30-30 h335?


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sharpshooter81
February 16, 2012, 06:06 PM
I just loaded 50 rounds of 30-30 with 31 grains of H335.....anybody have any experience with this load? Lee's manual says a starting load is 29.5 grains and max is 33 grains?.....Havent tried it yet just wondering how much more "whack" this would have over factory loaded ammo. Thanks!!

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rcmodel
February 16, 2012, 06:38 PM
Assuming a 150 grain bullet?

It would have less "whack" then a factory load.

You are only 1.3 over the starting load.
It will give about 2,150 FPS in a 24" barrel.
Less in a 20" carbine.

A MAX load of 33.0 grains will come much closer to factory load performance.

BTW: You probably should do some new load testing before you load 50 rounds of anything!!

rc

NCsmitty
February 16, 2012, 06:43 PM
BTW: You probably should do some new load testing before you load 50 rounds of anything!!

Amen!

Welcome to THR, sharpshooter81.


NCsmitty

sharpshooter81
February 16, 2012, 07:20 PM
I was under the impression that the starting loads are very comparable to a factory load, at least thats what I have been told.

NCsmitty
February 16, 2012, 08:04 PM
I'm guessing that you are fairly new at reloading, and again, I'm guessing that you do not have a chronograph to check your load velocities. That would likely show you that your load isn't up to factory load levels at this point. Factory ammo is usually loaded up near the top, pressure wise, and reload manuals try to emulate somewhere near the maximum SAAMI spec at their maximum loads.
Somewhere between the minimum load listed and the maximum load listed, you're expected to find an accurate load with the ballistics to satisfy your requirements. That's pretty much it.
Your present load may prove completely adequate for your needs, but you may chose to up the ante if you want.


NCsmitty

rcmodel
February 16, 2012, 09:17 PM
the starting loads are very comparable to a factory load, at least thats what I have been told. You was told wrong.

Starting loads are always at least 10% under SAAMI max pressure spec, and often more then that.

For instance, Hodgdon lists it's H-335 max 150 grain load as 33.0 grains giving 36,200 cup.
The 29.7 starting load as giving 28,700 CUP.

SAAMI MAX pressure spec for the 30-30 was 38,000 CUP before they changed it to the present 42,000 PSI.

So as you can see, even MAX loads may not equal factory loads, if they are loaded to full SAAMI pressure.

rc

sharpshooter81
February 16, 2012, 09:39 PM
so my 31 gr of H335 would produce less felt recoil than factory ammo?

rcmodel
February 16, 2012, 09:41 PM
Yep, it should because you are producing less velocity, and energy.

rc

sharpshooter81
February 16, 2012, 09:47 PM
Huh, learn something new all the time!....I have read and read and read and read and read to try to get my head around all this reloading and casting thing, but i guess i have missed some important stuff....so for a 30-30, the max load in the load data still dosent match that of the factory 30-30 ammo......hard to believe....darn.....

rcmodel
February 16, 2012, 10:02 PM
No, I didn't say that.

There are several powders that will meet or exceed factory loads at safe pressure.
But H-335 isn't necessarily one of them.

Varget could give you another 50 FPS.
H-4895 could give you another 100 FPS.

But I wonder if you are reloading for all the wrong reasons?
Your most accurate load is very often found before the MAX load is reached.

And nothing you shoot with a 30-30 will be able to tell the difference between 2,150 FPS or 2,400 FPS.
Dead is dead if you hit it in the right place.

rc

sharpshooter81
February 16, 2012, 10:12 PM
Oh alright, it basically boils down to the specific powder. Gotcha. I dont necessarily want a load that will kick the crap out of my shoulder, thats not what I am getting at at all. I was going to test fire the rounds that I loaded and had no idea what to expect, thats all. These will be my first reloaded rounds ever fired!! Im a lil anxious to see what they will do.....I started at 31 gr because it was a "middle of the road" load according to Lee's manual.....not a starting load and not max load....Just wanted some insight as to what the load will do thats all, thought somebody might have experimented with this before me!!

ArchAngelCD
February 17, 2012, 04:54 AM
Welcome to the forum....

I'm just wondering, why did you choose H335 for the 30-30? The "classic" 30-30 powder is IMR3031 and Hodgdon has their new Leverevolution powder that works well in the 30-30 but when I think of the 30-30 H335 doesn't come to mine. (although it will work just fine)

Please let us know how those rounds work out when you try them at the range. (or backyard if you're lucky like that lol)

popper
February 17, 2012, 12:13 PM
H335 is a recommended powder for 30-30, along with BLC(2). That is where I started. It will work fine, even with FTXs, ~ 3" drop @ 100 over factory CL - 150s when loaded mid-range. I've tried H4895, H8205 XBR, Varget, Unique. Lever powder is better in my 336. You didn't state what bullet you are using, casting your own?

Mike 27
February 17, 2012, 12:45 PM
I have had great luck with TAC. I found the load data in guns n ammo when levereloution came out and tryed it with great results. I can kill a pie plate with a pre 64 winchester 94 and iron sights at 100y. My kid with a set of better eyes can group it 4" @ 100. I am happy with that with iron sights.

