[sjohns]

I have been looking around for 7.62x51 or suitable .308 bullet molds.

I can't seem to find anything suitable. Of the 308 molds, all seem to have a flat or round nose. No 7.62x51 molds to be found anywhere.

I am looking for something a little more ballistic friendly. I have found nose point dies, but they seem to be for jacketed bullets.

If you haven't figured it out yet, yes I am new to this. I know I can find plenty of supplies, but I am looking to make my own boolits.

Has anyone done this?

[rcmodel]

All proven designs:

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/select-mould-rifle.php?styleRef=cat06#anc

The reasons are:
You can't pour molten lead into a bullet mold and make sharp pointed spitzer bullets.
The lead will not fill out the mold.

And you can't drive them at 3,000 FPS to take advantage of the shape, even if you could.

rc

[sjohns]

Is there anything there that you have been able to make work reasonably well?

[hang fire]

Duplicate, so deleted.

[hang fire]

Re rcmodel:

You mean it can’t be cast like this, and others.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c85/Landric/user221_pic791_1242715921.jpg

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&cp=20&gs_id=1s&xhr=t&q=spitzer+cast+boolits&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=spitzer+cast+boolits&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=935a0bef009a2890&biw=960&bih=465

Good thing the guys who shoot paper patched cast boolits don’t know they can’t be driven to 3,000 fps.

http://www.google.com/#pq=paper+patched+boolits+at+3%2C000+fps&hl=en&cp=14&gs_id=7p&xhr=t&q=paper+patched+cast++boolits+at+3,000+fps&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=paper+patched+cast++boolits+at+3,000+fps&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=935a0bef009a2890&biw=960&bih=465

[Certaindeaf]

I use the 311334 in my 30-06.

http://www.three-peaks.net/bullet_molds.htm

[Chief 101]

"I use the 311334 in my 30-06.

http://www.three-peaks.net/bullet_molds.htm "

I like 311290 from the same page...

[Offfhand]

Quoted from above post:
"You can't pour molten lead into a bullet mold and make sharp pointed spitzer bullets.
The lead will not fill out the mold."

Tried not to laugh, but sounds liker somebody needs lessons in basic bullet casting..

[evan price]

Lee's got a spitzer tip that is intended originally for the 762x39 but will work fine for the 308. Mold #90385.
C-312-155-2R
It's a gas check design (of course). Comes as a 2-cavity with handles for about $20 new.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/752956/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-c312-155-2r-762x39mm-312-diameter-155-grain-2-ogive-radius-gas-check

[GooseGestapo]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I've got that same mould. Get the one with regular lube grooves, not the tumble-lube version.
I size all my '06 and .30/30 cast bullets to .311". I get much superior accruacy at that sizing, over .308 or .309".

I typically load the "Spitzer 160gr" (what mine casts at) over 24.0gr of #2400 for about 1,900fps. It has fed well through my b/a rifles and shot very well through a couple of SKS's I had. Accuracy has been excellent likewise.

In deferrence to RCModel, I haven't had any problem getting good cast spitzer bullets. The biggest reason for lack of spitzer cast bullets is that the RN and FN bullets typically feed better and perform better on game, though my experience of an example of "ONE", is that the Lee .311" PtdGC performed well and expanded sufficiently on the deer I shot with it from my b/a '06 with aforementioned load. But, I did place it well. (shoulder/spine broadside shot). Performance was about like a jacketed .30/30 round at same speed.

For speeds greater than ~2,200fps, you WILL need to do things like heat treat the bullets, and/or paper-patch the bullets.

As for ballistic performance, my interests in cast bullets has been accuracy to 100yds, and game performace. I've never had a problem with the flat-nose or round-nose bullets feeding from a b/a or l/a rifle. If you are shooting an autoloader, you will likely have problems with cast bullets due to softness of lead and lack of ability to shoot the neccesaary velocities for gas pressure/volumn to operate the actions, unless you don't mind manually operating the action.

I routinely removed the gas piston on my SKS's and used them as manual actions to avoid loss of reloadable brass. Think straight pull bolt actions....

[A Pause for the Coz]

Lee's got a spitzer tip that is intended originally for the 762x39 but will work fine for the 308. Mold #90385.
C-312-155-2R
It's a gas check design (of course). Comes as a 2-cavity with handles for about $20 new.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/752956/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-c312-155-2r-762x39mm-312-diameter-155-grain-2-ogive-radius-gas-check
I second this choice. So far it is my all around bullet. I shoot it in my SKS, 30-30 bolt action, Mosin Nagant M44. Actually I have yet to find a gun this bullet wont shoot well out of. I have shot the sized from .308, 309,311 and as cast. Tumble lubed, Lube sized and pan lubed.

