M1917 Enfield Based Guide Rifles?


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CmdrSlander
February 8, 2012, 09:42 PM
Some of you may remember my thread about M1917 based hunting rifles that my friend who is also a gunsmith was considering producing, his financial situation has changed and that has been put on the back burner for now. However, we still often discuss it and we have some new product ideas that I would like to run by you gentlemen.

M1917 Based Guide Rifles

Most folks who frequents gun forums knows what guide gun is, a big bore, short-barreled manual action rifle for defense against dangerous game in places like Alaska. Our take on the guide gun is our M1917 Based Guide's Rifle.

Features:
-Stainless Steel Cold Hammer Forged Barrel and forged action for extreme durability. Brushed for a low profile (does not shine or glint).
-Blued ghost ring sights with three dot tritium inserts.
-Scout mount for optics.
-Modified Bell and Carlson synthetic stock with gray and black Spiderweb™ pattern. Pachmayr recoil pad.
-16" Barrel with integrated advanced compensator which directs muzzle blast safely away from the shooter, reduces flash, and felt recoil.
-Polymer Detachable Box Magazine! Up to 10 round capacity.
-Legendary Enfield Cock-on-Closing mechanism w/ massive Mauser claw extractor that enables very positive case extraction and a higher RoF than other bolt action systems. The bolt action fighting rifle mechanism taken to its logical, ultimate, conclusion.
-Oversized, rubberized, bolt handle for high stress operation.
-Hand built in Texas, USA. Test fired for reliability and accuracy, approved by a master gunsmith.
-Calibers: .45-70 Gov't, .350 Remington, .450 Marlin (all of which can be loaded with spire point bullet to take advantage of the box mags) Any caliber within reason can be requested.
-Trigger pull: 6 to 2.5 pounds.
-Weight: 7 pounds.
-Includes 4 magazines, locking hard case with a full metal exterior.

Price: $1,760 as configured.

What do you think of this rifle? Especially interested in hearing from people who actually need to carry a Guide Rifle.

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CmdrSlander
February 8, 2012, 10:15 PM
Anyone?

madcratebuilder
February 9, 2012, 08:23 AM
Sounds like a nice rifle but it is going to have a very small market.

Most folks who frequents gun forums knows what guide gun is, a big bore, short-barreled manual action rifle for defense against dangerous game in places like Alaska.

A lot of folks are going with a pump 12ga with 18" or 20" barrel for this.

56hawk
February 9, 2012, 10:29 AM
I'd buy one if it was in a bigger caliber. Something between 505 Gibbs and 577 T-Rex. Otherwise it sounds like it will be a really cool rifle.

ldhulk
February 9, 2012, 11:14 AM
Two problems: A bolt gun is a little slower on repeat shots...not that much, but in a sudden attack situation, it could be important. The price. Not saying it's out of line, but the people who co-exist with big bears don't earn their money as easy as hedge fund managers and $1760 might be more than they would pay when cheaper alternatives are available. You can get a 12 gauge 3-inch magnum loaded with Dixie slugs for a lot less money. Just one guy's opinion.

CraigC
February 9, 2012, 11:33 AM
Sounds cool to me! Although a walnut stock, a little more barrel and a .375 or .416Ruger chambering would be more interesting.

Lord have mercy, do folks really believe that the 12ga pump is gonna replace the dangerous game rifle???

CmdrSlander
February 9, 2012, 02:12 PM
Price can't really be brought down, quality costs money and once you add the fact the each one is hand built of the finest materials and in the US it starts to add up. I'm not trying to be an jerk but custom shop prices are what they are. Wild West guns "Alaskan Copilot" (.45-70 Lever action) model is $1980. Neither are readily affordable but both are top quality guns and ours is actually cheaper. :)

I will give you the RoF point for levers and pumps but it has several key advantages over those:

-Detachable box magazine: a shotgun or lever with a 16" barrel will not be able to hold as many cartridges and cannot be reloaded as quickly.
-The action is simpler than a lever action's and less likely to jam. If any problems are encountered disassembly is simple.
-Utilize pointed bullets! (I know Hornady has the new LeverEvolution line but that isn't exactly sweeping the nation).
-CRF Mechanism and the fact that is a bolt action means the action can be worked from any position. Including prone, upside down etc. You never know what position you'll be in when the dangerous game attacks, you could be injured etc. and you'll have a hard time working a lever while prone.

CmdrSlander
February 9, 2012, 02:17 PM
Although a walnut stock, a little more barrel and a .375 or .416Ruger chambering would be more interesting.

So something more along the lines of an African Continent DG rifle? We could to that, the M1917 is ridiculously strong so pressure of most modern DG cartridges isn't an issue. You may be interested in our Savanna Sportsman model (20" medium profile barrel, premium well figured walnut stock, deeply blued with traditional [barrel mounted] irons and receiver scope mounts. Caliber is your choice. Price is estimated at $2230).

PS: Like I said in post 1 we aren't in business yet and may never be so don't try to order one from me.

CraigC
February 9, 2012, 02:37 PM
That's more like it!

Hizzie
February 9, 2012, 04:13 PM
African DG calibers in a SS/synthetic rifle with XS sights. Would love to see pics or at least drawings of planned rifles.