Walkalong
February 17, 2012, 01:30 PM
TAC will get close to factory velocities with 150 Gr Core-Lokts. It can also shoot under 1 MOA for three shots, if your careful, and the gun likes the Core-Lokt bullet, which is good enough for 100 to 200 yard hunting IMO.

Reloader 15 gave an outstanding ES number for me the first time I tried it at a starting load, but I have not done any more with it.

Steve C
February 17, 2012, 03:09 PM
Lee's manual says a starting load is 29.5 grains and max is 33 grains?.....Havent tried it yet just wondering how much more "whack" this would have over factory loaded ammo.

It would have less "whack" then a factory load

Quite frankly no one can tell you for sure what the bullet will be doing velocity wise. At best it will only be a guess. Differences in components (bullet, primers, case) all effect the resulting pressure and velocity of the round that may be positive or negative as well as the elevation and temperature the day you shoot it. Only a chrono will give you empirical data and you will have to run factory ammo over it at the same time to get a base line for comparison as there is quite a bit of difference between the velocity of different rifles even of the same barrel length, make and model.

New hand loaders generally worry too much about velocity of their reloads rather than working up their loads for the best accuracy out of their particular rifle. The +/- a10% difference in velocity makes no difference to the critter on the receiving end if the shot is well placed where a poorly placed shot or miss will regardless of velocity.

sharpshooter81
February 17, 2012, 04:20 PM
Thank you Steve C, its hard being a NEWBIE, lol, you have made me feel a little better about it anyway.....Lee's reloading book recommends H335 over the IMR3031....Book says powders listed at the top of the list would be more desirable to use, so I went with H335 because it was available here at our local sporting goods store, and it was farther up the list than the IMR3031 in Lee's book anyway.

rcmodel
February 17, 2012, 04:22 PM
I think Lee bases a lot of powder selections on what their dippers dip.

Maybe not so much in the manual, but the powders recommended on the data sheet that comes with the die set & dipper is crazy most of the time.

rc

sharpshooter81
February 17, 2012, 04:34 PM
does anybody have another load data book to see what the start and max load is for 150 gr jacketed bullet using H335? Just to compare it to lees info I guess... Also, what load data is everybody using? I was thinking about ordering a new Lyman 49th edition......thoughts?

rcmodel
February 17, 2012, 04:43 PM
You can get free load data from the powder manufacture.
Hodgdon website:
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

rc

olafhardtB
February 17, 2012, 07:11 PM
I remember when I started reloading 30/30 my Lyman book said thatthe best two powders were WW748 and H 335.I use 34.5 grains of 748 which is the load long reccomended by Winchester.

sharpshooter81
February 17, 2012, 08:59 PM
Yeah I have a book called "The ABC's of Reloading" and it gives a great breakdown on all the powders and what their common usages are. It says...."H335 is a double base spherical powder that produces excellent shooting in 22, and 30 caliber cases.".....

rcmodel
February 17, 2012, 09:09 PM
Hodgdon says H-335 started out as a military powder for the 5.56 NATO.
They further say it sees endless uses in small caliber cases such as the .222 Rem, and .223.

rc

sharpshooter81
February 17, 2012, 09:42 PM
as soon as i experiment with my test loads ill give you guys a heads up on the results, kinda excited to see how it will do

GooseGestapo
February 18, 2012, 02:24 PM
RCmodel was right about IMR3031 and H4895. I've got but haven't used LVR in the .30/30. I've been feeding a .338MX lately, so haven't tried it in anything else.

However, my favorite .30/30 powder is RL15. I've gotten another 50fps over H4895, and typically get 2,375-2,420fps with a 150gr Rem Corelokt from a 20"bbl.

But, others are right too,when they say that another 200fps dosen't really make a great difference with the .30/30 and appropriate bullets.
Bullet construction DOES make a difference.

Other than the Rem. Corelokts, and Win. Power-Points, I can only recommend the 125gr Sierra H.P. on our "smaller" deer.

H335 isn't that bad of a powder in the .30/30 as it is close to BLC2/Win748 which is what Winchester uses to load the factory .30/30 150gr load with. BTW; the velocity of the factory ammo is 2,275fps from a 20"bbl and the lot# I tested was 35.7gr of Win748 (or non-cannister equivalent.) The 31.0gr load will be just a little under the factory loads at about 2,150fps as another poster speculated.

I didn't like H335 in the .30/30 as it is designed to work best at higher pressures than the .30/30 generates. I got or at least noticed a lot of flash from H335. Recently tried it in a .358win w/180gr bullets and noticed it again. It isn't my favorite .223 powder either as I get better velocities and accuracy from BLC2/Win748. But then again I prefer Reloader15 for this application also.

4895
February 18, 2012, 05:28 PM
I am working a load up for a javelina hunt next week starting with Varget and 150 grain Sierra flat nose. If you want I will post some results. I might load some Hornady 165 grain polymer tipped lever boolits with Leverevolution and/or H4895. I am shooting tomorrow so I will load tonight.

sharpshooter81
February 19, 2012, 12:11 AM
thanks goose for your 30-30 info it has been most helpful!!