Want some good plinking loads. try 8.5 gr Unique in smaller cases I.E. 30-30 and 7.62x39
try 11.5 gr Unique in larger 308,3006 and 7.62x54R You will like what you get.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_8069.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_7886.jpg

[35 Whelen]

There are TONS of moulds for the .308 (7.62x51). Lyman's 311299 mould is much more "pointy" than it looks in the pictures. Lyman gives it a ballistic coefficient of .377 which is purty good. It's about my favorite .30 caliber mould of the half dozen or so I own. Here's what the bullet looks like:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Cast%20bullets/314299withhomemadechecks-1.jpg

Cast of wheelweights, mine weigh about 205 grs. which I like. I figure if you can't run 'em fast, may as well use a heavy bullet!

Head over to the Cast Boolit website and look into group buys. A day or two ago I recall seeing a mould that cast a very pointy bullet. the moulds in their Group Buys are all custom made. I have one and it is of EXTREMELY high quality and you can get a 4-cavity for less than $100.

35W

[Certaindeaf]

^
Are those aluminum checks?

[sjohns]

Thanks for the response so far. I'm starting to think that making my own for competition or long range shooting won't work well unless I am using a bolt gun, and that I might have difficulties with an AR 10 or M1A. Do I sort of have that right?

[35 Whelen]

^
Are those aluminum checks?
Yes, home-made aluminum checks from a Frr-Chex II die. I have since made a die that goes in a single stage press and punches out the checks.

35W

[Certaindeaf]

^
Saweet!

[35 Whelen]

Thanks for the response so far. I'm starting to think that making my own for competition or long range shooting won't work well unless I am using a bolt gun, and that I might have difficulties with an AR 10 or M1A. Do I sort of have that right?
Sort of right. If you're talking about High Power competition, you'll likely have a hard time getting cast to function AND provide reasonable accuracy. But if you'll switch to a bolt rifle, it's very, very do-able. My cast loads fired from my K-31, 1903 or 1903A3 EASILY hold the 10 ring at 100 yds. on the 600 yd. reduced target. To do this requires 10 shot groups no more than 1 3/4".

If you'll head over to the Cast Boolit site and search for "Bob S", this guy has done lots of High Power competition with cast bullets. In fact he received a Master classification firing a bolt action 1903A3, using cast bullets at 200 and 300 yds. then switching to a Sierra 168 gr. MK for 600 yds.
Regarding a .308 hunting bullet, I have a Lyman 311291 mould in hollowpoint form. My oldest daughter and I have used it to take I'd guess 8 -10 deer. Cast of straight wheelweights, I load it to around 1900 fps and have never lost a deer. the furthest was killed by my daughter at a hair over 100 yds. Here's the bullet:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/hollowpointsentrance.jpg

I find this bullet to be the most accurate .30 caliber cast I've used in my .308 and 30-06's...probably because it's a RN which keeps the weight of the bullet nearer to the base which of course enhances accuracy.

35W

[Dthunter]

I second the use of the 311299 in a bolt rifle!

The bullet is a "bore Rider" design.
The nose of the bullet is designed to be very close to bore diameter, to allow a cast shooter to seat the bullet further into the bore. This gets the bullet closer to the rifling, and helps align the bullet in the bore better. Usually a very accurate design.

In my .308win, i have great fun, and success in shooting sub 1" groups.
I have 3 different loads capable of this. Ranging from 1600-2100fps.
I use IMR SR4759, 2400,& Varget.
I size my bullets to .310".
For the last 8-10 groups my average is around 0.750".
I was amazed at this
Bullets performance!

One thing to watch for, is try to pick a bullet style that will allow a shooter to function the action properly, AND allow for the base of the bullet not to protrude below the bottom of the neck inside the case. This is a heavily debated subject, but all I can say is, I started precision cast bullet shooting only a year ago and noticed a big difference in all
Of my precision rifles.
This boolet design also tends to group tighter when the overall length of the loaded round allows the bullet to engrave the rifling.

I have been shooting long range for years (1000- 2000+ yards), so I have learned to record everything I do to achieve the performance of a load.
Some shooters are o.k. With seating the boolets deeper, but at a cost of the bullets/cartridge accuracy potential.

I have had good results with the 311291 & 311644 as well.

[35 Whelen]

In my OP I mentioned the 311299, but I actually prefer the 314299. This bullet will drop from the mould at about .314" but can be sized down. I typically size mine down to .311" for use in my various '06's and the rifling fully engraves about 2/3 of the bullet. Makes for a really accurate bullet.

