Taurus: your verdict on Taurus auto-loaders.


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el Godfather
February 19, 2012, 04:23 AM
Dear THR:
The Taurus question keeps popping now and then. Mostly on folks with complaints and very few ever on with praise. Majority of the online boards have overall negative view about the Taurus firearms. Why?

After all the negative rant there is, why do folks keep buying Taurus and then later complain?

Do the online negative sentiments actually reflect the reality?

Have Taurus handguns improved over the years or have they further declined?

What are three things Taurus can do to get you to pick Taurus as your primary weapon with confidence?

Regards

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MikePaiN
February 19, 2012, 06:49 AM
Because of my experience with Taurus products over the years, I have no faith in their weapons.

BigN
February 19, 2012, 07:54 AM
Make one that actually works would get my vote. I'm ditto with MikePain...

oldfool
February 19, 2012, 07:57 AM
"What are three things Taurus can do to get you to pick Taurus as your primary weapon with confidence?"

TWO would do, for me (and I suspect for most)

#1 - CONSISTENCY. Their quality is so severely erratic, that it creates huge 'trust' issues, even with many of us here who own some few that we really like a lot, but have near zero faith in any but for a very very few specific models and vintage.

#2 - Customer Service that is worth something more than a bad joke. If they paid attention to #1, might not much matter, but given their erratic quality track record, it just adds insult to injury for too many folks, and angry buyers don't come back.

Neither will happen, because it costs money, and Taurus management very deliberately chooses to be the high volume low price (aka low average quality) leader, not unlike Wallyworld. They sell so much volume "no matter what" it simply doesn't matter to the CEO. 'Cheap' sells volume, always has, always will. Everybody likes cheap, not everybody likes what goes with; 'everybody' is a bigger number than 'not everybody', and Taurus knows that. Their only halfway serious competition in the low end market is probably Kel-Tec and Hi-Point, neither of which has a diverse line, neither of which much pretends to be anything but cheap... but neither of which built a very large market in South America to support manufacturing scale before targeting the North American market.

shootinxd
February 19, 2012, 08:09 AM
My MilPro is my EDC.NEVER failed to feed or fire.

Cornhusker77
February 19, 2012, 08:19 AM
I found an old Taurus PT92 that is a pure joy to shoot. Great balance, butter smooth trigger and accurate as a pistol can be. It's a little beat up, but When it shoots that good, I don't care.
I have a PT111 that is dependable, but I never got used to the Heinie sights.
Have a PT22 that has given me fits from day 1, but that little pistol and I are coming to terms.
If I could change one thing about Taurus, it would be their customer service, probably second worse I've come across with Beretta being the worst.
All in all I like their guns.

kokapelli
February 19, 2012, 09:19 AM
My only experience is with a TCP that is IMO the best of the lower priced pocket 380 pistols. Mine has been 100% with the exception of a bad magazine which Taurus replaced very quickly.

hceptj
February 19, 2012, 09:29 AM
My PT92 was a dream to shoot...smooth, never failed me. I shot a couple of Beretta 92s and couldn't tell the difference...except for the price of course.

I haven't dealt with the customer service though...seems a lot of people complain about it a lot.

CPO15
February 19, 2012, 09:34 AM
I voted "poor". Why did I buy one? I read the reviews, thought I'd be lucky and get one of the "good ones".

GMHAYESUSN
February 19, 2012, 10:09 AM
Ive owned 2 over the years and had zero problems with either a Millenium Pro 9MM and a 24/7 in .45 ACP

Spdracr39
February 19, 2012, 10:38 AM
I have a PT145. I bought it at a big box sports store and it jammed from day one. They sent it back for me no charge and it was returned in two weeks still jamming. Sent it back again and two weeks later it was fixed. It is now one of the nicest shooting guns I have ever owned. Good balance, accurate, perfect trigger pull, and an overall nice looking pistol. I don't know if I will buy another one but I am glad I stuck with this one till it was fixed correctly. Also I know the forums bash Taurus but they bash Glock too. The manager at the store was very surprised that I was having a problem because he claims they rarely get any Taurus pistols back and they sell a lot of them.

JSpear
February 19, 2012, 10:48 AM
I said about average, I've owned a couple, the pt25 I had was a jamomatic, but the pt140 I have shots really well and hasn't had any problems

wally
February 19, 2012, 12:30 PM
The PT-92 is as good as anything else on the market and a proven performer. Their others are usually innovative and on balance generally better than Kel-Tec, although since Kel-Tec makes far fewer models their customer service is usually better. Although Kel-Tec has had my RFB back three times and its still not right, longest streak without a failure is 138 rounds (still active, last time out was my first session without a failure).

skt239
February 19, 2012, 01:12 PM
Considering all the problems I had with their revolvers I couldn't possibly bring myself to trust a Taurus auto. There are many Taurus hard liners who dismiss any complaints and believe them to be part of some vast conspiracy. That, IMO is just down right silly and bordering on pathetic. It's pretty plain to see their products are hit or miss and customer service is poor at best. Why do people keep buying them? People who are new to guns usually buy based on appearance (and Taurus makes some nice looking had guns) and do their research afterwards. Couple that with a price tag that is a bit less than the S&W next to it but to the untrained eye, looks pretty much the same.

Their are also a lot of myths surrounding Taurus revolvers. Many people continue to perpetuate the myth that a Taurus revolver is internally a S&W and the only thing making it a Taurus is the roll mark. For semi autos their is a similar story that grew out of Taurus purchasing a beretta factory.

Certaindeaf
February 19, 2012, 01:29 PM
.why do folks keep buying Taurus..
It must be the price point and the soul of P.T. Barnum compelling them to do so. Never know.

Inebriated
February 19, 2012, 01:31 PM
I would ask they make prettier guns...
I know their reliability is iffy (if you get one that works, it'll serve you beautifully, but get one that doesn't, and it'll be headaches). If they could improve on quality control/consistency, and make their guns a little nicer to look at, I'd be fine.

gearhead
February 19, 2012, 01:34 PM
I have two Taurus semi-autos and one Raging Bull. I bought the semis brand new, they (a 24/7 DS Pro C .45 and a 709 Slim) have been flawless and are my EDCs. I bought the Raging Bull used, the lockup was awful but I returned it and for $20 shipping and a week and a half at Taurus it came back repaired. I have no issues with either their guns or their customer service.

MCgunner
February 19, 2012, 01:34 PM
I often wonder, I see a lot of the bashers of the brand are from the NE or east coast. Wonder if it's a union thing, seeing as S&W is up there. You know, you've heard it, Harley Davidson's best...Jap Crap...yadda yadda. Works with guns, I'll bet, too.

benzuncle
February 19, 2012, 01:36 PM
I bought a PT-145 NIB based on research on this and another forum. While there were a lot of naysayers, too many had heard from a friend of a friend of the friend that Taurus sucked. Enough actual owners of the PT-145 seemed satisfied enough for me to take the plunge. Well, I guess I got lucky. Through 1500+ rounds the PT-145has been nothing less than flawless. So, I rolled the dice and bought a second PT-145, in case they discontinued the model. After 600 rounds of flawless operation, I deem myself charmed. The newer one has replaced the first one as one of my EDC's.

mesinge2
February 19, 2012, 01:38 PM
With Taurus it is a quality control issue. Its not that they make bad guns; its just that their quality control is poor and CS is mediocre at best. I have owned 6 Taurus guns at one time (still own two), 3 had serious issues, and 3 were perfect. If you get a good one its most likely going to last but I had a 50/50 shot of getting a good one. My Taurus 44 mag Tracker's cylinder would open after firing each shot unless I used Special loads only, my Taurus PT-145 went full-auto on me and they had to replace the gun, and my Taurus m85 Ultra light's cylinder would bind until frozen. I would have to use a rubber mallet to unlock the cylinder. However, my 8-shot 357 mag model 608, my 9mm model 905 revolver, and my PT-92 (sold to fund another project) always performed above expectations.

10sport64
February 19, 2012, 01:51 PM
:) I had a Taurus 85 S for 8 years and shot many times with no problems. It would eat all ammo. The Taurus 94 is fun to shoot and built like a tank. My 24/7Pro have shot more than 3500 times with no problems and I have confidence on Taurus products although I hate their CS. The product quality is noticeable when compared to other brand names side by side. Some of the bashing on the Taurus products are passed from father to son through generations. I call it parroting, with little or no solid basis for it. A one click wikki search will give anyone the fact that Taurus and S&W had ties on sharing technology. Taurus makes from the screw to the plate in the house. It's a forge industry.
In these days to say Taurus copy others is cheap talking. Taurus has come up with very interesting concepts and products. I love my S&W's, my Tauruses, my XD's. I only comment on guns I know, shot and carried.
10sport64
GRRN, NRA and 2nd Amendment Foundation Member
Self-Defense is Nature's eldest law.
-- John Dryden, English Poet 1631-1700

Nushif
February 19, 2012, 01:55 PM
Owned two autoloaders and both have been some of the most forgiving and easy to maintain and use guns out there.
I voted Excellent.

Interestingly, I wonder what difference ti would make if there was a caveat to only vote if you've only actually owned one that's enforcable.

mesinge2
February 19, 2012, 02:03 PM
10sport64, I too think that a lot of the negative stories about Taurus guns are second or third hand. While I had issues with some of mine; I also had an issue with a SIG of mine but there was no SIG bashing thread. A gun is a machine and any machine can fail. Furthermore, my 905 and 608 have been perfect from day one.

Fact is, don't believe everything you read on the interwebz.

If you do you might start boiling your Glocks (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=643968)

Jim NE
February 19, 2012, 02:23 PM
Wow, those poll results are about as perfect a bell curve as you could find (as of right now, anyway.) Average being the most numerous assessment, and good/bad being evenly distributed.

I've only purchased one new Taurus semi-auto, so my results would be far from conclusive, but here's my experience:

Bought a new PT-22 from a LGS because I liked the tip-up barrel design idea. The initial performance of the gun was unusual compared to other new handguns I've purchased. It barely worked new out of the box, even though I tried to polish and buff the feed ramp and internals first to avoid problems. Jammed every second or third round, and had two or three light strikes every mag. Might've been an ammo related issue to SOME degree, but I tried several different brands.

Instead of sending it back for warranty, I decided to keep shooting it to see if it would smooth out. IT DID. Eventually got to the point where I'd have few or no jams or light strikes during a 100 round shooting session. But it took, by my count, close to 500 rounds to get things smoothed out to that point. I think keepin it clean is important, too.

Last time I shot the gun (about 70 or 80 rounds) I think I had 2 light strikes, but they don't bother me so much now, as a second pull of the trigger sets off the round 95% of the time. (It's DAO.) That makes it, practically speaking, a more-or-less reliable gun, since I don't see a short barrelled .22 as a defense gun, or at least a primary defense gun.

Do I like the gun? Actually, yes...it truly is fun to shoot and surprisingly accurate for it's size. Also looks really good (for the price.)

But does my experience with this one Taurus make me want to buy another? Not exactly.

Would I feel confident buying a Taurus that was intended for primary defense instead of plinking? Not exactly and then some.

True, the gun isn't expensive, but my S&W 22A was FAR more reliable with a wider range of ammo brands, and it cost less than the PT-22. To be fair, I've read that the Beretta .22 (the gun that the PT-22 is based on) has it's share of complaints about reliability, as well. ALSO, I've had both a new Smith and Wesson 9mm and a new Ruger 9mm fail on me recently, too, so why should I pick on the Taurus?

But I'm also kind of surprised that so many Taurus guns are sold, given the 50/50 internet opinions about them. They ARE nice looking guns at an affordable price, and their marketting is extensive, so I guess that has a lot to do with it.

I gave it an "average" rating.

PONTIACDM
February 19, 2012, 02:55 PM
My friend many years ago received a Taurus Millenium .380. The trigger took an act of God to pull. There's no way there wasn't something wrong with it. It wasn't just a heavy trigger. A friend who was a corrections officer at the time had a 92sf (9mm I think). He couldn't fire a full magazine without at least 2 failures. I was at the range and the guy beside me had a Tuarus 45 acp. It was jamming every 2 to 3 shots. I asked him what he was shooting. He said it was a Taurus 45, didn't say what model. I was there for these three experiences. They range over a 10 year period. I have never been beside someone not having problems with a semi auto Taurus. So for me from what I have personally seen. I have to steer clear of them.That being said I have a Taurus model 65 .357 that I love and have had zero problems out of. I love the design of Taurus revolvers. Until I quit reading about the failures people are having, I won't buy one. There's no excuse for so many people having to send new guns in for repair. Doesn't matter how good they are about repairing them. They shouldn't have to send them in the first place. My opinion only on the matter.

10sport64
February 19, 2012, 03:01 PM
Mesinge2, You hit the nail in the head my friend. It would be great if the CS do it's part. It took me 10 Months to get a single recoil spring from Taurus. Now I have 3 of them. I am in pretty good shape years to come with my 24/7Pro, one of the best grip and shooting 9 mm I've ever known.

10sport64
February 19, 2012, 03:06 PM
See how interesting is sahring about guns and experience? All the problems mentioned above with the TCP 380 I had with the Ruger LCP. One trip to Ruger, ramp polishing and nothing good came out of it. My Keltec shoots like a charm with no malfunctions. Got lucky?

ritepath
February 19, 2012, 04:45 PM
I have a gen 3 pt145 that won't shoot 3 times without jamming...bad magazines I suppose since it's always a nosedive into the front of the mag. I bought a 24/7 mag with the same results. It now sits in my safe clean and pretty...I love the size and how well it shoots.

Anyone have any experience with the pt845? I'd get one of those if I could trade the 145...that is if it's more reliable.

alaskanativeson
February 19, 2012, 05:05 PM
I didn't vote because "Other - Some are great, others are crap" wasn't a choice. I'm with oldfool here:

...#1 - CONSISTENCY. Their quality is so severely erratic, that it creates huge 'trust' issues, even with many of us here who own some few that we really like a lot, but have near zero faith in any but for a very very few specific models and vintage.

#2 - Customer Service that is worth something more than a bad joke. If they paid attention to #1, might not much matter, but given their erratic quality track record, it just adds insult to injury for too many folks, and angry buyers don't come back...

Taurus seems to be the lottery of handguns. If you get a really good one, it can border on great. If not, you could do the zig-zag of customer service exchanges, or even worse, you could send it to Taurus and have it sit on a shelf in the shop for 179 years. They can certainly make good guns, but I have two words for management at Taurus:

QUALITY. CONTROL.

That means you control the quality of product that goes out your doors. It's not hard to do, but it does need quality people.

griz1
February 19, 2012, 09:07 PM
Had a PT22 that jammed alot and the frame cracked in two places shooting
regular velocity ammo. I will never buy another firearm from this company.

skt239
February 19, 2012, 09:15 PM
I often wonder, I see a lot of the bashers of the brand are from the NE or east coast. Wonder if it's a union thing, seeing as S&W is up there. You know, you've heard it, Harley Davidson's best...Jap Crap...yadda yadda. Works with guns, I'll bet, too.

This by far is the most priceless of the conspiracy theory's. Thanks for making my evening.

el Godfather
February 20, 2012, 09:14 AM
I don't know how a certain geographical region can be biased to a particular brand of weapons.

Tennessee Ned
February 20, 2012, 09:57 AM
I have a 99af that's been a good one but it's the only Taurus I have experience with. I've had it for 20-something years and never any problems.

Their new stuff looks good and they market it well. They seem to be priced affordably too. I don't think I'd have a problem buying another even though I've heard the horror stories about their customer service and quality.

