Thanks for the links the one from 2010 really helps me gauge the current market...:(
February 18, 2012, 06:40 PM
How does this grab ya,
I recently rebuilt this 1927 Systema Colt using the parts from an Ithaca 1911A1 that .gov cut up some 20 years ago.
The only original parts are the frame, slide, and barrel which were built in 1937 and I value the pistol @ $450 retail as is. HTH
February 18, 2012, 09:59 PM
Figure in the $400-500 range.
February 18, 2012, 10:23 PM
Thanks for the links the one from 2010 really helps me gauge the current market...:(Sorry to have bothered you.
Just trying to help!
I won't do that again!
February 19, 2012, 03:02 AM
There was no reason to crap on rcmodel like that, other than poor form. The value of these has (surprisingly) not changed a lot in a few years. The value does change based on finish, import date, and slide markings. He gave you a good and broad sampling of that.
If you want to post more info about the gun in question and pics of the finish and small parts, we can help better. Alterations to the small parts matter; they are very valuable. And lots of people mistake refinished ones for original finish.
February 19, 2012, 09:00 AM
Well, the first pistole ended at $406 & change with a buy it now of $595 so it didn't sell & was a mixmaster to boot.
Made in 1959, the frame and slide may be replacement parts for the purpose of rebuild, that is very late, the Argentines had already begun production on the FM Hi-Power pistols by then.
The second gun was way over priced.
The "original" box my pistol came in was a plain white top cardboard shipping box for handguns which isn't the original box 1927 Systema piatols were packed in direct from the factory so the ad is a bit misleading.
Pistol three, way overpriced and the mainspring housing is incorrect or missing the lanyard ring.
O.P s pistol should have an indented checkering mainspring housing, the Barrel will have no markings other than a matching serial on the barrel hood.
The trigger will be a milled and checkered face on a formed and forged bow without a sear relief cutout on the rear of the bow.
The rest of the visible parts appear correct except for the grips.
The original finish was a high luster black oxide.
I think $450 for my pistol as is is a fair price and the O.Ps pistol may go to $550 with an interested buyer.HTH
February 19, 2012, 09:13 AM
What are these things going for these days?
I can only comment on what I see in my area, but I have noticed that the price of these fine old pistols has skyrocketed in recent years. You used to be able to pick up a nice one for $200-$300, but almost all the ones I am seeing these days are in the $500-$750 range. I have seen some "beaters" at outrageous prices but they don't sell....you see them again and again at every gun show. The nice unaltered guns sell very quickly at $500+. Just looking at the price increases in the Blue Book of Gun Values will give you an idea of how fast the price of these guns has increased over the years. Everything depends on condition.
February 19, 2012, 10:02 AM
I sort of hate to admit this now, but 20 years ago I built a number of these guns into Target pistols and Combat Action Shooting pistols for customers who wanted such things.
It is one reason so few seem to exist in original condition today, lots were rebuilt into something else and I agree, all correct, not refinished examples can bring prices approaching original Colt commercial pistols today.
February 19, 2012, 02:57 PM
Were I looking for one, I'd willingly pay $500 for the gun in the photo.
I bought several back in the early 90's when they were going for $250-$299.
I recently saw a barely gunsmithed example for sale in the Denver area that vaporized within 30 minutes of being offered for sale. It had been refinished (bead blast & parked), springs replaced, and generic Hi-visibility (Brownell's catalog) fixed sights added.
$650 asked and gotten quickly on Armslist.
I've seen a nearer-pristine pistol (original finish in NRA Excellent condition!) swapped for $800 cash about two years ago. That particular gun had seen little duty use and probably resided in some senior officer's desk for decades.
They are fine guns (I still own a pair) and deeply appreciated for their old-school quality of manufacture and functional reliability. As eventually happens with nearly all milsurps, the prices for original (unmodified) examples are now surpassing the prices of all the specimens that were "sporterized".
They are about as close as you can get to an all-steel, Colt/Mil-Spec tolerance, no MIM/no plastic 1911A1 without spending three to four times the amount for a comparable GI gun or pre-war Government Model.
Deals can still be found, but they are rapidly leaving the ~$450 price point behind. Lately, I've seen a few really ratty ones offered at gun shows for up to $650...with no takers (for now). Nevertheless, in another year or three, they will fetch that amount. Kind of like Walther P-38s do nowadays.
I've yet to come across a Sistema that had its original (serial numbered) magazine. The odds of original magazines remaining associated with the guns were severely diminished by decades of police & military arms room issue procedures. No biggie. That's such a normal and expected occurrence that it doesn't detract from the price on Sistemas. On the other hand, having the original magazine would certainly add a few bucks in value.
Inexpensive Sistemas were sleepers for years (like CZ75s used to be)...but no more.
That's a nice gun in the photo. I'd get it and leave it just the way it is. For $500.
February 19, 2012, 05:03 PM
Thanks for the detailed responses Onmilo and Chindo18Z. I think the seller was asking too much. Like so many these days asking 90%+ collector money for a shooter. I love the look and feel of these older guns but I am not willing to pay what a lot of people are asking.
The info you provided confirmed my thinking. I would be willing to part with $500 to $600 for the right gun and IMHO this one did not end up being the right gun and he was asking more than that. I did not think the market demands what he was asking.
To rcmodel I think that your reply was a bit snarky. Maybe I took it the wrong way. If it that was not your intention I apoligize. I certainly know how to do a google search. I also know how to search each of the major auction sites for past pricing. I was looking for opinions about the state of the market for these guns which IMHO you did not provide.
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