[esheato]

Not sure if I missed the thread for this, but I can't seem to find one.

Surprised you guys aren't talking about it yet.

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

As for me, I like the way they picked teams...felt it was more fair than last season. I also felt like the women got a fair shake and got off to a good start. Gabby seemed like she was in her competitive element and I expect her to do well.

I couldn't believe the two members sent home immediately. They both have impressive resumes but you know what that means....nothing!

The knifemaker (Dylan) and the cattle farmer (Keith) appeared to have some skills as well.

Lastly, I'm curious how the big game hunter from Wy fares. Looking at his bio, he seems well versed in weapons other than firearms and that has to help some. On the flip side, he has no competitive experience.

[Kingofthehill]

I enjoyed it, and don't forget tonight the new show "Top Guns" is on. It appears to be Top Shot without the competition and more history of the firearms.

[wbwanzer]

When was it on? Tuesday night?

[esheato]

Yeah, last night.

Ohh, I didn't really feel like there was a Jake in the group....Kyle kind of rubbed me the wrong way though. Being a police commander, he might feel like he should be the team leader.

[Kingofthehill]

When was it on? Tuesday night?

Top Shot Tuesday's 10/9c

Top Guns Wednesday's 10/9c
http://www.history.com/shows/top-guns also hosted by Colby of top shot.

[Ryanxia]

I hated the double elimination in the beginning, especially based off of ONE SHOT. It didn't help that my first pick got sent home. At first I didn't like the 'miss one of your targets and they all go back up' but after thinking about it, it looked close enough for them to be accurate and kinda mixed it up a bit.

[jim243]

Just watched on historychannel.com, best season to-date, really fair this time. Do it or go home. What could be fairer.

Jim

[crracer_712]

Chris Collins' (3rd season) brother Jeff was my CCW instructor.

[beatledog7]

I liked the team challenge. The format made it last a while, even in edited TV mode. Kind of dozed off during the elimination--frankly, I find that really off-the-wall sort of challenge to be contrived and corny.

[kenken]

I thought it was great.

kenken

[allaroundhunter]

Just watched on historychannel.com, best season to-date, really fair this time. Do it or go home. What could be fairer.

Jim

I agree, its gonna be a good season (for the most part)!

[al123]

They've had to make changes to the format to keep a surprise element. Some worked out well, some didn't.

The worse change-up, IMO, was in season two, where in the green shirt (individual) competition, only one person was guaranteed a safe spot. It devolved into an unpopularity contest. The ratings actually nosedived for the rest of the season.

This instant elimination at the start might cull people who have a great rep, but really can't shoot. The season one cowboy comes to mind. So I thought this was a good twist that you had to shoot your way in.

If you had a bad day and weren't ready, well that could've happened anytime during the competition. Those are the breaks.

[noshis9s]

I love that they are doing so many of them. Seems like the 3rd season just ended a few months ago.

When I first saw the show during the first season, I wasn't sure how well it would do. Glad it turned out to be popular. :)

[memphisjim]

i was suprised by how far several of the misses were with the m14
if you are selected over 1000's you should be decent

[Kingofthehill]

Memphis- I'm glad that wasn't In my head lol. I was watching thinking how awful some shots were. Not what I expected anyways.

The episode was very good so far, I'm looking forward to it that's for sure.

I am watching top guns right now and also enjoying it but I know the history and own each of the guns so I can't wait for something new to me I can learn

[Fatdaddy]

Wasn't the m-14 challenge at 200 yards?
6'' from center isn't too shabby with iron sights at 200.
I just wonder if they were given a test shot to see where the rifle "printed" first.

Last season was ruined by "you know who", seems like a good bunch so far this season.

[Arkansas Paul]

Maybe the ladies will stick around a little longer than usual. I hope so. :)

[Kingofthehill]

Maybe the ladies will stick around a little longer than usual. I hope

I hope so too. Its getting old that they seem to get rid of them for any little thing.

[Dr.Rob]

I noticed they handled the Vaquero differently. SOME reloaded for the next person if they missed, some did not.

They left out familiarization with the Vaquero, so maybe that decision was left on the cutting room floor too.

I watched it late last night and caught Top Guns on time. I'm enjoying both.

As for the initial elimination, I suspect the point was again to 'shake things up'. Two champion shooters went home, and the 'underdogs' shot very well.

The M-carbine from the sidecar worked out better than the Stagecoach round, and it certainly looked lihe fun.

[memphisjim]

it looked more like 100 yards but im not certain

[Jeremiah10:23]

The only thing about TopShot that irks me is the simple fact that if a guy (or gal) has 1 bad day it could mean the end of their ride when statistically they are the stronger shooter.

[Gregaw]

1 bad day it could mean the end

I think that's the way it should be! Otherwise it wouldn't be very exciting. One bad shot could mean the end for anyone there. That's the way competition is often designed. Google "Matt Emmons". :)

[Ryanxia]

You shouldn't be eliminated based off ONE shot. Everyone has a bad shot sometimes.

[beatledog7]

One miss and gone is realistic in many ways. Just ask a cop, a soldier...oh wait, many of these guys who missed once aren't around to ask.

[Hootus]

it looked more like 100 yards but im not certain
It was a 200 yd shot, with iron sights, in windy conditions, using a common rifle (not personally sighted separate firearms), under pressure, with no second chance. I'm not a rifleman but most of those shots seemed impressive enough to me, especially by the ones whose primary shooting skills were not with a rifle.

[browningguy]

Sorry, but I don't watch any of the "reality" TV shows. I watch most of the shooting shows on Wednesday Night at the Ragne, but the reality stuff is just crap.

[Arkansas Paul]

Sorry, but I don't watch any of the "reality" TV shows. I watch most of the shooting shows on Wednesday Night at the Ragne, but the reality stuff is just crap.


Freedom of choice is a beautiful thing isn't it. :rolleyes:

[KodiakBeer]

it looked more like 100 yards but im not certain

I'd have guessed fifty yards, but that's one of the failings of the show. They should tell the audience what the range is.

[esheato]

They should tell the audience what the range is.

They usually do...and I remember them saying it in the episode we're talking about.

You shouldn't be eliminated based off ONE shot. Everyone has a bad shot sometimes.

I feel it's fair. If you are selected out of thousands of applicants for a show called TOP SHOT, you should be able to summon the skills on demand and perform at a level above the ordinary shooter. If you can't, you get eliminated.....simple.

[mac66]

Interesting show. I thought the M14 challenge was good. Some of those people had terrible prone form and some simply choked. That's the way it goes.

The women did pretty well this time. See how long they last. They are usually put on the show as tokens, hope they do better this season.

I can already see the guy (federal police officer) who won the elimination round is set up to be the big mouth antagonist for this season. I am sick of him already but I know he is the chosen one to make drama.

[Striker Fired]

Now if only the way the people that get selected into elimination would change so it was how they acually shot not who is popular and who gets ganged up on,regardless of how good they shot.Thats is the ONE thing that I hate about it and haven't been able to watch a full season yet.
It should be like REAL competition where every shot gets a score and the two that shot the lowest score goes to elimination.PERIOD. No "voting".They could make it interesting without the voting,but that would probably get rid of the precious drama,that the producer think every show has to have.My $.00001

[Dazen]

I'd have guessed fifty yards, but that's one of the failings of the show. They should tell the audience what the range is.

He clearly states that they each will be firing a single shot at a target 200 Yards down range.
I can understand how easy it would be to miss that cause one would be focused on the
beauty of that M1A!

[Scuba_Steve]

I don't have cable, but do have a HTPC hooked up for streaming. I watched it last night along with Top Gear USA. If I'm going to watch TV, I can't think of a better way to spend two hours.

[9mmepiphany]

They should tell the audience what the range is.
They did when the announced the challenge...it was 200 yards. The focal length of the camera lens makes it seem closer. I was hoping the kid would stick around longer...he really is a very good shot...guess he doesn't shoot a rifle at that distance much. Every little mistake is magnified by the distance to the target.

I liked the odd-even finishing position for selecting the teams...statistically the Odd team should be stronger. This made a lot more sense than the artificial pairing and winner-loser makeup of the teams from last year, while avoiding the bromance from Season 2

The team challenge really set the tone for this season...they aren't allowing much room for error. The IT guy did surprisingly well, I think his repeated missing on the team challenge was a wake up call that this isn't going to be just going to the firing line and popping off rounds.

I think the two Asian guys are at opposite ends of the skill spectrum on the red team. One is a former Marine who now works as a range master in the L.A. area (SoCal) and the other is an IT guy for Google out of San Francisco (NorCal)

[theautobahn]

I am wondering about familiarization with the guns as well. I'm curious as to whether they got any practice shots with the M14/M1A to determine what their particular POA/POI would be with that gun.

[9mmepiphany]

I'm thinking not...as they were all at the same advantage/disadvantage...just like the Sharp's rifle last season

[drsfmd]

Without being able to sight in the rifle at all before taking the single shot that decides if you go home or not, it's really the luck of the draw...

[61chalk]

I liked the show, got off to a good start....was is "little John" that won the M1 Carbine challenge....they said he was a World Champion Grenader.....?....I was a grenader at times in the Army.....but a World Champion....?.......is there such a thing....?

