I Can Afford To Leave Live Ammo Lying On The Ground...


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mcofboise
February 17, 2012, 12:15 AM
... well, not me, actually, but apparently some folks can
This is a 2-part photo -- the stuff on the left side including the pile of 78 .22LR cartridges is the take from a recent trip to the desert to shoot some test loads that ended up being yet another scrounge-fest, resulting in a gallon bucket of reloadable brass and those live rounds; the stuff standing to the right of the rimfire heap is some of the 926 rounds of live ammo I found in the desert in 2011, along with over 9000 rounds of reloadable brass. More later on why I kept track. I've since stopped counting...
This latest trip was remarkable only in that I didn't make a day of it, rather it was a quick trip visiting only 2 popular shooting spots, I'd been there a week prior and picked these spots over... and the amount of live rounds I found. It's just a pet peeve of mine. It just seems careless to not pick up a misfired round and try to dispose of it in a proper manner. And they aren't all misfires. I frequently find live .22s in multiples, obviously just a spilled box not adequately recovered. Most of the .40s have light firing pin strikes, as do the majority of the steel rifle ammo, and I'm glad I wasn't shooting with the guy that left behind the 4 .22s that are bent almost 90 degrees.
It's been... interesting. More components, I suppose, and additions for the ever-expanding cartridge collection.

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J_McLeod
February 17, 2012, 12:18 AM
Where in the desert?

35 Whelen
February 17, 2012, 12:18 AM
Interesting...and no wonder the tree huggers want to shut down shooting in the desert. Slobs leave their brass and trash everywhere.
I have a range here at the house that many of my friends use as I welcome them to it. But unbelievable I have to ASK them to pick up their brass(city folks)!! I guess they think brass is biodegradeable or something.
35W

Lost Sheep
February 17, 2012, 02:07 AM
I worry about non-biodegradable targets and the lead I leave behind.

Lost Sheep

XxBulletBendeRXx
February 17, 2012, 02:56 AM
... well, not me, actually, but apparently some folks can
This is a 2-part photo -- the stuff on the left side including the pile of 78 .22LR cartridges is the take from a recent trip to the desert to shoot some test loads that ended up being yet another scrounge-fest, resulting in a gallon bucket of reloadable brass and those live rounds; the stuff standing to the right of the rimfire heap is some of the 926 rounds of live ammo I found in the desert in 2011, along with over 9000 rounds of reloadable brass. More later on why I kept track. I've since stopped counting...
This latest trip was remarkable only in that I didn't make a day of it, rather it was a quick trip visiting only 2 popular shooting spots, I'd been there a week prior and picked these spots over... and the amount of live rounds I found. It's just a pet peeve of mine. It just seems careless to not pick up a misfired round and try to dispose of it in a proper manner. And they aren't all misfires. I frequently find live .22s in multiples, obviously just a spilled box not adequately recovered. Most of the .40s have light firing pin strikes, as do the majority of the steel rifle ammo, and I'm glad I wasn't shooting with the guy that left behind the 4 .22s that are bent almost 90 degrees.
It's been... interesting. More components, I suppose, and additions for the ever-expanding cartridge collection.
Love those bent 22's. I can see how a problem like that being 1, 2, mayybe three times... BUT 4.. LMAO! OK.. other than a potentially dangerous situation. If the issue with the gun, (whatever it may) has not stopped somwhere during the 1st or second possibly a third and final time this occured it may be time to stop shooting that particular gun til you diagnose the problem. IE: take it home and dissasemle on bench. IMO, That is sloppy. LOL.
There were probably a few more that you didnt find and the one the guy took home himself. This is pure speculation though... LOL....

ArchAngelCD
February 17, 2012, 03:36 AM
Well that's all and good but it's not a "great day" until you find a gun laying around with that ammo!


