Orginial Safe Company (Lacka Safe)


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OTR
February 16, 2012, 07:10 PM
I'm looking at buying a safe and my local retailer sells several high end safe brands from Ft. Knox to Graffunder. His price on the Gruffunder model that I was interested in is over $15K delivered and installed. His price on an Original Safe (Platinum Vault TL30x6 model 7036) is around $8K delivered and installed. He stated that the Original Safe is as good as the Gruffunder and the contents can be insured since it has the wonderful UL label. I have read great and wonderful things on the Gruffunder, but how does the Original Safe/Lacka Safe company compare? Any other suggestions that are in the $6-8K price range on a safe that has an interior volume of 30+ cubic feet?

Thanks,
OTR

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JO JO BANG
February 16, 2012, 07:23 PM
$6K -$8K-$15K !WOW! So what do i have and i only spent $600

a1abdj
February 16, 2012, 10:07 PM
The Original is a lower end import. Not that it's a bad safe, but it will not be the same quality as others.

armoredman
February 16, 2012, 11:48 PM
An $8000 safe is a low end import...make me and my Ft Knox feel kinda trashy.

a1abdj
February 17, 2012, 11:23 AM
An $8000 safe is a low end import...make me and my Ft Knox feel kinda trashy.

Low end import as far as TL30x6 safes go. ;)

For giggles, I'm looking at AMSEC's new TL30x6, which is a middle of the road unit. It looks like it would sell for $8,000 plus shipping, so you're not saving a whole lot with the Original.

Again, it's not a bad safe. They all meet the same minimum UL standards.

jim357
February 22, 2012, 01:48 PM
A1ABDJ -

I understand that the Original brand safe is lower end, what are some of the better tool resistant safes? How do you like the Amsec tool resistant safes? Thanks

a1abdj
February 22, 2012, 11:34 PM
what are some of the better tool resistant safes?

There are a number of European safes that are built very well, most of which have names you've probably never heard of. Some of the most well known manufacturers would be Tann, Chubb, Fichet, etc. ISM out of Israel is also a very good safe, and very well known amongst those that need these types of safes.

How do you like the Amsec tool resistant safes?

I certainly have my problems with AMSEC as a company, but they do build good safes. Their composite AMVAULTS are pretty common, and they also build a lot of specialty safes for various companies that use them nationwide.

Honest T
May 6, 2012, 06:35 PM
It is important for safe buyers to know that Original Safes, especially the Platinum Vault UL TL30X6 High Security Safe, IS THE FURTHEST THING FROM BEING "LOW END". Original Safe and Vault Inc. has been manufacturing high security safes since 1980 and, the Platinum Vault by Original has carried the prestigous UL Label of TL30X6 since 1998, a label that 98% of the gun safes and home safes being sold on the market DON'T HAVE. For those that do not know about the UL TL30X6 label, U.L. (Underwriter's Labortatories) awards it to a safe that is able to withstand the most extremely rigorous professional burglary attacks with all of the major power tools (aka "break in tools").

A safe of the Platinum Vault's caliber allow its owners to get $1/2 Million to $1 Million Dollars of an Insurance Policy on their valuables. This is why a majority of retail and wholesale Jewelers use this safe everyday to protect their livelihood.

Not many safes give you that kind of protection and peace of mind. Not many safes are as powerful as the Platinum Vault.

Moderator note: Honest T's email address goes to lakasafe.com

xjetpilot
May 7, 2012, 11:51 PM
I've also spent some time researching the Original Platinum series recently, as well as the Amsec Amvault line, both of which are UL TL-30x6 with a composite fire/ security barrier.

My reason for looking at the Original Platinum line was based on the variety of sizes available, compared to the Amvault line. In this type of safe, the larger models get extremely heavy, which can present problems for the residential homeowner. These safes are obviously geared towards the jeweler or business owner.

My local dealer said he delivered several new Original safes last year and I quote, " They were rough looking even though they were new." I'm not going to pass any judgement until I see them with my own eyes. This dealer sells some high end Fort Knox, Summit, Superior, Amsec,& Graffunder safes, so I'm curious to see what he considers "rough".