[Husker_Fan]

I tend to think judging them on the size of a five shot group would be a better test of marksmanship, but the one-shot format was fair and probably makes for better TV.

[tdstout]

My $.00001

What is that, a peso?

I really like the show, but like most people on here, I think that it should be more about skill instead of a popularity contest when it comes to who goes to the elemination challenge.

[Dravur]

Actually,

Part of what you didn't see is that each Marksman was allowed 2 shots on another target to check POA. Then they took their one shot.

That whole thing took over 8 hours to shoot. They also had to shoot twice for the cameras for close-ups etc.

[Gregaw]

I'm glad to hear that. It makes a lot of sense to do it that way. Do you happen to know if they got to practice with the revolver before the team challenge?

[allaroundhunter]

Do you happen to know if they got to practice with the revolver before the team challenge?

I'm pretty sure that they did, it wouldn't be top shot if they hadn't. I think with the extra elimination though they just had to edit it out so as to fit their 1-hour time slot.

[AethelstanAegen]

I'm glad someone mentioned the Top Gun show...I hadn't know that existed and it was pretty entertaining...there was less of the typical reality show drama there...though I noticed the editing wasn't great (ie they'd be discussing the M1 Carbine and show pictures of GIs firing Garands, or discussing the M14 and showing a picture of an M1 Carbine...haha). I think both shows are fun to watch just to see what kind of targets they have set up and just to see someone enjoying some shooting.

[KodiakBeer]

One of the things that always gets me - probably because I was taught by my dad who was a WWII vet - is how few shooters use their sling when shooting a rifle. It was particularly evident in the carbine challenge where both shooters were shooting with the sling dangling in space instead of using it to steady the rifle. If either one had used their sling, I suspect they'd have cleaned all ten targets.

There are so many truly great handgun shooters around today, but so few good rifle shooters. The basics are getting lost...

[mac66]

Good point Kodiak. As an Appleseed shooter and instructor, I just cringe when I see these guys not using their sling and not using good prone form. Both makes a big difference.

I am surprised that some of these guys don't have any experience with some of the guns. If I was going to be on Top Shot I sure as heck would be out gathering up all different kinds of guns to shoot and become familiar with. I sure as heck would learn to shoot at long distance with a rifle in both prone and standing. I sure as heck would learn to shoot at moving targets and learn to shoot while moving.

[Madcap_Magician]

The other thing though, is, was the sight battlefield-zeroed, or how were the irons zeroed?

At that range, the difference between accuracy could be as simple as whose shooting fundamentals most closely aligned with whatever zero the iron sights had.

[henschman]

I probably wouldn't have used the sling in either of those challenges (and I'm an Appleseed shoot boss!!) ;)

The whole point of a sling is to turn your body into a solid support, for use in the field when you don't have a nice solid rest like a sandbag in front of you. When you do have a nice solid rest in the field... well, you use it. And a sling is really not good for dynamic shooting like from a moving platform, in which you have to do large target shifts under time pressure. Especially on relatively large and close targets, like those were... you couldn't benefit much from the extra stability it would give you. Better to compromise stability in favor of speed in that one, I would say.

It seems like that is the case for most prior Top Shot rifle challenges... the targets are rather large and close, and there is time pressure. If you don't need the sling to be able to get a hit, then don't waste the time it takes to sling up.

[biga972]

One miss and gone is realistic in many ways. Just ask a cop, a soldier...oh wait, many of these guys who missed once aren't around to ask.


Very true.

[KodiakBeer]

The whole point of a sling is to turn your body into a solid support, for use in the field when you don't have a nice solid rest like a sandbag in front of you.

I suspect you're dead wrong, though I don't have a motorcycle with a sidecar to prove it!

They were bouncing along a road at 20 mph or so. The rifle is hanging out there in space magnifying every bounce. Anything that would lock that rifle to their torso better would help.

[Dazen]

I'm glad someone mentioned the Top Gun show...I hadn't know that existed and it was pretty entertaining...there was less of the typical reality show drama there...though I noticed the editing wasn't great (ie they'd be discussing the M1 Carbine and show pictures of GIs firing Garands, or discussing the M14 and showing a picture of an M1 Carbine...haha). I think both shows are fun to watch just to see what kind of targets they have set up and just to see someone enjoying some shooting.

I liked Top Gun too and your correct they do need to work on the editing .

[valnar]

I can't believe Buckland went home during the first episode. Wow. It's a shame they don't get a couple practice shots just like the do in all eliminations. Yah, using one shot and only one shot for choosing the teams is one thing, but every elimination after this first round at least gives the shooters some time to practice with the weapon in question before being sent home. That was not the case.

To those in this thread that used the analogy of "one shot is all that matters" when comparing against a soldier, Police officer or Olympic shooter.....well, you're partially right. In all those examples, they were allowed to use THEIR weapon that they were familiar with. If my life (or gold medal) relied on that one shot, I'd want the same opportunity to be familiar with the gun first.

The eliminations are normally pretty fair. That first one was not. Every competitor from this point on will get the opportunity to shoot the gun a couple times first.

[Sniper66]

I DVR the episodes and fast-forward thru the non-shooting activities, which get boring. But the shooting events with all the different firearms is an absolute hoot. I would love to do some of the shooting, but the show makes me realize what a crappy pistol shooter I am. But, I could hold my own with some of the rifle and shotgun segments. I definitely would have made it thru the initial elimination, but would have bombed the second segment. Very entertaining show when you ignore the dialogue at the house.

[FloridaGix06]

Maybe the ladies will stick around a little longer than usual. I hope so. :)

I can't believe no one else mention Michelle Viscusi...

21, a gun model, seems to have some shooting skills, and DAMN lol

The show just got more interesting:D

[9mmepiphany]

It's a shame they don't get a couple practice shots just like the do in all eliminations...
That was not the case.
...that was shown during the show.

With only an hour long episode, and wanting to get in 3 shooting competitions (Initial Elimination, Team Challenge, Team Elimination), it would make sense that so of what they did would end up on the Cutting Room floor. My understanding, from another forum, is that the Initial Elimination took 8 hours to complete

[valnar]

Well, if they indeed got practice time with the M14 before that one shot, then yes, I suppose Buckland deserved to go home.

[Pindarslight]

I've only watched one season fully, and odds and ends from others. I'm really not into these shows, now full metal jousting...get me some.

[theautobahn]

Actually,

Part of what you didn't see is that each Marksman was allowed 2 shots on another target to check POA. Then they took their one shot.

That whole thing took over 8 hours to shoot. They also had to shoot twice for the cameras for close-ups etc.

Dravur- where did you get this information?

[Kingofthehill]

Dravur- where did you get this information?

although i can't answer for him, until this current season this was filmed a couple of miles from my house. I work in the movie industry and am always takling with friends and finding out what the latest scoop is and who to be jealous of when they get a great gig like this.

a friend who is a sound guy there and knows a little bit about guns, not a lot but he says a typical film day of the guys on the set is between 5-10 hrs and they shoot ahead of what you see so they can find POI.

[Certaindeaf]

It's an even field. That first laying of hands was about as level as you could get. Competition is good.

[Smokin Gator]

One of the contestants said on his blog that they got 2 sighter shots earlier in the day with the rifle. It was hours later that they took the 1 shot that counted. So they did at least get that. I would still prefer that they shot even just a 3 shot group for size as opposed to the single shot. The motorcycle side car challenge would seem to be set up better for the left hand shooter, or someone that shoots well right or left handed. I liked the plate rack challenge, although sometimes they don't seem to differentiate between the shooters who shot larger or smaller targets as far as the credit they get for doing it successfully. Mark

[9mmepiphany]

although sometimes they don't seem to differentiate between the shooters who shot larger or smaller targets as far as the credit they get for doing it successfully
The teams decide among themselves who gets to shoot each size target.

It would only make sense that the less proficient shoot the larger targets and the more proficient tackle the smaller targets. If someone thought they were good enough to shoot at a smaller target and then found their skill somewhat lacking, that should count against them...as a lack of self awareness

[esheato]

Alright, I've got issue with grenade launchers....LOL. Who really has practical experience with weapons like this? This isn't a competition of skill but luck with those type of guns.

Also, those first explosions were C L O S E.

Lastly, I kinda liked Keith, and wished he would have stomped on Kyle, but c'est la vie.

Shotguns next week should be cool too.

[DAP90]

Alright, I've got issue with grenade launchers....LOL. Who really has practical experience with weapons like this?

I used a grenade launcher in AIT. Not that one and not to any great degree but many people have used them. It is a gun of sorts, has a repeatable trajectory, sights, etc. I’ll take it.

Those were some big explosions. Some of that wood shrapnel went far enough that it looked like someone could have gotten hit if they'd been flung in another direction.

So far the challenges and eliminations have been excellent. I even saw an Atlatl in the previews, so maybe the producers read the last thread here and took some notes.

[9mmepiphany]

Who really has practical experience with weapons like this? This isn't a competition of skill but luck with those type of guns.
I think the ultimate test of shooting skill is the ability to shoot a weapon that you have no/little experience with....how quickly you can adapt and use basic skills (as opposed to practiced skills)

If you based it on experience with weapons, then it becomes a competition of familiarity

[broadsidebarn]

I agree. Those explosions were way too close. Some of those boards were landing about 20 yrds from the contestants. That one guy didn't even flinch though. I wish I could meet that one girl on there. We could talk guns all day ha. Oh, I will own of those m1a's they shot on the first episode one day. I will probably have to still dream for a little while though.