Blackponycar00
February 20, 2012, 10:02 AM
I only have experience with one Taurus, my 24/7 Pro C DS .40. Owned for approximately 1 year, almost 1500 rounds of various ammo, all have fed, fired, and ejected as they are supposed to. This firearm has proven itself reliable for me, and is currently my EDC weapon.

jim243
February 20, 2012, 11:57 AM
I have had three Taurus pistols and all worked great and functioned as they should. I did sell two of them because of a CZ 75 purchase. But there was nothing wrong with any of them. Their customer service does seem a bit of a problem, but I think it's because of the number of guns (LOTS) they sell. For the price you get a functional pistol that shoots very well, but it is up to you to check the gun out BEFORE you purchase. Would I buy another, YES.

Jim

Myles
February 20, 2012, 02:48 PM
I have a PT92 with more than 30,000 rounds through it. My only experience with their CS was just fine. I once had a Taurus 66 .357 and regret selling it. I cannot comment on newer models they have produced.


Their are also a lot of myths surrounding Taurus revolvers. Many people continue to perpetuate the myth that a Taurus revolver is internally a S&W and the only thing making it a Taurus is the roll mark. For semi autos their is a similar story that grew out of Taurus purchasing a beretta factory.

That's not a myth.

Smith & Wesson had been purchased by a conglomerate named Bangor Punta. In 1970, Bangor Punta also purchased 54% of Taurus. Thus, the two companies became "sisters". Smith & Wesson never owned Taurus. They were both independent companies. However, during the next seven years, a great deal of technology and methodology was passed between the two. What may come as a surprise to some is that more of what was "right" in Porto Alegre was sent to Springfield than was sent from Springfield to south of the equator.

Beretta had won a huge contract in 1974 to produce small arms for the army of Brazil. Part of the deal was that Beretta construct a Brazilian factory and use Brazilian labor. This they did, in the southwestern coastal city of Sao Paulo. When the contract ran out in 1980, Beretta sold the plant, literally "lock, stock and barrel," to Taurus. Taurus now owned everything that once belonged to Beretta, including drawings, tooling, machinery, and a very experienced work force. Taurus was in the pistol business, and immediately sought to improve on the Beretta design, resulting in the popular and acclaimed Taurus PT-92 and PT-99 9mm pistols.

el Godfather
February 20, 2012, 04:59 PM
Very evenly distributed poll here.

I have got to say that as much as I don't like Taurus, everytime they come out with something new and cheap- its tempting, but after 3 failed 24/7s I rather not venture in Taurus territory again.

hifirock57
February 20, 2012, 06:01 PM
I often wonder, I see a lot of the bashers of the brand are from the NE or east coast. Wonder if it's a union thing, seeing as S&W is up there. You know, you've heard it, Harley Davidson's best...Jap Crap...yadda yadda. Works with guns, I'll bet, too.
I own a Japanese sportbike, live in the southwest, and I hate Taurus too :P

spanishjames
February 20, 2012, 06:54 PM
My Taurus PT92 is rock solid. I would absolutely trust it with my life. I've also fired a PT22 which is lacking in finish quality ($200.00 new), but worked fine.

It comes down to relativity. Taurus can't hold a candle to the older S&W relovers, but most of the nay-sayers are doing just that, comparing the two. There's no comparison. That doesn't make Taurus products trash. It makes it apples to oranges.

carbuncle
February 20, 2012, 09:06 PM
I got lucky with the 85 I had about a decade ago, but with that being said I'm not rolling the dice again.

alaskanativeson
February 20, 2012, 09:30 PM
Earlier I said Taurus was like a handgun lottery, and I think it's true. However, I've so far chosen winning picks. I've had a snub nose .38 model 85 and it was great. I have 2 model 941s in .22 magnum and they're among my favorite guns. My stainless model 71 pump .22 mag is also a winner. That said, I've shot a fellow teacher's PT145 that didn't like a single brand of ammo. My cousin had a model 85 that didn't like to rotate the cylinder, and my brother had a pump 22 that felt like it was made with parts from Grendel's throw away pile. However, one of my Principals had a 1911 that was just cherry, and I've known others who've had good success. So I stand by my assertion, Taurus is like China: Capable of greatness, but SERIOUSLY lacking in consistency. Quality control isn't all that hard to do, I used to be a QC inspector at a hard drive manufacturing company in Longmont, CO. You just need the commitment to doing it.

10sport64
February 21, 2012, 07:24 AM
:cool:Right on Myles!

JR47
February 21, 2012, 05:08 PM
If it took ten years to find three problem Taurus semis, I'd say that isn't too bad. I own a dozen various Taurus handguns, some for 25+ years now. NONE of them has failed, and my PT92 is approaching 25K rounds, on the original locking block.

Then again, I don't consider the fact that I may have to drift a sight a "malfunction".

I have small and medium frame revolvers, and a plethora of various semi-auto models. I use them in teaching, and also carry them for CCW. I even have one of those "terrible" PT22s. Oddly enough, I keep it clean, and feed it CCI Mini-Mag, and it's gone through most of a case so far, and is in one functional piece.

I've actually had much worse service from S&W, Sig, HK, and Colt. I bought a new gun from each of these manufacturers, and not inexpensive models. The S&W failed on the first shot. The Sig failed between 50-75 rounds, and the HK fired groups like a Cylinder bored 12 ga. The Colt had a rear sight that you could watch move as you fired it. None of this was evident when inspecting the guns in the shop. So, why is it that people seem to think that it's somehow acceptable for old line manufacturers to produce such spotty QC, but Taurus is bad for the same thing?

As terrible as it might seem, there is an entire world of shooters using Taurus handguns that have never had a problem. There are many who simply aren't interested in the latest "I saw, or my friend......, or the guy at the gun shop said......" Internet Lore. It's like buying a car and listening to the fan-boys tales of woe about your choice.

In the 1970s and 1980s, people were bemoaning the "terrible" QC of S&W. They felt that the guns were over-priced, over-hyped, and should have been sent over there. Now, posters wax poetic over the guns S&W produced back then.

Yeah......OK.......that pretty much says it all to me. :)

thefamcnaj
February 21, 2012, 05:24 PM
I went with "pathetic". I've never had any luck with Taurus auto loaders. Safe to say I'm done with the Taurus brand. The two Taurus pistols I gave a try were junk. Jammomattics and a ton of ftf/fte.
One of my shooting had terrible luck with pt slim line.

kokapelli
February 21, 2012, 07:06 PM
Count me as one of the lucky ones. My TCP has been excellent.

glove
February 21, 2012, 07:55 PM
My PT-140 Mil. Pro. 2 gen. has been 100% from day one. Now I want a PT111. :)

Tex4426
February 21, 2012, 08:22 PM
The older ones are crap...but there under new managment as of sometme in the last few years and are now a decent gun at a decent price...this was from a reliable source not myself

Nushif
February 21, 2012, 09:16 PM
The older ones are crap...but there under new managment as of sometme in the last few years and are now a decent gun at a decent price...this was from a reliable source not myself

Which is .... ?

Tex4426
February 21, 2012, 09:24 PM
Idk when the new person took over...that's just what I was told by a reputable gun dealer...didn't ask more questions cuz that's not what I was there to buy

jbr
February 21, 2012, 09:36 PM
Absolutely love my model 66. Great shotter, great trigger. Love my pt738. Also a great shooter for a mouse gun. My pt 709 is a decent shooter but i have had some issues with it jamming. Mostly failed extraction leading to next round jamming under the empty casing - hard jam to clear. I had an accident with my trigger finger and have not been able to shoot the 709 since it came back from the 2nd repair - a friend shot it and it did fine for the 50 or so rounds he put thru it. I must say - best customer service i've ever experienced with any product. They picked it up the next morning after i called - one week later i got it back - Both times!

Tomcat47
February 21, 2012, 10:00 PM
Excellent: It has my full confidence.
Good: Not quite there yet, but above average.
Average: Nothing special at all.

Being an avid Taurus fan and owning many of their firearms, I feel your top questions leave a void!

I trust and have confidence in my PT1911 as any other entry level 1911
I trust and have confidence in my PT92 as Well as My Beretta 92 counterparts!
I trust and have confidence in my 608 357 as well as my S&W 29
I trust and have confidence in my 85 UL and 905 as much as or more than my S&W 36

Reality is my PT1911 is not a Series 70 or a Wilson Combat Elite and there are similar comparisons to all mentioned I am sure.

So I can not say average, because I think "nothing special" is demeaning..
So I can not say Good, because in some they are there! proven reliable, and above average

And last but not least....Excellent....Although I trust them and believe them very reliable...Excellent is reserved for the likes of a series 70 or Wilson Combat, and maybe a Kimber

I like my Taurus firearms, but lets be practical.

weregunner
February 21, 2012, 10:13 PM
They've got my full confidence.
Two PT111 Mil Pros
One PT709
Two PT-22s
One PT732

All of these are totally reliable and are carry guns of one sort or another.

There are thousands of Taurus owners who for years have relied on these to save their lives or those of others. The ones at the Taurus forum do rely on them. There are active military, active LEOs, civilians, and retired LEOs and military who own and continue to rely on Taurus pistols, and with good thought out reason, to protect them and their loved ones.

Mas Ayoob chronicles and Chuck Karwan, and many others who are credentialed been there and done that types who documented such happenings. As far back as the1980s. They even recommended Taurus for those on a budget who had to buy their own guns.

PT92s come to mind. It's a bread and butter cornerstone of Taurus for many decades know.

So yes. I will continue to rely on the guns.

weregunner
February 21, 2012, 10:14 PM
Am I taking it that no one has anything better to do than start another general ineffective thread about Taurus overall?

skt239
February 21, 2012, 10:37 PM
One indicator of Taurus quality is the fact that not a single American law enforcement agency or military branch, unit, ect. issues or uses Taurus Autos.

S&W
Glock
Sig
Beretta
Kimber
Springfield
Ruger
Colt


Those are just some of the major manufactures (and I'm probably leaving some out) who's guns are or have been used in some capacity or issued to American Law Enforcement/military. The only time I've ever seen an armed "professional" in the U.S. using a Taurus was at the DMV on a security guard and it was a older revolver.

I'm not saying that I require military grade arms but it adds value to my purchase when I know the manufacture is a trusted one. The fact that no one, save a few third world countries use or issue Taurus handguns speaks volumes, IMO. For those that don't think that's a practical argument, I also can't think of a single competitor that uses Taurus either. Just my .02 cents.

Hypnogator
February 21, 2012, 11:24 PM
Based on my stainless PT-145 Millennium Pro, they're excellent weapons. I would use caution in purchasing another one, only because many have reported problems with them.

Tomcat47
February 21, 2012, 11:25 PM
However a lot of the millenium and others are carried as back up weapons for LEO's

Just say'n......:)

Tomcat47
February 21, 2012, 11:37 PM
I would say a PT 1911 is an Excellent 1911 under $700.00 ....:D

Tex4426
February 21, 2012, 11:45 PM
just because the military doesn't use doesnt mean it aint worth owning...yes the stuff the military uses has to take a beating but i doubt we are going to be barring our civilian guns in sand/mud or walking through water with them submerged or whatever other test they perform on firearms...now if your needing a service weapon by all means spent the extra 2-300 bucks...but for a fun shooter or a carry gun save the extra 2-300 bucks...if glock wasnt used by the military then they wouldnt have any hype because ther fugly as hell,,,but still a great weapon

weregunner
February 22, 2012, 12:23 AM
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/pt92-other-taurus-pistols/53542-taurus-p92-armies-polic-forces-use.html
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/pt92-other-taurus-pistols/340-taurus-99v-beretta-92-a.html
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/pt92-other-taurus-pistols/30037-comparing-beretta-taurus-92s.html

As to does the military or police use Taurus there's a surprise in the links.

weregunner
February 22, 2012, 12:47 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=549351
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=541081
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=526848
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=496906&highlight=Taurus+PT92

And the rest of the story.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=620370
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=235622

skt239
February 22, 2012, 06:34 AM
However a lot of the millenium and others are carried as back up weapons for LEO's

Just say'n......:)

Do you have any idea which state approves Taurus as a back up for their officers? I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious. I do remember reading the same thing but that was on the Taurus website. However, Taurus also said that the judge was carried by actual Judges under their robes. That, as we all know, is clearly not true, at least in America.

Weregunner, what am I seeing in all those links? I did see mention of he Brazilian police and Special Forces using Taurus but I was talking about American law enforcement / military. Maybe I missed it, it's a lot to read. Perhaps you can just quote or summarize whatever it is the links were supposed to prove? I'll take your word for it :)

Thanks.

The Old Redneck
February 22, 2012, 07:05 AM
I have had extremely good results with Taurus for years both with revolvers and semi autos. Their 1911's have been flawless in every way in 45 and 9mm. Several of their other semi-autos have functioned with no problems. Can not say that for some other brands.

el Godfather
February 22, 2012, 09:46 AM
Contrary to prevailing ideas Taurus has some strong following as many have thus far voted Excellent.

Ruger Redhawk
February 22, 2012, 03:06 PM
I have never owned a Taurus semi auto so I won't comment on them. My one and only experience with Taurus was a M85 Ultra lite. I believe that's what it was. I know it was a 38 spl snubbie. I bought it brand new for the wife as her carry gun. I took her to the range. She shot the cylinder full of rounds and handed it back to me. Then I noticed that on 3 of the chambers the cylinder would not lock. I had the hammer back and it would still rotate. I took it back to the dealer I got it from. He sent it to Taurus. It was back in a timely manor. I then traded it in on a S&W M637. For those of you that are happy with your Taurus's I'm happy for you. I will never buy another one.

ExTank
February 22, 2012, 06:37 PM
I voted excellent. I've had 2 Taurus autos, a PT99 some years ago that I traded 'cause I was bored with it (which I now regret) and a PT92 I recently aquired for a very good price, that the/a previous owner had installed adjustable sights on.

Both guns were/are shooters.

Sneed
February 22, 2012, 10:44 PM
I have a gen 3 pt145 that won't shoot 3 times without jamming...bad magazines I suppose since it's always a nosedive into the front of the mag. I bought a 24/7 mag with the same results. It now sits in my safe clean and pretty...I love the size and how well it shoots.

Anyone have any experience with the pt845? I'd get one of those if I could trade the 145...that is if it's more reliable.
I have several hundred rounds through mine with no problems at all so far. Ammo includes ball and hollow points through two mags. I've also never had a problem with a PT25, 738, 44 and 608. I don't doubt the problems reported by others but I've had none. I do keep my guns extremely clean and lubricated and that might matter. I suppose luck doesn't hurt either. Of all the guns I've owned only a Sig 380 had to be replaced by the factory.

ChefJeff1
February 22, 2012, 11:29 PM
I shot a friends Taurus 1911 which he had just bought brand new. On my first shot, the extractor or ejector broke and it became a single shot. I handed it back to him. Sorry. Brand new gun. I realize all things can break but that was just lame.

el Godfather
February 23, 2012, 03:59 AM
TOMCAT.....
Kindly list the LEAs that have started using Taurus as per your claim. As far I know NONE. Probably not even in Brazil, but who knows.

kmbrman
February 23, 2012, 11:56 AM
I've had 2 Taurus pistols . One a Model 605 2'' snub .357 ,and a PT92 9mm. Both were excellent in every way. Can't say about other models.

