[2005 Vette]

Yesterday we were cleaning out my father in laws home as he's moving into an assisted living apartment. He's a WWII vet and hasn't thrown away anything in 65 years. So we found this barrel of stuff that was a virtual treasure trove of WWII collectables. There was bayonets and a Japanese knife, money and coins. We got towards the bottom and we found two live type 97 Japanese grenades. There were probably 15 of us in his basement in somewhat disbelief what we found. After researching the type 97 they were unreliable when new but we had no idea how unstable they were 60 years later. We called the local authorities and they called the bomb squad out to dispose of the grenade. It sure livened our day up.

[Rail Driver]

I hope you guys get the de-activated grenades back! I'd have contacted a lawyer first to ensure that the relics were returned.

[Sam1911]

I hope you guys get the de-activated grenades back! I'd have contacted a lawyer first to ensure that the relics were returned.


Please tell me you missed the sarcasm smiley?

You want the EOD team to de-activate them, and then return them? You know they just blow them up, right? They aren't going to risk their hands and eye -- or lives -- to disable an unfamiliar, unstable, and antique, foreign grenade, just so you can have a memento of grandpa's illegal and lethal keepsake.

You know grandpa -- or whomever was in possession at the time -- was technically on the hook for a 10 year prison sentence and $250,000 in fines for possessing an unregistered NFA Title II item, right? (Does that get doubled for two?)

And they came and took them without any further unpleasantness? I'd call that a "win." And I think I'd give the good folks in the responding agency a hearty thank you, and maybe offer them a nice glass of tea and some cookies or something, to express my gratitude for taking care of this nightmare without ruining anyone's life over it.

[Rail Driver]

Please tell me you missed the sarcasm smiley?

You want the EOD team to de-activate them, and then return them? You know they just blow them up, right? They aren't going to risk their hands and eye -- or lives -- to disable an unfamiliar, unstable, and antique, foreign grenade, just so you can have a memento of grandpa's illegal and lethal keepsake.

You know grandpa -- or whomever was in possession at the time -- was technically on the hook for a 10 year prison sentence and $250,000 in fines for possessing an unregistered NFA Title II item, right? (Does that get doubled for two?)

And they came and took them without any further unpleasantness? I'd call that a "win." And I think I'd give the good folks in the responding agency a hearty thank you, and maybe offer them a nice glass of tea and some cookies or something, to express my gratitude for taking care of this nightmare without ruining anyone's life over it.
My best friend works for an EOD unit in Detroit. His unit gets calls for similar situations from time to time - At least twice, last year that he told me about. While the possession laws are fairly clear, most people (in his unit anyway) have the sense to realize and take into account that the reporting party had nothing to do with the acquisition (and were not aware of the existence of) the Title II items. His unit has deactivated and returned several WWII "bringbacks" over the years he's worked for them.

Sure there's a slight amount of TECHNICAL risk involved in reporting such a thing, but do you really expect me to believe that someone can successfully be prosecuted for something someone else did in this situation?

[Sam1911]

Grandpa's still alive. Just moving. He can't claim this is someone else's fault.

If you know someone who does this for people, wow, that's cool.

[Rail Driver]

Grandpa's still alive. Just moving. He can't claim this is someone else's fault.

If you know someone who does this for people, wow, that's cool.
Not everyone buys into the "Zero Tolerance" BS that has been injected into our loving, caring government. If I didn't have kids, I'd be working EOD and doing my best to do the same.

[hso]

There's no realistic concern on the legal front, but the pure safety hazard is obvious. I'm surprised anyone would attempt to demilitarize these things.

[GoingQuiet]

What is a surise?

[outdoorsman1]

I'm thinkin suprise spelled wrong (typo)....

Outdoorsman1

[kbbailey]

I thought "rising sun".??