[Nugilum]

Who? Michelle-A.K.A Miss RSA (Red Star Arms)?

[broadsidebarn]

Yeah, Michelle was her name.

[Smokin Gator]

"The teams decide among themselves who gets to shoot each size target.

It would only make sense that the less proficient shoot the larger targets and the more proficient tackle the smaller targets. If someone thought they were good enough to shoot at a smaller target and then found their skill somewhat lacking, that should count against them...as a lack of self awareness."

This is true. But I don't think that right out of the gate you could accurately rank each shooter according to their ability to shoot a single action revolver (in this case). Of course if someone steps up and says, give me the most difficult target, and then screws up, it's on them. But if by default a shooter is given one of the more difficult sets of targets, he should get credit for it. Mark
__________________

[Certaindeaf]

Alright, I've got issue with grenade launchers....LOL. Who really has practical experience with weapons like this? This isn't a competition of skill but luck with those type of guns.
.
The atlatl will be coming up shortly.

[Dr.Rob]

Think the red team memebers who did't get a chance to shoot sure looked bummed. Another stage I would have loved to shoot. The BAR is my favorite full auto and that looked fun.

[KodiakBeer]

I'm sure they were using inert grenades and setting off the explosions remotely.

[nosmr2]

Great season so far, all 2 episodes. Not really down with the current flirting and "grab butt" going on with Michelle and earring boy, that needs to be left on the cutting room floor. But it's reality TV, so whatever.

I enjoyed Top Guns, especially the casual pace and laid back just hanging out shooting attitude of the first episode. Wasn't really a Colby fan at the beginning, but he's kinda growing on me. As ridiculous as it is to stand back there and yell, "blue team takes the lead" I guess it's a necessary evil. Looking forward to another episode of Top Guns tonight after the Outdoor Network programming.

[Carl N. Brown]

My thought was that the explosions were initiated by tannerite targets from impact of the inert grenades (the shots that missed appeared to me to be orange chalk markers when they impacted the ground). It was however the coolest and most exciting event so far in the series.

My father used the BAR in WWII and preferred it over all other weapons available in the New Guinea through Luzon campaigns. That was cool to watch also.

[memphisjim]

speaking of shotguns next week i havent caught a long enough look at the shotgun
im pretty sure its a benelli is it the m4 again or a supernova or something else

[9mmepiphany]

I had a chance to talk to Chris Cerino (runner up in Season 1)...we knew each other from prior training classes...and I thought what he had to say was very insightful.

He felt that there would never be another group like that in Season 1, because everyone in the house was really there to just have a good time shooting and not make a name for themselves. I get a lot of that same vibe from the contestants this season...sure there is some marketing going on if you follow them on FaceBook, but they do seem to be enjoying themselves much more than the last two seasons

[AethelstanAegen]

Wasn't really a Colby fan at the beginning, but he's kinda growing on me.

+1, the episode of Top Guns helped with that...made him a little more interesting then the race announcer.

Also, the explosions in the grenade challenge were definitely either set off by the reactive target or remotely detonated, they definitely weren't firing live HE grenades (it did look like orange chalk marker rounds).

[SharkHat]

I've been a Colby fan since his first season on Survivor. I thought I had read an interview that his banter during the challenges was done to emulate Jeff Probst.

[DAP90]

speaking of shotguns next week i havent caught a long enough look at the shotgun im pretty sure its a benelli is it the m4 again or a supernova or something else

It’s an M4 shooting slugs at a moving target; which sets off a clay thrower when hit. A Vinci is used for the clays; presumably by a different shooter.

I wonder how many gun companies are now lining up to donate guns for use in filming.

[sawdeanz]

I thought it was a great episode. Two very awesome weapons. I thought the grenade launcher was a great idea, the idea is that they need to be proficient with all types of weapons (hence throwing knives, bows and such). I think that is why they have the chance to practice with them.

[tarosean]

I was like holy crap!!! till they missed the targets and they were just smoke. Freaking pyrotechnics makin it seem cooler than it actually was...

[Ryanxia]

Great episode. Once I saw the same reactive targets for the grenade launchers I knew they were using non-exploding rounds.

Those explosions were really big though, some of the debris got pretty close to the shooters. Bad luck if the other guy's smoke drifts in front of your target after it's cleared of your own smoke :)

[youngda9]

Being downwind definetly was a disatvantage...but he still pulled it off doe to the other guy's mistake. Just wish they coulda fired real grenades, that would've been cool.

[Kaeto]

Not at $200.00 a shot in addition to the cost of the rounds.

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Would have had to have some really HUGE distance between targets if they were to use live HE rounds. Just think about how many misses there were. Get close and still "hit" the target with the explosion. No way they could use live HE's.

[Carl N. Brown]

Live grenades require $200 tax and registration as a NFA destructive device in the NFA registry. Then, after its exploded, you have to have the registered device removed from the NFA registry. Lot less paperwork to use inert rounds.

[tarosean]

Live grenades require $200 tax and registration as a NFA destructive device in the NFA registry


you sure they couldn't obtain a permit?

[KW]

Live 40mm wouldn't have been visually impressive. The lethal radius of a 40mm HEDP is only 5m, but they likely would have had to stay well back to ensure no one caught a random bit of frag. The white cased rounds with a blue tip are definitely chalk. Here's a link to a promo for a Tac TV episode with Larry Vickers shooting some real HEDP out of an M203 (the one labeled grenade launching and myth busting): http://www.thesportsmanchannel.com/programming/descriptions/description.php?ID=447

[Hunterdad]

Regardless, I thought it was a good episode. I don't think anyone including Colby thought the explosions were going to be that big. He genuinely seemed surprised.

[61chalk]

Post 88....Winnner. I've shot hundreds of them in my M203 in the Army. They are not impressive. We hit logs an small bunkers that did little damage. They are probably less than half a grenade in power, we are talking HE. Everytime I see a Chuch Norris movie an he's using them I want to just scream. They also have to have so many rotations (range) before exploding.
A Marine friend of mine that served in Nam said on patrol the grenader accidently fired his at point blank range into the thigh of another guy, of course at that range it didn't go off, they had to fight to keep from laughing as the hit Marine just gritted it out.

[Grousefeather]

Should be better than last, at least I did get to see a SEAL quit. If he was a SEAL.

[al123]

Wow the Blue team didn't seem like they were competing. It looked more like they were jogging in slow motion. They weren't prepared at all.

Sorry to see Michelle go. She seemed competitive, but was lost in the final challenge.

[nosmr2]

Which team said a few episodes ago that they were going to send members to the elimination challenge based solely on performance?

[Smokin Gator]

The big guy on the blue team that insisted he would not vote to send one of his friends home, even if they were the worst performer, should have been voted off. Also, he stated that if he had to vote off one of his friends, again, even if they were the worst performer, it would be the hardest thing in life he's ever had to do. I guess he's had a pretty comfy,charmed life if that would be the worst thing he's ever faced. Mark

[Dr.Rob]

Yeah he was having an emo moment a little too early in the selection process. Arguably the two worst performers DID go to elimination, but there were a lot of shooters that didn't fare well.

[Arkansas Paul]

And the eye candy is gone. Darn it, I knew that was gonna happen. As good as she performed in practice, I was surprised that she did so poorly in the elimination challenge.

[Inebriated]

Sad the pretty one is gone, but at least the guy from Charlotte made it!

[9mmepiphany]

I've been really impress at how the IT guy from Google is holding up

[valnar]

Yah, the prettiest girl ever on Top Shot is gone.

In previous seasons, I would have picked a favorite by now. For some reason though, nobody is grabbing me yet.

[beatledog7]

Littlejohn sat there all sad and said he wouldn't vote to send one of his friends (and he named them) to elimination. Two things jump out here:
1) He declared the others to be not his friends
2) In the end, he voted to send one of his friends.

In my mind, he's the one who needs to go. Then again, we have to have an antagonist-type to keep the show interesting, and he's it.

[kenken]

Looks like to me that LittleJohn is the 'Chosen One' this season. He will be around for a while.:scrutiny:


kenken

[nosmr2]

I was thinking the same.

[Ryanxia]

Sadly my pre-season pick was LJ :(

I too miss the eye candy :'(

[9mmepiphany]

Both my picks are on the Red Team. The old guy (Kyle) and the rangemaster (Chee)

[Inebriated]

In previous seasons, I would have picked a favorite by now. For some reason though, nobody is grabbing me yet.

I feel the same. Aside from the pretty one, I don't have a favorite. The guy from Charlotte is a natural pick, but only based of him being local.

So far, I can only think of Chris Reed as being my pick from the first episode (so glad he won, btw), so maybe I just need to see the performances of each.

[Dr.Rob]

Anyone else catch Jay Lim on Top Guns? His shot was the only one I'd call an exhibition.


As far as favorites on this season... no one is really standing out yet to me either. Sure there are big personalities, but no one 'dominating' shooter. The IT guy bears watching.

