CCW class - scarey!!!


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TarDevil
February 15, 2012, 04:22 PM
Class went OK... then went to the range. Guy with a Glock 17 and .32 revolver tried to buy .32 auto cartridges for his revolver... and the gal behind the desk was clueless and tried to sell them to him. I politely suggested he save his money.

Dude and his wife were in the class... she with a .380 he with some Beretta knock-off. Mr. Dude starts waving the .380 around showing to everyone in the store, wife says, "Think there's one in the chamber." Range owner takes the gun from him and ejects a live round. Mr Dude keeps asking to see everyone's gun, still totally oblivious about where he pointed the barrels. I moved behind his wife, told her, "He'll have to go through you to hit me!"

During the shoot, Mr. Dude is tack driver with his knock-off nine, wife is all over the target, other guy's Glock jammed every other drill (I'm just saying....).

Perfect scores for me all around. Not sure the world is a safer place, though.

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Ledgehammer
February 15, 2012, 04:35 PM
I think you meant oblivious not ambivalent. Dude was prolly limp wristing the glock. Just saying...

TarDevil
February 15, 2012, 05:33 PM
I think you meant oblivious not ambivalent. Dude was prolly limp wristing the glock. Just saying...

Yer right. Only took me 8 years to get my English undergraduate degree... guess it shows!!

Prolly right about limp wristing... he came away with a bloody thumb after the first drill!

SteampunkQueen
February 15, 2012, 08:15 PM
When i took my permit course the first time, the teacher was claiming that a cup and saucer grip was the best way to control recoil with a semi auto. His words, not mine.

About 5 months ago, while on the range where i was living, a guy and his son showed up. Father was loading a rifle, and the kid, who was probably 15 or so, was handling a Glock. His father tells him to put the gun down, to which he says "I KNOW Its unloaded, look" and proceeds to pull the trigger, while aiming the gun down the range line. He hit a post about a foot from my HEAD. After i FLIPPED MY <deleted> on this kid he says "Chill out bitch, it was an accident". Needless to say, he and his father were banned for life from the range.

Gator 23
February 16, 2012, 11:32 PM
SteampunkQueen - I'm hearing you! Reminds me of various public range knuckle heads that I've run into out there across various states. Reckless muzzle sweeps across the shooting line, handling weapons during "cold range", and calling "hot range" when people are still tending to targets downrange - ticks me off like nothing else when range time is normally a source of relaxation and fun.

Just took a CHL (CCW) class last weekend myself. Four students at a time during the range qual. Oh my, one lady's pistol jammed every 5 rounds and her shots were sprayed all over the place. A younger male just next to her was just about equally high and low all over the silhouette target - bewildering as to why they felt ready to pursue a concealed carry permit. Great that they are out shooting...but maybe they should just rely on pepper spray for now and take a handgun training course in the mean time?

Ala Dan
February 16, 2012, 11:37 PM
Some persons just don't pay attention to detail; sounds like husband and wife
were on the "jittery side"; and a "brain fart" wasn't too far away~! :uhoh: :scrutiny:

armoredman
February 17, 2012, 12:19 AM
Steampunk Queen, I think I would have called the PD and made a criminal complaint against the little snot! He's lucky you didn't return fire.

maskedman504
February 17, 2012, 12:53 AM
Although I was already semi-proficient with firearms, I had to take the CCW course for my license. After the 3-4 hour verbal part of the course, my instructor told us (my brother and I) he needed to witness us fire a pistol; he gave us a .22 cal semi auto and told use to fire 2 rounds into the ground and that would be sufficient. He then tried to take us to a local sports bar for lunch and beers. We thought he was kind of bizarro and declined; nice enough guy though, I guess.

Dirty Bob
February 17, 2012, 01:10 AM
Concealed carry license classes are also a demonstration of how $$ does not buy skill. I had a husband and wife next to me last time on the range test -- both with brand-new pistols: a Springfield XD or XDm for him and a S&W M&P for her. Nice guns, but they had probably taken them out of the boxes that morning!

She was on my left, so I had to keep looking over my shoulder to make sure she was pointing the pistol downrange.

I did fine with steel-cased 9x18mm out of a Makarov PM. I had a nice little group in the center of the silhouette at the end of the test, while the woman with the S&W put several holes in the bottom part of my target!

They both would have been better off with used Glock 17s or 19s and with the extra $$ spent on some instruction before the CHL class. Oh, well.

