gunsmith kept my part....


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rod5591
February 19, 2012, 12:18 PM
I bought a Rock Island 1911 and asked the gunsmith to replace the recoil spring to one a little heavier. He did but when I picked up the gun, and asked for the replaced spring, he said that he had tossed it, "I just didn't think about keeping it" he said. He said he would order one for me, it would take 2 weeks to get it.

How likely is it in your view that an experienced gunsmith would "forget" and toss out a factory new recoil spring? I feel like he kept it and/or sold it and did not want to say. Am I too suspicious?

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Gunnerboy
February 19, 2012, 12:32 PM
every gunsmith i know keeps everthing even broken parts so sounds like he kept it

MikeRussell
February 19, 2012, 12:42 PM
Kept it or tossed it, either way...why did you need to go to a gunsmith to have your recoil spring swapped? You could've ordered one and swapped it yourself and there would've been no missing part and more importantly, no charge.

rod5591
February 19, 2012, 12:50 PM
Kept it or tossed it, either way...why did you need to go to a gunsmith to have your recoil spring swapped? You could've ordered one and swapped it yourself and there would've been no missing part and more importantly, no charge.
because I don't know what I am doing yet. But I'm going to learn. Any suggestions on how I can identity and obtain the correct tools, and learn how to do stuff like replace recoil springs and firing pins? any good gunsmithing sites? or courses?

rcmodel
February 19, 2012, 01:49 PM
Tools?
Your bare hands is all you need to change recoil springs on a 1911.

The firing pin will likely last longer then you will.
But even if it doesn't, you can change it with nothing more then a ball point pin to push it in past the FP retainer plate on the back of the slide and pull it down.

rc

triggerman770
February 19, 2012, 02:11 PM
I always ask if my customers want their old parts back even if they are broken. so even if he has to order it tell him to do so. he needs to repace it at his expense.
as to
quote"because I don't know what I am doing yet. But I'm going to learn. Any suggestions on how I can identity and obtain the correct tools, and learn how to do stuff like replace recoil springs and firing pins? any good gunsmithing sites? or courses?"
step one is to get the Jerry Kuenhousen book on the 1911.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/199119/the-colt-45-automatic-a-shop-manual-volume-1-book-by-jerry-kuhnhausen.
read it, and decide what you need

Jim K
February 19, 2012, 02:47 PM
I wonder why people buy a gun and before even firing a shot, want to replace all the parts.

Jim

triggerman770
February 19, 2012, 02:57 PM
me too, Jim. I have a customer that just bought a new gun to me for duracoating and wants all of the controls replaced with stainless parts and all of the springs changed. Told him to shoot it first but he didn't.
I also wonder why poeple by new guns and have a problem and go to the internet first instead of using the warranty.

Old Fuff
February 19, 2012, 03:03 PM
But I'm going to learn. Any suggestions on how I can identity and obtain the correct tools, and learn how to do stuff like replace recoil springs and firing pins? any good gunsmithing sites? or courses?

Start by going to Brownells - who supply the gunsmithing trade with just about everything they need and then some. While you visit order a copy of their print catalog. (www.brownells.com).

Also while at Brownells order a copy of this book:

The Colt .45 Automatic - A Shop Manual, by Jerry Kuhnhausen. Read it and you will become very smart. :cool:

It's a little late to tell you but if your pistol is new it's unlikely you need a new recoil spring, and installing a heavier one can have some negative affects. Don't switch out parts until you know what you're doing, and if or when you are in doubt start a thread on THR and ask first before you jump.

Jim K
February 19, 2012, 03:04 PM
I would like to think it is because we are so smart (and many of the folks here and on other sites are real experts), but I have seen some really dumb responses, including ones that could get someone injured or even killed. Some folks need to recognize that replies "on the net" (my own included) are worth exactly what they cost.

Jim

Drail
February 19, 2012, 05:56 PM
The book is by Jerry Kuhnhausen. And you NEED this book. It will save you lots of money if you work on your gun.

jblackfish
February 20, 2012, 09:48 AM
Rod5591, I agree that you need a book for reference and the Kuhnhausen is a good one. Even though a "picture is worth 1000 words," a movie is even better. You can also benefit from some of the You Tube videos (assuming you have access to a p-c) that show how simple field stripping a 1911 can be. For example, try this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEBrkF0sMgI ...and there are many others. Don't be discouraged - take your time and you'll do fine.

Be sure to wear eye protection - this guy points things at the face to show what he's doing but some of the parts can pop off in your eye.

hang fire
February 20, 2012, 03:21 PM
Here is a good animation for assembly of the 1911.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoohXVsQ1NU&hl=en

earlthegoat2
February 21, 2012, 04:36 AM
My question is, Why the fright would any gunsmith keep a recoil spring from a RIA 1911 and then lie about it?