FYI I tought that gal had a great chance to win that challenge based on the practice session. So much for cheering the underdog.

[Inebriated]

Yeah, I thought she had it in the bag. And I did see Jay, I was surprised. Kinda cool to see even the losers get an opportunity to get themselves out there. Jay shot great all season, so I was glad to see him.

[Kingofthehill]

She was pretty good looking. Sad to see her go :(

Always nice to have some eye candy.

[9mmepiphany]

She was holding up her duties as a team member, but in a one-on-one contest, she just didn't have the confidence or determination to keep up with the Brit.

The Elimination was a balance of timing and speed. She was hitting, but she wasn't timimg her shots to keep the momentum of the wheel rolling

[Carl N. Brown]

They are keeping a scorecard over at Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Shot_(season_4)

[tarosean]

I liked that elimination challenge...

Seemed like that would be fun to make one for the back yard in pistol cal's.

[9mmepiphany]

They are keeping a scorecard over at Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Shot_(season_4)
Wow...some folks are real fans

[harrygunner]

Man, everytime they use a Benelli, I start thinking I NEED a M2 or M4. I talked myself out of it from a previous season, now they did it again. :cuss:

[biga972]

Man, everytime they use a Benelli, I start thinking I NEED a M2 or M4. I talked myself out of it from a previous season, now they did it again. :cuss:


Then Top Guns showed them off again :cuss: I might need to stay away from the lgs I think I really want an m4:banghead:

[UpTheIrons]

+1, the episode of Top Guns helped with that...made him a little more interesting then the race announcer.
And the razzing Chris Reed gave him in this week's episode of "Top Guns" really helped to show a more 'relaxed' Colby. Chris turned the tables and did the whole "shot commentary" while Colby was shooting - I just had to laugh.

[Certaindeaf]

.I too miss the eye candy :'(
I also like sweets but in the prior episode they were crawling through bobwired gravel and bomb laden pits and then she shows up for final reckoning in a getup assured (by prior experience/knowledge) to hang up/provide permanent injury in this attire.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-viCvbch9yqc/T1ACQGnQC4I/AAAAAAAAB2g/6ZECv0f8Dr4/s320/TopShotFashion.jpg

anyway. pablum for nevermind.

[HOOfan_1]

They've been together for what...a week..2 weeks, maybe 3 weeks and are getting weepy about sending each other home....come on.

[Kingofthehill]

Link to Wikipedia was a little wrong. just a tad off

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Shot_%28season_4%29

no big deal though.

[Elkins45]

Cute face, but she's all tatted up. Guess I'm old school, but that really turns me off.

I did think that was an interesting and well-engineered challenge. She didn't necessarily get out-shot, but she did get out-thought since the timing and the physics was so important.

[Dr.Rob]

Let's try to keep tis thread from drifting shall we?

Discussions on the merits of tattoos are pretty far off topic.

[DukeNukem]

I wonder if they'll ever do an all women version of Top Shot. I'm generally in favor of competitions that have men and women competing together whenever it makes sense to do it that way, but having an all women competition might be interesting for change and might help get the female general public more comfortable with firearm useage.

[maskedman504]

I am pro Red Team right now. Kyle is a natural (or skilled) leader.

The blue team leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Dylan, the knifemaker, comes across as super pompous. Michelle, the woman just elminated, used the phrase 'kick-ass' in every interview and Greg Littlejohn just can't seem to vote for his friends and won't nominate people based on performance? Ugh. I have never made a friend in a few weeks....

[8654Maine]

So far the actual shooting events are interesting. M14, BAR, motorcycle sidecar w/ M1 carbine, M32A1, and Benelli shotguns. Whoa, come on. That is awesome.

I could care less about the drama. Heck, I think they're setting things up w/ the Red team being all lovey-dovey, and w/ Mr. "I can't vote off my friends".

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

LMAO@ "Give me a dirty bandanna for a consolation prize" Man I swear that Greg fella is a bit on the "girly" side!!! I thought I was going to split a damn rib laughing so hard!

[SharkHat]

Anybody notice Colin firing those last few rounds after Colby called the cease fire, and then throwing the gun down in anger?

[Dr.Rob]

Greg is coming across as a little strange. But everyone is ribbing him about it.

Maybe the friendship bracelet is the 'kiss of death' ;) "I know it was you Fredo!"

Google-fu must mean 'I am a cross bow master!'. The IT guy continues to impress, and under pressure.

[biga972]

Greg is worse than a chick.


No offense to the women on the board.

[JR24]

Top shot getting extra advertising from S&W? I'm not against the M&P but that's two elimination challenges its gotten, give some other striker-fired .40 a chance!

Sweet set up though, if I only had a lot of money and space I'd be building all of these things, looks like so much fun.

[Smokin Gator]

When they gave Greg a chance to talk after the elimination challege, you would have thought that he just tore up the challenge and easily eliminated the other shooter. He said something like, "They learned not to send me to another elimination, if they don't want to get sent home by me." He just barely squeaked by after having a big lead and then having a difficult time giving the other shooter a chance to beat him. He did win, but I wouldn't be bragging as if I just shot fantastically. Then he acts as if all of the other shooters would be so honored to receive his wristband. Oh brother. Pretty funny. Mark

[9mmepiphany]

I'm not against the M&P but that's two elimination challenges its gotten, give some other striker-fired .40 a chance!


You gotta pay to play...or at least donate/loan equipment

[al123]

I thought the blue team did not do too badly in the crossbow challenge. Greg does have a tendency to freeze in the team challenges.

Colin just got smoked for his turn. He should've done better. Also, in the elimination round he was having a lot of trouble. He was the logical choice to leave.

A little too much touchy-feely drama about Greg. :confused:

[Kingofthehill]

Watching top guns right now, that girl in glasses is just drop dead georgous! Julie golob I pretty darn cute too! What a great episode with these 2 beauties that can shoot.

[Dr.Rob]

THAT episode of Top Guns was a SW commercial. But did you note Colby's slick catch the bullet on unloading trick? He's been shooting with some pros to learn that flashy stuff.

[Kingofthehill]

Yeah this one was a s&w commercial but last week was all benelli.

I'm fine with how they are doing it so far I guess. It's a pretty good gun show that isn't all about "the game changer!". Lol. Dang these liars annoy me, I can't watch sons of guns. What a dangerous shop.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2merdle.jpg

I can't get enough shows about firearms. Considering all of the ones I watch only have 10 minutes or so that actually interest me, I need more haha. And lately in a weird war Colby isn't buggin me so muh, it's like he I really learning about guns and shooting. I just found it funny when h picked up an mp and he said " never fired one of these before". Really!

[al123]

For someone like me who is not 'super' knowledgeable about firearms, this was an informative show.

Yeah, it's a little thick on the promotional side just like the previous episodes.

I noticed that Brad and Maggie still had to adjust to the revolver double-action trigger - just like the rest of us mere mortals ;). They had the same pulling problem.

Colby has got be familiar with large caliber revolvers. He was proficient right out of the gate.

[Kingofthehill]

I am really starting to like "Top Guns" more than Top Shot but this Season's Top Shot is pretty good.

What is up with the big guy crying all the time and then giving bandana's like they grew up together and one died.

Other than that drama, I am loving the fact that the quality of guns are getting better and better. Remember the 1st season with that junk zastava.

[nipprdog]

When they gave Greg a chance to talk after the elimination challege, you would have thought that he just tore up the challenge and easily eliminated the other shooter. He said something like, "They learned not to send me to another elimination, if they don't want to get sent home by me." He just barely squeaked by after having a big lead and then having a difficult time giving the other shooter a chance to beat him. He did win, but I wouldn't be bragging as if I just shot fantastically. Then he acts as if all of the other shooters would be so honored to receive his wristband. Oh brother. Pretty funny.

Agreed. On the preview for next week, they show him "choking again".

[browneu]

I enjoy both shows and gives me the itch to go shooting. I have to say watching Colby shoot gives him more credibility to host Top Shot.

Greg seems to be very emotional, which is affecting his shooting.

I wish the show would release their schematics for building their targets. I'd love to have the setup like in the elimination challenge.

[SharkHat]

I found the slow-mo shots of the M&P40 firing to be very interesting. Watching the front end of the polymer frame twist and buck as the slide cycled is something you can't catch at normal speeds.

Now I want to see similar angles of other polymer framed guns for comparison.

[nwilliams]

This is a disappointing season of Top Shot if you ask me, I'm just not impressed by any of the shooters, last season was better.

I do really like Top Guns however, much better show IMO. No drama, just mature people shooting guns and having a good time doing it!

[harrygunner]

Gabby Franco and William Bethards seem to be level-headed, good shooters.

Gregory Littlejohn certainly has that "There's us and there's them" thing ingrained in his thinking. He struggled with eliminating anyone in the 'us' group and considers it a complement to offer a token of inclusion (a dirty rag) to the guy that was defeated by him.

Really enjoy the fast photography. Get to see the dynamics of a gun as it fires.

[Phantom Captain]

Kingofthehill said:
Watching top guns right now, that girl in glasses is just drop dead georgous! Julie golob I pretty darn cute too! What a great episode with these 2 beauties that can shoot.