All my best,
Dirty Bob

Dr_B
February 17, 2012, 01:23 AM
Those are some scary experiences for CCW classes. For mine, we had an info day where we learned our way around single-action and double-action revolvers, semi-autos, rifles, learned how to clean them, and learned the safety rules. The next day was a range day. We shot 1911's with .22 conversion kits and .22 revolvers. Then we got individual training with the guns we'd chosen as our carry guns.

Carter
February 17, 2012, 01:32 AM
As far as accuracy and CCW classes has it ever occurred to you that some people get the CCW to get around the pistol permit process in some places and are using it as way to get a pistol and learn how to shoot? Its what I did. Sheriff wouldn't give me a pistol permit so I got my CCW which he couldn't deny me. I wasn't spraying all over the place, but I was no where near where I am today.

As far as the safety issues. Yeah thats inexcusable.

kb58
February 17, 2012, 01:58 AM
See... it's stuff just like this that is why I'll never take my wife to an indoor range. She's already very iffy on guns to start with, and having some halfway out of control nut next to her will ruin things for me. I'm a member of a private range and make sure if and when I take her, it's when not many "shooters" are around.

M2 Carbine
February 17, 2012, 02:11 AM
The most recent new shooter (senior lady) I taught to shoot took the Texas concealed carry course last month. She got a perfect score beating 8 men and one woman. She used a Taurus PT99.

The TX qualification course is so easy that I passed it (for practice) with my eyes closed.

IMO anyone that can't demonstrate reasonable skill and knowledge with their gun should not be given a license to carry a gun.

PabloJ
February 17, 2012, 02:14 AM
Class went OK... then went to the range. Guy with a Glock 17 and .32 revolver tried to buy .32 auto cartridges for his revolver... and the gal behind the desk was clueless and tried to sell them to him. I politely suggested he save his money.

Dude and his wife were in the class... she with a .380 he with some Beretta knock-off. Mr. Dude starts waving the .380 around showing to everyone in the store, wife says, "Think there's one in the chamber." Range owner takes the gun from him and ejects a live round. Mr Dude keeps asking to see everyone's gun, still totally oblivious about where he pointed the barrels. I moved behind his wife, told her, "He'll have to go through you to hit me!"

During the shoot, Mr. Dude is tack driver with his knock-off nine, wife is all over the target, other guy's Glock jammed every other drill (I'm just saying....).

Perfect scores for me all around. Not sure the world is a safer place, though.
ttt

Bozwell
February 17, 2012, 11:16 AM
Just wanted to share a funny story about the last time I was at an indoor range. I was waiting for a lane and saw a guy rent a Kimber 1911, pickup a box of ammo and the CCW qualification target. The attendant explained to him that to qualify here in NC you just need to be able to put 40 out of 50 shots in a large center of mass area on a silhouette target at a distance of 7 yards. About 15 minutes later he comes back with a target that has 25 shots center of mass and 25 shots in the head (outside of the qualifying area). The attendant looks at it and asks what is this, to which the guy replies he got tired of shooting center of mass and so he switched to headshots. It took a while for him to understand how he failed the qualification.

TarDevil
February 17, 2012, 11:50 AM
ttt

???

cor_man257
February 17, 2012, 12:07 PM
I think it means "to the top"

Its similar to QFT. Quoted for Truth. Used to point something out and say "hey I agree" like +1. Buy sell trades usually use it to bump a topic to the top.

smokey30725
February 17, 2012, 12:09 PM
I qualified next to an elderly lady who must have had her late husband's model 19 smith. Not a pleasant experience for either one of us. However, she did manage to keep them all on the paper.

2wheels
February 17, 2012, 12:11 PM
Hearing all these stories makes me thankful VA allowed me to get by with an online course. Half the cost, and didn't have to risk getting shot or deal with idiot instructors.

TarDevil
February 17, 2012, 12:14 PM
I think it means "to the top"

Its similar to QFT. Quoted for Truth. Used to point something out and say "hey I agree" like +1. Buy sell trades usually use it to bump a topic to the top.
Thanks!

Loosedhorse
February 17, 2012, 12:21 PM
Range owner takes the gun from him and ejects a live round.This is on the range owner, too. If someone is sweeping people with his muzzle (gun "unloaded" or not), he would leave my premises that day, right then. If comes back tomorrow, fine--but he starts sweeping people again, it's a life-time ban.Needless to say, he and his father were banned for life from the range. Now, THAT's the way to do it.During the shoot, Mr. Dude is tack driver with his knock-off nine, wife is all over the target, other guy's Glock jammed every other drill (I'm just saying....).I hope you understand that such a scene is the very essence of the Second Amendment. Ordinary citizens learning to shoot. I hope you don't simply "tolerate" such a scene--it is something to be loved and cherished.