10sport64
February 23, 2012, 01:06 PM
It all comes to this......Taurus haters:banghead: ........Taurus lovers:D.
The only think I want to bring back to the table is: Do not comment on something you never touched it. Parroting is extra weight when it comes to sharing experiences. There are national makers with poor technology, finish and performance that don't face the criticism Taurus does it. To name just one: Charter revolvers. Put them side by side and do it yourself. But there will be always someone saying "oh man, I love that gun". I had two S&W's with the same problem. One was a 686 and the other is my 642. The screws would come lose after some range time. For the price I paid on the 686 this shouldn't happen. But it did. Am I going to say Smith's are just average guns because of that? Well, my Taurus 85 had more than 3,000 rounds and I did not have a single problem. That gun is still in the family. Thank God everybody here loves guns!

krupparms
February 23, 2012, 08:02 PM
When Taurus started makeing auto pistols their quality went down &has stayed hit or miss since! If that were not true, this thread would not be here. Or the many others that pop up! The CO. willnot get a good reputation back until the consistently is there. Also C.S. needs to be changed w /new head of dept. ! We can talk about it, but the truth is until Taurus decides to make good gun's again anyone that can read or hears that Taurus turns out any bad guns will stop and think! Am I getting a bad gun? Will I have to get it fixed? Will I have problems with C.S.? Will they fix my NIB gun? How many times will I have to send it back? Until then I rate Hi -Point a better Co. At least it go's bang when you pull the trigger! Just my opinion. :)

weregunner
February 24, 2012, 01:54 AM
Just because this thread is here means nothing and that makes certain statements,blanket at that, irrelevant.

Where is the overriding proof? You said it then present it! I can go to these archives to prove the blanket statement is false. Also can go to TFL archives and Taurus Armed.net archives for that.

And you have what?

weregunner
February 24, 2012, 01:56 AM
Oh,yes. I have sources from the shooting culture, Mas AYoob,Chuck Karwan, Stephen A.Camp (may he rest in peace), and many others in the know who would say things are the other way.

That's in the archives,too.

weregunner
February 24, 2012, 01:59 AM
Even the poll says different.

If you did not have Taurus experience then how would you know? That also make any posts suspect.

Getting anecdotal evidence is irrelevant, so is second hand or other "data" like it is irrelevant.

weregunner
February 24, 2012, 02:02 AM
If there is a guy here at this forum who claims to have had 7 bad Taurus(he never followed commons sense gun inpsection rules before hand that would have been used with commons sense) he is invalid.

He got taken to to task at Rimfire Central some time ago and continues to try and foist his lies on others of the "truth".

weregunner
February 24, 2012, 02:46 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=644396
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=208529

In the firsr link above is the proof that the militaries of many different origins have and do use Taurus. That includes Israel.

Stephen Camp wrote the last post for the last link.

weregunner
February 24, 2012, 03:38 AM
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-armed-news/60557-taurus-international-mfg-inc-factory-tour.html

skt239
February 24, 2012, 06:07 AM
Weregunner, you remind me a lot of a guy who used to frequent this forum by the name of Quicksdraw. I believe he was a moderator over at the Taurus forum.

doubleh
February 24, 2012, 10:26 AM
I voted "excellent' as the four I own are. Never had a minute's problem with any of them.

el Godfather
February 24, 2012, 03:15 PM
Weregunner......the first link you posted is in fact of this very thread, and the second link well is just proof of how much don't like Taurus.

There are no militaries using Taurus.

el Godfather
February 24, 2012, 03:16 PM
Skt239..... I believe you are right. Just look at the poll results here and compare them elsewhere. Seems like some is is promoting poll elsewhere :)

Jaymo
February 24, 2012, 08:56 PM
I voted excellent. I've owned at least 10 Taurus handguns since 1991. 3 have been autoloaders (PT99 and PT111 Milennium) The rest were .38, .357, .44 special, .44 mag and .45/.410 revolvers.
I haven't had a single failure with any of them, except for one limp wrist jam that occurred with my Milennium when my friend's 8 year old son shot it. The gun hadn't been cleaned or lubed in 5 years at the time and was full of powder fouling and pocket lint.
We shot 200 rounds through it that day, with 199 of them working perfectly.
10 guns. Thousands upon thousands of rounds fired. One jam that was due to operator error combined with a gun that was really dirty.
I can't complain.

I rented a PT92 at the range once, when I neglected to bring my PT99 with me.
It was a jam o matic from the first shot.
I pulled the slide and found the rails were bone dry and filthy. The employees hadn't been cleaning and lubing it at all.
I lubed the rails with Break Free and didn't have a single failure.
Both cases were the fault of the owners/operators, not the guns.

Yup, them Tauruses are garbage, youse guys.
Youse need to buy some union built guns.
Having been a UAW member, I wouldn't purchase ANY union made product.

redclay
February 24, 2012, 08:57 PM
I have always been a revolver guy. Last year the 1911 bug bit me. I got to shopping around and handled a lot of pistols bought a pt1911. It has over 5000 rounds thru it and has never hiccuped not once. It is still tight and shots like a dream. I have allowed a few LEO's to shoot it at the range and they have been impressed. This is the only 1911 I have ever shot so I can't compare it to other brands but I will when I buy my next 1911. Mine is a fine weapon.

Jaymo
February 24, 2012, 09:12 PM
I had an AMT 1911 and it was unreliable to the extreme until I stoned the frame/slide rails.
I've been thinking about getting a PT1911. I was in an LGS today and handled the PT1911 and the commander sized ATI 1911 and was surprised at how smooth and tight the ATI was. The finish isn't anything great but the fit was excellent. It was actually smoother than the PT1911. The only things it gave up to the Taurus were an ambi, a little lighter trigger pull, and possibly a one piece guide rod.
I'm seriously thinking about getting the ATI.

el Godfather
February 24, 2012, 09:17 PM
On the other hand I had a PT1911 and got rid of it. I bought that and Dan Vbob together. Pt1911 was no match in any department. It had very few jams but the tolerance got loser by each box of ammo, hence the terrible accuracy. Out it went, Dan Vbob on other hand got better with each box of ammo.

JR47
February 24, 2012, 09:26 PM
There are no militaries using Taurus.

That means what? There are no militarys using the S&W M&P, or the FNP, or any of the FN series of handguns, either. There are zero military forces issued any revolvers. So what? I don't believe that Sig is the primary issue of any military, either. Even the Swiss have stopped using them. Does that, somehow, mean that S&W, FN, Sig, Colt, and any revolver, is no good?

Listening to the reports here, we see an awful lot of "a friend's gun", or "the gun failed, was returned in a timely manner, worked fine, but was traded for". Gosh, how does that make an entire brand bad? After all, when it's a Kimber, HK, S&W, or Sig that has a problem, all you hear is "send it back, they'll make it right". Shouldn't they be getting rid of them? After all, "you can't trust it".

As Taurus sells more guns here than S&W, Sig, HK, FN, and many other brands, statistics will prove that there will be more failures, but, as a percentage, they are better built than some. Heard of any Taurus recalls, or, as Glock puts it,:) "improvements", of late?

Those who don't own a Taurus should simply refrain from passing Internet Commando Myths along.:)

DesertFox
February 24, 2012, 09:33 PM
Have owned plenty of Taurus here. The only 2 that failed were original pt22. I sent one back to them along with with a small check and got a Model 94 4" in return. It runs fine to this day. The 2nd pt22 that failed got replaced with a Model 44 8 3/8" 44 Mag that has been a wonderful scoped hunting handgun.

The only semi-auto I still have is a PT92C as I sold off several others when I moved on to 10mm. But I'm thinking real hard about a PT1911 in 38 Super...

oldfool
February 24, 2012, 11:42 PM
we see an awful lot of "a friend's gun", or "the gun failed, was returned in a timely manner, worked fine, but was traded for"
Valid enough statement within narrow enough context, JR, it is

Yet in every post I have seen here yet (including this one)..
Both sides of the same too frequent topic are reporting 1st person experiences and known factual stories of owners they know personally, and have valid reason to believe.
Do a post count, both pro and con, eliminating all posts which do not reference real world very believable examples.
and do trash the count of "brand X sucks" and "brand X is wonderful", with nothing to support opinion but "internet BS"; there will ample counts on both sides left to count, just as there are in this thread.

No lack of internet BS on any/all topics, it really is just internet after all.

But if the "fair and balanced counts" don't easily beat 50% pro on a non-branded forum, by a large margin, that's not rumor, or elitism, or children at play, or theory, not on THR. Anything less than way over 50/50 by a large margin is a poor bet for interested buyers, especially for those who have not yet been there and done that. If you sometimes have to gamble on HIGH VOLUME/ LOW PRICE Wallyworld quality, do it; I sometimes do it, but with no false expectations in mind, and no faith in warranty.

Taurus has made some fine handguns. I own three of them.
Couple more they make right now, I would buy, if I "needed" yet another handgun at less than S&W, Ruger, or Sig pricing.

But I don't figure my odds with today's Taurus branded any better than Hi-Point or Kel-Tec or Heritage (maybe not as good), not even by doing such as the revolver checkout sticky posted in this sub-forum, because it just don't count all that much until you run at least a few hundred rounds through it. The checkout routine ought be obvious enough to anybody but a newbie, that you will know ain't looking at a Freedom Arms; but unless you are brain dead, you don't expect a free ride on that. A 'test drive it for 10 minutes around the block' don't much count; ask 100 million car buyers. Which is why people pose questions and seek opinions from those on forums about how it worked out for them.

Color me lucky. I never once yet bought any firearm (17 brands, but only because I don't have the wherewithal to own and enjoy 170 brands), that needed to be sent back to the manufacturer for any reason. But when thinking about what might be #18, I like to hear both sides, all sides; the glossy sales brochure I can find for free on the internet.
Lifetime Warranty I don't get real excited about. 'Requires warranty work' tends to make me unhappy, go figure. I don't much like it even if free-of-charge, with smile to go with.

"Fair challenge" - ???
google up a THR Taurus brand war on the search function. Show me an example of one that yielded better than 50/50 high satisfaction. (Hey this one might be "it"; I did not do a fair count here, but Taurus is actually doing pretty well compare to most. If not here, any other non-branded gun forum.

PS
no Taurus doesn't do recalls, not any I remember
and just about every other gun maker does
might be they don't need to.. might be they just don't give a damn

Me, I don't care what brand gun it is, if I buy it NIB, and have to return it on real low round count, I need to believe there is a fair reason to think I was just gosh awful unlucky. Having already used up my share of good luck, not much interested in breaking a long win streak.

If your Taurus handguns are a good as my few are, then we both have good reason to be happy for one another.
Not everybody has our reasons, and too many have good reasons to not be happy.
but I do not care what combat soldiers or LEOs use, here or elsewhere; I like lever action carbines and six shooters; they mostly do not, for fair enough reasons of their own
(me, Internet yes, Commando, no... BS maybe) ;)

oldfool
February 25, 2012, 12:27 AM
by the way... if OP question still counts

I own a Taurus 99 bought NIB 20-30 years ago, something like, real nice
I think it is at least as good as Beretta's 92s and I think the Beretta 9mms are real good
My good buddy (son-in-law) bought a 92 Taurus just about 3 years ago, because he liked my 99 so much, and it's a good one
Only broke on him once, and it was a real cheap and easy home fix
I lent him my 99 until he got his part in from Numrich on-line, cheap

but Taurus will have to belly up to the bar and pay more attention to consistency and quality than they do now (vs volume and price), before I recommend T "brand" for across the board expectations of reliability and quality

My buddy later bought a Beretta 92, and thinks it's a tad better, though not by much
Not sure I agree that it is better, though neither likely has more than much over a thousand round count
Which pretty much qualifies as no-count Internet Commando Myth
(those two be his guns, not mine, even if I have shot 'em all side by side, all three)

but it's after midnight, so I am hanging it up, 'cause nothing good happens in public after midnight, including internet forums !

be well, flame on or flame off, shoot as best you can

el Godfather
February 25, 2012, 02:29 AM
JR47
FN Colt Sig Sauer Glock are used by vaiours units of militaries in different parts of the world.
It shows that a trained and skill body who is in business of using firearms has placed its confidence in a particular design.

The comment was to answer someone else's comment to who said Taurus is being used in Military.

They are not there yet.

JR47
February 25, 2012, 04:00 PM
no Taurus doesn't do recalls, not any I remember
and just about every other gun maker does

Neither has Glock. Does that mean that they are the same?

FN Colt Sig Sauer Glock are used by vaiours units of militaries in different parts of the world.
It shows that a trained and skill body who is in business of using firearms has placed its confidence in a particular design.

Would you care to list some of those units? FYI, I didn't mention Glock in my post, as they are the Austrian Army issue gun.

Various units of the Brazilian Army, and Police are today using the Taurus handguns. Look on Taurus.Armed for pictures posted by Brazilian LEOs. There are also a bunch of Police trade-in Taurus Model 82 revolvers at J&G, and mentioned here on THR. If they are Police trade-ins, doesn't that mean that they were used by the Police? The Singaporean Police and Military also use Taurus firearms. The Israeli Army issued some, as well. I imagine that this would also qualify Taurus as a gun that "a trained and skilled body in the business of using firearms has placed it's confidence in a particular design."

Then again, the US Army Tank Command ordered multiple thousands of Ruger P95 pistols for the Afghan national Army. Using your guideline here, that makes the P95 a qualified military pistol, right?

Internet Boards aren't exactly what I'd use for information on a particular brand of firearm. Kimber does really poorly on most, including THR. Yet, they are still recommended.

I mentioned on another post that I went to the LGS this morning. While there the gunsmith showed me three S&W revolvers. He said that they were 50% of his latest order, and that they were useless, as the timing was crap. He said that the others were "barely better", but were In-spec enough to sell. Now, I was allowed to look at them, and they were extremely late in locking up. This same store has a shelf full of Taurus handguns. They all passed the man's inspection. He told me that it had been a while since he'd seen a Taurus with serious problems, but that he'd sent it right back. He had the same poor opinion of Charter Arms, and said that he had recently begun to pay closer attention to Ruger because of problems.

Knowing the history of "friends guns" on the Internet, I almost automatically ignore any old wives tales involving that myth. I also find it difficult to believe the people who say that they've bought a half-dozen of any brand, and all were bad. I've seen the exact same tale of woe from a single poster on a half-dozen Boards. The funny part is that the story changes as points of discrepancy are called out. New Forum, better story.

I have a PT85HC that I bought less than six months ago. It is flawless with any and all ammo that I've tried. It looks good, shoots accurately, and is reliable. That's more than I can say about the P229 DAK that I purchased in March of 2011. Different gun than the cracked slide edition, I wanted to have a DAK in my collection. It has had teething problems with FTF and FTE since the first magazine. A trip to Exeter solved most, and a little break-in solved the rest. So, as this is my SECOND problem SIG, should I go from Board to Board, bashing Sig? I mean, after listening to the convoluted logic here, I should NEVER trust it.

Do you find it at all amusing that S&W revolvers built in the 1970-1990 period have become the Holy Grail? After all, back then, everyone was busily bemoaning how terrible their QC had become. Remember when Colt was considered a failed gun? Today, that same era's pistols are, again, considered great. I guess that these memories make me a little suspicious of many of today's claims of "good and bad" guns.:)

dirtengineer
February 25, 2012, 04:15 PM
I am three for three for positive experiences with Taurus pistols. Two autoloaders and one revolver. Did sent my PT-99 back because of a broken sight. They fixed it and replaced my recoil spring and then sent it back. I am fully satisfied and would buy another.

roadliner
February 25, 2012, 05:48 PM
I'm also three for three. A 6" stainless 44 special, an OSS 45 and my EDC PT145. Just started shooting their auto's after decades of shooting and collecting firearms and haven't had a problem with reliability or fit/finish.

oldfool
February 26, 2012, 06:29 AM
"Neither has Glock. Does that mean that they are the same?"

nahhh... nobody drinks as much kool-aid as the Glocksters do, they be in a class all by themselves ;)
(who else would ever drive a bulldozer over their own gun on purpose)

weregunner
February 26, 2012, 06:45 AM
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/international/23817-taurus-revolvers-used-south-american-police-military.html

Try that one folks

weregunner
February 26, 2012, 06:52 AM
Quote from another thread:

.

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07-27-2011 01:57 AM#14




jwc007




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PT92's and all variants are on the approved lists of many USA Police Agencies that do not issue a standard handgun. I know of two Police Officers that currently carry a PT92 as their primary duty handgun. Also, the PT92 is standard issue for some Philippine Military and Police agencies.