(J/K)

whubbard
February 17, 2012, 05:31 AM
What in the world is going on here?
http://i.imgur.com/oL6AG.jpg

Striker Fired
February 17, 2012, 10:12 AM
I would definately not shoot any of them in my guns,There may be a reason why some of them were left there,others probably dropped out of pockets or mags,ect...

popper
February 17, 2012, 10:58 AM
35 Whelen - they know you reload! Of course they could be polite and bring it to you. Just joking. I've shot on others land and tried to pick it up but sometimes it's hard to find in the grass. I take a plastic tarp with me now. Visiting public shooting areas and you find lots of SA brass, mostly pistol and 22, everywhere, even under the sign that says police your brass. Ain't their yard so they don't care. Like the national debt, not their problem.

bubbacrabb
February 17, 2012, 12:30 PM
I used to hit my honey holes in az for brass. Kinda glad they didn't pick that up, I did get mad though at the tons of broken TVs microwaves, washing machines, and other things people were shooting the beck out of they left behind. One of these days though ill land back in the Midwest with some property for a gun range

mcofboise
February 17, 2012, 12:43 PM
@ J McLeod: Different desert than you're used to there in the Republic. High desert south of Boise, Idaho, public and BLM grazing lands, intermixed with part of the military range used by the Idaho Army National Guard for troop, tank and Apache training, with public access to all but the tank range. Some of the last of the ever-dwindling public land in the area where shooters are allowed access.
@ Stiker Fired: Wouldn't think of shooting any of this, except maybe the .40 since I don't own a gun in that caliber and I'd have to borrow a Glock from somebody to try it. :) Seriously though, I have seen the results from a friend of mine picking up a .44 Mag round in the desert and touching it off in what up until that point had been a beautiful old 3-screw Ruger Blackhawk. After that it became a gunshop curio attesting to why it's a really bad idea to shoot mystery meat through your own guns. I pulled a lot of what I found apart for components, including the 800 some .22 LR, dumping the powder into my 4th of July can, the lead into my range scrap pot and the brass into the recycle/salvage bucket. Some of the rimfire I set aside to test for primer viability and water resistance; an upcoming experiment.
@XxBulletBenderXx: With that handle, no wonder you picked those out of the lineup! They were in a huge scatter of fired brass and you're right -- someone was fighting a losing battle with that gun. It needs some TLC.
@ wHubbard: That is an FN 71 headstamped steel case, copper washed, then painted red, .30-'06 bulleted blank. Now also a bit rusty, and just a curio in the pick-up collection.
@ArchAngelCD: No guns found -- yet. 150+ intact clay pigeons, a dozen-and-a-half golf balls, a Winchester pocket knife, several nice reactive and spinner targets, a kid's winter coat that went to GoodWill, 38 cents in change, and an Audi at the end of a short oil trail. I left that. Couldn't lift it into my pickup.
@35 Whelen, Lost Sheep, Popper: You're touching on my mission here. We're likely to get excluded from public lands if we aren't proactive about the debris that gun slobs leave behind. I'm in the camp (pun intended) that likes to leave it better than I found it. My favorite long range target is a water filled plastic milk jug. After I shoot a few of these, I pull a large garbage bag out of my truck collect my targets and however much other plastic debris I can fit into it and bring it home to the recycle bin. Another bag is typically filled with aluminum cans, which I sell. The brass I don't reload gets traded or sold as scrap. My least favorite targets to find in the desert are old TVs and computer monitors because of the broken glass debris that is seemingly unmanageable. However, the coils surrounding the back of the yoke and the degaussing coils from the front of the CRT are substantial and normally sell as #1 copper. That almost pays for the dump fees for a pickup load of the shot up hulks. Computer circuit boards contain a considerable amount of recoverable gold. I cast bullets, so any range scrap goes into my bucket as well, a typical easy recovery session nets 10 pounds or so of usable alloying material.
Glass. The most difficult and dangerous to deal with. Why do people insist on shooting glass? I can usually find a few boxes that aren't badly shot up and fill them with the bigger chunks of bottles, but I can only scratch the surface of that problem. It appears that some folks must dumpster dive behind local bars and bring truckloads of liquor bottles to the desert to shoot to smithereens and leave behind a dangerous mess. I have a picture of a 100+ square foot debris field of green glass. I like to take my dogs with me so they can run and exercise in the wild while I walk and bend and pack and get my exercise as well. But I can't just let them run when there are dangers like this to avoid and it pisses me off.
I also have a picture of a yearling calf standing in one of these target rich environs, eating a plastic grocery bag. It starts some other troubling thoughts.

mike

Chris-bob
February 18, 2012, 03:02 AM
Long ago I used to love going out to Black's Creek for shooting. It always bothered me the way people would leave their trash behind. How hard is it to set up a few targets, then remove them when you leave?