I will say I spoke to Mak, a LackaSafe staff member, and he was impressive in his product knowledge & customer service. When I ask most safe dealers specific questions regarding steel thickness (with the exception of Frank or Jim, our THR pros) they just look at me like I asked them to recite Quantum Physics theory.

OTR
May 8, 2012, 03:19 PM
Well I went with with a very large Original Platinum TL 30x6 safe. I had my wife, who was visiting her parents in NJ, stop by their showroom to look at the safe in person. She and my father-in-law were very impressed with the safes, even when I had them compare it to an ISM they had on hand. The staff was very nice to them and gave me a discount for buying it from their store location. They set up the shipping for me to my home through R&L shipping and I rented a forklift and a heavy duty pallet jack for the day to get it off the truck and into my house (with some additional help).

Over all I am very happy with the safe. I bought a floor model that was shipped several hundred miles to my home and it is in new condition. The safe was very protected and crated when it left the show room. The keys and combination where mailed separately to my house a few days before the safe arrived.

One may ask:
- Does the safe look like a commercial safe? Yes it does because that's what it is and that's what it feels like when manipulating 800+ lb door.
-Is the paint shiny like a Ft. Knox? No, it has a flat dark gray body with a flat light gray door and a very nice and shiny lock and handle. I personally don't mind the looks of the safe. I am a person that believes more in function over beauty and the safe is in an area of my home that no one will see it but my wife or I.
- Is the inside finished from the store? No, it is bare metal and metal shelves, but they do offer it for an additional fee. I on the other hand enjoy doing wood work and want the interior of the safe up to my standards. I had them drill a small hole in the top of the back of the safe for a golden rod electrical cord for $75 or so. I would highly recommend this as I didn't want to worry about trying to drill through this safe.
-Would I recommend the safe? Very much so, I couldn't imagine trying to break into this thing. The secondary key is 5"+ long to get to the lock behind all the steel. I could not imagine someone trying to steal a 5,000 lb safe from my home without anyone noticing. This thing is very heavy (more than an average car) and I would recommend extreme caution if you ever plan on moving this thing your self.

Please feel free to ask any further questions.

symantix
May 8, 2012, 04:22 PM
Congratulations on your purchase, and I hope you enjoy it for many years to come.

I also considered the Original but once I found out it was made in China I decided against it. I saw them in person and they "look" fine at first glance. I didn't notice any defects or obvious issues that I usually have with Chinese stuff.

My major issue is that the UL only tests an item when it is brand new at the factory. It does not factor in how things wear over time. I am in the manufacturing business and have become all too familiar with Chinese steel, Chinese bearings, Chinese bushings, etc... My personal concern would be how the door hinges and welds will stand up over time. In a residential environment probably not an issue with a few openings per week. But in a commercial environment where it's being opened 10-20 times a day things might be different.

But the other major reason I stayed away from any Chinese-made safe is that I have a serious political and economic issue with how the USA has become captive to China. They basically own us, and if they ever called our debt due we would be screwed. Whenever possible, I try to stay away from Chinese products, period. Just my contribution to society and the American way of life.

In any case, I wound up buying a 1 year old Amvault X6 and have been very pleased with it so far. I bought it for about 65% off MSRP, and about half of the price that A1 quoted here.

symantix
May 8, 2012, 04:24 PM
It is important for safe buyers to know that Original Safes, especially the Platinum Vault UL TL30X6 High Security Safe, IS THE FURTHEST THING FROM BEING "LOW END". Original Safe and Vault Inc. has been manufacturing high security safes since 1980 and, the Platinum Vault by Original has carried the prestigous UL Label of TL30X6 since 1998, a label that 98% of the gun safes and home safes being sold on the market DON'T HAVE. For those that do not know about the UL TL30X6 label, U.L. (Underwriter's Labortatories) awards it to a safe that is able to withstand the most extremely rigorous professional burglary attacks with all of the major power tools (aka "break in tools").