Certaindeaf
February 9, 2012, 04:17 PM
A Mosin Nugent is like $80 and you can.. nevermind.

CmdrSlander
February 9, 2012, 04:48 PM
@Hizzie I can get you some line drawings in a few hours (I'll need to find them and upload them).

CmdrSlander
February 9, 2012, 04:50 PM
A Mosin Nugent is like $80 and you can.. nevermind.
Ted Nugent's personal Mosin?

kaferhaus
February 9, 2012, 06:46 PM
I highly doubt you're going to find a high end market for anything based on a 1917 surplus action.

CmdrSlander
February 9, 2012, 07:10 PM
I highly doubt you're going to find a high end market for anything based on a 1917 surplus action.
Surplus? Its newly made by us. Its a strong high quality design.

kaferhaus
February 9, 2012, 07:12 PM
Surplus? Its newly made by us. Its a strong high quality design.

Why in the world use that as a basis for a custom rifle when there are much more appealing/elegant actions out there. The 1917 while strong is about the ugliest thing ever created.

CmdrSlander
February 9, 2012, 07:19 PM
It is more or less a Mauser action. What's wrong with that? I like the M1917 action and it can be made to be quite elegant.

CmdrSlander
February 9, 2012, 07:55 PM
I went through my files when I got home and found the concept line drawing he did when we came up with this a few months ago. Its no CAD model but It's all I have for this one.

http://i44.tinypic.com/j6q6ut.jpg

Rancho Relaxo
February 9, 2012, 08:18 PM
Sounds like a neat idea. I love the 1917 action, but manufacturing it sounds a little odd. My gunsmith has ten Remington 1917 actions hanging on his wall, says they used to be popular for custom rifles but it's now cheaper to buy a factory built rifle that will shoot better than spend the time to custom assemble a big game 1917.

I'll bet you could buy a CZ 550 in 458 and swap the barrel out for a lot less than $1700. The detachable magazine is nice but seems like an odd idea for a backup guide gun unless the guide is going to be doing a LOT of shooting.

CmdrSlander
February 9, 2012, 08:25 PM
The DBM is so the guide can carry extra ammo ready to go if it comes to that (most do in a buttstock cuff on their levers anyway but the magazine swaps faster than reloading a tube mag) also, to have more capacity than a lever, we had to have a protruding magazine so why not make it a DBM. This isn't the be all and end all of guide guns, we will make other rifles based on the M1917 action. We are going to be manufacturer of rifles, not a custom shop that modifies existing rifles, it could be done for cheaper, I'm sure, but our guns are bespoke. Is that CZ 550 hand built and hand fitted? Given a 50 round test for reliability and accuracy? For almost any custom gun there is a cheaper alternative, but custom guns still sell.

Rancho Relaxo
February 9, 2012, 08:30 PM
Do you have a website? You may be the first person I've heard of to manufacture their own 1917 actions, it's an interesting idea. Will these rifles have the Timney 1917 trigger or are you coming up with something else?

CmdrSlander
February 9, 2012, 08:44 PM
Rancho,

We are in the planning stage and our funding fell through recently :( (the gunsmith who has a key partner had medical problems and that comes first). I was putting this up here to gauge interest. Not to advertise a product we are actually making (yet). We have worked out what we plan to make and sell if we do get the shop off the ground, I can PM our planned catalogue if you like. I don't want to create vaporware so I'm not going to claim that you should wait until our rifles come out, because they may never come out, don't change your purchase plans on our account. When we have a product to sell, I'll put up a website.

As for the trigger, Timney or one of comparable quality that we can make or find elsewhere.

Rancho Relaxo
February 9, 2012, 09:31 PM
We are a manufacturer of rifles
So do you manufacture other things or are you planning on manufacturing something?

CmdrSlander
February 9, 2012, 09:35 PM
We are planning on being a manufacturer of rifles. Edited my earlier post as well so as not to confuse anyone else.

Hizzie
February 9, 2012, 10:31 PM
I highly doubt you're going to find a high end market for anything based on a 1917 surplus action.
Art Alpin made quite a business of making custom rifles out of 1917's with his A-Square Rifle Company. Many in very large, very powerful calibers of Alpin's own design. If the Commander can actually get things off the ground and produce rifles of sufficient caliber (pun intended) 1 will be on my short list.

CmdrSlander
February 9, 2012, 10:33 PM
@Hizzie

Thank you very much sir, couldn't have said it better myself. Now, what do you think of the sketch? I know it isn't much.

Hizzie
February 9, 2012, 11:19 PM
Looks like a profile of the Ruger Gunsite Scout to be perfectly honest. I really am looking forward to seeing even a unfinished rifle and wish you and your crew the best of luck. Due keep us updated on your progress.

CmdrSlander
February 9, 2012, 11:22 PM
Same basic idea as the GSR, but not based on it directly. Short barrel, irons, scout rail, etc. he just drew those features and that's what it ended up looking like :)

451 Detonics
February 10, 2012, 09:44 AM
Be a tough sale at that price point, the Navy Arms 45/70 Enfields don't sell well at $400 and the nicer Gibbs are tough to get $600 out of...

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/rifles/GIBBSRIFLE1copy.jpg

Plus it has always been tough to get the big rimmed cartridges to feed well in a bolt. I jus think it would be a very narrow market and tough at the price point in the OP.

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