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07-27-2011 11:00 AM#15




redjeep




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A few years ago I was in an army surplus store in Fort Wayne , Indiana. In the back they had tons of manuals on guns that our armed forces used and there must have been 500 or more manuals on the Taurus 92 model. I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. Our military must have considered the Taurus around the time they were looking at the Berretta and maybe someone jumped the gun ( no pun intended, well maybe) on printing field manuals for them.














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07-27-2011 03:47 PM#16




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Large Military and Police Orders usually REQUIRE that the guns be manufactured in the country using them. Note that Beretta built in Accokeek, Md. after they received the bid. Glock is assembled in Smyrna, Ga. Sig located a plant in New England before they became American owned. FN is also in the same boat. They received a bid award for M4 barrels, and are now in the Carolinas.

Taurus has, so far, successfully fought off building the majority of it's guns outside of Brazil, and military and police orders suffer because of that. Many Brazilian LEOs carry Taurus weapons. Same with several sections of the Brazilian military. There have been small orders to police in the Middle East, Africa, and other South American countries.

End of quote.

So there are actual reasons why Taurus is not in the police and military markets until know. That is in large numbers.
It's also apparent from the LEOs who've been there and done that that Taurus are in American police holsters and being used as backup guns. Maybe not like some brands, but this puts things into perspective.

People seem to be speaking out of ignorance or on things they know little or nothing about.

I am using these examples to show that Taurus products of various types do make it into military or police use more than some seem to know about.

Revolvers have been on the down swing as far as police and military use for years now. That for the U.S.A.. I've seen a lot of revolvers in small city or town police holsters. So trying to tie Taurus to the police or military now is not an issue as pistols are now "cutting edge".

Let's stay on topic. No offense to mods here.

weregunner
February 26, 2012, 06:54 AM
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-revolvers/56575-cyliner-slide-shop-works-taurus.html

This might surprise a few .

oldfool
February 26, 2012, 07:00 AM
Brazilian military/LEO uses a lot of guns made by the Brazilian gun company that pretty much owns the entire Brazilian gun market and has for many decades.. wow
my gosh, who ever woulda' thunk it...
(does INA even still exist ??)

and that is supposed to prove something that actually matters ???

gets a little weird round here sometimes
mebbe we ought do a poll on what brand is most preferred by drug cartels
that ought give somebody an irresistible urge to run out and buy brand X or Y or Z

if that don't work, we could then do one on most popular brand used in CoD ??

weregunner
February 26, 2012, 07:05 AM
Taurus 9mm Model PT92AF Blue Alloy 16 Shot 1 Magazine Israeli Police VG California OK
Taurus 9mm PT-92 C Stainless Compact 15 Shot with 1 Magazine Israeli Police ca 1992 PT92 CS Beretta 92SB C Descendant

weregunner
February 26, 2012, 07:06 AM
Peru uses them too.

weregunner
February 26, 2012, 07:10 AM
Point is that there are militaries and police overseas who have or do use Taurus guns. In laarge numbers. These agencies would not have picked something sub par for their forces and have not.

Israel has used them and in some cases still has them. Of course a lot of these guns are no being replaced because they are updating to newer types.

weregunner
February 26, 2012, 07:15 AM
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/pt92-other-taurus-pistols/53542-taurus-p92-armies-police-forces-use.html

There you go. Military use of the PT92,etc.

weregunner
February 26, 2012, 07:18 AM
Oh,yes. I've always been weregunner here.

weregunner
February 26, 2012, 07:33 AM
If you take a look at the first link that I posted the yeses outnumbered the nays by a lot.

A lot of the supposed Taurus nays have no real experience with Taurus or questionable use at best.

The poll here has 164 for and 64 against. Unscientific at best at that. This is only one gun forum.

Have not YET seen the actual verifiable data about Taurus. Where is it?

Anecdotal 2nd hand on down does not count.

Claims of gunshop claims are not viable and able to be verified.

Either that or these gun stores that sell Taurus are not to be trusted to sell anything if the Taurus is actually bad. If it were true. It's unethical and immoral to stick the public. Selling crap means the shops are going to close soon or would not be open now.

That means stores like Davidson's needs to be shut down know if that's the case.

Cylinder and Slide Inc of gunsmith fame works on Taurus. That's one of the links. Surprise,surprise.

www.cylinder-slide.com/

Online gun auctions allowing sub-par guns is also unethical and immoral. Time to shut down Gun Broker ,Gun Auctions.com, GunsAmerica, and all the other ones.

Guess we shut them all down because they sell Taurus.

Oh,yeah. Taurus wouldn't be selling like hot cakes at these places much less be able to make a profit. I've been watching the three mentioned online auction houses inventories going down like boulder over a cliff.

No problems there.

If so the sellers would be getting incoming complaints and negative feedback that would overwhelm them. It isn't happening.

weregunner
February 26, 2012, 07:50 AM
72% of respondents here like Taurus.That leaves 28% that don't and can't give verifiable overall data.

One bad experience does not broad brush stroke a company.

I can send you S&W aficianados into fits.
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-revolvers/8307-taurus-vs-s-w.html


With that I can make the claim that ALL S&W guns are garbage. They have to be. The data support it to follow "conventional wisdom" logic and follow it through to its end.:what::neener::evil::uhoh::)

weregunner
February 26, 2012, 08:01 AM
Is it true? Just using your line of "reasoning" to its final conclusion.

No,not really true that S&W makes all crap. Of course you can see all the S&W recalls and know that it did not take long for the 620 and 619 to hit the skids. Having the barrel shroud that if removal is not done right can ruin things for th owner did not help sales.Yeah, the 619&620 were not recalled. Those are poor replacements for the model 19,65, and 66 in my opinion.

There are enough S&W complaints in the archives or recent threads if you want to go that way.

I notice that a lot of the Taurus positive threads are ignored as well.

If you make the claim that those are not numerous you better bring the proof from the archives here to prove it. I can bring hundreds of pages on the various individual Taurus positive experience to this thread as proof.

I can go into these archives and do about the same thing.

Actually Taurus and the other gun makers are going to sell boat loads of good guns for the foreseeable future. It matters not really what the anti crowd says. After all, I am retired from the military service.

Compared to the people out there buying guns anything written at any gun forum is going to have little to no impact on the sales of the company anyway.

Do what you will. I'll be out having a ball with my over 40 Tauri by themselves, Beretta guns, Springfield, Rugers,SIGs, NAA, and Glock guns. They all work and continue to. No problems.

If someone wants real world data on how a certain brand of guns works I'll give them that data if I know where it is.

CZ223
February 26, 2012, 08:16 AM
and have nothing but praise for them. I only took the second option because I don't like the look of most of their autos. If money allows this year I will be buying another 1911 from them in 9mm. I understand that teir 9mm 1911's very well with all types of ammo not just FMJ like my RIA.

To the OP, you could ask the same question, "Why do people keep buying Taurus products?", of Kimber or some of the the other manufactures out there. Kimber put out a lot of lemons for a while, and occasionally still does, but people keep buying them despite the fact that they cost 2-3 times as much as a Taurus. If Taurus made their 1911's in a commander size and officer size with the option of lightweight frames, I would own 7 Taurus guns instead of the five Kimbers I own, maybe.:evil:

el Godfather
February 26, 2012, 09:58 AM
weregunner, not sure where did you get the 72% figure for people who like Taurus.

To this time:
43.48% people think of Taurus Excellent or Good
28.70% people think of it as nothing special
27.72% people think of it as below average or pathetic

Usertag
February 26, 2012, 10:03 AM
I love Taurus Revolvers, they are a 10/10. Any other type of gun they make is average to substandard. My experience with any of there auto-loaders is that they jam ALOT.

oldfool
February 26, 2012, 10:32 AM
good for Peru
tell Taurus to send them all there, maybe the Peruvians will bother to QC inspect 'em before reselling them

Black Butte
February 26, 2012, 12:09 PM
I would never try to blame my shortcomings on my hardware, but in this case, I do not need to. Both my Taurus revolvers that I had out west always functioned flawlessly.

JR47
February 26, 2012, 01:12 PM
good for Peru
tell Taurus to send them all there, maybe the Peruvians will bother to QC inspect 'em before reselling them__________________

Now THAT, sir, is nothing more than sour grapes. If you can't refute it, insult it.

Brazilian military/LEO uses a lot of guns made by the Brazilian gun company that pretty much owns the entire Brazilian gun market and has for many decades.. wow
my gosh, who ever woulda' thunk it...
(does INA even still exist ??)

More trash talk, without a shred of common sense in it. Beretta built their P92's there in the 1970s. The contract FINISHED in 1980. Unless you think that the Brazilian military just chucked them all that same year, it gives lie to your statement. FYI, IMBEL still produces handguns in Brazil, as well. Then, Argentine imports Bersa there. In the past decade S&W, Colt, Ruger, Savage, Remington, Winchester, and Mossberg all imported tens of thousands of handguns and long guns to Brazil.

Is that at all different from American military requirements that any handguns used by them be manufactured in America? Large Police Agencies often require the same. So, would the following statement be any different than yours?

American military/LEO uses a lot of guns made by American gun companies that pretty much own the entire American gun market, and have for many decades.......wow, my gosh, who ever woulda' thunk it.

One of the reasons why Glock isn't the military's firearm is that they are not built here. Rather, they are assembled from parts manufactured in Austria. Both Beretta and Sig were REQUIRED to build plants here to accept the military contract. Perhaps you think that Colt, S&W, Sig, Glock, and Beretta would jump at the chance to build plants in Brazil for a small contract?

BY the way, as it stands now, weregunner is correct. In the list of choices given, the guns were to be graded as Excellent, Good, Average, Fair, or Poor. Of those choices the first three would all meet the idea of "as good as", or "better than". The lower of the choices would be indicative of "less than average".

Accordingly, 72.23% feel that the guns are average to excellent. 27.78% feel that they are below average.

Should one wish to throw-out "average", which voids normal statistical analysis procedures, the figures would still rate as 43.17% listing as good or excellent, as compared to 27.78% as fair or poor. In such a dis-honest comparison, I'm willing to bet that any gun company would mirror the results. Even then the good is more nearly twice the bad.

oldfool
February 26, 2012, 01:51 PM
all I really really want to know is how the Somalians feel about 'em
(and what brand do the police in Monaco most favor ??)

you reckon maybe weregunner or Qwiks draw would know ?
next time you fellows get together over yonder on taurusarmed.net, do a poll for us, please, and be sure to paste the results up over here

thanks

el Godfather
February 26, 2012, 02:06 PM
I agree with Oldfool. After all he is not the fool at all- so it shows.

milboltnut
February 26, 2012, 02:23 PM
I own a model 66 revolver. So far so good. The shop I bought it from stopped selling Taurus period. Too many returns. He didn't elaborate on what the problems were but he did say "all kinds of issues", mainly with the semi's.

oldfool
February 26, 2012, 05:38 PM
"What are three things Taurus can do to get you to pick Taurus as your primary weapon with confidence?"

That was the summary line of a well written OP post, aka the purpose of this thread. (I think el G is aware of composition, myself, but that's just me)

As usual, 115 posts later, this one is pretty badly frayed. I don't know who el G is, but might just might be somebody looking for a serious answer to that very reasonable question, that could impact, however slightly, how Taurus views their market. Probably not, but could be.

Neither 67 links to taurusarmed.net, nor S&Warmed.net nor Glockarmed.net, are likely to get their attention, no matter how extreme low the likelihood of this one getting their attention. They probably have already noticed the demographics on branded gun forums. Me, I rather doubt the-powers-that-be at Taurus truly believe that there is a VAST INTERNET CONSPIRACY, but I wouldn't know.

There really are some here, including self, who used to think that although Taurus never was the very best money can buy at any price, they really were (arguably) the best ROI investment in bang-for-buck in the handgun marketplace. Many here never had that hands on 1st person valid experience. Many here have not yet owned a real recent manufacture vintage Taurus. Some like myself, have reason to have faith in many of their older vintage guns, and we ain't selling ours; but some of us have very valid 1st person experience with newer Taurus handguns which put the taste of "sour grapes" in our own mouth.

I bemoan the bygone days when S&W, Colt, and Dan Wesson used to care a LOT, and strive mightily to be best in quality, for you as "your primary weapon with confidence".
I want Taurus to succeed, I want to see the day I can again say," Taurus qualifies for me". It used to. I want to see that day again. Even a pre-Taurus Rossi 38 revolver in truck to ride along with me qualifies for me; a same era S&W it ain't, but I trust it, not on "name", but because it's been shot a lot by me. I have have faith it will go bang and hit where I aim it if/when it really matters. Call me a gun snob. I can make do with most anything that mostly goes bang for fun come range day, but for 'primary carry' I want more.

There is far too little competition in the marketplace.

Which is why S&W gets the prices they do (which they some times do deserve and sometimes do not). Which is why Ruger has made quite a comeback in the middle ground, though their quality never did really worry me too much, then or now. Color me happy to see that. Most of which impacts the revolver market far more than the autoloader market, IMO, because there is no real shortage of competition today in autoloaders. That is a good thing, no matter your favorite flavor.

I already answered the question I think most germane to this thread way up front here.

What will NOT make me a born again believer is -
1) cutesy names engraved on the gun
2) a CEO who brags about Taurus' new/different inception-to-shelf-space SHORT timeline, in print
3) whatever it is that the Peruvians prefer
4) branded gun forum links
5) reports from folks like me who have had great success with decades old Taurus handguns

In the meantime, I will just have to be counted in the Vast Internet Conspiracy to destroy competition in the marketplace.
("just because you are paranoid, that don't mean they/we ain't out to get you" ??)

PS
if you choose Taurus as your primary carry, you should matter to Taurus
for some here, they need do nothing, fair enough
for those of us who do not, we ought matter too
the more competition the better, and the better the quality of competition, we all win

trash talk, mebbe so

oldfool
February 26, 2012, 06:10 PM
sorry about all those edits, people, happens every time
(I do strive not to change intent of message, though)

I am the reason my sweet old silver haired daddy (ex WWII paratrooper) used to say "two hands for beginners, son"
I still use two hands on a handgun, and I still am the sloppiest excuse ever was for a "skill" shooter... but I never have mastered but one finger and one thumb on opposite hands for keyboards :o

premier1
February 26, 2012, 06:22 PM
Let's face it there are always going to be the gun snobs out there that if it isn't a Glock,Sig,Kimber or something that costs big money, well then it can't be any good.The fact is that Taurus has been in business a long time. If you talk to anyone they'll tell you how bad their Glock,or Kahr or whatever was. The fact of the matter is that Taurus makes a nice weapon and they have been for over 40 years. I personally own a PT145 Pro. I carry it daily in my work in armored security. It functions flawlessly,is very accurate and it offers a nice combination of quality, and price.

el Godfather
February 26, 2012, 10:06 PM
No it is not about being a gun snob. I rather pay as little as possible for the gun that I can rely on. Pistols like glock Sig Sauer and hk that mentioned are just the use guns, not for collection. If one tend to put together a world class collection then you might say that in production sub 2k guns don't cut it- that's being a snob and rightfully so, because you are putting together a collection. In that aspect a 600$ glock or 1200$ Sig Sauer or a 1000$ usp, they all don't make it.

However, here we just wanted to know what works, and works flawlessly everytime a trigger is pulled. We are talking about the very basics that would qualify a gun as a reliable daily carry. I have had bad luck with Taurus pistols. Over the years whatever I bought either malfunctioned or just broke various parts. Believe me I want to see a change in Taurus mind set where they improve their QC and produce consistent reliable guns. I like their innovation and new designs. For various purposes one needs guns that cost less and Taurus will fit that perfectly. The fact they produce in lower cost country gives them a huge edge.