[crazy-mp]

As the older generations pass on, for a nicer term, more incidents like this and unregistered firearms will surface. I have picked up a really nice M1 Garand and M1 Carbine in the past few years because grandpa died and nobody in the family wanted them or grandma wanted them gone so the boys wouldn't fight over it.

[2005 Vette]

Typing with my I pad and not proof reading,it was supposed the be surprise at grandpa's sorry for the typo. The detail I left out my father in law is retired LEO and a high level retiree as well. The local LEO that showed up was very amused by the situation taking pictures of the grenades. He was most interested in making sure nobody got hurt. Real nice kid. I think we can cut the greatest generation a little slack bringing home some souvenirs when they were in their 20's not really thinking through what they would really do with a live grenade. Looking at the stuff in the barrel he probably hadn't looked in there in over 40 years. I'm thinking at age 87 he didn't remember he had them in there.

[7.62 Nato]

My best friend works for an EOD unit in Detroit. His unit gets calls for similar situations from time to time - At least twice, last year that he told me about. While the possession laws are fairly clear, most people (in his unit anyway) have the sense to realize and take into account that the reporting party had nothing to do with the acquisition (and were not aware of the existence of) the Title II items. His unit has deactivated and returned several WWII "bringbacks" over the years he's worked for them.

Sure there's a slight amount of TECHNICAL risk involved in reporting such a thing, but do you really expect me to believe that someone can successfully be prosecuted for something someone else did in this situation?
Yeah, I've seen the "ordinance" they've blown up on Belle Isle. Funny how many people are told before it's "disposed of" to join the party. Even the photos/videos shown on the news confirm it's inert. Too many agencies justifying their existence through the ever willing to comply media.

[memphisjim]

id be tempted to go to the woods and set them off

[csa77]

I would have kept them. maybe drive to our family property and set one off, but keep the rest. too unique to get rid of.

[Trebor]

would have kept them. maybe drive to our family property and set one off, but keep the rest. too unique to get rid of.

That's a horribly dangerous idea. Do you know how unstable, and at the same time unreliable, 70 year old explosives typically are?

There is fairly decent chance one could blow just from handling it or in the ride to the car out to the property.

And, at the same time, the other issue is that old explosives are unreliable. There's no guarantee WHEN or IF they will explode when you pull the pin or, with a Japanese grenade, bash the primer on a rock, to set them off. It might go off instantly or with an overly short delay. Or, it might not go off at all, at least not right away, and now you have an unstable "dud" explosive out there as a hazard.

Old explosives are too unpredictable to take chances with. There's no telling what will happen when you move them or try to deliberately set them off and the danger is very real.

Not trying to pick on you particularly, but other people will read this thread and the dangers of messing with unexploded ordanance shoudl be made clear.

[7.62 Nato]

Might take out a few Asian carp trying to make their way into the Great Lakes from Obamaland, I mean Chitown. lol

[shiftyer1]

So grandpa, speaking of hand grenades. Oh shoot I forgot about those things u didn't tell nobody did ya. lol

Good thing these weren't found thru the years by snooping grandkids.

Happy to hear the whole thing was taken care of without alot of hassel.

[newbuckeye]

You're lucky EOD didn't blow them in place!

[doc2rn]

This is why god invented Tannerite!(SP?) Almost all grenades are black powder and comp B or some blend there of. Incredibly stable, under most instances. These could easily be demilled and returned as curios or as I have done for friends in the past, used tannerite or better yet tannerite and propane and an old car in a ditch +300 yds! I love helping people clean up!

[Mp7]

Just the fact that one assumes the Law enforcement would react bitter on
a call like that ... makes me not want to live in america, btw.

That is common sense.

[Sam1911]

I would have kept them. maybe drive to our family property and set one off, but keep the rest. too unique to get rid of.

Let's once more point out that possessing ONE of these grenades is a crime with a penalty of 10 years in federal prison and a fine of $250,000.

Tell me again how great an idea it is to keep a few around for nostalgia's sake?