A safe of the Platinum Vault's caliber allow its owners to get $1/2 Million to $1 Million Dollars of an Insurance Policy on their valuables. This is why a majority of retail and wholesale Jewelers use this safe everyday to protect their livelihood.

Not many safes give you that kind of protection and peace of mind. Not many safes are as powerful as the Platinum Vault.
Honest T - Nice first post. It's not at all obvious that you are related to Lacka or one of its distributors. Nope, you're clearly just a well educated person who stumbled onto this thread and felt the need to set the record straight. ;)

OTR
May 12, 2012, 08:25 PM
Symantix you are correct that the safe is made in China. For some reason I thought I read on this board that it was made in Eastern Europe somewhere. So when I saw your post I thought to myself "I think it is made in Eastern Europe". So I called the company before replying and asked them where the safe was made and they said...Asia.....(pause)......China.

Well I agree with you and I try to buy American goods when I can. I personally am not a fan of buying things from China and make it a point to buy American when I have the option. I guess I should have asked them before I bought the safe instead of relying off of something that I read on the internet. But in the end I'm still happy with the safe and I don't think the welds will break since this thing just sits on the floor and the dynamic forces are not very much while opening the door.

xjetpilot
May 13, 2012, 11:24 AM
OTR, maybe you can answer this question without revealing personal specifics? I've considered a few safes in the 2500 - 4000lb weight class, for residential use. Our house is built on a concrete slab and is of newer construction (1998). Your Original safe was substantially heavier (5000+ lbs) if I recall. Did you have any issues with the floor supporting this weight?

Placing a safe in my garage is not something I would do, since it bypasses multiple other layers of security I have in place. I'm just curious if this was an issue for you when you purchased yours? Thanks.

OTR
May 13, 2012, 12:20 PM
^^PM sent^^

SlamFire1
May 13, 2012, 01:44 PM
Very much so, I couldn't imagine trying to break into this thing.

Sounds as though you got a very good safe. But a safe in my opinion is only a barrier. Anything made by man can be unmade by man.

Given hours of beating with sledge hammers, and steel cutting with an acetylene torch, all safes can be opened. Better safes just take longer.

If you plan to park something worth $100's of thousands of dollars in the thing and expect to go to Europe for months on end, you might be making a poor decision.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2f8_1322867462

symantix
May 14, 2012, 12:44 PM
OTR - Lacka used to manufacture in the former Yugoslavia (Macedonia). When the genocide issues started peaking in the late 1990's they moved manufacturing over to China.

I debated the merits of their decision with one of their salespeople (the owner's daughter, maybe?). We went back and forth several times and her main point was that the UL rating maintains a universal standard and it doesn't matter where the product is made. As long as it's rated, it's good enough. She said they sell a lot of these to the diamond district in New York and that most of the jewelers are moving away from expensive European safes and going to these Chinese Originals.

Interestingly - they make a point in all of their literature and sales pitch to avoid telling customers where it is made. Only when asked directly will they say "imported" or "asia". It took me 2 or 3 follow up questions to pull the word "China" out of her.

symantix
May 14, 2012, 01:12 PM
<edited for accuracy>

Slamfire - the safe in the video you posted (and indeed most gas station or fast food depository safes) appears to be a Tidel TACC. It carries no current UL rating, nor does it even live up to the outdated "B" rating. It is made of 1/4" plate all around, including the door. It weighs around 290 pounds.

The video you posted showed the burglar getting into the safe in about 9 minutes. That is indicative of a highly skilled amateur, but perhaps not quite a professional.

Important to note that the OP purchased a TL30X6 rated safe, which weights at least 12-15 times more than the safe in the video. TL30X6 safes, as you may already know, carry at least 6 times the amount of high quality steel (and often much more) than the safe in the video. They are certified to resist at least 30 minutes of continuous working time by the highest skilled safe crackers in the world. A lower level professional might take several hours to gain entry and an amateur could take all day and still might not get in.

98f150
May 14, 2012, 05:13 PM
This guy is correct about buying Chinese products. I try when ever possible to buy American made and I am willing to pay more for the item.

SlamFire1
May 14, 2012, 05:50 PM
The video you posted showed the burglar getting into the safe in about 9 minutes. That is indicative of a highly skilled amateur, but perhaps not quite a professional.