That would be Maggie Reese from Season 2. Very much agree, she's quite a looker. Good shot too!

[HOOfan_1]

Top shot getting extra advertising from S&W? I'm not against the M&P but that's two elimination challenges its gotten, give some other striker-fired .40 a chance!


They've used Glocks several times.

The past two Top Guns have been 1 hour long Benelli and S&W commercials though


Now I want to see similar angles of other polymer framed guns for comparison.

I've seen it for Glocks...possibly on Top Shot...they do the same thing.

[JN01]

I believe it was one of R. Lee Ermys History Channel shows where they had had slo-mo footage of him shooting a Glock.

[mac66]

Ever think that maybe Greg is sandbagging in order to get into the elimination challenges to win some money? Pretty risky tactic but he seems to come through each time.

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Nope, I think Greg needs to be on another type of show. To be aptly named "The Pink Bandanna".

[mac66]

LOL, you may be right. On the other hand Greg seems to have developed a persona on the show that is getting noticed. He is featured in every episode so far and that means exposure and that means money for appearances and endorsements after the show ends. Maybe he is not as goofy as they make him seem.

[harqueb.us]

I didn't even realize Season 2 was out! I've got some catching up to do.

[HOOfan_1]

Ever think that maybe Greg is sandbagging in order to get into the elimination challenges to win some money? Pretty risky tactic but he seems to come through each time.

He nearly lost in the elimination challenge, so no

[HOOfan_1]

The Blue team may have literally dropped the ball, but the Red team did figuratively. Why in the world were they not using wadding in those pistols?

[Dr.Rob]

There's a question I'd like to ask, as the accuracy sans patch was better than I expected.

[Elkins45]

Wonder how those guns would have withstood being touched off when the ball had rolled HALFWAY down the barrel? I've never seen round balls fired without a patch in a front stuffer other than a revolver.

That seemed a little dangerous to me.

[snuffy]

What a bogus episode. Were the flinters smooth bore? If they were, then a slightly larger ball could have been rammed, and would have stayed put. Loading with a patch would have required more time, a short starter, and more training before hand. As always, details were missing that us shooters would like to hear. Instead of bickering and those oh so painful decisions on who goes to eliminations.

As for the elimination challenge, why couldn't the shooter walk straight ahead, just turn the upper body to shoot? The sideways shuffle is hardly a stable shooting position.

[Dentite]

As for the elimination challenge, why couldn't the shooter walk straight ahead, just turn the upper body to shoot? The sideways shuffle is hardly a stable shooting position.

I'm sure they could have...I guess it's a matter or what's more accurate/stable. Think about baskeball defense...you shuffle side to side to stay on balance. I'd probably do better shuffling side to side and keeping my shoulders square than walking down the line shooting with an unfamiliar "sideways" stance.

Pretty fun episode but watching the big guy with the muzzleloader was painful!

I wondered about the missing patch/loose ball as well...weird.

[nosmr2]

I think the blue team deserves some Bass Pro gift cards for not screaming at Greg while he was standing up there not shooting. That was PAINFUL to watch, but they showed great restraint. Wasn't a big fan of the rope swing over. Is this Top Shot or Top Pirate? Maybe Top Guns will redeem tonight. At least that annoying guy from last season isn't around.

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

As far as the unpatched question goes, I would have to imagine that was for reloading. Think about it, how many shots do you guys get from your front stuffers before you have to clean them to get the ball started? I know it's just a few with one of mine. Lot's of buildup from black powder and it builds up very quickly. Had they used slightly "oversized" balls or a patch the third person in line may well have not been able to load.

And as usual, girly man Greg fails again!! But his team failed as well. Had they had a "caller" like the red team did he would have discovered his half cock earlier. But still, yes those old flintlock pistols had very heavy triggers, they aren't so bad as to have to friggin strain like that to pull for Christ's sake! Greg just has to over dramatize EVERYTHING. I think he should just put his dress back on for the next challenge and be himself :D (And make sure he accessorizes with his pink bandanna)

[9mmepiphany]

Pretty fun episode but watching the big guy with the muzzleloader was painful!
That really was painful...almost as painful as watching Chee (RangeMaster) hit the platform 3 times as he tried to figure out the rope swing. Also notice that Gabby (Olympic shooter) almost didn't make it back the the first platform on he swing back...Kyle (LE Commander) had to catch her.

Terry (English guy) on the Red Team, had a funny blog about the incident. He said he wanted to swing over to the other platform and choke him out. He had the most doubts, going into the Flintlock training about his ability with the gun...he couldn't believe Greg didn't remember to fully cock it after priming the pan

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Terry (English guy) on the Red Team

You mean blue team :D

[9mmepiphany]

Oops, you're right...but his blog is still funny

[memphisjim]

Yeah the big guy has trouble you think he would be more competent with his job
I'm also suprised that they used the usp tactical instead of the newer hk45

[Kingofthehill]

I don't want to talk trash since who knows how any of us would do under not only competition pressure but the pressure of being on TV as well, but that blue team guy who stood there for 5 minutes like a lost child was just driving me insane!..

I like the new Top Guns show but this season of Top Shot provides no interest for me. I usually find someone within episode 1 or 2 that i want to see win... This season i can hardly watch or listen to everyone there.

Oh well, luckily Top Guns is really interesting so far. I hope they keep this show going.

JOe

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Oh and I was just going over this in my mind and remembered something. Anyone else spot a SERIOUS safety OOPS in that episode??? I'll give you a huge hint, it was after Greg lost his ball :D


OK since you thought about it, I'll tell you. Notice he didn't drop the hammer or dump the 4f out of the frizzen before he went to reload the ball!!!! :what: That would have been a HUGE WOOPS had that thing when off while tamping it!

[Elkins45]

Oh and I was just going over this in my mind and remembered something. Anyone else spot a SERIOUS safety OOPS in that episode??? I'll give you a huge hint, it was after Greg lost his ball :D


OK since you thought about it, I'll tell you. Notice he didn't drop the hammer or dump the 4f out of the frizzen before he went to reload the ball!!!! :what: That would have been a HUGE WOOPS had that thing when off while tamping it!
Yes, I was screaming at my wife "It's still cocked!" I guess I knew they wouldn't be showing it if he had blown the ramrod through his forehead, but watching him ram a cocked gun just made me cringe all over!

[al123]

Wow, poor Greg just froze. If the blue team lost everyone else would've just emptied the pistol on his target, then Greg would have the luxury of picking who he wanted to compete. Luckily the red team choked.

The elimination challenge was a little more interesting then the team one. It looked like if you didn't get your rhythm down while moving, you weren't going to hit much.

[HOOfan_1]

Notice in Top Guns they were using a patch...of course the tight fit there required them to use a starter tool and a more aggressive T shaped ram rod

[REL1203]

I was VERY bored with the flint lock part of last nights episode, but the elimination challenge was very exciting. I think this season, the Elimination challenges have been outstanding, and way more exciting than previous seasons so kudos to them for that. Greg still stinks and needs to get the boot.

[Trebor]

9mmE

You got a link to Terry's blog?

[REL1203]

http://www.tvempowers.com/blog/

[al123]

In Top Guns, the flintlock and Colt 1873 are iconic weapons, but I don't think the H&K 45 has that same status in history. Probably, there are other modern semiautos that have more of a historical significance (Glock 17?).

The poker competition was fun though; I thought Steve Gilcrest had the best chance to win, but Darryl P. pulled through.

[JN01]

The Top Shot/Top Guns references to the Kentucky Pistol were a mess.

The Kentucky Pistol is a specific style of American flintlock that really didn't reach a definitive point of development until the late 18th Century. They weren't around during the "golden age" of piracy and certainly were not introduced in 1610 (as indicated on Top Guns). Using the description "flintlock pistol" would have been more accurate.

On Top Guns, Colby said that the ignition could take 1-2 seconds. That is known as a hang fire. A properly tuned and loaded flintlock should go off almost instantaneously.

The "Kentucky Pistol" they were using was a crappy Italian kinda looks like one replica. An original would have a good quality (faster/more reliable) lock, would balance much differently (cheap replicas tend to have way too much thickness in the stocks) and certainly wouldn't have an eight pound trigger.

If you want to shoot accurately, you need to use a patch around the bullet. On the other hand, if they really wanted to use "pirate pistols" they should have been smooth bores, with no sights- even less accurate.

On another note, did anyone notice when they were discussing the historical use of the SAA on Top Guns, they showed people firing Remingtons and S&W breaktops?

[bubba15301]

you would think them being experts ,they would shoot better groups at 24 ft

[Dr.Rob]

I didn't see better accuracy in the patched ball vs. the loose ball.

The poker hand was pretty cool.

[Vector]

I have not read this thread because I have not even seen season 2 or 3. Is there some place to watch it on the net?

I just hope it is not full of drama because season one was pretty drama free, and I do not want the series to shift more toward a Survivor format(I cannot that show).

[HOOfan_1]

On another note, did anyone notice when they were discussing the historical use of the SAA on Top Guns, they showed people firing Remingtons and S&W breaktops?

Yes...several times....I think they even showed someone breaking open one of the S&Ws. They really need someone who knows gun to sit in the editing room

]I just hope it is not full of drama because season one was pretty drama free, and I do not want the series to shift more toward a Survivor format(I cannot that show).