Not to mention the instability of old explosives and the insane risk to yourself and your family.

We have GOT to be smarter than this. :scrutiny:

[Sam Cade]

Not to mention the instability of old explosives and the insane risk to yourself and your family.


Type 97 used a TNT filler right?

Impure, wartime manufacture, desperation TNT?

Not something you want to knock off of a shelf after 70 years of exudation.

:uhoh:
*shudder*

[paintballdude902]

http://www.inert-ord.net/jap02h/grenades/t97/index.html

[Cop Bob]

I remember some years ago, some of my buddies in the Bomb Squad had recovered some German Potato Mashers, They were scared to death of them.. Seems that the materials, especially the fuse material had a tendency to denigrate over time and could become somewhat unstable. Something about crystals that can form that could ignite/detonate with very little friction or tampering.. There was some mention of Japanese Grenades having the same type of issues... I doubt very seriously if anyone would attempt to de-mil them..

On a side note, one of my buddies picked up a dummy/training Japanese anti-tank mine,, we set it in our office, right next to where the Bomb Squad parked their truck and used it as a door stop... One of the Bomb Squad guys came by, we asked him to close the door, when he budged that dummy mine, he turned ghost white.. was pretty funny.. Then he went into the stories about the unstable property's of some axis power fused explosives..

[shootniron]

These things have turned up with regularity over the years and I have never heard of any being prosecuted. However, it is bonehead thinking to have these things around...nostalgia or not.

[crazy-mp]

I have never heard of anybody getting prosecuted to the full extent of the law because dad or grandpa had a unregistered machine gun or hand grenade. They might confiscate the item, but it also depends on your knowledge of the law.

If you are a FFL dealer and you have paid your SOT (class 3) and the ATF does an inspection and see a original Thompson in your safe, your probably not going to have that gun much longer and your license might get taken off the wall.

[zignal_zero]

I'm not one to advocate turning in things that are family owned just because there are words written down on paper, somewhere, that says I have to. Nor do I advocate doing so out of fear that tyrants will send henchmen to capture and enslave you, if you do not follow their every order. HOWEVER, I would not be ANYWHERE near out dated X'plôz. I would have called 911 just as fast as if the house was ablaze. I'm glad to hear your story ended with a chuckle and not crying.

[allaroundhunter]

On a side note, one of my buddies picked up a dummy/training Japanese anti-tank mine,, we set it in our office, right next to where the Bomb Squad parked their truck and used it as a door stop... One of the Bomb Squad guys came by, we asked him to close the door, when he budged that dummy mine, he turned ghost white.. was pretty funny..

This right here......is a jerk move :neener:

[WardenWolf]

Well, this type of thing was fairly common after World War II. Various bits of ordinance would get brought back and sneaked into the States. And it still obviously turns up every now and then. Law enforcement pretty much treats these legacy explosives as they always have: they get rid of it, but don't prosecute. I mean, really, they're not going to prosecute a 90 year old World War II vet who did something stupid at age 20 and then forgot about it for all these years. It would even be hard to argue in court that he knowingly possessed it.

[fatcat4620]

JCMB! I would want to cook one off but my brain would have kicked in and I would have done the same thing. When my grandmother died (after grandfather) we had to call the ATF to get rid of some stuff. They just picked it up like they do it all the time.

[Jaymo]

TNT gets unstable with time. IIRC, it starts to sweat out nitroglycerine.
That is not something I'd want to be anywhere near.
For my money, the bomb squad can have 'em. I don't want 'em.
I don't want aything X'ploz. Propellants are one thing. X'ploz are way too dangerous to play with.
Ever see the pics of the left hand of the guy who made 37mm bird bombs and tried to shoot one? It went boom in the tube. Not much left of his hand. Had to have it amputated above the wrist.
I wouldn't want any part of it.

[Elm Creek Smith]

"TNT gets unstable with time. IIRC, it starts to sweat out nitroglycerine."