I know for sure, there are countries in the world that face import restrictions from EU, therefore, Taurus products fill up their markets at a very reasonable cost. People in various parts of the world would even pay more to get a better product.

Like "oldfool" said, we need to see some real change in policy at Taurus. Just buzz words, and new suits won't make a difference.

Growing up, I used to have a 32 SW Long Rossi. It was an amazing gun. Never jammed and no problems whatsoever, until some moron stole it!! I want to be able to buy Taurus/Rossi like that again.

gofastman
February 26, 2012, 10:43 PM
Overall I think Taurus is average.
I got 2 gems though...

MY 709 Slim is a wonderful gun, cycles everything from CCI shotshells to 147gr+P HST's with the utmost reliability.

my TCP hasn't had that many rounds through it, 200 or so, but so far it is proving to be amazingly reliable.

el Godfather
February 27, 2012, 08:47 PM
Gofastman, you seem to be one on the lucky side. If they work well there is nothing like it. Economy budget and great performer, what else does an average joe want?

krupparms
February 28, 2012, 02:20 PM
It is not that they sell some bad guns! That can happen to any Co.! The problem is Taurus willnot honor its LIFE TIME WARRENTY! Their C.S.department is full of jerks &fools! They acted like they had no gun knowledge at all! After sending a Mill.Pro pt 145 back that I received as a preasent,7 times &being told it worked for them,but I & the other 8 people that could not get it to work were not shooting it right, I let it go back to LGS at a loss! It would not fire at all! Until I receive my money back or a working gun from Taurus, I will never trust them agin! And I will suggest that no one buy from them!

G.barnes
February 28, 2012, 03:23 PM
I've owned a Taurus pt 140 pro that dropped mags every shot and a tcp that tore up rounds when chambering them. I got rid of both and now carry a sig 229 that always performs. I know Taurus has great cs but that don't mean anything when your gun breaks and your dead. ( although I guess next of kin could always get it fixed)

seastrike
February 28, 2012, 03:57 PM
I agree gofastman on the TCP. I've now got 200 trouble rounds through mine. Mostly FMJ but just ran a box of Gold Dots through it and it ate them fine. 100% so far for this pistol. The $199 price tag drew me in but this gun is fun, accurate for what it is and reliable.

This was my first Taurus.

el Godfather
February 28, 2012, 08:10 PM
Well $199 is non-arguable price.

el Godfather
March 1, 2012, 07:11 AM
Anyone experience with .40SW Taurus?

JR47
March 1, 2012, 02:01 PM
I own a PT101. I've been shooting it since the pate 1990's. Never had a problem.

Unlike S&W, Sig, Colt, and HK, I haven't had to use Taurus CS, ever, for problems in a gun, new or old.

Years ago, prior to +P ratings, I shot a Model 85CH exclusively with +P and +P+ ammo. Some idiot gun snob was pushing his J-frame over everything else. We both used +P and +P+ .38 Specials. The S&W went badly out of time at the 3K mark. The Taurus also went out of time , but at the 5K mark.

I sent the gun back, with a letter explaining what had been done to it, and asking for an estimate to fix it. 6 weeks later, I received the gun, re-built and re-blued, at no cost.

The AVERAGE turn-around time for S&W (3 guns), Sig (2 guns), Colt (2guns), and HK, (1 gun) has been a little over 6 weeks. I still own all of these guns. In my experience, Taurus has been a much more reliable brand than any of those others. My latest Taurus acquisition was just over 6 months ago, a PT58HC. As of today, with 500 rounds through it, not a problem.

Color me pleased.

However, if I pay $500-1200 for a handgun, I really expect it to work 100% of the time. I also expect it to last. My Wilson Combat 1911A1, at three years, and a bit over 1K rounds, had to be returned to the shop for reliability problems. Took 4 weeks. Works 100% now, but for how long?

I don't return a gun because it "shoots low, or to the right". Nor do I expect a gun to function forever without cleaning. Too many of today's buyers don't even run a patch through the bore of a new gun before blasting away. Then, any problems make that gun a POS. It isn't the gun that deserves that appellation.

LawScholar
March 1, 2012, 02:18 PM
My dad and brother had three Tauri, purchased years apart, of different designs. Two autos, one revolver.

All three were absolute trash. Broke, malfunctioned, locked up, etc.

I won't touch 'em with a ten foot pole. When there are two handguns, and one is a weird-looking Taurus copy of the original, and you save about $100, that's a no-brainer to me. Actual, objective quality, hard-earned through reputation, costs a bit more, and I can't imagine feeling at ease with a Taurus on the nightstand.

Your money, though, is yours to spend, and Taurus will remain in business by churning out gimmicks like the Judge and copying designs for $50-100 cheaper.

wickedsprint
March 1, 2012, 02:20 PM
Only owned one taurus auto, a 38 super. Never had any issues. Did not care for key locks so offloaded it.

jj1962hemi
March 1, 2012, 02:22 PM
I have had experiences with five different Tauri (in order of ownership):

1st) PT-92, SS 9MM, great gun, I'd buy another. No FTFs EVER. I wish it had adj. sights.

2nd) PT-100AFS, SS 40 S&W, good shooter, on sale, it has a "pimp-daddy" look I don't like anymore (gold highlights, rosewood grips). I haven't fired it as much, but have had no negative experiences.

3rd) Model 82, USED, SS .38Spl., nice trigger, good pointer, no problems other than having to get smaller grips (for my wife).

4th) Model 856, blued .38Spl. (six shots), locked up first time out with +P ammo, 2nd time, shavings of copper jackets came out of the side of the cylinder. Primer strikes were not centered. I sent it back and received it back in 2 weeks, after Taurus finished the forcing cone and increased the gap. 150 rounds of 158 gr. SWHP +Ps later...no problems.

5th) Model 85, blued .38 Spl., when dry firing (without snap caps, shame on me), I noticed the trigger return spring stuck every 30th (?) pull or so. Taurus told me the missing snap caps were a problem. I ran 200 rounds through it (100 +Ps from above) with no problems. I just installed a Wolff trigger return spring and a lighter hammer spring and the trigger pull is "like butter!" I haven't tested it for reliability yet with the lighter spring.

I rated them a four out of five. That said, I bought these throughout the years to save money. If I had replaced all five of these over the years with Beretta and S&W products, respectively, I'd be out an additional $800.

I'm less happy today than I would have been if I stopped at three!

glove
March 1, 2012, 04:57 PM
PT-140 Mil. Pro. Bought new around 5 years ago. It's been 100% from day one and it hits where I aim. :) Now I am looking for a PT-111 or a 709 slim.
Dave

walker944
March 1, 2012, 05:13 PM
I have quite a few Taurus handguns of various models. My take on it is that Taurus Brazil has very poor quality assurance practices; but, Taurus Miami will make it right when you send your FTF, FTE pistol back to them. I have heard of the Customer Service nightmares, but never have experienced them myself. I have sent Miami 3-4 pistols over the years to make right...and they did. We shouldn't have to send new out-of-the-box back to the "factory" to be corrected, but the price vs slight inconvenience for the return trip for tweaking is worth it to me. I am very pleased with all my Taurus pistols/revolvers. I have about 10 of them.... PT145, PT99, PT22, PT111, 66, 85, etc, etc. I don't disbelieve folks have had their problems, but they have not been a deterent to me.

mesinge2
March 1, 2012, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by el Godfather

Anyone experience with .40SW Taurus?

I had one for a while and it worked well, but it was a snappy little mother

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc401/mesinge2/My%20heaters/40SWTaurusMillenniumPro1jpg.jpg

skt239
March 1, 2012, 06:18 PM
Weregunner,

Quicksdraw would mainly post on Taurus threads and then start littering the thread with links that had little useful info. Everything from the style of posting (one post after another and lots of go no where links) and the style of writing are the same. You certainly have an agenda and whether or not you are compensated for your efforts is what I would like to know.

http://img.tapatalk.com/42575451-03a4-257d.jpg

el Godfather
March 2, 2012, 03:34 PM
Weregunner issue seems little strange to me. The idea is to have meaningful discussion/debate rather then blindly favoring brands for what they are NOT.

JR47
March 2, 2012, 04:15 PM
rather then blindly favoring brands for what they are NOT.

That, sir is a blatant opinion masquerading as fact. You'll be forced to note that Taurus is only "terrible" to less than 29%, including people who we see bashing any brand but their favorite. I do believe that any other brand that isn't a boutique manufacturer, will reflect at least that percentage.

Quicksdraw would mainly post on Taurus threads and then start littering the thread with links that had little useful info.

More like links that you didn't agree with, don't you think? I have contact with that poster, but only through this, and another forum.

My actual favorite handguns are Korth and Korriphilla. They make the most painstakingly assembled handguns touted here look as though they were fitted with a wood rasp, and finished with a hammer. Mine have never given me a moments trouble, and the finish is like comparing a Yugo to a Ferrari.

In the grand scheme of things, Taurus has copied one handgun, the Beretta Model 92, pre-government testing style. Even then, they modified it beyond what Beretta left them. As far as the revolvers go, has anyone accused Charter of "copying S&W" or Dan Wesson of "copying S&W". There are only so many presentable methods of building modern revolvers. For that matter, are S&W, Sig, Springfield, Taurus, Rock Island, and the rest "copying Colt at a cheaper price"?

That whole blather is a real non-starter.:)

danbowkley
March 2, 2012, 06:01 PM
I can't speak for the other models, having never fired or owned one, but their PT1911 is a fine gun. I've put several thousand rounds through it, and haven't had to replace anything (okay I admit to losing the thumb safety detent pin when I was cleaning it...) so overall I'm impressed. Shoots as well as I do, too.

el Godfather
March 3, 2012, 05:30 AM
No, the links that are not relavent and to the point. I would say.

wristtwister
March 3, 2012, 07:05 AM
We sell a ton of Taurus products at the shop, and send a few back to make sure they start working again. I own 2 of their products that work flawlessly, but I wouldn't have bought them if they didn't have a lifetime warranty.

Clearly, we send more Taurus products back to the factory for repair than any other manufacturer, but of course, we sell enough Taurus products that their numbers don't seem out of line with other manufacturers. One good thing about Taurus is that they fix the guns and get them back in a timely manner.

It never seems to be any "one issue" with their guns either... every gun that comes back has a "repair notice" that details what happened with the gun, and as many of them come back with "lubricated gun and it worked flawlessly" (not the "technical statement" they send), but you get the gist of what they're saying. We often get "firing pin failure... fixed", or "feeding problem... fixed"...

We have customers tell us that they have Taurus products that run flawlessly, and others that bring the same gun back 10 times to get it fixed... so it's hard to gage how knowledgeable the customer is about their gun sometimes, but the bottom line is that Taurus fixes the problem EVERY time... and DOES have a lifetime warranty.

WT

MICHAEL T
March 3, 2012, 02:10 PM
Because of my experience with Taurus products over the years, I have no faith in their weapons.


I agree with mike my last Taurus auto came back from factory same why it left broken . But they did polish the feed ramp. That caused the lite hammer strikes I guess.

kokapelli
March 3, 2012, 03:44 PM
I agree with mike my last Taurus auto came back from factory same why it left broken . But they did polish the feed ramp. That caused the lite hammer strikes I guess.
Yeah it is a known fact that polishing feed ramps may cause lite strikes.:rolleyes:

gmh1013
March 3, 2012, 04:11 PM
Have fired 1000's of 9mm NATO rounds with only 2 ftf that i can remember and it was because it was very dirty from not cleaning.
I dont think i would trust the plastic ones but the alloy 92's have my vote
and my 917

V1ROT8
March 3, 2012, 05:46 PM
Purchased my first Taurus last year, one of the Judge models. Made it thru approx 20 410 rounds when revolver seized up and no firing. Taurus CS was excellent and fixed Judge promptly and returned. Now almost 100 more rounds shot without any problems at all. Was not wanting to carry my Judge for self protection anyway but I do have it available as one of the weapons my wife and I have available in our home. Feel very comfortable with the Judge's place in our home.

el Godfather
March 4, 2012, 12:52 AM
Getting stuck up within 300 rounds is just pathetic. Should not happen, and if it was a life threatening situation, then, you sir, probably won't be here to relate this to us.

Also 2 malfunctions in 1000 rounds is simply not accpetable. In my Glock 19 I have had ZERO malfunctions even after 20k rounds. A firearm that malfunctions is just not worth keeping. Its value is no more then dead paper weight.

weregunner
March 4, 2012, 12:54 AM
Well, I just scored a Taurus 92C compact and will be taking that baby out for a test in a few days.

I'll give info on Taurus or other brands' data to someone and let them then go and see and try the brand,make,and model of gun out for themselves. If they follow the guides for checking out handguns or know that stuff already then they can make up their own minds and do it intelligently and with common sense. That's without someone telling how ,when, and what to think just because they say it. Real facts win out every time.

It figures that no one should go out and buy brand whatever just because the internet people say so. I do not know anyone that has ever done that. A vast majority of people find things out for themselves and use the Internet as a tool to do some research.

There are many other real sources out there than the Internet. It's just one of many tools to use for research.

If I buy a car I check with the sources of those who actually have had real world experience with that product and check many other sources as well. Like how does that model actually perform and gain the knowledge from neutral sources as well. Guns are the same way. The gun media does not sway me either to go out with stars in the eyes,brain turned to mush, and then buy the gun. Don't do that.

It's with a much planning, checking things out from many sources,using common sense, inspecting the gun thoroughly before buying,leave nothing to chance, and when all the ducks are in a row,go buy the gun. Check it over using checklist like data for that type of gun from reliable and realistic sources.

Most people do or should.

el Godfather
March 4, 2012, 08:20 AM
Congrat on the score.
The thing is that when one reads about a certain gun it should be about features etc. Not for reliability, because thay should be a given constant.

JR47
March 4, 2012, 04:10 PM
Also 2 malfunctions in 1000 rounds is simply not accpetable

Well, there goes my Model 17 Glock, then. As well as my Wilson Combat Classic. Both guns had two failures in the first 100 rounds.

I'm guessing that, while Wilson suggests a break-in period, and Gaston only cares about the money he can make in America, that most of us would be unarmed with that as a criterion, especially as a gun breaks in.

With all of the various profiles of bullets, power ranges, and propellants, anyone actually testing them in a gun may well find a profile that it doesn't like, or a bullet loaded to a power range that the gun won't function reliably with.

I have been shooting for literally more than a half-century, and there are still times when a gun will choke on a particular round, just, apparently, for the heck of it. Is it the ammo, or the gun? Nobody will ever be able to tell without a laboratory and an unlimited budget. :)

weregunner
March 4, 2012, 06:28 PM
People want to know if a gun is reliable or not. It is also discussed quite a bit so that does not make sense.

Gaining well rounded knowledge is what people are looking for.

After having answered hundreds of requests for data and what they want to know give them all the data so a sound decision can be made. There is a lot of false data out there in the world. Give the facts and the truth in a mature manner and one can not go wrong.

ExTank
March 4, 2012, 06:54 PM
Also 2 malfunctions in 1000 rounds is simply not accpetable. In my Glock 19 I have had ZERO malfunctions even after 20k rounds. A firearm that malfunctions is just not worth keeping. Its value is no more then dead paper weight.

This has got to be one of the bigger piles of horse puckey I've seen anyone post in a good while.

Complete and utter nonsense.

Erik M
March 4, 2012, 10:26 PM
PT92 = awesome, reliable, heavy framed automatic.
all other models = nothing to get excited about, still aesthetically more attractive than Ruger autos.

The Lone Haranguer
March 4, 2012, 10:41 PM
I won't give a "verdict" on their currently produced guns, but the memory of my egregiously dreadful lemon PT945 from 1996 is still fresh. :rolleyes: Perhaps it is unfair of me, but I tend to hold grudges. ;)

jwsracin
March 4, 2012, 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by el Godfather
Also 2 malfunctions in 1000 rounds is simply not accpetable. In my Glock 19 I have had ZERO malfunctions even after 20k rounds. A firearm that malfunctions is just not worth keeping. Its value is no more then dead paper weight.
This has got to be one of the bigger piles of horse puckey I've seen anyone post in a good while.