Season 2 had a little drama....Season 3 was basically ruined by 1 guy who was trying to extend his 15 minutes a little too far.

Season 4 is more mild than Season 1 was so far.

[SharkHat]

I have not read this thread because I have not even seen season 2 or 3. Is there some place to watch it on the net?

I just hope it is not full of drama because season one was pretty drama free, and I do not want the series to shift more toward a Survivor format(I cannot that show).

Seasons 1 & 2 are both available on Netflix (Disc or streaming)

[Madcap_Magician]

Whenever I watch Greg, I think, nobody could have made it onto the show and still be that incompetent unless he was doing it on purpose.

Maybe he's trying to rack up $10k in Bass Pro Shops gift cards.

[Nugilum]

Remember, the producers needed someone for "the drama factor". I think they picked a beauty of a drama-king.

[CraigC]

The Top Shot/Top Guns references to the Kentucky Pistol were a mess.
I agree, they were all over the map with their terms and historical references.

I'm still trying to figure out why they didn't use patches.

As well as why everyone looked to be SOOOO uncomfortable shooting one-handed. Can't wait to see the episode with the atlatl.

Greg is a goofball and reminds me of the dork from high school (graduating 1992, do the math) who had 5000 "jumps" in Vietnam. At least he's funny to watch and not as annoying as past macho-types.

[HOOfan_1]

No easy way to pick 2 based on that challenge. Each shooter got closer to the target, as expected.

Despite what Tim thought, Chris didn't stop being a team player.....Tim did. He wanted it to be about vendetta, and that is what sunk him.

[al123]

The atlatl has good striking distance (60 yards). I'm might of seen something like this is some documentary, but I've never knew what it was called. As primitive weapon systems go, this was much more interesting than rocks :scrutiny: which they used in a previous season.

The drama made Tim look like he took things personally rather quickly. From Kyle's perspective (as presented by the show), this had to be settled immediately between he and Chris. I'm skeptical that things were anywhere near that bad.

Tim actually started out well in that challenge, but it seem he was getting flustered when Chris caught up with him. He looked like he was muscling his strikes. Chris really turned it up in the end, which is not bad for someone who has not professionally competed.

Chee has been picked twice to sit out the team challenges, but I have to wonder if I'm missing some information about his reputation on why the blue team is doing so. He has shot well, but he also screwed up when trying to swing across in the previous team challenge.

[rha600]

can someone please answer this for me. Since you all obviously watch the show.

I've watched every episode since #1 and I loved it. But last season I noticed a couple things that happened that made it seems fixed. I forget off the top of my head what they were...

so fast forward to last week's episode and the pirate swing from platform to platform. The first guy on the red team swings off and the rope seemed to drop about 5-8 feet. I admit, at first I thought, *** is this idiot doing? he was a marine? Then he does it again, and again, and again and agian. all the while his team was helping him pull the rope towards him and grabbing it up high. By the third time I was saying to myself, "this is BS and fixed".

So he finally makes it on the 5th try and does it EASY. really? like it's not obvious enough by now that they've fixed it since the blue team sucks so bad, it gets worse. When I think it was Iggy went to go, he swung a good 1/3 - 3/4 of the way across and all the sudden the rope dropped again causing him to swing right into the face of the other deck.

Come on! I mean don't insult our intelligence with this BS drama crap. If you need to handicap the better team, instead of doing this, why not make them send all 7 people to shoot so it theoretically will take them longer and thus giving the other team a better chance?

I've stopped watching it. I know it sounds stupid, but I just can't watch these BS shows, and I thought this one while of course needing some drama at least had some truth to it. But it seems it's no better than the Bachelor or Dancing with the Stars.

[nosmr2]

I'm not calling it fixed. I've never swung on a rope pirate style, but it looked a little odd to me. The amount of "give" or slack in the ropes didn't look the same to me. After the first time it was obvious that he needed to grab the rope higher and he did, but it didn't make a difference. Maybe someone needs to check it out on their DVR.

[rha600]

If anyone else has it recorded still, watch when Iggy does it as well. I think he was the 4th one to go. maybe 5th.

[al123]

IMO, this show is not meant for the knowledgeable firearms enthusiast. I have family members watching the show who do not know or care about the difference between an AR-15 and a Kentucky long rifle. These things just go bang.

They are impressed that there are reasonable people of all stripes that compete fairly and with class. Those dangerous bang-bangs don't seem so bad after all, in the right hands.

When the show gives the impression of an unfair competition, IMO, e.g. the Season 2 individual competitions, the ratings plummeted. My guess is that they made some improvements from that fiasco in later seasons. That's not to say they've stop the creative editing and setups to increase drama.

I find Top Guns more enjoyable, but my non-shooting friends/family think it's a snooze. Both shows, I use the fast forward a lot to skip to the parts I like.

[Madcap_Magician]

The rope thing wasn't fixed, the people who bolo'd it were just not paying attention to how you have to swing. It doesn't matter how much of a running start you give it if the point at which you grab the rope is too low for the swing of the rope to bring you up to the deck. It's actually better to only take a step and a jump and start with a higher grip, relying mostly on your own weight to swing you over.

[KodeFore]

I wonder if there if there is a way to email them suggestions for the show?

[nosmr2]

You can tweet Colby. Not sure how much input he has though.

[9mmepiphany]

so fast forward to last week's episode and the pirate swing from platform to platform. The first guy on the red team swings off and the rope seemed to drop about 5-8 feet. I admit, at first I thought, *** is this idiot doing? he was a marine? Then he does it again, and again, and again and agian. all the while his team was helping him pull the rope towards him and grabbing it up high. By the third time I was saying to myself, "this is BS and fixed".
It is an optical illusion that the rope is dropping. As the rope reaches the bottom of it's arc, it will always appear longer than at any other point in the swing.

I've watch the portion you've ask about several times...you don't need to DVD it, it is on History.com...and the mistake that Chee made repeatedly was trying to take a longer run before the leap. Stepping back...to get space for the run...lengthens your arc and causes you to grab the rope lower.

That is why Gabby was able to just step off and cleanly swing to the other side...she started her swing at the same distance, up the rope, from the bottom of the arc as the edge of the other platform.

I agree that Tim became the Greg of the Red Team, which sunk him when he tried to muscle the Atlatl. That was the problem that Chris had at the beginning (too tight), until he remembered to go to his Happy Place...the penguin in the ice cave

[rha600]

The rope thing seemed like it dropped at a certain point and instantly. not just the arch. If you could, watch Iggy do it. he is most of the way through the swing and all the sudden BAM it drops about 5+ feet. instantly not in an arch or anything.

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Iggy's hands slipped. I slowmod it. You can plainly see where he didn't have enough grip to keep his fat rear up there. Not to mention he started way to long on the rope in the first place. Same with that Chee guy. For a former Marine, he sure didn't retain that simple rope swing in his memory from boot camp.

[rha600]

cool, thanks!

[nosmr2]

Mystery solved

[snuffy]

I'm not calling it fixed. I've never swung on a rope pirate style, but it looked a little odd to me. The amount of "give" or slack in the ropes didn't look the same to me. After the first time it was obvious that he needed to grab the rope higher and he did, but it didn't make a difference. Maybe someone needs to check it out on their DVR.

The ropes were hung from a cable strung between two towers. There would have to be some give to the set-up the way it was. The way I saw it after slow-mo on the DVR, was that Chee jumped off the platform, hitting the bottom of the swing with a lot of force. He needed to simply step off the platform, letting his momentum carry him across the gap. Iggy did slip or loosen his grip.

The top gun episode that followed the top shot used the same flintlock pistol, but this time the "expurt" used patch&ball. Like it should have been during the competition. It would have slowed the competition down but would have been much safer. That loose ball could have blown that pistol if it had been fired half way down the barrel.

Being a shooting enthusiast, I find the show lacking in technical detail. Some things need to be explained to john-Q-public, the uninformed might think that's the way to load ALL muzzle loading pistols.

Just like the show last tuseday, was that black powder in "the bag", or was it smokeless? Anyway, it was real cool to see that huge conical aluminum shell with the rifling showing so clearly, in slo-mo.

[Madcap_Magician]

The atlatl was very cool. After Tim looked like he turned into a drama queen for no reason, I was glad to see Chris perform so well.

[Vector]

The atlatl was very cool. After Tim looked like he turned into a drama queen for no reason, I was glad to see Chris perform so well.
I am not trying to defend Tim, but I can say that bigger guys who are not use to putting up with mouthy twerps get annoyed when they run their mouth and other people down. Now you might say everyone does, but by and large mouthy twerps do not say things one on one to guys much larger than they are. So either big guys are more inclined to physically handle the situation, or they are not use to people running their mouths. Either way, that could have had an effect on why he reacted like he did.

[9mmepiphany]

I can say that bigger guys who are not use to putting up with mouthy twerps get annoyed when they run their mouth and other people down. Now you might say everyone does, but by and large mouthy twerps do not say things one on one to guys much larger than they are. So either big guys are more inclined to physically handle the situation, or they are not use to people running their mouths.
I would say this is true. Tim is used to smaller men deferring to his size and perceived skills (in his own arena) and isn't used to being reasoned with through facts and evaluation. As pointed out during the show, Tim likely takes in facts through perception rather than thinking...he is ruled by his emotions. He isn't used to a smaller man who is as sure of himself as Chris while still being humble...and is threatened by the unusual situation. Kyle recognized that it was a situation that needed to be addressed or the mood would only ferment.