I mean, did he have another project in mind and needed a new Filipino spring to complete it?

JohnhenrySTL
February 21, 2012, 04:52 AM
Recoil springs are very cheap. Today I priced them through Sig, they were three for twelve bucks. I doubt he stole it. I think, in a humble tone, if you are to shoot and own a pistol, you should learn to atleast field strip it. I believ:neener:e you have nothing to worry about.

Old Shooter
February 21, 2012, 07:34 AM
He might have racked the slide and thought it was just fine as-is. Didn't do a thing to it and handed it back to you with the bill. That's why there is no old spring to give you. He said it will take two weeks to get another spring... did he have your pistol for two weeks waiting for the one he "installed"? And if he did have to wait two weeks would he have tossed the perfectly good new one he just removed from your pistol? I think not.

(Brand-new gun, novice shooter, not going to know what was done iif anything)

Frogomatik
February 21, 2012, 03:04 PM
might just be me, but I never throw any parts away, broken or otherwise. The customer gets back everything they brought to me. Now I have had customers tell me to just throw stuff away, but that's after the work is done, and they've had the option to keep it.

mavracer
February 21, 2012, 03:12 PM
because I don't know what I am doing yet. But I'm going to learn. Any suggestions on how I can identity and obtain the correct tools, and learn how to do stuff like replace recoil springs and firing pins? any good gunsmithing sites? or courses?
And yet you know more than Rock Island on what spring to put in the gun:banghead:

But yes he should return or replace spring.

Jim K
February 21, 2012, 03:15 PM
I returned most parts, but tossed things like buggered screws and battered pins. I can't imagine anyone wanting a beat up trigger guard pin or broken V trigger spring from an H&R revolver.

Jim

SlamFire1
February 21, 2012, 05:54 PM
I learned early on not to include "extra" parts as you won't necessarily get them back.

Many gunsmiths love parts, love building their inventory. Give them an excuse and they will keep your old parts. After all, you don't "need it" any more.

I have lost Win M70 barrels and trigger mechanisms. Had the gunsmith convert an action into a match rifle, new Jewel trigger. Did not get the old trigger back or the factory barrel on that receiver. Next time, I took off the factory trigger and specifically requested the factory barrel back, and did not send him a factory stock.


I now take pictures of everything I send to gunsmiths. These buggers will take months and months to get around to your project and you will forget what you sent him. They will forget what you sent them. The picture reminds me of what was sent.

lathedog
February 23, 2012, 11:28 AM
I think that returning your old/replaced part is a better practice in general for any repair/upgrade industry.

Having said that, I would give benefit of doubt that someone you trust enough to work on your gun would not try to "rip you off" to the tune of a used OEM recoil spring. It's not like a barrel or some other significant part, which would perhaps tempt a gunsmith. Recoil Spring?

I have an RIA 1911 and there were/are many disturbing things inside. I cleaned it up a lot, and replaced a few parts that were unserviceable as it came from the factory. My recoil spring was OK (not great, but OK), but maybe yours was kinked or had a weird bend or something. I can very well believe that you 'smith took one look and tossed it in the trash. After all, a spring is a throw-away and replace item. If it is no good, it cannot really be made to become good again.

I honestly believe that in the future you may laugh at this when you look back and wonder why you thought this was at all significant.

highorder
February 23, 2012, 11:55 AM
He might have racked the slide and thought it was just fine as-is. Didn't do a thing to it and handed it back to you with the bill. That's why there is no old spring to give you.

That was my first thought.

Which new spring did you want? a different weight? Why?

I think he either lost your OEM or never replaced it.
What did he charge you for this 90 second job?...

mjsdwash
February 23, 2012, 09:25 PM
Ria recoil springs are lowest bidder items, your better off without it, even so, read your owners manual, it covers things like this (recoil spring is completely removed for cleaning, as is firing pin, and nearly everything inside)

simmonsguns
February 24, 2012, 04:05 PM
If you don't give the customer there old parts back, what you end up with after 60 years in the same building is boxes and boxes of broken rusty crap. i return old parts, good or broken because it's taken me 3 years of going through all thoes old boxes from all thoes old gunsmiths.

45_auto
February 24, 2012, 06:29 PM
The recoil spring is a $2 consumable item. Kind of like asking for your old oil and filter back when you get the oil in your car changed. I never keep used springs around, it's just asking for them to get mixed up with the good stuff. The gunsmith probably tossed it without a second thought.

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