35W

[sjohns]

So... now I have been getting a few bullet molds off of Fleabay and have a few now. I fanally managed to find a 169 grain 311413 quad mold.

So I was trying to discover the groove diameter for the Armalite 7.62. I assume it really is 311, but I can't verify it anywhere not even at Armalite. They are playing that "proprietary" information game. I told the guy that I would probably slug the barrel to get it and all I was hoping for was the general spec to make sure I use the right sized slug. NO cooperation whatsoever. I gues they don't reall give a crap about the end user.

Quite frankly I don't give a crap either about their imaginary "State Secret" either. What a load of garbage.

But from everything I have been able to gather, the groove dimension is important because if I were to undersize that dimension, then there will be some gas blow by and therefore some leading to deal with constantly. So I am thinking it will definitely increase barrel wear if I don't get it right.


I see that some of you guys size the bullets to 311. I'm thinking this is probably right. I just want to know for sure. Searching the net, the closest I have come is some general explanatory paragraph about the change from 30-06 to a smaller projectile and that was supposedly the .308 with a groove diameter of 308.

Does that sound right?

http://www.chuckhawks.com/definitive_service_caliber.htm

[dogrunner]

I've been paper patching my old Lyman 311041 and getting decent accuracy at around 2700 out of my '06. Have not tried it on game yet, but I get full function from my BAR and a clean barrel to boot. Used that bullet for years in the .30/30, .303 Sav. and the '06 with Alox & stock gas checks. Performance with the paper patch is every bit as good with a hulluva lot more oomph!

[35 Whelen]

In all likelihood the groove diameter of your rifle is .308, but of course the only way to know for sure is to slug it which is a relateively simple process.
Clean your bore of all copper then get a round ball or fishing sinker made of pure lead that's .310" or more in diameter. Lube it with something like BreakFree CLP and start it in the muzzle with a brass faced hammer or brass punch. Continue driving it with an aluminum rod or a 1/4" dowel (I use oak). After the piece of lead travels a few inches, they can normally be pushed the remainder of the way, but tap it if necessary. (Note: use a heavy hammer, the heaver the better. I use a 2 lb. sledge) Catch the lead as it drops from the chamber then measure its diameter at the widest point with a micrometer.
That simple!
One more thing....

The last week or so I've been working with a 311672 out of one of my K-31's. I've mounted an old 10X Weaver scope on it for load testing purposes and with 14.0 grs. of AA#7 it groups 5 shots into well under 1 1/2" @ 100. I had a group yesterday that measured but 7/8". Evidently, this is a VERY accurate design.

Good luck with your 311413.

35W

[sjohns]

Whelen!

A local friend told me about a sustance that some guys use to slug barrels that isn't solid lead and does a good job. I will see him later this week and try to let you know what it is.

That 311672 at 160 grains should work well. Are you using linotype or wheel weight?

Finding the right molds is really tough. I was partial to the 311329 but haven't found any.

I do like that 413 though. I am hoping I can develop a good paper puncher for range. If I can figure it out, It should make a fair hunting bullet as well.

What I DID find out on the armalite site is that they suggest bullets in the 150 to 185 grain range.

I actually sort of enjoy doing all this homework.

[popper]

Use pure lead for slugging. It is more difficult if you have a flash hider. 150-180 gr CBs. GooseGestapo - I assume you mean stove-pipes batter your cases when the gas is on.

[adrians]

i wish somebody would have told me you can't cast spitzers or spires ,i would,nt have wasted my time doing these,,;)

[EMC45]

Quoted from above post:
"You can't pour molten lead into a bullet mold and make sharp pointed spitzer bullets.
The lead will not fill out the mold."

Tried not to laugh, but sounds liker somebody needs lessons in basic bullet casting..


I actually laughed when I saw this. I think I may need to throw out all my already cast spitzer "pointy" bullets and the molds when I get home. They have got to be defective.

[CatManDo]

If you look real close guys, those aren't "sharp pointed" bullets. Compare them to the jacketed variety and you will get the "point".:neener:

[35 Whelen]

If you look real close guys, those aren't "sharp pointed" bullets. Compare them to the jacketed variety and you will get the "point".:neener:
How's this for pointed?

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/311365mould.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/311365.jpg



Guess no one bothered to tell the mould maker that cast bullets can't be pointed!

35W

[EMC45]

Internet "experts" never cease to amaze me!


Those are some fine looking boolits .35 Whelen!

[CatManDo]

Got to admit, those are pretty sharp. The 311299's don't look very sharp but these do. What's the mold#?

