Need help deciding my first AR


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scandmx5
February 10, 2012, 07:12 PM
I want to buy my first AR. I love AK's but sadly the stocks are just too short for me, so I decided I'll be patriotic and buy an American made AR.

USE:
The gun will be used at the range every now and again, just for plinking and such. No competition shooting or anything. The main reason I want one is to have as security for a SHTF scenario. Don't wanna be paranoid, but I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. No one's taking my Ramen noodles and jerky.


CONTENDERS:
Smith and Wesson M&P15 Sport
DPMS Oracle

I'm well aware the S&W doesn't have a FA or dustcover, but does come with irons where the Oracle doesn't, but the Oracle does have the FA and dustcover. I hear nothing but positive reviews about the Sport, and I hear lots of people bash DPMS, but the folks that actually own the Oracle seem to be happy with it.

I have no desire to put 30 accessories on it. I'd like irons and maybe a reflex style sight and leave it that.

Please help me out with a decision. I hate to ask others to help me decide, but it's a dead 50/50 split on this one.

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FlyinBryan
February 10, 2012, 07:16 PM
you are going to overwhelmingly hear s&w because you cant use a dpms for shtf/self defense.

mljdeckard
February 10, 2012, 07:18 PM
You can put an adjustable stock on your AK. Just sayin'.

I don't believe in FAs at all. If a cartridge is sticking so much that I can't nudge it in with my fingertips pushing the indent on the bolt carrier, I don't want to force it in. I have never once used the FA on my issued weapons.

The Sport is emerging as a well-made base model that does the job well for a very low price. Especially if you really want to keep it stock, I would lean toward the Sport.

Robert
February 10, 2012, 07:30 PM
because you cant use a dpms for shtf/self defense.

Correct.

You can put an adjustable stock on your AK.
Also correct.

Does not matter what you get or modify unless you are training with the weapon or at least making regular range trips it will be usless. Learn it inside and out and you will be fine. AR or AK will serve you fine for what you want to do. If you just want an AR get it. No better reason than want.

Of the two listed I'd go with the S&W. And I'd not worry about not having the forward assist or the dust cover.

needmorecowbell
February 10, 2012, 07:36 PM
I'd get this. Much nicer AR for just a bit more $. If you are deadset on those 2, then definitely S&W.
http://maine-tactical.com/Spikes-Tactical-ST-15-M4-LE-Carbine-with-2-30RD-Magpul-Mag-STR5025-M4.htm

proven
February 10, 2012, 07:48 PM
of those two, stick with the S&W.

scandmx5
February 10, 2012, 08:02 PM
you are going to overwhelmingly hear s&w because you cant use a dpms for shtf/self defense.
Please elaborate? I'm assuming there is humour..

You can put an adjustable stock on your AK. Just sayin'.
I'm a purist. I couldn't do it. Kinda like a polymer 1911 ya know? Blasphemy!
I have an SKS that I love, but the weight of an AR and weight of 5.56 are a big plus for me. And yes I know about the AK74/5.45 lol

I'd get this. Much nicer AR for just a bit more $. If you are deadset on those 2, then definitely S&W.
http://maine-tactical.com/Spikes-Tac...STR5025-M4.htm
That is nice and pretty much everything I would need. Hmmm

bejay
February 10, 2012, 08:06 PM
you are going to overwhelmingly hear s&w because you cant use a dpms for shtf/self defense.
would guess they are assuming reliabilty from brand name alone but would like to hear more also.

acmax95
February 10, 2012, 08:17 PM
I have a DPMS Oracle I bought a few months ago. I really like the gun, it has been reliable and accurate. It has ate all the ammo I fed it including quite a bit of Tula and some Wolf.

I paid $575 OTD for mine NIB. I couldn't get another AR locally for anywhere near that.

Now I am seeing the S&W's all over for just over $600. If I was buying now I would probably get the S&W but I am not going to dump my DPMS to get one.

shrewd
February 10, 2012, 08:40 PM
maybe look at a stag.

mine has been great so far. all the parts they use are made at the same factory bravo company sources their parts from. if you ever feel the need to upgrade you can do so, or put whatever upper you want on the stag and know that it is a reliable platform.

i hear the smith and wessons are good too, so look around for adecent deal?

FlyinBryan
February 10, 2012, 08:46 PM
Please elaborate? I'm assuming there is humour..

ive just read that over and over and over
(i have never owned either)

LiquidTension
February 10, 2012, 08:57 PM
Of those two I'd go with the S&W.

fanchisimo
February 10, 2012, 10:11 PM
Have you looked into Palmetto State Armory? I haven't used one myself but many people on these forums have praised them. As soon as my tax return hits, I'll be picking up one. I owned a DPMS in the past without the FA or dust cover and never had an issue with the rifle so I think any of the two you said would be good. Happy shooting once you decide. :D

230therapy
February 10, 2012, 10:27 PM
Neither.

Bravo Company Midlength Mod 0. It's a great gun for the money and it's cheaper than a Colt 6920.

proven
February 10, 2012, 10:34 PM
bravo company isn't taking orders at the moment, and i'm pretty sure that the price point is a touch higher than the two rifles the op was referring to.

TexasPatriot.308
February 10, 2012, 10:37 PM
Armalite.

