything I posted fall under that?

The Joker comes to mind with some people, "Why so serious?"

There is a reason major companies don't offer more frequent updates (or none at all) from a new products birth to its completion - everyone now a days is "now now now" and "gimmie gimmie gimmie". lol

TITAN308
February 9, 2012, 12:12 PM
RE the pictures above, at what point does a device cease to be a rifle, and become simply a mobile test barrel mount? I feel that the record holder is beyond that point.

The OP's, however, is still recognisable as a rifle...mostly. So, props to him.

The point of a rail gun is to master the equipment and the cartridge loads and remove the human error of the shooter from the equation.

Imagine you are wanting to test your new reloads, but you yourself are a horrible shooter. So you have some choices. A sled, sandbag, or some other contraptions - or have a personal professional world champion shooter at your disposal. The latter is probably not going to happen.

A rail gun is like having the perfect shooter at your disposal. A rail gun does not make human error and can only make error based on its construction or its ammunition.

Its a long going dispute about if rail guns require any skill. I think the people who oppose them do not get the basic concept, its a challenge in your construction and reloading ability - it has nothing to do with the shooter.

As for ours, its somewhat of a hybrid rail gun. We wanted something with similar results, but still mobile and we absolutely wanted something cool looking people can identify with.

.45Guy
February 9, 2012, 06:33 PM
No doubt this is a superbly accurate AR platform rifle, but by choosing a magazine fed autoloading action you have introduced mechanical error into the equation. It seems as most rail, and F class for that matter, are based on single shot actions to allow for the highest degree of repeatability shot to shot.

TITAN308
February 9, 2012, 06:59 PM
Well that is sort of the point - to not be like everyone else and see how far we can take an auto loader.

We have however not written off an upper receiver that is setup with a side charging bolt and and plugging the gas block.

Time will tell.

Rancho Relaxo
February 9, 2012, 08:24 PM
It's fun to see new things like this. I never would have thought this up.

TITAN308
February 9, 2012, 08:43 PM
It's fun to see new things like this. I never would have thought this up.

One of two things will happen:

1. Since no one has pursued this type of mechanism, it makes me obnoxiously rich.

2. It flops flat on face. There was a reason there was no market.

I think, "Meh - worst case situation I end up with a 'one-off' custom firearm that no one else has or can purchase." Then I wait 30 years and sell it. lol!!!

But yea - look at the "zombie" market right now. I slap some zombie stickers on it and take some cool photos with a zombie theme and I can retire early!

jerkface11
February 9, 2012, 08:56 PM
Here's what you do. Make a few uppers and sell them to prop houses cheap. They get put into some SCIFI movie and BOOM you have a market.

TITAN308
February 14, 2012, 10:10 PM
A few more I dug up when we were toying with rail configs and side mounts.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3359/dscf4075n.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8669/dscf4082b.jpg

fireman 9731
February 14, 2012, 10:46 PM
I think its a neat idea.

Forget about what all of the nay-sayers have said. I got a fortune cookie the other day that said: "A closed mind is like a closed book, Its just a block of wood." I'm pretty sure it applies here.

While you are at it though, I would think about adding a brass catcher of some kind.

TITAN308
February 15, 2012, 10:18 AM
Thanks for the comment - its nice to get positive feedback when the internet allows for everyone with a keyboard to act like a donkeys rear end.

Feedback doesn't have to be positive, but people tend to be more trollish when trying to convey why they don't like something.

While you are at it though, I would think about adding a brass catcher of some kind.

We just recently were talking about a cool idea along these lines. Some sort of duct-work that attaches over the ejection port and directs the rounds to simply drop down straight.

Yea we could just put a $5.00 nylon net on - but what fund would that be?

We also toyed around with the idea of the duct work going into an ammo box of some sort to catch at all the brass.

Since this is a bench rest only application, we have all kinds of ideas we can mess around with since mobility is not constraining us.

Chris-bob
February 16, 2012, 04:09 AM
If this is for BR shooting, what about adding a rear bipod so all you have to do is snug up and pull the trigger...like a built-in lead sled.

helotaxi
February 16, 2012, 06:25 AM
The PRS can easily be fitted with a mono-pod. The bottom cap slides of to reveal a Pic. rail.

cthulhufan
February 16, 2012, 06:47 AM
Man she's ugly! I bet it's a fun rifle to shoot though and bench guns rarely look sexy anyway IMO. Looks like you are having fun doing what you love, more power to you!

TITAN308
February 16, 2012, 08:21 AM
If this is for BR shooting, what about adding a rear bipod so all you have to do is snug up and pull the trigger...like a built-in lead sled.

Its funny you mention that. One of the things we were messing with. It actually does not get in the way of shooting like some might think.

(The reason its on on the PRS rail is to much elevation)

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1576/dscf4084r.jpg

Chris-bob
February 17, 2012, 01:08 AM
Very functional.

chute2thrill
April 10, 2012, 10:45 PM
Personally I think its cool! And it doesn't look like some oddball machine like the other picture. I kinda of think it looks like the guns from Starship Troopers. I want to know whats inside that box tho! ;)

wheelgun6T9
April 11, 2012, 07:38 AM
I like your attitude and drive TITAN - the rifle isn't much my cup of tea but I wish you luck. Keep plugging away at it.

This is how innovation works. Someone with an idea that is prototyped and refined over time.

Buford57
April 11, 2012, 08:48 PM
Never mind the cooling. Mount a pizza oven under the box. Put the heat to good use, add more weight and you won't have to ask "what's for dinner?"

Chedderbob
April 11, 2012, 11:48 PM
Ok, after reading a number of your posts you have mentioned marketing about 900 times. Strictly curious; did you actually do any marketing research before sinking the money into R&D. Like a feasibility analysis perhaps? If so, what kind of money/market are we looking at here?

Again, it seems like you have tailor-made a product for a market that is inherently custom. When at a BR shoot most guys are running ultra-custom (as in out of their own machine shop) rigs. I'm curious to know why you feel that a target market that prides themselves on originality is going to suddenly conform to a standard.

I'm not poking, just have a "jones" for marketing discussions :evil:

On a side note the thing looks awesome, and when brought to market I would definitely consider one as a plinker. :)

If you enjoyed reading about "Farewell ol' Boxy!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!