Part of that RKBA is the responsibility (on all of us) to keep ourselves and our fellow shooters safe, and to try to help everyone become a better and safer shooter. Even if it means banning some of them for life.

SteampunkQueen
February 17, 2012, 03:33 PM
From what i understand, the father and son that were at the range that day, were banned from other ranges in the area as well.

jonnyc
February 17, 2012, 07:49 PM
I'd be curious how the father responded to his ill-bred son.
My father would have turned me into a statistic.

C5rider
February 18, 2012, 12:09 AM
During a CCW class I attended recently, we were all congregating before the class in a public area, getting ready to head into the "classroom", which was a restaurant. One of the students started talking about what each of us would carry. One guy reaches into his pants pocket and says, "This!". :what:

I couldn't believe it! I had two responses, first, to put that thing away! Secondly, to sit far away from him. i just couldn't imagine flashing it around the way he was, especially where we were, with being that close to getting a permit but not having one yet. It just seemed very irresponsible to me.

Then, when we went into the area for shooting to show our "prowess" with a firearm, the guy wheels it out again and says, "This!". :what: :eek: :what:

The guys in charge didn't seem phased with this. I don't think it was the first time they'd seen that.

I'm not a gun-prude but I do try to think safety and legality. This just didn't seem to have either. i never asked, and didn't want to find out, whether the gun was loaded.

Dirty Bob
February 18, 2012, 12:53 AM
On the other hand, my private club recently ran a CHL class, with an NRA Basic Pistol class taught as part of the LOOOONG day. Newer shooters therefore had a bit of instruction and some practice before facing the CHL test.

I wish that CHL instructors could get people to come for a two-day: first day for a general intro and instruction, followed by the meat-and-potatoes of the CHL course on the second day.

I agree with M2: the Texas test IS easy. I'm not a great pistol shot, but I've aced the shooting test both times I've taken it, and I used the same $199 Makarov both times. Both times, mine was the least expensive pistol at the range. I think it would be possible to pass it with a Kel-Tec P-32! ;)

All my best,
Dirty Bob

TarDevil
February 18, 2012, 10:15 AM
This is on the range owner, too. If someone is sweeping people with his muzzle (gun "unloaded" or not), he would leave my premises that day, right then.
The only people in the lobby that evening were from our CCW class. My intuitive guess is the range owner thought it was on the CCW instructor, the CCW instructor may have thought it was on the range owner. I dunno... just guessing, but surprised that those bad practices continued. I was too busy trying to stay out of his line of fire. I had hoped my comment about going through his wife first would get his attention, but whatever...

I hope you don't simply "tolerate" such a scene--it is something to be loved and cherished.

Most assuredly! What the range time said to me is... one guy could shoot the lights out but was careless with his gun. His wife perhaps needed a better choice in gun (or more practice), but was very safety conscious. Guy with the Glock and revolver was a terrific guy who asked a lot of questions and will be a responsible gun owner/user. My comments about his gun jamming was a good natured jab at the Glock frenzies here. No offense meant.

AFDavis11
February 18, 2012, 11:52 AM
Wait, go back to the Glock jamming . . . Now that is crazy.

Roverboy
February 18, 2012, 03:50 PM
I took a Massad Ayoob Mag-20 range course and there was NO screwing around. Period! You kept the gun pointed down range at all times or you were out, no second chance.

Chiral
February 18, 2012, 10:12 PM
Took a CHL class last week and while in the classroom before the shooting test a bunch of yahoos were manipulating the actions on their weapons WITH LOADED MAGAZINES. One of the ejected rounds sailed past me. Why the (*#(@! are you playing with a loaded weapon in a classroom full of people?! I moved shortly after.

Also while shooting, this elderly gentleman next to me was firing his 1911. God bless him, but his hands were shaking so bad, he sprayed my target 4 or 5 times. The range officer had to swing by to make sure he didn't sweep the line :(

I am so glad I made it out of the class unscathed. SCARY!

kb58
February 18, 2012, 10:41 PM
It's these sorts of threads that I specifically do NOT mention to my wife. Getting her to become comfortable with guns is hard enough, and telling her to consider everyone else at the line as a potential "shooter" is the last thing I want getting in her head. Not only would it make her scared to every go again, but she'd not want me to go either. At this point, she still thinks that the range is sort of a lala-land Disneylandwhere nothing terrible happens (okay, a bit of an exaguration) and that's fine for now.