FlyinBryan
February 10, 2012, 10:43 PM
Armalite.
the original

TexasPatriot.308
February 10, 2012, 11:19 PM
AR stands for Armalite, any other rifles like these are built on that original platform by Eugene Stoner. still fair price weapons
AND you have a real AR. I own AR15s and Ar10s in various configurations and they are Armalite save for a Rock River or 2.

ugaarguy
February 10, 2012, 11:24 PM
AR stands for Armalite, any other rifles like these are built on that original platform by Eugene Stoner. still fair price weapons
AND you have a real AR.
The REAL Armalite has been out of business for decades. They also sold all the rights of the AR-15 - name, patents, et al, to Colt. So, if you wanna get technical Colt is the only company making real AR-15s. Armalite is just a name that Eagle Arms bought. The current Armalite makes copies just like everyone else.

ETA: Armalite is also outside the price range of the two rifles the OP listed. Of the two listed in the OP the S&W M&P15 Sport is a far better rifle. Rather than retype a bunch of stuff I'll just copy & paste a post I made regarding the DPMS Sportical vs. M&P15 Sport. I've edited the Oracle's info in for accuracy.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7668937&postcount=2
Neither Rifle has: Dust cover, forward assist, or heat shielded handguards.

The DPMS Sportical Oracle has: a 1:9 twist, conventionally rifled, unlined, untreated bbl. Chamber may be correctly cut to 5.56 NATO spec, or may be tight. The carrier key may or may not be properly staked, but probably won't be. The bolt is not High Pressure Tested (HPT) & Magnetic Particle Inspected (MPI). The receiver extension, AKA buffer tube, is the weaker commercial spec. The receiver extension castle nut may be staked, but probably won't be. The included stock is DPMS economy Pardus model. No rear sight is included, and the gas block is railed. If I remember correctly the DPMS rifles ship with a two USGI type aluminum mag.

M&P15 Sport has: a 1:8 twist, 5R rifled, unlined but Melonite treated bbl - this gives you near hard chrome lined bbl life without the potential for accuracy loss from the hard chroming process. Chamber will be properly cut to 5.56 NATO spec dimensions. Bolt carrier key will be properly staked. All M&P15 rifles, including the Sport use bolts that have been HPT & MPI. The receiver extension is the stronger mil spec unit, with a properly staked castle nut. The stock is a standard M4 spec unit. The gas block is a flat top upper correct F height front sight unit. A MagPul MBUS rear sight is also included. The Sport, like all M&P15 rifles, ships with a single MagPul PMag.

In short, the M&P15 Sport sells for about the same price as the DPMS Sportical; but the M&P15 Sport has vastly superior hardware and assembly.

RedTag
February 10, 2012, 11:28 PM
I have to say that if you are looking at a DPMS oracle in 5.56 then maybe you should also look at the H&K 5.56. A little bit more but it's my favorite rifle that I own!

FlyinBryan
February 10, 2012, 11:29 PM
if it says armalite on it, isnt it an armalite?

i mean the dallas cowboys aint aikman, smith, and irvin, or owned by clint murchison, but they are still the cowboys right?

fatcat4620
February 10, 2012, 11:35 PM
AR stands for Armalite, any other rifles like these are built on that original platform by Eugene Stoner. still fair price weapons AND you have a real AR. I own AR15s and Ar10s in various configurations and they are Armalite save for a Rock River or 2.

I dont think an original 50 year old AR built by Stoner is in the budget :D


Either one will work just fine as long as you love it, learn it, and shoot it. All the parts come from the same 5 parts makers anyway.

Tomcat47
February 10, 2012, 11:42 PM
Of your choices....S&W I Suppose?


I went through this a while back and settled on a Colt LE6920 after much deliberation and forum discussion here on THR!

If this helps....here it is....A lot to take in tho! :)
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=567230

And getting ready to get another one soon....here is pic of one with new Colt Defense Super Stoc. They are still right at $1k

ugaarguy
February 10, 2012, 11:48 PM
if it says armalite on it, isnt it an armalite?

Does the current Springfield Armory in Illinois have anything in common, other than name, with the real Springfield Armory in Springfield, MA?

Ask yourself this too: Why does Armalite call their AR-15 clones M-15 instead of AR-15? That's right they can't call them AR-15 because the real Armalite sold the AR-15 to Colt in the 60s as stated above.

ugaarguy
February 10, 2012, 11:53 PM
All the parts come from the same 5 parts makers anyway
Sure. S&W forges their receivers in house. Their barrels are made in house my T/C Arms. Just because there are a few major companies that forge the receivers most other companies use doesn't say anything about how those end makers finish machine the forgings, what finish they apply, or to what standards they build the rest of the rifle.

proven
February 11, 2012, 12:04 AM
All the parts come from the same 5 parts makers anyway

and can be made to different specs. some are assembled by skilled professionals and some are assembled by incompetent monkeys

*ugaarguy beat me to it

scandmx5
February 11, 2012, 12:04 AM
Thanks for all the responses guys.

ugaarguy- Thanks for that indepth info on the internals of the two I listed. That definately sold me on the Sport for sure!

I know everyone recommends the high dollar brands, but for what I need, I'm sure the S&W will be more than good enough for me. I'm just not at the point where I want to drop $1000 on a platform I'm completely new to. I love my S&W handguns, so I'm sure they won't let me down with this beginner rifle. If I end up getting into the AR game, then who knows I might get a higher grade M&P, but until then this will work. I also hope to get the g/f shooting it as the SKS and my Model 70's are too much recoil for her. She's not fond of rifles now, so hopefully this will help spark interest.

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