I could not find a video of a professional cracking a safe, but the guy with a grinder shows that with time, patience and cheap tools, nothing is safe.

I listened to a guy on a radio whose really expensive safe was busted in. The thieves took sledgehammers and spent hours beating it open. But they got it open. He lost valubles worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I am aware of only one Egyptian Pharaoh tomb which was not looted. And all those guys had were copper chisels.

As for professionals, I saw one office safe opened by professionals when the electronic lock failed. These guys came in, set up their drilling jig, and they had that safe open in less than five minutes.

symantix
May 14, 2012, 06:30 PM
I agree. Even Fort Knox (the Army base, not the gun safe) can be broken into with the right team and tools. However, as a homeowner trying to secure a gun and jewelry collection, I am not so worried about a team of professionals coming into my house with a drill rig to work my safe for hours. I am more concerned about thwarting amateur burglars and home invasion robbers holding a gun to my head to open the safe. But just in case they bring a drill rig, I have a TL30X6...

I've designed my house with multiple layers of physical security and have hidden caches of defense weapons located in strategic places. My safe is alarmed and it also has a silent duress code. With a code-3 police response of around 2 minutes in my area, I would hopefully be able to stall just long enough for the police to arrive.

a1abdj
May 14, 2012, 07:37 PM
I debated the merits of their decision with one of their salespeople (the owner's daughter, maybe?). We went back and forth several times and her main point was that the UL rating maintains a universal standard and it doesn't matter where the product is made. As long as it's rated, it's good enough.

That's not exactly true. The UL standard is not "a" standard, or "the" standard. It is the minimum standard. For example, you could have two TL-30 safes submitted for testing. One could last 30 minutes and one second, and the other could last 50 minutes. Both would still get the exact same label.

Just because two safes have the same rating, does not mean that they are equal.

As has also been pointed out, the rating is strictly for the resistance to burglary at the time of manufacture. It has nothing to do with the quality of the safe, or how it will stand up to everyday use and abuse.


She said they sell a lot of these to the diamond district in New York and that most of the jewelers are moving away from expensive European safes and going to these Chinese Originals.


I wouldn't say that "most" jewelers are doing any such thing. There is certainly a percentage of them that want the lowest price safe they can get. They understand that their insurer doesn't care what it's in, so long as it has that UL label. In their eyes, it's not worth spending anything more than the bare minimum to meet the requirements. We sell a brand that's in a similar price point, but made in South Africa.

On the other hand, you have jewelers that actually know what quality is. They want the best money can buy, as they know it is often a one time expense. I deal with several jewelers in the St. Louis area, and not one of them uses an Original. In fact, the only Original I have seen locally was one I installed in a house. I feel it is a decent product at a good price point, but it is certainly not a substitute for a higher end unit.

OTR
May 15, 2012, 01:16 AM
Slamfire1
"I could not find a video of a professional cracking a safe, but the guy with a grinder shows that with time, patience and cheap tools, nothing is safe."

Here is a video that features what a safe must go through to get a UL TL-30 label.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtbGUbeM860

But always remember that the best security is not telling anyone what you have. That is why my safe is well hidden and even close family members don't know that I have a safe in the house, let alone think that I even need a safe of this caliber.

98f150
May 15, 2012, 04:41 AM
Would having a large RSC rated security container and then buying another smaller one to put inside the larger one give me higher security then a TL30X6 I was thinking about that?

a1abdj
May 15, 2012, 09:08 AM
Would having a large RSC rated security container and then buying another smaller one to put inside the larger one give me higher security then a TL30X6 I was thinking about that?

A RSC inside another RSC? Probably not. I haven't seen much with a RSC label built much heavier than a B rate.

As far as ratings and insurability goes, you have B Rate < C Rate < E Rate < TL-15 < F Rate < TL-30 < TL-15x6 < TL-30X6. As you go up the scale, your insurability +/- doubles with a B rate usually offering +/- $10,000 in coverage, and a TL-30X6 offering +/- $500,000.

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