Complete and utter nonsense

i agree completely EXTANK

kokapelli
March 5, 2012, 09:16 AM
Getting stuck up within 300 rounds is just pathetic. Should not happen, and if it was a life threatening situation, then, you sir, probably won't be here to relate this to us.

Also 2 malfunctions in 1000 rounds is simply not accpetable. In my Glock 19 I have had ZERO malfunctions even after 20k rounds. A firearm that malfunctions is just not worth keeping. Its value is no more then dead paper weight.
And of course all Glocks are perfect.
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/attachments/glock/7888d1205106870-glock-kaboom-glock02.jpg

wickedsprint
March 5, 2012, 03:47 PM
Even though I like them, glocks are not perfect. In a recent firearms qualification, two of the range glocks experienced some sort of failure involving the trigger reset. Granted these guns probably see thousands of rounds per month.

JR47
March 5, 2012, 04:21 PM
Anyone who has decided that a less than .2% failure rate is the only acceptable one needs to actually go shooting somewhere besides his key-board.

I have to agree with those who said that this was a fantasy, rather than reality.

Glocks, according to Police Armorers, fail with more than a little regularity. Some of it can be traced to improper handling, but much more has to do with wear and parts failures.

Using you own scenario: 2 malfunctions in 1000 rounds is simply not accpetable.

How often do you trade in guns?

As mentioned, I have Glock 17. It's been nowhere near that reliable. Neither are those of the local Sheriff's Department, or the City Police.

I might have actually believed some of what you posted, until that exaggerated claim.

ExTank
March 5, 2012, 09:41 PM
:confused: Did I hallucinate a certain exchange?

el Godfather
March 6, 2012, 01:35 AM
I was wondering if Beretta and Taurus ever got into any litigation over the PT92 design. Although PT92 safety is frame mounted, but that design is also available in beretta 92 Combat Combo model.

JR47
March 6, 2012, 08:15 PM
When Beretta sold the plant, they also sold all of the tooling, and Taurus was licensed by them to build the guns. That lapsed as soon as Beretta entered the US trials, and moved the safety location.

el Godfather
March 6, 2012, 11:03 PM
You mean that the license was revoked by beretta, and also that afterwards Taurus moved sfaety to frame?

LawScholar
March 7, 2012, 09:54 AM
The Taurus purchase of Beretta 92 machinery was fully legitimate, but it was a while ago and now the PT92 is built on Taurus equipment, not Beretta.

Gladius
March 7, 2012, 08:40 PM
My PT1911 has swallowed everything it's been fed, ball, JHP, flat nose, and more, many of them dirty old handloads (many of which were out of spec), about 400 or so rounds total so far. It is more accurate than I can demonstrate. The slide action is as slick as ice, the trigger light (but could be crisper).

This is only one pistol, but I'm very impressed so far. I don't know if this is indicative of Taurus quality nowadays or if I got lucky, all I know is I got a real good gun for a good price.

MisterNoisy
March 7, 2012, 09:20 PM
My Taurus experience consists of my own PT92 and 3 Taurus revolvers my father owns (which I get to shoot on a fairly regular basis).

Any of them are 'SHTF'-type guns - they go bang and shoot to POA every time. I shoot a lot more than he does and in over 8K fed into it, the PT92 has yet to do anything untoward. The only downer to the 92 is that it sprays the cases everywhere - you never know where the brass will end up.

el Godfather
March 8, 2012, 02:28 PM
I am glad to see that lot of good experience with Taurus is showing up finally.

Does it mean that Taurus is improving quality? I say this because similar poll questions were held over past years with very different results.

MisterMike
March 8, 2012, 02:53 PM
I am glad to see that lot of good experience with Taurus is showing up finally.

Does it mean that Taurus is improving quality? I say this because similar poll questions were held over past years with very different results.

I think you need to keep anything gleaned from an on-line forum or a non-scientific poll in perspective. If you peruse any discussion board for opinions on pretty much any product, you'll find people who are hellbent on disliking that product. Issues are often magnified and someone who feels aggrieved by a bad product experience will often engage in a protracted and heated attack on that brand.

Places like this may be a good way to catch the general drift, but you have to take opinions here with a grain (or maybe a spoonful) of salt, trying to separate those with informed opinions from the those who may express strong opinions, but have little, or no, basis for those opinions.

ExTank
March 8, 2012, 06:21 PM
+1 to what Mike said.

I think it's indisputable that Taurus has had both quality issues as well as customer service issues. There's just been too many reports from people to that effect to ignore. But the scope of those issues ("a few bad seeds," "a minor and unfortunate trend," "slight yet persistent issue," or "they're crap") can be argued ad infitum ad nauseum.

Someone said in another thread words to the effect that any Taurus firearm made right before, during, or after Carnivale is most likely to have...issues...:rolleyes:... and I think there's more thana grain of truth to that.

Unfortunately, there's no readily identifiable "made on this date" stamp for a prospective buyer to check against.

And there's been too may reports from people who have had zero problems with Taurus firearms to completely assign them to the scrap-heap of "trash guns."

My only experiences with Taurus guns have been:

1) the PT-99 I sold a year or so back. I just got bored with it, never any problem with it at all, wish I'd kept it;

2) a Raging Bull .44 I picked up cheap at a gun show. It was "fired once and immediately put down." The owner, who it turned out was not a big fan of big recoil, sold it as-is plus a 50-round box of .44 Mag ammo with 49 rounds in it. 200 rounds downrange so far (.44 Mag ain't cheap) without a single hiccup;

3) a PT-92AF (that someone had after-marketed a set of adjustable sights onto) in rough shape going cheap at Cabela's. I looked it over, bought it, cleaned it (it cleaned up very nice, just needed some basic TLC), and it's a danged nail-driver.

None of these have been used as GOTH guns (or SHTF as some would say). None were ever really driven hard. The worst was the PT-99 had 300 rounds go through it one fine day at the range, sharing with friends and family, without a single feed jam, failure to extract, misfire, etc.

I feel confident that I could pull any one of them out of the gun safe if needed and shoo some uninvited unfriendly out of my house, or put them down if came to that.

That's three rolls of the dice. Am I really just that lucky? Or are some people overstating the case against Taurus?

All told I've paid considerable less buying these Taurus' than having bought comparable models from other manufacturers. I feel I've realized good value out of them.

JC98
March 8, 2012, 09:52 PM
Lot of negative experiences.....
I have a 24/7 in 9mm. One jam in who knows how many thousands of rounds. I would buy another Taurus and am actually looking at their 1911's. My Dad has an old .22 from Taurus and sent it back to them a few months ago as it was no longer firing, they shipped him a brand new one back. I would call that good customer service considering the gun was 10+ years old.

Stooges
March 10, 2012, 12:06 PM
I had a very bad experience with a Taurus 1911. Now, Taurus did eventually fix the gun, but it was three months of the world's worst nightmare getting there. Which brings me to my point. I'm far more concerned with a company's customer service than I am with the perceived "quality" of their guns. Yes, quality control does vary from company to company and some companies tend to turn out more lemons than others. And I do think that Taurus has had a bad reputation in that area. But even the best gun makers can turn out lemons. I think as long as you stick with any of the main stream gun makers, you have a good chance of getting a good gun. What concerns me is what happens if I do get a bad one. A friend of mine bought a Hi-Point. Now, if you want to find one of most maligned guns on the planet, its Hi-Point. His was a jam-o-matic. But when he called their customer service, they sent him a pre-paid overnight shipping label to send it back in. He got it back in less than two weeks, and it hasn't experienced a failure since. And they threw in two new magazine for his trouble. Now THAT is customer service. Taurus, on the other hand. My experience with their customer service, as I said, was a nightmare. And I know more than a few people with similar experiences. That is why I dislike Taurus. Not someone else's perception of the quality of their guns.

Now, I have also heard that Taurus' new CEO is working to improve the company's customer service and their quality control. Has he succeeded? Or will he? Only time will tell.

diesel
March 11, 2012, 01:04 AM
hi guys
i own 3 taurus hand guns 1raging bull44mag stainless mod444 i think
1 pt1911ss and 1 pt92afs 9mm
i only had one encounter with taurus customer service, a falty mag in my pt1911. i called taurus and they shiped me a new mag right away
i know this was not a serious prob but they were very quick to make me happy
the prob with the mag was i could only load 3 rds in the mag then the follower would lock up on the inside of the mag body
the 2 factory mags i have for my 45 run fine but i would never buy a taurus mag i just purchased 4 kimber mags much better quality
i prob have close to 1k rds through my pt92 never a malf of any kind
about 500rds through my pt1911 exelent 1911 for the money 525+tax
i love it

Doug S
March 11, 2012, 03:12 AM
I didn't vote, because I haven't had enough experience with the semi-autos to really know, but the one I owned (a NIB PT111) broke on the 65th shot of the first range session. The trigger mechanism broke. I've not bought another.

el Godfather
March 11, 2012, 05:46 AM
At 327 votes
140 votes are for Good-Excellant
99 votes for Below Average-Pathetic
Whereas 88 folks have said Average and nothing speicial about Taurus.

This shows that up to this point about 43% are in favor and about 30% are not in favor of Taurus. Pretty wide split in they way people think about Taurus. About 27% that have said Average also qualified that statment there is nothing special about Taurus. How is that interperated is subjective. I say its negative.

oldfool
March 11, 2012, 12:45 PM
I noticed you do a lot of polls el Godfather

a suggestion, if it strikes your fancy
too generic a poll here - one brand (no matter the brand), over a whole class of guns (like autoloaders), is simply too broad to do much more than ignite flame wars
barely better than unlimited "brand only" warz

if looking at NIB current manufacture only,
(that at least takes out the whole "nothing new is good" and/or "nothing old is good" distortions... yesterday is gone, whether it was the good old days or the bad old days)

ask folks which brand they would buy, limited to a more specific size/type/caliber gun
strive for gun on gun head-to-head as similar as can selections
What would they shuck up their bucks for today, next gun ?

doesn't actually matter what their choice is based on
price, value
quality
reputation
reliability
sales pitch
tacticool
cuteness
politics, peevishness, personality, or personal experience
whatever

the count is ultimately about what they would pull their own wallet out of pocket for their "next" of that specific type
one poll like that over on the revolver forum now, classification NIB 38 snubbies
pretty clear gun category, some few brands listed, some fared very poorly
but may have fared much better in a different category

say "full size hi-cap 9 autoloaders"
list a dozen brands, see which way the wind blows
edit... duh.. yeah ok, there 'tis, 9mm workhorses... but you could have tossed Taurus 92 in there you know
besides , Glocksters are a foregone conclusion on that, no poll required, whether you like 'em or hate 'em)

or 32 acp pocket pistolas
or 380 acp pocket pistolas
or compact 45 acp pistolas
or whatever, but a narrower specific category

unless you limit it to only 2 or 3 brand choices, I bet there will be quite a lot of scatter, no overwhelming winner.. because there are a whole bunch of autoloader brands out there that are in no real danger of closing up shop tomorrow
(alas, in revolvers, the brand list tends to get a lot shorter)

I think you may already have one something like running on THR now, but still somewhat broader, more about the brand than about the gun, IIRC ??

but that, I think better reflects what gun owners think about brand X vs Y vs Z, when it really actually matters
because a mighty lot of us are not wedded to one brand, our choices vary quite a lot by type/size/caliber
me, I own only 40 firearms, but that is 17 brands, lots of reasons why "for me"
(and all 40 are, in some way or other, a "favorite")

gun on gun, moreso than brand vs brand
and hopefully a lot less "he said/she said", "he/she touched me first !"


PS
these excellent, good, average, poor polls don't mean much...
as you said yourself. people don't even agree on what "average" means; no good reason why they should

el Godfather
March 11, 2012, 04:35 PM
Oldfool, good suggestion. However work horse poll is reflection of my inventory or guns I considered at some point. Its stated in the OP

premier1
March 11, 2012, 05:31 PM
The fact of the matter is that Taurus couldn't possibly stay in business this long if all the made was crap.The facts are that every company whether they make guns,TV sets,cars or guitar amplifiers has an acceptable failure rate.You only hear from those who had a bad expierance with their product. Taurus is one of the top selling lines of handguns out there. I personally own 2 and love them. I also own several other makes and love them. I can tell you all about a Kahr that a friend of mine bought and had to send it back.But one fact remains in anything you can't stay in business making anything if all you make is crap.

diesel
March 11, 2012, 06:54 PM
i could,nt agree more im happy with my taurus purchases:D:D:D:D

Outlaw Man
March 11, 2012, 11:33 PM
I had a 24/7 in .45 that jammed all the time. Customer service was great and shipped me a couple replacement mags, which helped a little. I'm confident they'd have eventually fixed it. It was an early model, and I've heard they fixed them. When it DID work, it was very accurate.

I had a PT1911 that functioned flawlessly, but I couldn't get used to the Heinie sights. I was too cheap to change them out.

I now have a PT92 that works for me.

For the price, I wouldn't hesitate to get one.

diesel
March 12, 2012, 01:30 AM
i have both my 1911 has the novak 3dot sites and i love it it is very accurate even with plinking ammo fed champion230gr ball
my 1911 handles +p165gr solid copper hollow points from magtech great with no ftf or fte.
i got the pt92 for my wife she loves it with almost 1k rds through it it runs like a top. i will say i dont care for the rail on the frame of the 92
my 1911does not have it

Ben86
March 12, 2012, 11:42 AM
I've owned the 709 slim and 670 .22 revolver. Both were great, I regret selling them.

Keep in mind many people who bemoan taurus have never shot or owned one. Also, brands that make big sales end up having what seems like more dissatisfied customers just because of the law of probability.

diesel
March 12, 2012, 12:01 PM
yeah i have gotten alot of flack from my range buds about (my 1911 knock off)
i just say kimbers are a 1911 knock off as well with he has and might i add my taurus is more accurate than he is with his famed kimber

weregunner
March 13, 2012, 05:59 AM
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-1911s/2127-show-us-your-taurus-pt1911s.html

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/700s/31959-700-series-picture-thread.html
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/24-7-series/28745-show-us-your-24-7-a.html

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/millennium-pro-pistols/38254-millennium-pro-picture-thread-.html

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/pt92-other-taurus-pistols/6195-post-your-other-taurus-pistols.html

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-compliants/1792-taurus-accomplishments.html

This goes with the last link.

TAURUS AWARDS

2010

THE BEACON AWARDS
The Beacon Council
International Commerce Award
Taurus International MFG, Inc.


2008




7th Annual Irlene Mandrell
Gold Sponsor
Celebrity Shoot
Taurus International

Golden Bullseye HandGUN of the Year
American Rifleman is proud to name the Taurus Judge as its 2008 Golden Bullseye Handgun of the Year

Golden Bullseye Award, NRA
American Rifleman
Handgun of the Year
Taurus Judge


2007




Manufacturer of the Year
Finalist
Taurus International Mfg., Inc.
Presented by SFMA

Golden Bullseye Award, NRA
American Rifleman
Handgun of the Year
Taurus PT 24/7



2005

Since you wanted to go there I did for the record. :)

el Godfather
March 13, 2012, 05:18 PM
Can someone explain the value of the awards listed? Are these distinction reflecting the excellence for quality?

limbkiller
March 13, 2012, 06:42 PM
The completly suck period.

ExTank
March 13, 2012, 09:43 PM
^ I suppose there's something to be said for concise analysis.

weregunner
March 14, 2012, 03:55 AM
Simple. They make a very good product and get awarded for it by the industry in various ways. I thought that was obvious.

el Godfather
March 14, 2012, 04:11 PM
Not really that obvious.