Tim was used to addressing issues and overcoming them with muscle power. This lead to his undoing in the Elimination as it was a test of skill and the ability to remain calm

[jim243]

I still do not see a sure winner or even a hint of who will be the last three.

Jim

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

To me, Tim just flat out goofed up and underestimated a much smaller opponent. And I have to disagree with the statement I am not trying to defend Tim, but I can say that bigger guys who are not use to putting up with mouthy twerps get annoyed when they run their mouth and other people down As I am a pretty big guy and have found that smaller guys have a tendency to run their mouths quite a bit more in controlled environments such as on a TV show. They know they can get away with it. Now granted, when I stand up and am obviously irritated, they do tend to hush up when they see my leg outweighs their entire body weight :D

Chris said nothing wrong in that meeting. I mean really, all he did was point out where some had not performed well in PAST challenges because they all did very well in that cannon one. Tim took offense because he didn't point out where he had messed up. Problem was, Chris HADN'T messed up in ANY challenge so far. His performance has been near flawless. Tim showed extremely poor form in how he handled himself.

[9mmepiphany]

Problem was, Chris HADN'T messed up in ANY challenge so far. His performance has been near flawless. Tim showed extremely poor form in how he handled himself.
This is also true. Chris' worst event was the falling plate rack, where he kept missing the last plate and had to start over...I think it was 3 or 4 times. But it is also the event where he snatch victory for the Red Team with his last shot.

The thing about Chris is that he doesn't have the training credentials of the other members, but it also seems that they have more respect for his skills than members had for Jay Lim in season 2. It will be interesting to see the Blue Teams reaction to him when he walks in the door at the beginning of the next episode

[Dr.Rob]

I need to watch it again because I thought Chris shouldn't have been there at all.

The Top Guns follow-up episode was't as interesting as some of the previous ones but it looks like they had fun.

[al123]

While primitive weapons are interesting, for me firearms are just more fun. :D It looked like a fun competition though.

For me, the best Top Guns episodes combined great firearms with some good informal competition. The carbine/M14/mosin episode followed by the one with automatic rifles e.g. BAR were the most enjoyable.

In the shotguns and pistols episodes, the guests didn't directly compete so it wasn't quite as fun.

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

The thing about Chris is that he doesn't have the training credentials of the other members, but it also seems that they have more respect for his skills than members had for Jay Lim in season 2

Thats because Jay was a cocky little butthead with a "I know it all and you don't know squat" attitude. Jay had all those credentials but to me, his performance was sub par. Especially under pressure.

I need to watch it again because I thought Chris shouldn't have been there at all.

Deserve, no he surely did not. Am I glad he went? Yes sir I most certainly am. Glad he went and educated Tim over his poor attitude. Not sure if anyone else on that team could have handled that elimination challenge as well as he did. He started off a bit shaky but when it counted, he got it done in a BIG way.

[boscoru]

This episode was just a one-hour advertisement for cannons and atlatls. Way to sell out, Top Shot :rolleyes:

[Madcap_Magician]

This episode was just a one-hour advertisement for cannons and atlatls. Way to sell out, Top Shot

Heh, I saw what you did there. :D

[HOOfan_1]

I am not trying to defend Tim, but I can say that bigger guys who are not use to putting up with mouthy twerps get annoyed when they run their mouth and other people down. Now you might say everyone does, but by and large mouthy twerps do not say things one on one to guys much larger than they are. So either big guys are more inclined to physically handle the situation, or they are not use to people running their mouths. Either way, that could have had an effect on why he reacted like he did.

Has nothing to do with being a "big guy" has everything to do with Tim having an ego problem and not enough maturity to handle the situation correctly. Being a big guy might contribute to his ego problems, but there are plenty of "big guys" who could easily have handled that situation better.

From the eidited clips shown on TV, there is no indication that Chris is a mouthy twerp. No one else seemed to have a problem with anything Chris said. Seems to me that several of the others, most notably Kyle, seemed to have a problem with the way Tim was handling the situation, thus they sent him to elimination even after Chee volunteered.

[nosmr2]

I was a fan of Tim's, but he really threw me off on Tuesday. Chris, who I don't really like, has shot well this season. He pointed out what the others did bad and what he did good and a little bad. It is what it is, he has shot well. Tim got all butt-hurt because he didn't point out his flaws or something like that. I think Tim didn't like Chris holding court and it was an alpha-male showdown that Tim could have avoided and still be in the running for $100,000. That's enough money for a house where I live. But whatever, Tim got what he wanted and ended up leaving when it was all said and done.

More Greg please.....

[snuffy]

While primitive weapons are interesting, for me firearms are just more fun. It looked like a fun competition though.

For me, the best Top Guns episodes combined great firearms with some good informal competition. The carbine/M14/mosin episode followed by the one with automatic rifles e.g. BAR were the most enjoyable.

The last 4-5 posts are mostly about soap opera. Or the interaction between the contestants. I understand we wouldn't have a show like this without the drama for the unwashed masses. But I'm sure NOT going to get all wound up in it.

Cut that touchy feely crap out, have more info about guns, I'd like it much better.

[GCBurner]

Now that they've done an atlatl, I wonder if they'll bring out the boomerangs or bolas?

[gathert]

Next week is trick shooting, so I hope they don't go back to human powered devices. I personally would like to see another sniper type shot, but with a little more to do than just one shot like they did when it was 400 yards and whoever could shoot it the fastest. Engaging several targets align with movers would be great.

[Vector]

I just thought of a question to ask you Top Shot fans.

What type of earplugs are many of the shooters wearing that look colorful, and are presumably custom fitted?

Does anyone know how expensive they are, and what the protective DB ratings are?

[gathert]

I have a pair and they usually run $30-40 at shooting competitions if you can find a vendor. I really like mine. They are super easy to put in and take out and block the noise plenty fine for my liking. They aren't quite as good as foam plugs, but just barely. Don't do the do it yourself kit if you find one of those in an outdoor retail place, the plugs won't turn out as well.

[heavydluxe]

I personally would like to see another sniper type shot, but with a little more to do than just one shot like they did when it was 400 yards and whoever could shoot it the fastest. Engaging several targets align with movers would be great.
From the opening credits, it looks like you'll get your wish - along with a guest sniper expert from a previous season...

Just started watching this season a couple days ago. We don't have cable, so I wait for the season to get rolling a little before downloading via iTunes. So far, I've really enjoyed all the episodes and challenges. I also really appreciate the contestants this year. With the exception of Littlejohn, they seem close to the level-headed camaraderie of Season 1.

[gathert]

I don't pay attention to the opening bits so I'll have to look for it next time. The show uses so many shots during the episode from guns they aren't shooting it bugs me so I usually record it and watch later, fast forwarding through the boring stuff.

[Arkansas Paul]

I usually record it and watch later, fast forwarding through the boring stuff.


Me too. I go past most of the drama and to the shooting.

[Dr.Rob]

Yay red team! That challenge din't look EASY to me. The pop -up paint cans? Before Dylan stepped up, Greg was sending himself. How I WISH that was Greg vs. William instead of Dylan vs. William.

I wanted Gabby to smoke that stage, but the red team proved exactly what they said. Can't beat 'em at basket ball-but all in all better shooters.

[mgmorden]

I wanted Gabby to smoke that stage, but the red team proved exactly what they said. Can't beat 'em at basket ball-but all in all better shooters.

Indeed. Gabby is at this point my favorite shooter.

One thing I was curious about though - on that challenge she was gripping the stock with her support hand way, way back. Just ahead of the trigger guard. This struck me as strange as I personally grip a rifle offhand much farther forward as that seems more stable.

Was this just a result of her smaller size, less experience with rifles, or is that actually a better grip in some way?

[Dr.Rob]

That's a target shooting style she's using her elbow on her hip as support. Look at the whole stance not just her hand.

[browneu]

Jay from season two used the same stance. Its better for target or bullseye shooting, not so much for shooting with movement.

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk

[9mmepiphany]

This struck me as strange as I personally grip a rifle offhand much farther forward as that seems more stable.

Was this just a result of her smaller size, less experience with rifles, or is that actually a better grip in some way?
It isn't just a forward grip, it is a complete position. We used to shoot using that body position during my years shooting Small Bore in high school. If you look, that is how Olympic shooter stand

1. put your forward hand under the balance point of the rifle
2. put that elbow in-line with your hip
3. lean back, at the waist, until your sights are in-line with your eye
4. tuck support elbow down into a relaxed position

This gave her a large advantage over the more traditional Rifleman's stance than Will was using...with the left arm forward and the right elbow winged out...when coping with the wind.

Most Americans shoot like you do and would ask the same questions about strength or stature. It is part of the culture of muscling a gun (knives, tools) for more control, this shooting style is based more on using the structure of your body to help you.

[gathert]

Used the same position in ROTC air rifle comps in high school. Its a lot more stable that it looks.