(And yes, I realize problems such those above are rare - but it only takes once...)

sawman1293
February 18, 2012, 11:47 PM
check this out...http://www.wyff4.com/news/30491738/detail.html

M2 Carbine
February 19, 2012, 12:59 AM
Both times, mine was the least expensive pistol at the range. I think it would be possible to pass it with a Kel-Tec P-32!
I taught my friend's three boys to shoot when they were so young they couldn't pull the slide on a semi auto. I taught them with a Beretta 21A so they could load the gun using the tip up barrel.
When they were 8 or 9 they could shoot about 235-40 on the CHL test (by the book) with the little Beretta.:)

Actually I loaned my friend and his wife a Makarov to take their CHL first time.
I taught the lady to shoot the Makarov and she beat everyone shooting that day, except her husband, who shot 250.

The lady INSISTED that I sell her that Makarov, which I did.:D

rhinoh
February 19, 2012, 10:15 AM
As far as accuracy and CCW classes has it ever occurred to you that some people get the CCW to get around the pistol permit process in some places and are using it as way to get a pistol and learn how to shoot? Its what I did. Sheriff wouldn't give me a pistol permit so I got my CCW which he couldn't deny me.


That doesn't make much sense- the sheriff wouldn't issue you a pistol permit but he allowed you to get a CWP which is also issued by him?:confused:

Added later- this is the law in NC and yes I'm assuming Carter is in NC as his location shows.

Serenity
February 19, 2012, 03:20 PM
Dr_B: you forgot to mention your awesome classmates. :D

My son and I went to an NRA Basic Pistol class basically on a lark; sounded like a fun summer activity and gun handling is on my list of things that everyone should be able to do. Along with drive a stick, ride a horse, change a tire, write a coherent 5 paragraph essay, tie a quick release knot. Basic stuff.

Our pistol course also fulfilled the state requirement so the other students were experienced shooters. The first day was classroom; second day at the range. We got to shoot, working our way up through the calibers, and the kid and I did pretty well, (I thought). We didn't drop the guns or cry, anyway. But we were complete novices who had never handled guns and likely made mistakes. So WE were the scary people who had never handled guns in our pistol class. I hope people aren't telling horror stories about us...

Walking Dead
February 19, 2012, 05:34 PM
Had a guy show up to mine with 9x18 makarov ammo in his Px9. Not sure how that would have worked out for him.

gpwelding1
February 19, 2012, 05:37 PM
not sure of the details yet,but here in upstate s.c. a woman was shot at a cwp class yesterday.
im going now to try and get info.
i will post it as i get it.

gpwelding1
February 19, 2012, 05:59 PM
ok,it happened in spartanburg county ,s.c.
it is being clasified as a accidental shooting,but is being investigated by SLED(south carolina law enforcement devision).
all that is being released so far is that the instructor was going to help the victim with proper grip on her weapon,however the weapon had not been cleared and had a live round in the chamber.weapon fired hitting the female student.
as they release more info i will post it on this thread.

Carter
February 19, 2012, 10:30 PM
That doesn't make much sense- the sheriff wouldn't issue you a pistol permit but he allowed you to get a CWP which is also issued by him?

Added later- this is the law in NC and yes I'm assuming Carter is in NC as his location shows.

In NC we have a nifty pistol permit law. Pretty much the Sheriff can deny a person for any reason he wants. From who you live with, minor infraction...whatever. That includes college students who get caught with adult beverages.

Well State law for CCW says as long as you meet the requirements you SHALL be issued a CCW. So, in order to buy a pistol I had to get the CCW. I borrowed a friends pistol (legal) and took the class (ironically taught by one of the Sheriffs deputies). I didn't know how to shoot a handgun yet, but I learned quickly since I would be carrying.

Luckily nothing too outrageous happened at my ccw class.

Inebriated
February 19, 2012, 10:43 PM
That doesn't make much sense- the sheriff wouldn't issue you a pistol permit but he allowed you to get a CWP which is also issued by him?

Added later- this is the law in NC and yes I'm assuming Carter is in NC as his location shows.

Pistol Purchase Permit is through the county.

CCW Permit is through the state.

We're a shall-issue state, so if you're legal, you'll get the CCW, but the Sheriff doesn't have to listen to anyone when he has PPP's coming through. I've been denied a PPP, and it's a real pain in the ass.