JR47
March 15, 2012, 01:32 PM
That appears to be the problem with the bashers. They can't afford to acknowledge the awards, it interjects fact into their little dreams. Perhaps, as such an expert on Taurus, you'd care to put your efforts where your key-board is. It's simple. Research how many guns Taurus sells in a year, versus how many are reported as faulty to the CS, and sent in for repair. Then, to put it into perspective, do the same for three other large manufacturers. After that, post the results, and we''ll see how much is truth, and how much is Internet Commando bluster.

Otherwise, it's all opinion, and everyone has one, and they all stink.

So, we're waiting. :):)

el Godfather
March 15, 2012, 03:23 PM
Perhaps you should do the research for us since you seem to know where to look for suggested information.

I dont even want to speak of awards for sale and gun the year etc. The only thing that would matter would be competition award or such event where pistol was pushed to limits. Shear number of sale doesnt mean much. Toyota sells more then BMW, but that does not make Toyota better.

ExTank
March 15, 2012, 09:22 PM
Better? "Better" is relative. Better at...what? Than...what?

Toyota is better than BMW at...providing reliable, economical auto transport. BMW is better than Toyota at..providing mid-range performance luxury automobiles.

If your definition of "what's the better gun" is how long and hard it can be run before breaking, you're going to get a different result than if your definition of better is "who best combines price and quality in a mass-market firearm."

We had a rather warm discussion in Rifle Country a while back over Olympic Arms rifles. Some TactiCool fool was running Oly down because their rifles weren't up to the task of refighting 1st or 2nd Fallujah.

But not everyone (let's be honest here: hardly anyone, comparatively speaking) is an "Operator," and the need of the general civilian market to have a firearm capable of going to the mat in a torture test is simply not there.

LawScholar
March 15, 2012, 09:31 PM
That appears to be the problem with the bashers. They can't afford to acknowledge the awards, it interjects fact into their little dreams. Perhaps, as such an expert on Taurus, you'd care to put your efforts where your key-board is. It's simple. Research how many guns Taurus sells in a year, versus how many are reported as faulty to the CS, and sent in for repair. Then, to put it into perspective, do the same for three other large manufacturers. After that, post the results, and we''ll see how much is truth, and how much is Internet Commando bluster.

Otherwise, it's all opinion, and everyone has one, and they all stink.

So, we're waiting. :):)

All I know is that my dad and brother owned 3 Tauri, and all 3 were abysmal. None of us have ever owned a bad gun by another manufacturer except my dad's old RG. (altogether we own 40-50).

Would I strongly dislike Smith or Beretta if I'd seen 3 pieces of junk in a row? Absolutely. But I didn't, so I strongly dislike Taurus.

There are simply too many QC problem reports, combined with my personal experience, for me to take a chance with my money. I watched the revolver lock. I watched the safety fall off the auto. No little dreams here :)

But to each their own!

oso
March 15, 2012, 10:46 PM
i own a pt 1911, a pt 99 have had zero issues with either. in fact my pt 1911 outshoots my kimber TLE 2 which has had issues. i own a Kahr pm45 my 3rd. pm 45 the first 2 had to be replaced due to malfunctions of every kind. also i seem to remember all the ruger LCP's going back to ruger, is anyone bashing ruger. all manufacturer's put out crap i don't care what you pay. the dealer i go to has recentley just sent baqck 3 Colt 1911's, the new owners very disappointed in Colts Q.C. is anybody bashing Colt. bottom line most people don't go one gun forums and report unless they have had a problem. i never went on a forum until i bought the Kahr pm45 and had so many problems, if i didn't have a problem i would never have gone on the forum. most people on forums have to much time with nothing else to do. they would be better off with more trigger time and less keyboard time.

JR47
March 16, 2012, 01:12 PM
Perhaps you should do the research for us since you seem to know where to look for suggested information.

No, you are the one championing the "QC issues". Instead of more opinion, I thought that you might actually like to interject a little fact into the dialogue

After all, you seem to expect people to believe that your opinions are based in fact. So, prove it.

LawScholar, my last two S&W products all had lockwork issues on new guns.

Would I strongly dislike Smith or Beretta if I'd seen 3 pieces of junk in a row? Absolutely. But I didn't, so I strongly dislike Taurus.

Following that logic, I should be bashing S&W, right?

FYI, I own considerably more guns than you, as a group, do. I've had brand new HK, Sig, Colt, Wilson Combat, and Ruger pistols that were all problems from an operational stand-point. Internal problems, not something that anyone with an IQ above ice cube temp should have seen when examining the gun PRIOR to purchase. The QC of just about ALL manufacturers has slipped markedly over the past 20 years. I routinely reject guns from "reputable" manufacturers for poor timing, bad sights, poor finish, and ragged actions. Trying to pick one brand out is ludicrous.

LawScholar
March 16, 2012, 06:27 PM
No, you are the one championing the "QC issues". Instead of more opinion, I thought that you might actually like to interject a little fact into the dialogue

After all, you seem to expect people to believe that your opinions are based in fact. So, prove it.

LawScholar, my last two S&W products all had lockwork issues on new guns.



Following that logic, I should be bashing S&W, right?

FYI, I own considerably more guns than you, as a group, do. I've had brand new HK, Sig, Colt, Wilson Combat, and Ruger pistols that were all problems from an operational stand-point. Internal problems, not something that anyone with an IQ above ice cube temp should have seen when examining the gun PRIOR to purchase. The QC of just about ALL manufacturers has slipped markedly over the past 20 years. I routinely reject guns from "reputable" manufacturers for poor timing, bad sights, poor finish, and ragged actions. Trying to pick one brand out is ludicrous.

Spend your money on Taurus if you'd like. I have no problem with that. I don't trust 'em, so I won't.

It's not just guns. If I bought 3 Chevys and all broke down, I wouldn't buy any more Chevys. If I bought 3 Husky power drills and all 3 broke in a week, no more Husky.

I don't reward companies for taking a crap on me, in any industry. I don't shrug and chalk it up to bad luck, especially when it's 3 instances each a year apart.

In my personal experience, and judging by the disproportionate horror stories I've seen from Taurus owners on the various forums I read, Taurus seems to be an inferior brand. If your experiences and impressions lead you to a different conclusion and a different way to spend your money, well, that's capitalism! :)

contender
March 16, 2012, 10:42 PM
i trust the pt92

the rest of the taurus line i will pass. This based on some experience and on actual observations of problems on the firing line and observed returns to shops.

Ben86
March 17, 2012, 12:04 PM
Shear number of sale doesnt mean much. Toyota sells more then BMW, but that does not make Toyota better.

That's not the point. What he is saying is that if you take the number of Taurus firearms sold and divide it by the amount brought in for repair it would average out to be about the same as most other firearm manufacturers.

LawScholar
March 17, 2012, 12:07 PM
That's not the point. What he is saying is that if you take the number of Taurus firearms sold and divide it by the amount brought in for repair it would average out to be about the same as most other firearm manufacturers.

I'm not sure that's true, though. The owner of a small gun shop in my hometown quit carrying them because he was sending them back much more then any other brand he sold.

Gtimothy
March 17, 2012, 02:16 PM
My wife purched a PT 709 slim as a ccw gun. She liked the way it felt in her hand. I didn't have a reason to think that it would not be a good gun for her until we went to the range. I have never shot a gun with adjustable sights that I could not get dialed in after a few shots. UNTIL NOW! Windage and elevation adjustments have no effect and I went through several (5) magazines and never got it dialed in. If my target was < 5feet away I would porbably get a hit or two but I think I'm going to have to find my wife a different CCW gun because I don't trust it!

ExTank
March 17, 2012, 02:20 PM
^ No offense, but there's a possibility that that might be saying more about you than it is about the firearm in question.

clem
March 17, 2012, 02:36 PM
I have a OLDER 99 autoloader and it works fine.:)
The newer revolvers are another issue.:cuss:

rferizano
March 17, 2012, 03:29 PM
My wife purched a PT 709 slim as a ccw gun. She liked the way it felt in her hand. I didn't have a reason to think that it would not be a good gun for her until we went to the range. I have never shot a gun with adjustable sights that I could not get dialed in after a few shots. UNTIL NOW! Windage and elevation adjustments have no effect and I went through several (5) magazines and never got it dialed in. If my target was < 5feet away I would porbably get a hit or two but I think I'm going to have to find my wife a different CCW gun because I don't trust it!
Don't blame the gun because you can't shoot!

Redneck with a 40
March 17, 2012, 07:28 PM
I've had two taurus guns take a crap on me, a Tracker 357 and a Mil-Pro 40. I won't own any more taurus guns, I'm done. The 357 cracked the forcing cone, very few hot loads in it. The Mil-Pro sheared off the disassembly pin.

weregunner
March 18, 2012, 12:45 AM
The old saw about "my shop does or doesn't" holds no water.
I've been to many gunshops and gun shows in this area. Taurus and other brands were sold in great numbers & available as well.

No way to verify that.

Nor does anecdotal evidence that cannot be verified.

LawScholar
March 18, 2012, 01:03 AM
The old saw about "my shop does or doesn't" holds no water.
I've been to many gunshops and gun shows in this area. Taurus and other brands were sold in great numbers & available as well.

No way to verify that.

Nor does anecdotal evidence that cannot be verified.

Well geez, man, about 99% of information on an Internet gun message board cannot be verified. I don't think it's fair to bust that fact out just when someone disagrees. All the reports of happy, satisfied Taurus owners are every bit as unverifiable. But I have no reason to lie. I have no gun company stock. I don't benefit if Taurus goes out of business. I just think the things are crap and I'll share and defend that that when a thread OP asks my opinion.

And I never said that they aren't available. They are locally available here too. I'm just saying a LGS owner I talked to a few months back quit carrying them, and in my eyes that reflects on quality, or lack thereof. That's all.

el Godfather
March 18, 2012, 01:30 AM
Its about Economics. Some gunshops can afford to send back items if their sales are huge and they want sales rather then quality sales. Some shops carry them because they fit the bill for lot of people and people go in asking for one.

Like LAWSCHOLAR, I don't hold stock in any mnf of guns that I would want Taurus to go out of business. I don't feel personal and sentimental about a brand. To me that's just silly. I place huge stock in performance of a gun, rather.

I gather lot of people just defend the brand(s) they own. Unless you are a sales rep, I suggest that welet folks decide on their experiences instead.

I am surprised that even after so many awards listed in post above, taurus is still not even a consideration for LEA any where. Not even in the developing countries who economize.

weregunner
March 18, 2012, 05:28 AM
You've obviously been not reading the memos (links).

I agree that people should make up their own minds.

If they buy Taurus,fine. If not ,fine. Just look and inspect the gun closely with the checklist that is in the links. Can't go wrong in doing that.

But have some actual facts to back things up.Sheeesh! :what:

Time to move on to real endeavors.

357 Terms
March 18, 2012, 07:30 AM
Sometimes it doesnt matter. We sold a brand new taurus that came w/ test fire casings. about two weeks later the customer brought the gun back saying he coulddnt even load it. Upon inspection it had no chamber cut in it EVER. not even a roughed chamber or a short chamber. Where did the test fire casings come from?

Thats a quote from another forum discussing spent casings. (from factory new guns)

I believe him.

The War Wagon
March 18, 2012, 07:57 AM
I KNOW Taurus has had their share of woes - it's one reason I've held off getting one of their 1911's, even though I love the feel of them in my hand.

That said, I've only owned ONE Taurus auto (and several of their revolvers) over the years - a PT100 stainless (the rare duotone, which I wish I had BACK!!!) - I bought new ca. 1992. Ran great on everything I fed it, but had to sell it about a year & a half later, for grad school expenses. :(

I've transitioned to all 1911's in .45 since then, and my opinion on Taurus is about 20 years out-of-date, in that regards, but there you have it. And all the little J-frame .38 & .357's I've owned as backup/summer casual carry pieces, have all worked fine.

Bammac
March 18, 2012, 09:46 AM
Had a Taurus .38 special long ago that had problems. A shame, because it was a great looking & feeling gun.

Considering the effort that must have gone into making it such A fine looking weapon, it seems odd that the extra steps needed to assure decent function would have been neglected. I would be more specific as to the particular problems I had, but memory fails.

As to whether or no I would purchase again, I would chance it for the right gun- If all the financial ducks were in thier respective rows- I do love the looks of some of thier offerings.

el Godfather
March 18, 2012, 03:38 PM
Weregunner, may I ask what is your fascination with Taurus?

Enlighten me why Taurus could be a better choice then Glock, CZ, Sig, HK or Colt just to name a few.

LawScholar
March 18, 2012, 04:12 PM
You've obviously been not reading the memos (links).

I agree that people should make up their own minds.

If they buy Taurus,fine. If not ,fine. Just look and inspect the gun closely with the checklist that is in the links. Can't go wrong in doing that.

But have some actual facts to back things up.Sheeesh! :what:

Time to move on to real endeavors.

I read the links. I don't pay much heed to gun magazines and only moderately to industry awards. Those are largely driven by sales and ad revenue. To me, the highest endorsement of a gun brand is if it's adopted by police or military forces. Outside of Brazil, Taurus really isn't. Even the lowly $300 Smith Sigma and Ruger P95 have been issued and served reliably.

I did have facts. :) I personally experienced 3 Tauri and they all failed.

el Godfather
March 18, 2012, 05:57 PM
I had four that failed.

That's enough information to evaluvate the mills that printed the awards.

Oldnoob
March 18, 2012, 09:03 PM
Only Taurus auto I have experience and can whole hardly recommend people to own is PT 92 series.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f185/johell/My%20gun/TaurusPT92AFS.jpg

Jaymo
March 18, 2012, 10:17 PM
Mlitaries and police departments issue guns based on price and politics.
Is that really such a great reason for a citizen to buy a particular brand?

ExTank
March 18, 2012, 11:33 PM
I had four that failed.

Define "failed."

LawScholar
March 19, 2012, 01:16 AM
Mlitaries and police departments issue guns based on price and politics.
Is that really such a great reason for a citizen to buy a particular brand?

Price and politics are part of an overall rubric including quality, officer trust, officer comfort with manual of arns, etc.

Some options, including non-domestics, which have been chosen by departments and militaries over Taurus despite even bring cheaper to buy than many Tauri:

Smith Sigma
Ruger P95
Springfield XD

To start.

If its totally the rubric that military and police carry "budget" weapons, should i ignore the hundreds of departments in the US that issue brands like Sig, HK, Kimber, etc ?

el Godfather
March 19, 2012, 02:46 AM
Price and politics are not as paramount as some people make it believe to be. Yes they play role, but after the criteria is met and choice is among the top option.

I am a politician myself, and I an say this for certain that when case is well prepared there is very little you can do.

el Godfather
March 19, 2012, 02:50 AM
ExTank
Failed= malfunctioned repeatedly, thus failed to meet my standards of a handgun should be.

I really have a hunch that slowly by slowly this poll is being cooked by certain folks. Who? I cant tell. The Moderators here will be able to tell by checking recent registrations to this forum who are either from same IPs or have not posted, just registered.

I hereby request the Mods to look in to this.

JR47
March 20, 2012, 10:39 AM
I am a politician myself, and I an say this for certain that when case is well prepared there is very little you can do.

That's just about the ONLY thing you've said that I can agree upon, sir.

Taurus doesn't manufacture guns in the United States. Virtually every LEO, and military contract let in the past one hundred years has required that the guns, ay the very least, be assembled in the United States. The assembly requirement is for LEOs, not the military, who require that the guns be built here.

Perhaps that might "affect" the choices?

I really have a hunch that slowly by slowly this poll is being cooked by certain folks.

I don't believe that guests can post, much less enter a poll. I also see where you may only vote once, after that, the current results show up.

