Sad... terrible... I hate change.


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918v
February 10, 2012, 01:40 PM
I used to love 9mm and 45 ACP Federal pistol brass. It was nice and soft, on the long side, and durable. A few years ago Federal bought new machinery and began to knock out this new ugly crap. Not only is this brass dimensionally different, it is unattractive.

The old brass had what appeared to be a beadblasted flat perfectly crafted casehead. The 45 brass said "FEDERAL" and the 9mm brass "FC". Then, I started seeing this new "dot FC dot" crap. the casehead was concave, shiny, and wrinkled. The casehead was .002" larger in diameter. My loads shot poorly with this brass. So I had to scramble and buy up all of the old style brass I could find.

So I picked up some brass at the range and found a good number of FC cases. I found some dotFCdot, but also some FCdot, and a bunch of straight FC.

Imagine the disappointment, however, when I tumbled them clean and found the straight FC brass was made on Federal's new machinery. The horror!

Federal sucks. At least Winchester still has good brass made on traditional machinery and there are billions of cases just waiting to be picked up.

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Russt
February 10, 2012, 10:20 PM
These days it seems everything you buy is a gamble. I've read bad reviews on winchester brass, & have also been a victim of bad brass, brand new, fresh out of the package winchester brass. Winchester 22-250 used to be the go to if you didn't want/couldn't afford the higher end brass. I had 4 split necks on NEW brass, not fired, not sized, pulled right out of the bag NEW w/split necks. Lost 3 more after the first firing. Winchester is/has been slacking & until they get their act together, they've got their last penny from me. Pistol brass is Starline & rifle brass is Remington or LC for the .223, 308 & 06. Even some of them I've had issues with. You pays your money, you takes your chances anymore.

joneb
February 10, 2012, 11:06 PM
here are billions of cases just waiting to be picked up.

Scrounge well and prosper my friend :)

1SOW
February 10, 2012, 11:49 PM
Sad... terrible... I hate change.

"CHANGE" became a bad word a few years ago. You can bet "CHANGE" doesn't mean "IMPROVE".

Haven't spotted any change in FC 9mm here.----yet
I had so much FC, I put 3000 in my salvage yard can. Maybe I better save it from now on.
9mm: WIN, FC, R&P, PPU in that order.

ArchAngelCD
February 11, 2012, 04:30 AM
I guess I'm the only Remington brass fan. I have been using the same 1200 pieces of Remington 38 Special brass for well over 6 years now and haven't had to toss one in the scrap bucket yet. I've found their 9mm and .45 Auto brass to be good too...

Bovice
February 11, 2012, 05:26 AM
I have ALWAYS thought that my .40 and .45 Federal cases were concave at the head. I dismissed it as the headstamp playing tricks on my eyes. I can't say if they shoot better or worse, since I'm using mixed headstamps.

I have always heard that Winchester was good brass, and I've never had anything bad happen with them. The only thing I don't like is that the teeny tiny lettering thickness of the headstamp never wants to come clean.

my all-time favorite brass is Remington and PMC.

FROGO207
February 11, 2012, 07:52 AM
Well the brass issue is a non issue with me as the firearms all can shoot better than I can anyway.:o This aside I will save my older brass and not part with it if for no other reason than it is most likely better quality than newer stuff. I dislike the trend of cheapening of American products in general.

BullfrogKen
February 11, 2012, 12:07 PM
I loved Federal brass. Used it in my rifles pretty much exclusively.


Then they stopped even making it available as a bulk component. I moved onto Starline for pistol brass.


I have enough Federal 308 that I haven't had to replace it yet. But I'm using Lake City in 223 now.

Fishslayer
February 11, 2012, 02:19 PM
The "dot-FEDERAL-dot" .45ACP is also SPP. I sort by headstamp anyway so no big deal. "FEDERAL" as well as some other brands like Blazer & CCI has a larger flash hole. Except for some that have a normal size flash hole...:banghead:

Federal has nine in "dot-FC-dot" "FC" and "FC-dot." The "FC-dot" definitely has different wall thickness. I can feel them immediatly when seating the bullet.

The "dot-FC-dot" seems to be decent brass but the primer pockets feel a bit loose compared to others.

NeuseRvrRat
February 11, 2012, 04:03 PM
These days it seems everything you buy is a gamble. I've read bad reviews on winchester brass, & have also been a victim of bad brass, brand new, fresh out of the package winchester brass. Winchester 22-250 used to be the go to if you didn't want/couldn't afford the higher end brass. I had 4 split necks on NEW brass, not fired, not sized, pulled right out of the bag NEW w/split necks. Lost 3 more after the first firing. Winchester is/has been slacking & until they get their act together, they've got their last penny from me. Pistol brass is Starline & rifle brass is Remington or LC for the .223, 308 & 06. Even some of them I've had issues with. You pays your money, you takes your chances anymore.

i also had a large number of split necks after 1 firing with Winchester 22-250 brass i bought brand new. my loads are not much higher than starting loads, so that's not the culprit. the ones that made it through that first firing have done very well and i don't think i've had to toss a single one since the first firing. i'm neck sizing only, so maybe that helps.

greyling22
February 11, 2012, 04:40 PM
a lot of winchester 9mm I've picked up has a crimped primer pocket, or at best, no bevel around the pocket. it doesn't reprime well.

edfardos
February 11, 2012, 07:03 PM
new stuff is a crap shoot. New winchester wlp primers pierce, rp brass has insufficient primer pocket support, federal brass has loose primer pockets, new winchester brass is too soft, some cci primer lots are .005" too tall.

I bring calipers to the store these days. The clerks look at me like I'm on fire.

edfardos

1SOW
February 12, 2012, 01:26 AM
a lot of winchester 9mm I've picked up has a crimped primer pocket, or at best, no bevel around the pocket. it doesn't reprime well.

WC or WCC. Some of the WIN Value Pak of 100 shooter's brass I've picked up lately, has been the WCC brass with unbevelled primer pockets. The WWBox "of 50" still has "WIN" brass. So have "SOME" of the Value Pak of 100. They must have two manufacturing locations. The OLD win WC/WCC was the same way, but it's all good 9mm brass if you're willing to bevel the primer pocket holes.

None of the changed 9mm FC brass has shown up at ranges around San Antonio.

speedreed
February 12, 2012, 11:02 AM
About a year ago I bought some unfired Winchester 357 Mag brass. The rims were so large in diameter that none of them would fit in my shell holder. I haven't had any problems with brass from their factory loads though. Maybe they don't QC the unfired brass they sell?

918v
February 12, 2012, 11:11 AM
I have a feeling they sell their reject crap as components.

greyling22
February 13, 2012, 12:42 AM
I can't recall the exact win headstamp. I just started culling them. life's too short for problematic 9mm. 223 as well. (now if it was 30 carb I'd move heaven and earth to salvage every last case)

KansasPaul
February 13, 2012, 07:38 PM
Funny thing, this Federal brass issue - this afternoon I set out to reload some 45ACP - had a bucket of cleaned brass and 500 Hornady HP/XTP bullets that I've been meaning to load for a while. I'm using an RCBS ammo-master progressive. I wanted to pull my hair out - I've never had issues with this press before but I stated to have problems with high primers, sideways primers and tight cases. I thought to myself "what the heck is going on?". When I looked at all of the problem cases, they were Federal. I culled out all the winchester and began to use it exclusively - no more problems with primers. Ran through 150 using the winchester brass and had zero issues. Guess I'll be tossing the Federal brass aside, maybe I'll try using it on my single stage press to see if it functions better?

Blessings,

Paul

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