Hogpauls
February 18, 2012, 08:28 PM
I'm out there at least once a week shooting and picking up brass. I pick up live rounds all the time but never in that quantity. I find it incredibly irresponsible for people to leave those lying around with a complete disregard to other peoples safety. Even though the chances of one of them going off is pretty much nil, it's just not cool in my book.

I must be behind you on some days cause I'm not bringing home as much brass as I'd like. :D

birdshot8's
February 18, 2012, 08:47 PM
Those 22 rounds might be mine. I was loading my springfield and fumbled the box. 49 rounds dropped into ankle deep snow, found a few before my fingers turned to ice.

mcofboise
February 18, 2012, 11:49 PM
@Chris Bob: The Black's Creek area that was open public access was sold a couple years ago and is now privately owned. That dismal news was delivered to me by a very nice
Sheriff's deputy who also offered the location of the closest last vestige of shootable ground. They chase folks off politely, but I did notice a while back that the landowner is going to have to do something serious to stop the trespassing.
And the black helicopters know all about the guns out there. :)

@Hogpauls: I was thinking the same thing. :P Some days are better than others. The mild winter was good for desert rats like us. Maybe we'll have to meet up.

@ birdshot8s: Come get 'em. ;)

mike

x_wrench
February 19, 2012, 10:30 AM
i need to find a place like that!

outlander0129
February 19, 2012, 11:11 AM
Living here around Reno, there is a multitude of places to go shooting in the desert. My shooting partner and I only shoot in one spot, but we travel to the many other spots to pick up brass that we can use. The quantity of live rounds we find is quite considerable. We have had people shooting near us and I have watched them drop live rounds and don't bother picking them up. When I questioned them about it this is the response I get most often, " Well it fell in the dirt and I don't want it in my gun now, it might damage it". I just tell them fine let me know when you get ready to leave, cause I'll pick it up. In the three years that we have been doing this, we have picked up over 75,000 rounds of live ammo. We occasionally find partially full and full boxes that have never been opened. If it's a live round we will pick it up no matter what the caliber. I prefer paper targets and will take them home with me so I can study them and reload accordingly. Happy shooting. :D

Geneseo1911
February 19, 2012, 11:50 AM
I envy you guys with easy access to desert shooting. I certainly hope the slobs don't ruin it for everyone.

I have found .22s that look exactly like those four bent ones in brand new Remington bulk packs. I would bet they have R's stamped on the bottom.

XxBulletBendeRXx
February 19, 2012, 10:48 PM
I envy you guys with easy access to desert shooting. I certainly hope the slobs don't ruin it for everyone.

I have found .22s that look exactly like those four bent ones in brand new Remington bulk packs. I would bet they have R's stamped on the bottom.
IMO this is a classic case of grass is greener on ther side. Cause all those who shoot in the desert with only a short drive, Probably envy the guys who can go right out there front or back door and shoot on thier own property.
Now then there are the guys who live in the desert, that being their own property who can just go out the door and shoot as well... (I felt the need to add that last sentence in order to shake off some a potential captian obvious lurking out there.) LOL... IT's a JOKE!!

mcofboise
February 19, 2012, 11:18 PM
Sorry, G, they gots the big F on their buttocks and huge dings in their noses from running headlong into a sharp edge. As I process the RF I find, I check the rims and the unofficial winner for most rounds found struck but unfired has a gold nose and a rem-arkable headstamp. In a fit of devil's advocacy, I've held a bunch back and will attempt to fire them to determine if it was a light strike or if they just really produce that kind of substandard ammo. My M&P 15-22 came with warnings against using several types of ammo, including the goldnose. Testing confirmed their caveat.
The bullets melt down okay and make good new ones. :)

I can't believe you use en bloc 8-rounders in your 1911...

mike

Geneseo1911
February 19, 2012, 11:31 PM
I can't believe you use en bloc 8-rounders in your 1911...