Accordingly, it would appear that you just cannot understand why the majority of people don't have the same experience as you.

I mentioned that I own in excess of 14 Taurus handguns. I have related MY experience with them, over the past 30 years. To listen to the various posters here, most of whom have bought multiple Taurus handguns, more, it appears, as they entered the fray later in the thread, it would be literally impossible for me to not have had SEVERAL malfunctioning Taurus guns. I'm not relaying anyone else opinions, stories, or tales of woe.

I, for one, cannot believe that anyone who has such terrible experiences with a product, would continue to buy them. <edit>

FYI, Taurus handguns have been issue items in:

Brazil
Israel
Singapore
Hong Kong
The UAE

Some options, including non-domestics, which have been chosen by departments and militaries over Taurus despite even bring cheaper to buy than many Tauri:

Smith Sigma
Ruger P95
Springfield XD

NONE of these are non-domestics. All are either produced, or assembled, in the United States. Then again, the P95 was chosen for the Afghan Police, as was the Sigma. The XD, or XDM is NOT "even cheaper to buy than many Tauri". You're not even TRYING to be factual here.

Failed= malfunctioned repeatedly, thus failed to meet my standards of a handgun should be.

That, sir, is an opinion of what a handgun should be. Did you let the gun break in? You would if you owned a Kahr.

Following that criteria, most of the military M16 rifles used in Basic would be relegated to the same category.

LawScholar
March 20, 2012, 01:46 PM
That's just about the ONLY thing you've said that I can agree upon, sir.

Taurus doesn't manufacture guns in the United States. Virtually every LEO, and military contract let in the past one hundred years has required that the guns, ay the very least, be assembled in the United States. The assembly requirement is for LEOs, not the military, who require that the guns be built here.

Perhaps that might "affect" the choices?



I don't believe that guests can post, much less enter a poll. I also see where you may only vote once, after that, the current results show up.

Accordingly, it would appear that you just cannot understand why the majority of people don't have the same experience as you.

I mentioned that I own in excess of 14 Taurus handguns. I have related MY experience with them, over the past 30 years. To listen to the various posters here, most of whom have bought multiple Taurus handguns, more, it appears, as they entered the fray later in the thread, it would be literally impossible for me to not have had SEVERAL malfunctioning Taurus guns. I'm not relaying anyone else opinions, stories, or tales of woe.

I, for one, cannot believe that anyone who has such terrible experiences with a product, would continue to buy them. <edit>

FYI, Taurus handguns have been issue items in:

Brazil
Israel
Singapore
Hong Kong
The UAE



NONE of these are non-domestics. All are either produced, or assembled, in the United States. Then again, the P95 was chosen for the Afghan Police, as was the Sigma. The XD, or XDM is NOT "even cheaper to buy than many Tauri". You're not even TRYING to be factual here.



That, sir, is an opinion of what a handgun should be. Did you let the gun break in? You would if you owned a Kahr.

Following that criteria, most of the military M16 rifles used in Basic would be relegated to the same category.

Bud's Gun Shop:

Blue Steel Taurus PT92 -$458
Springfield XD - $430

One of SEVERAL Taurus service-oriented models more expensive than the XD.

Kindly don't call me a liar. I do my research before I post.

Miked7762
March 20, 2012, 01:49 PM
Taurus doesn't manufacture guns in the United States.

If you are going to complain about others not being factual perhaps you should verify if this statement is true or not.

Shipwreck
March 20, 2012, 01:52 PM
Spend your money on Taurus if you'd like. I have no problem with that. I don't trust 'em, so I won't.

It's not just guns. If I bought 3 Chevys and all broke down, I wouldn't buy any more Chevys. If I bought 3 Husky power drills and all 3 broke in a week, no more Husky.

I don't reward companies for taking a crap on me, in any industry. I don't shrug and chalk it up to bad luck, especially when it's 3 instances each a year apart.

In my personal experience, and judging by the disproportionate horror stories I've seen from Taurus owners on the various forums I read, Taurus seems to be an inferior brand. If your experiences and impressions lead you to a different conclusion and a different way to spend your money, well, that's capitalism!

This +1000

el Godfather
March 20, 2012, 03:47 PM
I am not going to spend money on stuff that fails as well. Well said.

As for breaking in, I don't buy that statement. A gun that malfunctions repeatedly in the initial stages is not going to be laying around to be used a paper weight. Breaking in can be a valid argument for the guns that are used in competition. However when I am buying a gun for SD, I want it to work right out of the box or its gone. I take SD weapons seriously.

I would like to know the soruce of your information of Taurus being issue weapon on the countries you listed, as well issue item for what? Frankly, out of the countries you listed only Israel would be my concern since they test their gear well before putting it in use. So I would like to know which Israeli force is using it, sir.

ExTank
March 20, 2012, 05:25 PM
Bud's Gun Shop:

Blue Steel Taurus PT92 -$458
Springfield XD - $430

One of SEVERAL Taurus service-oriented models more expensive than the XD.

Kindly don't call me a liar. I do my research before I post.

Fine. I won't call you a liar. Other words may come to mind, but liar isn't one of them.

You're comparing a polymer framed handgun to an all-metal handgun. Polymer's typically come in cheaper than all-metals.

If you're going to compare things, try apples-apples.

ExTank
March 20, 2012, 05:43 PM
If you are going to complain about others not being factual perhaps you should verify if this statement is true or not.

Is there a Taurus firearms manufacturing plant in the U.S.A.?

I couldn't locate one searching online. Do you have any info in that regard?

LawScholar
March 20, 2012, 06:55 PM
Fine. I won't call you a liar. Other words may come to mind, but liar isn't one of them.

You're comparing a polymer framed handgun to an all-metal handgun. Polymer's typically come in cheaper than all-metals.

If you're going to compare things, try apples-apples.

You said the XD wasn't cheaper and accused me of "not even trying" to be factual. You were wrong. Try and change the issue any way you like.

bikerdoc
March 20, 2012, 07:09 PM
Gentlemen, We call it the High Road for a reason.

Robert
March 20, 2012, 07:32 PM
Gentlemen, bikerdoc is correct. Knock of the bickering and present facts and citations without emotion or this will get locked and infractions will be issued. This is your only warning.

meanmrmustard
March 20, 2012, 08:02 PM
Had ONE Taurus: a TCP .380. POS!!! It is sold, not missed, nor would I trust it. My only regret is to the new owner.

chicharrones
March 21, 2012, 09:30 AM
Is there a Taurus firearms manufacturing plant in the U.S.A.?

I couldn't locate one searching online. Do you have any info in that regard?

Here's a tour of the US plant in Florida. Taurus does produce their small pistols in Florida due to US import regulations on small pistols.

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-armed-news/60557-taurus-international-mfg-inc-factory-tour.html

Godsgunman
March 21, 2012, 11:57 AM
Well here is my opinion and first hand experience for what its worth. I know it won't matter to the Taurus haters on here but everything I will say is factual. I have owned 4 Tauri, the Judge, a Millenium Pro PT 745, a 24/7 40 cal, and a PT 908. All very good reliable guns. I have owned other S&W and CZ handguns also and my Tauri have been just as good as those. Actually my PT 908 is more accurate and has the nicest trigger action out of any handgun I've ever owned. As far as customer service goes, I am very pleased. I had the extractor crack on my 908 and sent it in for repair. They quoted me 4 weeks but it was back in 10 days working like new. Thats pretty good if you ask me.

So I guess I'm just really lucky according to you nay-sayers, maybe I should go buy a lotto ticket then. IF you personally have had a bad experience with your Taurus then you have a right to not buy them. All you others; well I can fabricate stories of my mom's cousins' sisters' uncles' long lost grandpas' bad experience with company X's product to. This IS the highroad so lets just give straight up answers not watered down false biases.

ExTank
March 21, 2012, 06:42 PM
Nah, we're just rigging the poll to make the Glock Mafia look bad about all their Taurus-hate. :rolleyes:

meanmrmustard
March 22, 2012, 06:01 AM
And anyone can fabricate a firsthand false bias. It's about trusting each other.

LawScholar
March 22, 2012, 10:24 AM
And anyone can fabricate a firsthand false bias. It's about trusting each other.

+1. I said as much in a previous post. I have bad Taurus experience, others have good. If we assume each other is lying, there's no point to a discussion forum.

el Godfather
March 22, 2012, 03:50 PM
What's a Glock Mafia?? Come one! Try to tolerate opinions of others.

JR47
March 23, 2012, 02:28 PM
Blue Steel Taurus PT92 -$458
Springfield XD - $430
One of SEVERAL Taurus service-oriented models more expensive than the XD.
Kindly don't call me a liar. I do my research before I post.

Might I also kindly suggest that you compare the PT92 to a gun currently in production?

Buds lists both the XD and XDm on their site. They are identified as such.

The XD is no longer in production. Perhaps that's why they are priced so low?

This is the current 5" XDm XDM9241HCSP , and it's priced at $630.00.

Please, the next time that you "do your research", do it correctly, and compare guns that are both in production.

I believe that you'll find that ALL current production XDm pistols are more expensive than comparable guns from Taurus.

I didn't call you a liar, sir. However, I am accusing you of poor research techniques.

Nor have I ever said that you manufactured anything. What I said, and mean, is that there are obviously different levels of failure to different people. To some, a gun that shoots low left is a factory defect. To others, it means that your trigger work is poor. Some expect a gun to work 100% out of the box, without cleaning or lubricating, or break-in. That is their criteria. Others clean the guns, lube them, and break them in. Again, there are entirely too many variables to consider anything but a case-by-case evaluation.

I've had far more trouble with S&W, Colt, HK, and Sig over the years than I have had with Taurus, Wilson, or Baer, although I did have one Wilson returned for service. I own enough firearms that, according to my insurance company, I should rule a South American country. Yet, you won't find me haunting any of those forums, or threads, bashing the brands. :)

el Godfather
March 23, 2012, 04:35 PM
How many? just kidding.


I forgot who mentioned Israelis using Taurus.....Can that person kindly state which agency? I am very fond of Israeli weapons and admire some of their techniques.

coalman
March 23, 2012, 04:51 PM
I owned a Taurus 85 I got rediculously cheap. Worked fine. Traded it for more than I paid. With all that's available, IMO just no reason for me to own/trust a Taurus. If it's all you can afford that's better than the alternative.

ExTank
March 23, 2012, 05:09 PM
What's a Glock Mafia?? Come one! Try to tolerate opinions of others.

:rolleyes: I need to repsect the opinions of others?

I'm not the one asking the mods to investigate the poll results because I can't believe so many people can like Taurus guns.

el Godfather
March 23, 2012, 05:30 PM
ExTank, I am not going to make it personal, therefore, I will not respond to your post.

I would like this thread to continue with discussion. Still awaiting name of Isaeli agency using the Taurus. That will be more then the list of awards Taurus got, for me.

LawScholar
March 23, 2012, 06:07 PM
"The XD is no longer in production. Perhaps that's why they are priced so low?"

Do you have a cite for this? The full line is still on the SA website, Bud's has had them for ages, and all my local stores have them, as has most every gun store I've been in.

The argument is still sound with other pistols. How about the Sig Sauer SP2022? $399, even cheaper than the XD. Current production, and a much sounder reputation than the typical Taurus design.

The point being there's no reason to choose Taurus for cost. There are options of similar costs that aren't such a quality control wild card.

Police and militaries don't just buy on cost, there's a quality calculus there, and in my opinion and apparently those of agencies / militaries, Taurus has not yet satisfied that calculus.

Much as the idea of a Glock mafia is silly, so is the idea of some massive national and international conspiracy against Taurus. They'd be in more holsters in official capacities if the quality was there at a decent level of consistency. All the brands have quality control issues, yes, including Glock, Smith, Beretta, Sig, and HK. But those issues don't crop up nearly as much as with Taurus, and when they do, those companies tend to deal with them a lot better (except Beretta, and I say that as an owner who loves his. What a nightmare). That, in my opinion, is why you find those brands in thousands of holsters, but not Taurus. Not a conspiracy, not hearsay, not unfair maligning, but substandard quality control and customer service practices. If they get those taken care of, some of their fundamentally solid designs might actually get a shot to shine. Until then, I predict it'll be gimmicks like the Judge.

JR47
March 24, 2012, 11:27 AM
You are correct, Springfield is still listing the XD on their site. Until, that is, the supplies are exhausted. I called Springfield CS, and that was the answer given. All new production is in XDm.

The Sig 2022 is in use by what agency?

I would also like to point out that it was YOU who brought cost into the posting, not me.

Once more, MOST LEO organizations require that a plant for the weapons exist in America as a qualification for bidding. ALL of the military bids are worded that way.

Glock was unable to bid due, in part, to that, and to the fact that the military doesn't consider the trigger safety to be a safety.

But those issues don't crop up nearly as much as with Taurus, and when they do, those companies tend to deal with them a lot better (except Beretta, and I say that as an owner who loves his. What a nightmare). That, in my opinion, is why you find those brands in thousands of holsters, but not Taurus.

There are options of similar costs that aren't such a quality control wild card.


Nobody has presented anything but anecdotal evidence to this thread. To actually be able to prove what is conjectured, wished, or accused, there needs to be hard proof. That is markedly missing.

Until that is provided, this is simply a discussion of opinion, and will never arrive at a factual answer.

As for LEO use in America, the Prince George's County PD, Baltimore City PD, Howard County PD, and multiple other police departments carry Taurus revolvers and semi-autos on their list of approved off-duty carry.

As near as my contact in the Israeli Embassy can determine, while doing his REAL job, is that several Kibbutz militias issued the Taurus PT92. He also added that it's quite possible that, in years past, the PT92 was also issued to the Civilian Guard Units, or the Volunteers of the Traffic Unit.

It appears that there are 100,000+ volunteers in the Israeli Police, armed.

I hope that helps.:)

el Godfather
March 28, 2012, 09:04 AM
List of aaproved "off" duty gun doesn't mean anything.

njcioffi
March 28, 2012, 04:17 PM
I have had several Tuari (?) over the years, and no issues. I currently have a PT1911, and it is the straightest shooting and most reliable 1911 I have owned. I have no complaints abou tit at all.

A friend of mine recently bought a Tracker in .22lr, and it was a lemon. spent a lot of time trying to get it to function, to no avail. I have a tracker in .44M, and it purrs.

I have had a few guns that have really let me down in the past...2 rugers (mini 14, bolt split lengthwise...SBH, weird cycling issues), S&W K frame (forcing cone exploded), and a Walther PPKs (also technically a S&W...wouldnt shoot 7 times in a row without feed problems).

el Godfather
September 27, 2013, 05:42 PM
Bump

spanishjames
September 27, 2013, 05:56 PM
Just curious, why bump this thread?

el Godfather
September 27, 2013, 06:16 PM
To see if there is any change in opinion after the new products launched by Taurus.

armsmaster270
September 27, 2013, 06:37 PM
Hit & miss some are excellent, some are junk.

Henryfan1
September 27, 2013, 07:03 PM
Personally, I have had nothing but bad luck with them with multiple trips to the factory.

allin
September 28, 2013, 06:19 AM
I have owned and shot Taurus guns for many years (25) I have several revolvers (38 & 357 & 22) and a PT92, a PT1911, and a 24/7 Pro 45ACP. The revolvers are 2" Poly 38, 3" 38, 4" 357, and 6" 357 & 4" 22lr. I also own Smiths and Springfield and Remington. People should "get off the bashing". I bought a Hi Point 9mm just to see what everyone was bitching about. The gun shoots fine. Get life, go out shooting, have fun, enjoy your sport. If everyone preferred the same gun there would not be so many different ones made. Same thing for cars!!:neener:

TimboKhan
September 28, 2013, 07:11 PM
Closing this. This is 10 pages of what boils down to either hate/love opinions. Someone who hates Taurus isn't going to change because of new models, nor is someone who loves them.

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