[texas chase]

35W-

Let me guess... 190 gr 308 for the Swiss?

Nonetheless, those are sweet!

[Lonely Raven]

Wow those are fine looking!

I think I want to use a mold like that for .308 Win precision shooting on steels.

I'd love to know the mold number!

I've got about 300lbs of lead I've been cleaning up and turning into Ingots. I think I'm ready to take the next step and buy the molds.

[35 Whelen]

Got to admit, those are pretty sharp. The 311299's don't look very sharp but these do. What's the mold#?
I think I want to use a mold like that for .308 Win precision shooting on steels.

I'd love to know the mold number!


It's a mould produced by Night Owl Enterprises. It currently is available on a Group Buy over on the Cast Boolit forum: 311365 Rerun (http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=129043)

You can go over there and get dibs on one. Just specify 1,2,3,4 or 5 cavity, gas check or plain-base, spitzer or hollowpoint. Payment due in June, production scheduled for July, if memory serves.

35W-

Let me guess... 190 gr 308 for the Swiss?

I wish! They're too big for the Swiss I think, but I do plan to try them!
35W

[CatManDo]

I've got one coming, should get here next Tuesday. I plan on trying to get this to work in my 300 Blackout.

[interlock]

this is a problem. i thought i was quite happy. i thought my 7mm08 model 7 would be ok with 139 interlocks... after all my shots are normally pretty close in the woodlands of England. then i find that i might like to try to cast my 7mm bullets. I know i wont be able to leave this alone now! i understand these rounds can be really accurate. i have maybe 200lb of lead...

[CatManDo]

I got it and made some today. Weight approx 199.4gr. Somewhat more difficult for me to get the hang of what the mold wants as far as alloy, and temp, but I'll get there.

[Certaindeaf]

^
Cast faster/hotter and perhaps a bit more tin. I like that design.. tell us how it shoots for you.

[Lonely Raven]

Wow, how did you get the 311365 so fast? Was it a used one?

I want that one, and a .45 HP die and I'll be set for the next few months at least.

[CatManDo]

The Mold is a used one, but I couldn't tell it had any use. I did add Solder to the alloy, but I will add more, and crank up the temp a little. I'm excited to get these trialed.

[Certaindeaf]

^
Cast faster too.. pretty much about as fast as you can. That's been my experience with iron double cavity 200gr .308/.311.

[CatManDo]

This Mold is aluminum by NOE, and I cast as fast as I could. I think the temp on the alloy/Mold is the key.
Thanks
Sparky45

[Certaindeaf]

^
Very good.. I shoulda clicked on the link in the first place.
You can make a pile of bullets in a hurry with a four cavity.

[sjohns]

Hey guys!

It's been a long time since my last post.

I have slugged my barrels, but can't find a kit for that 5.56. I would suspect that sizing to 224 would ok in most cases?

I have picked up about a dozen lyman molds to cover the calibers I have.

of the 311s I have a 329, a 332, a 334, a 413 and a 414. (Can I say "obsessive?) One of these will work well, then I'll just sell off the rest. THAT IS.. once I get into it.

I have a couple of 225s and stuff for my other guns. I plan on using Lyman #5 lead for all the long gun stuff. I am aware of letting it sit around for a couple of weeks before loading it.

Since I am talking about ARs here for long guns, I'm thinking that in order to get things right for a magazine load I ought to stay in the vicinity of 180 to 185 gr and less?

[popper]

For the 308, depends on your twist and what you want to do with it. I shoot 165 FN from my AR 308, works fine. 180 will go slower so drop @3-400 will be large. Haven't tried it but I doubt you will get to 600 with any accuracy. I just consider mine as a SA hot rodded 30-30. What is lyman #5 lead? I cut #2 or high antimony and add chilled shot, heat treat. I'd start @.310 and reduce until leading or inaccuracy sets in. Slugging an AR is a pain. Above .310 you will probably need a different expander and it might not chamber anyway. 168 Amax or SMK appears to be the long range target bullet.

[sjohns]

Thanks Popper!

I slugged this barrel 309 is what I need.

Lyman #5 is basically an alloy of lead, Linotype and Solder.

I think it gives an 18 or above on the hardness test.

One of these ancient lyman papers talks about two formulas:

A: 5 1/2 lbs wheel weights, 1 lb 50/50 solder 3 1/2 lb lead
B: 4 lbs linotype, 1 lb 50/50 solder, 5 lba lead.

OOps.. this is for #2 alloy. Not 5

I also have gotten quite a bit from Fleabay so that I don't have to do so much work.