It's specially modified. My AR-15, too. I haven't quite figured out the auto-eject on the Glock, though.

I find about 10% bad in the super cheap Rem. bulk stuff. More than half of those fire on the second strike, though I've had better luck with that which comes in plastic boxes.

So, how do you pull the bullets on the .22s? Pliers, or is there actually a tool? I don't think my inertia puller has collets that small.

I would have a really hard time going out to public shooting areas like that, though. I have this really bad OCD that forces me to scrounge every last piece of brass & hull. The only thing I don't pick up is the steel casings (which is only 9x18), since they'll rust away, and it's nothing compared to all the other scrap metal that surfaces in my yard, having been a continuous farmstead since the railroads went through.

mcofboise
February 20, 2012, 10:58 AM
Pliers. (1) I'm too cheap and (2) OCD to buy a tool to do it, (3) I have both inertia and collet pullers available, but I don't want to test my theory on what might happen if I put a lot of stress on a primed rim, considering how firmly that heeled bullet is crimped into the case. As a side note, Super X is the hardest to separate of all the brands, Rem the easiest.
Stingers are not waterproof, but that's a fishing story.

If it's decomposable, it doesn't bother me, other than the messiness of some of it; steel cases are an ashes to ashes thing. A microwave or washing machine is entirely different. Or a mattress. In my next fit, I'll probably start picking up all of the aluminum cases and tossing them in with the cans. I'd pick up all the RF brass if it wasn't so time consuming and nearly counterproductive. I do pick up some of it if it's mixed in with reloadable stuff I'm already down on the ground for. Shotgun hulls perplex me; I don't know what to do about them.
I've never been particularly Green, just pragmatic. If it's useful (recyclable in broad terms), it's wasteful to leave it. If it's a blight, it needs to be out of sight.

NeuseRvrRat
February 20, 2012, 02:44 PM
Shotgun hulls perplex me; I don't know what to do about them.


i like to line them up at 100 yds and hit them with my 22 wmr

mcofboise
February 28, 2012, 03:22 PM
I told you! :D

mike

CraigC
February 28, 2012, 07:59 PM
.22LR cartridges are outside lubed, usually with a wax-based lubricant. Dropped in the dirt, it is easy for these to pick up grit in the lube. I almost never pick them up when I drop them because I don't want that grit grinding itself into my bores. Dispose of them? No.

Hogpauls
February 28, 2012, 09:20 PM
MC, I was out there Monday and saw one of Apaches no more than 50 off the ground skimming the terrain. Finding brass was particularly dismal some guy in a Chevy truck with 2 dogs beat me to a couple good shooting areas, that wasn't you was it? At least I got some loads chronoed and didn't blow the gun up. :D

mcofboise
February 29, 2012, 07:26 PM
MC, I was out there Monday and saw one of Apaches no more than 50 off the ground skimming the terrain. Finding brass was particularly dismal some guy in a Chevy truck with 2 dogs beat me to a couple good shooting areas, that wasn't you was it? At least I got some loads chronoed and didn't blow the gun up. :D

As a matter of fact...:evil: The brass ratting was pretty good for me!
And that picture would be of the same Apache. I didn't have the camera close by when he was flying nap of the earth.
I don't always take the dogs, and if they're with me, I'm just letting them blow off steam while I play. They're both gunshy >sigh<. Say howdy sometime. And I always leave if somebody wants to shoot in a particular place... somedays it gets crowded out there.
Had it all to myself today what with the snow. :)

mike

Hogpauls
February 29, 2012, 10:39 PM
How funny. I was the guy in the silver Ford that passed you at one spot, then I practically followed you up to Cinder Cone by the observation tower. We'll have to get together and have a scavenger hunt and maybe shoot some piggies.

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