4895
February 20, 2012, 01:47 AM
I went shooting Sunday and here are the following results.

Sierra FN 150 grain bullet:

H335 max load of 33.0 grains gave a decent group at 50 yards, (2 inch), with less recoil and report than other powders.

Varget midrange load of 33.0 grains gave a similar result as H335 with bit more recoil.

Hornady 160 grain FTX bullets:

Loaded 32.5, 33.5, 34.5, 35.5, and 37.0 grains of leverevolution powder.

34.5 was good with a 1.5 inch group, the rest were as good as H335 or Varget with more recoil and louder report.

The 37.0 grain load is listed in my Hornady book as max, and all I can say is WOW. It does have more recoil than other loads, but 3 shots were almost touching at 50 yards with Williams peep sight. I would say 1/2" center to center max. This is definately my go to load.

I wasn't able to test at 100 or 200 yards as they were full up. I got there early 8am opening time, and tested 7 different load, and the long range filled quickly. I took some pics with my cell phone but can't find the cable to download them to the computer. I will post them if you want when I can find the cable. Hope this helps, my rifle is a Winchester 94 1971 year .30-30 with 20 inch barrel I think. Again, I am going to order more FTX bullets in the future and stick with Leverevolution powder, which is a ball powder that meters well. It is the shiznit. Good luck, YMMV.

ArchAngelCD
February 20, 2012, 05:47 AM
Yeah I have a book called "The ABC's of Reloading" and it gives a great breakdown on all the powders and what their common usages are. It says...."H335 is a double base spherical powder that produces excellent shooting in 22, and 30 caliber cases.".....
I think the 22 they were referring to is the .223 (5.56mm NATO) and the 30 they were referring to is the .308 (7.62mm NATO), not all 30 caliber loads.

From what I understand H335 or it's surplus cousin WC844 are used in the small NATO round the BL-C(2) WC846 are used in the large NATO round.

Like said above, there are many powders that will work well in the 30-30 and it can be loaded with powders with a wide range of burn rates. that's probably because the 30-30 is a fairly low pressure round but that's just a guess on my part.

Clark
February 20, 2012, 04:08 PM
The 30-30 is SAAMI registered at 42,000 psi and 54,600 - 58,800 psi with a case head base of ~ .14 sq in. That would be 5,800 pounds of thrust normally and test 7,600 - 8,200 pound thrust.

Wimp:
Looking at Win 1894 and Marlin 336 actions, I am not too inspired.
I have not gone through an analysis, but they just don't look beefy enough to push brass to the limit.

Medium:
The Sav99, I guess I have one of those in 30-30 too, looks much stronger, but still locks up in the back, which will stretch brass.

Good:
The Sav 219 break action looks good, and I have pushed it to near the limit of the cartridge itself. Quickload thinks I am at 83kpsi when I ran out of case volume, but Large Boxer primers will pierce around there.
I have converted a Mosin Nagant to 30-30 and it looks good.
I guess I have a Win 1885 falling block high wall in 30-30, and it looks good.

tahoe2
February 20, 2012, 10:59 PM
I use H-335 in a Savage model 99 in .300 Savage with Sierra 150 grn pro hunter bullets, my Speer #11 manual lists a starting load of 33 grns and goes up to 39.5 for a max load. I get my best groups at 38.5 grains which as you can see is 1 grn below max with no signs of excessive pressure. This powder burns very clean and recoil is mild, as are most .300 Savage loads. I have always been pleased with it's performance as well as BLC-2(almost exactly the same) for what it's worth

kestak
February 22, 2012, 09:04 PM
I base all my reloading data on Lyman manual, Speer manual, hodgdon website and people from here.

Welcome to reloading. Just ask all the questions you have. None will be taken as a stupid question. Better to ask than to make a mistake.

Trust me, I asked my fair share of questions here and ALWAYS got answers that were right.

popper
February 24, 2012, 05:22 PM
4895: I've used the FTX with 335, XBR, H4895 and lever. They will all do 1 MOA @ 100. I LIKE the lever. It makes noise and kicks, even more in 308ME. Works good for cast and I've gone down to 19 gr without problems (cast). I wouldn't try the reduced loads with H335.

4895
February 25, 2012, 12:26 AM
<popper>

I typically load 20.0 Grains of H-4895 in .30-30 with a 165 Grain Lead Flat Point hard cast bullet. I can remember even numbers better than most others (go figure). I have found that load is great for plinking on the cheap. I was absolutely amazed with the group I shot with 37.0 grains of Leverevolution powder and Hornady FTX 160 Grain bullets. I will be hunting soon and will find out how well they do in the 'real' world. Rifle is plain jane with open sights, just the way I like them.

popper
February 25, 2012, 08:02 PM
My son-in-law got a 300# piggy last year with 308ME FTX, did the job nicely(40 yds and the bullet didn't explode, broke the spine). Same bullet, different crimp groove location, so you are good-to-go. Plus you get an extra 50 yds effective range and less drop to compensate.

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