Jim NE
February 19, 2012, 10:58 PM
I moved behind his wife, told her, "He'll have to go through you to hit me!"


:) I'll have to remember that line. That's a straightforward yet tactful way to get the message across.

Keep in mind, sometimes even the instructors are scary. My instructor wanted to show the class how durable his S&W snubbie was, so he dropped it on the concrete floor from shoulder height...and broke it.

Nushif
February 20, 2012, 03:00 AM
My instructor wanted to show the class how durable his S&W snubbie was, so he dropped it on the concrete floor from shoulder height...and broke it.

Clearly he just didn't use the right lube. A *real* S&W would have laughed, gotten back up and stormed the beaches of Normandy by itself; And won!

gpr
February 20, 2012, 03:44 AM
i try to go to the range first thing in the morning, on a week day....when the only person i have to worry about is me.....gary

wordfan
February 20, 2012, 04:56 AM
Carter and Inebriated, you guys don't live in Durham County by chance, do you?

huntershooter
February 20, 2012, 09:09 AM
And this surprises you?

The first time I witnessed the local S.O. qualifications and saw SEVERAL officers completely missing a full size silhouette @ THREE (3) yds. I realized I would probably be well advised to be responsible for my own safety and well being.

I have no desire to go to an indoor range either. I've seen too many incredibly negligent examples of gun handling/safety violations.

A firearm is one of the things in life where you very likely may not get a "second chance" in the event of an "accident" (in quotes as I don't believe in gun "accidents", I have seen gun negligence and stupidity- but have never seen an "accident".).

I just assume the worst from people I don't know, irregardless of their "position" or credentials.

C5rider
February 20, 2012, 09:10 AM
I hope people aren't telling horror stories about us...
Serenity,

The simple fact that you are aware of this, tells me that you most likely, didn't do anything that might wind up on this thread as an example. :D

It's the folks who can't understand, "What your problem is!" that wind up here.

bikerdoc
February 20, 2012, 09:33 AM
Some people think the 4 rules are the 4 suggestions.

I drill it into every new shooter.

TarDevil
February 20, 2012, 10:27 AM
Serenity,

The simple fact that you are aware of this, tells me that you most likely, didn't do anything that might wind up on this thread as an example. :D

It's the folks who can't understand, "What your problem is!" that wind up here.
+1.

ares338
February 20, 2012, 10:50 AM
My wife and I just signed for our concealed carry class. I hope we don't run into any like the ones you experienced.

Plan2Live
February 20, 2012, 11:07 AM
How about this one in good ole SC this weekend. I wonder who gets to pay for the helicpoter ride?

"Deputies Investigate Shooting at Conceal Carry Class"
http://www.wistv.com/story/16969422/deputies-investigate-shooting-during-concealed-weapons-class

egg250
February 20, 2012, 11:27 AM
I've never attended a civilian CCW or "shooting" class. The bulk of my weapons training was received in recruit training and has been ingrained over the past 21 years.

I would think weapons handling is the very first topic covered in these classes and students should demonstrate mastery before they can move on. Yes, people pay for these classes (services) and expect a return on their investment, but what price would you put on safety? If I wouldn't want to be next to them on the firing line, I wouldn't want them on the street carrying a concealed weapon either. There are too many handgun models out there for any one instructor to become a master of them all, but there are some simple basics of weapons handling that apply to all weapons, and it is a gun owner's personal responsibility to be intimately aware of how his/her gun functions and how to use it

My uninformed personal opinion is that a CCW class is NOT a place to learn how to shoot your new gun. A quick search on the internet reveals many sources to receive basic firearms safety and handgun specific training. As these people reveal themselves we should tactfully point them towards these basic courses.

TarDevil
February 20, 2012, 12:32 PM
A quick search on the internet reveals many sources to receive basic firearms safety and handgun specific training. As these people reveal themselves we should tactfully point them towards these basic courses.

Even scarier... "Mr. Dude" who was sweeping the room with his wife's loaded .380 had recently attended just such a class with the same CCW instructor.

You buy 'em books, send 'em to school, and they just eat the book covers...

Jim NE
February 20, 2012, 01:22 PM
Clearly he just didn't use the right lube. A *real* S&W would have laughed, gotten back up and stormed the beaches of Normandy by itself; And won!


:)
He had one of the modern alloy guns. I think the real problem, though, was that he kept the cylinder open when he dropped it and it landed wrong. Took him about 20 minutes to get the cylinder back into the frame. I don't think I'd want to buy that gun used.

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