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Gabby shot in the Olympics. That is a very stable hold for bulls-eye. All you 10-22 shooters should give it a try. It utilizes your whole body for a stable platform verses just your upper body like the way Will tried.

I don't know if it was just camera position or what, but it seemed to me that Gabby was at a slight disadvantage with her height. Looked like she only had a small part of the target visible because she is so "vertically challenged". If you go back and look at the "behind the shooter" shots when she was up, you will see what I mean. The bottles looked to be right at the same height as her eyes. I'll see if I can freeze and screen shoot in the spot that I am talking about and post.

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Well I went through the hassle of screen shooting it BUT, I can't load it on here because photobucket wont store .rtf format. I don't have a converter that works. Anyone here know how to convert a file from .rtf to .jpg/jpeg? Buzz me in PM with your email and I'll send the document.

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Thankyou to mgmorden for converting this.


http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/cam69conv/gabby.jpg

As you can see, she seems WAY below the target plane. Kind of a little unfair in my point of view.

[gathert]

The camera is looking a slight downward angle so that makes it look worse. I'm guess they could only see about 2 inches of the bottle opener vertically anyway, if that.

[9mmepiphany]

Looks like camera angle to me too

[Tom K]

The elimination shootoff between Dylan and William proved the old adage, “You can’t miss fast enough to win.” There were ten bowling pins, each in two pieces for a total of 20 targets. They had two minutes to shoot – 120 seconds. That averages out to six seconds per shot, not counting any time for reloading or changing guns. Knocking off 20 seconds for reloading and changing guns still leaves 100 seconds, or five seconds per shot.

Dylan was popping off rounds far too fast – if he had just taken his time and aimed he could’ve done much better. I don’t know how many pre-loaded magazines they get but I was amazed to see that he had gotten to the point of having to reload the Browning .22 mags with loose rounds. William kept his cool and “took his time in a hurry.”

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

I switched the pic up for a bigger view (Thanks again mdmorden) I don't think it's as much the camera angle as she is one short little puppy. Notice the rifle barrel angle and you will see what I mean. From HER position, id have to say she could only see half the target above the bottle bottom.

[9mmepiphany]

The bigger picture is much better.

You can tell it is camera angle, because the ground looks like it slopes upward from the shooter to the target...it didn't.

Also, if you look at how she missed. Her bullet strikes on the backboard aren't above the bottle opener. They are beside it...lateral displacement...and about halfway up the handle

[Seattleimport]

As with Survivor, when watching Top Shot I'm always struck by the notion that a lot of folks would pay a lot of money to attend some kind of weekend (or weeklong) camp that mimicked the show.

You pay a certain amount of $ in exchange for food, lodging, and participation. You get to be part of a team, engage in fun competitions using both exotic and familiar weapons, and the winner gets a big prize (say, 10% of each entrant's fee goes to a prize pool). Film the whole thing and send DVDs to the participants.

To pull it off you'd have to charge... oh, $5k per participant with 20 participants per "show". And hold multiple shows over the year (and multiple years) so you could amortize capital investments like guns, land, props, etc. You could lower that entrant fee via sponsors, or even partnerships for broadcast or webcast (Amateur Top Shot).

[allaroundhunter]

From the opening credits, it looks like you'll get your wish - along with a guest sniper expert from a previous season...

Just started watching this season a couple days ago. We don't have cable, so I wait for the season to get rolling a little before downloading via iTunes. So far, I've really enjoyed all the episodes and challenges. I also really appreciate the contestants this year. With the exception of Littlejohn, they seem close to the level-headed camaraderie of Season 1.

It is also on historychannel.com and Hulu.com

[mac66]

"As with Survivor, when watching Top Shot I'm always struck by the notion that a lot of folks would pay a lot of money to attend some kind of weekend (or weeklong) camp that mimicked the show.

You pay a certain amount of $ in exchange for food, lodging, and participation. You get to be part of a team, engage in fun competitions using both exotic and familiar weapons, and the winner gets a big prize (say, 10% of each entrant's fee goes to a prize pool). Film the whole thing and send DVDs to the participants.

To pull it off you'd have to charge... oh, $5k per participant with 20 participants per "show". And hold multiple shows over the year (and multiple years) so you could amortize capital investments like guns, land, props, etc. You could lower that entrant fee via sponsors, or even partnerships for broadcast or webcast (Amateur Top Shot)."


That is probably a good idea but other than the gimmicky courses of fire, most shooting competitions are already like.

[Ryanxia]

The paint can shot seemed pretty hard, and maybe it was just me but it looked like the blue team paint cans didn't go as high in the air as the red team.
I could see being able to make that shot with a 9mm or .40 but with a .45 at that distance I know I'm not good enough to do that. :D

[9mmepiphany]

How high the upper can would fly would be determined by how centered your hit was on the lower can...to transmit force to the upper can evenly

[theautobahn]

How high the upper can would fly would be determined by how centered your hit was on the lower can...to transmit force to the upper can evenly

Do you mean centered laterally or horizontally? I'm no physics genius (or any other kind of genius, really), but I would think hitting the bottom can lower on the horizontal axis would transmit more force upward (or perhaps it wouldn't matter where on the vertical plane as you'd still be displacing the same volume of water)???

[gathert]

I was wondering how they pulled that one off so well when it got hit each time. I don't remember, but the top of the bottom can might have been left off, allowing the water to push upwards without any resistance, launching and empty top can upwards easily.

[9mmepiphany]

Do you mean centered laterally or horizontally? I'm no physics genius (or any other kind of genius, really), but I would think hitting the bottom can lower on the horizontal axis would transmit more force upward (or perhaps it wouldn't matter where on the vertical plane as you'd still be displacing the same volume of water)???
Both

I would think that if you hit the bottom can too low, that two bad things could happen:
1. You'd hit low and hit the wood
2. You'd displace the can off the vertical and you wouldn't get the full push upward...it isn't as if the bottom can was anchored to the bench

...plus there was the bullseye on the lower can, I'm thinking that was a hint for the shooters...sort of like the best compromise for launching a projectile the furthest is at a 45 degree angle


I was wondering how they pulled that one off so well when it got hit each time.
They used a new bottom can each time

[gathert]

I meant how they got the can to launch based on water pressure alone. I knew they used a new can each time. That would be silly not to.

[9mmepiphany]

Ah...Don't know for sure.

You'll notice that it wasn't consistent, that leads me to believe it was based on the bullet strike and the hydrostatic pressure imparted to the water in the can. You wouldn't leave the whole top off...not enough pressure...you'd need to concentrate the hydraulic pressure into a stream to launch the top can

[theautobahn]

Again, not a physics expert, but...

I would imagine that you would leave the top off the bottom can and fill it completely full of water (to the tip-top). Stack the top (empty) can on the bottom, they'll usually "nest" together, creating a slight seal (not 9mm's hydrostatic pressure theory). When the bullet impacts the bottom can, one of two things is going to created the hydrostatic pressure needed to eject the top can. Either the bullet striking the paint can will cause the outside of the can to compress, creating pressure, or the bullet going through the water will create the pressure (I would think it would be more impressive using hollow points). Think of the temporary wound channel created when a bullet passes through a body (or gelatin).

I'm thinking I'm going to try to replicate this at some point this summer (maybe not shooting the second can, but at least figuring out the best way to launch it).

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

It would probably be best to seal the bottom can completely off. Not extremely tight, but just bump the lid in. That would launch a top can VERY well.

[gathert]

Now somebody has to go try it. I know the guys that make the show probably went over all aspects of the challenges to make sure they work every time.

[Arkansas Paul]

Now somebody has to go try it.


I volunteer for that. I'll let you know how it goes. :)

[gathert]

If my neighbors didn't mind I would have done it already. Pesky neighbors...

[leftyz]

The top lid of the bottom can was gone.

[9mmepiphany]

Had someone from the crew on the show post on another forum.

There is no lid on the lower can. When they were setting up the shot (pre-production) they found that hitting a bit further down (a little below center) gave the highest launch without kicking the can off center

[Elkins45]

Was anyone else surprised when a Colby held up a Webley? When I heard him say "the Rolls Royce of revolvers" I looked at my wife and said "hey, it's gonna be a Colt Python!" Boy was I wrong. I'm not sure how a revolver with a DA trigger so hard that Gabby can't pull it deserves that title, nor do I consider it to be the finest combat revolver (or whatever exact title Colby gave it) either.

This show is proving to be a good demonstration of that old adage "a slow hit is better than a fast miss."

[35Rem]

Rolls Royce must equal imported, overpriced junk.

[Kaeto]

I think Gabby just has an exceedingly weak grip. My Webley Mk VI has an easier double action trigger than my PA-63. I would like to beat the person who had that one Webley nickeled though.

I noticed neither of the guys who went through the elimination challenge used the technique to speed shoot the Enfield.


Rem35: If you have never fired a Webley do not call it junk. I am fed up with know-it-alls who put down guns they have never touched.

[gathert]

The Webley is a great revolver, and its has its place in evolution of guns. While the nickel plated one looked good it made me cringe a little.

[Dr.Rob]

Well at least Terry wasn't subjected to the dirty handkerchief of friendship. And yet again the worst 2 shooters didn't go to elimination.