Nope. That's dynamite. TNT is difficult to detonate on a good day. Old TNT can develop cracks where impurities can accumulate which increases sensitivity to shock, but it's still very stable.

ECS

[Jaymo]

Oop, mah bad!

I still don't mess with X'ploz. Stable or otherwise, they do nasty things.
When I was in my early teens, there was a Korean teen who was making his own X'ploz using pipe. He was screwing the cap on it when it went BOOM!
My best friend's dad was EMS and responded to the 911 call.
He described the limb loss/injuries and the fact that the surgeons were going to have to "rig up a way for him to pee".
That was more than enough reason for me to never mess with any.
IF I ever had any interest in them, it died that day.
I'd like to keep all five of my appendages attached and undamaged.

Plus, I hear tell that there are a LOT of unpleasant activities in prison.

I'm glad that there are demolitions and EOD professionals who know how to use/deal with them. I wouldn't want to be one of them.
Just like with firefighters. I'm glad there are folks who run into burning buildings for a living, but I can't resist my natural urge to run away from them.

[CleverNickname]

Let's once more point out that possessing ONE of these grenades is a crime with a penalty of 10 years in federal prison and a fine of $250,000.

It's actually 10 years/$10,000. And IIRC federal sentencing guidelines would pretty much guarantee probation for a first offense where the only violation is possession. Someone would have to already be a felon or be committing other crimes at the same time to get the max.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5871

Still stupid to play around with them though.

[mboylan]

It's actually 10 years/$10,000. And IIRC federal sentencing guidelines would pretty much guarantee probation for a first offense where the only violation is possession. Someone would have to already be a felon or be committing other crimes at the same time to get the max.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5871

Still stupid to play around with them though.
Nobody gets off with probation for possession of an unregistered machine gun. It's usually two and a half to three and a half years in prison, if that's the only charge and a first offence. You get a Federal felony. You lose your right to vote or ever possess firearms again. There is no expungement. You need a Presidential pardon.

[Sam1911]

It's actually 10 years/$10,000.

Really?

The ATF says:

Q: What can happen to someone who has an NFA firearm which is not registered to him?

Violators may be fined not more than $250,000, and imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both. In addition, any vessel, vehicle or aircraft used to transport, conceal or possess an unregistered NFA firearm is subject to seizure and forfeiture, as is the weapon itself.

[49 U.S.C. 781-788, 26 U.S.C. 5861 and 5872]

[Sam Cade]

Old TNT can develop cracks where impurities can accumulate which increases sensitivity to shock, but it's still very stable.


How pure was late-war Japanese TNT?

...and that makes it scary.

[tallpaul]

I believe they upped the penalties a few years back...

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Luckily I doubt they would would prosecute an 87 year old man and give him 10 years. I wouldn't play around with such hardware either, seems too dangerous and risky for me.

Couldn't you legally register one of those grenades? Can someone educate me on the ownership of grenades?

[Sam1911]

Couldn't you legally register one of those grenades? Can someone educate me on the ownership of grenades?


Like all other NFA items, registration happens prior to (or at the point of, if an SOT2 manufacturer) making of the item. If an NFA item is not registered, then it is contraband and cannot be registered.

See the ATF's NFA FAQ: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html

[Wildbillz]

Nobody gets off with probation for possession of an unregistered machine gun. It's usually two and a half to three and a half years in prison, if that's the only charge and a first offence. You get a Federal felony. You lose your right to vote or ever possess firearms again. There is no expungement. You need a Presidential pardon.

Never say never. I use to do some work for a law firm

I know of a guy out in Cali that got poped with 2 unregistered MGs. Drew Probation and got re-instatement of his rights at the end of it. It just took good lawyers and a bunch of money. I was not priviy to the details of the plea agreement but I did see the outcome of it. No Prison and retained his rights (I don't recall if there was afine or restatution but I would suspect there was).

WB