Need help with M1 Garand 30-06 load


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wolfe
February 19, 2012, 03:07 PM
i bought a M1 Garand and after I loaded up some 30-06 rounds it didn't cycle properly.

I have been told it could be a number of things but one guy I trust said my loads might have been a little weak.

Loaded 147gr boattail bullets, H4895 46.0 grs..

Any opinions? Or what is the PERFECT powder for loading M1 Garands....

Thanks in advance

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rondog
February 19, 2012, 03:14 PM
I'm no expert by far, but an M1 load I've read often is 150gr. flat-base FMJ's over 47gr. of IMR4895. That's supposed to be real close to the standard M2 ball load, AFAIK.

dmazur
February 19, 2012, 03:30 PM
Here's a link that is often used to answer questions about M1 Garand loads -

Master Po's M1 Loads (http://web.archive.org/web/20000620055732/home.att.net/~Masterpo/M1load.htm)

I use 46.0gr of Varget with 150gr FMJBT, and an adjustable gas plug.

I'm not sure if there is such a thing as a perfect powder for the Garand. There are some that are so far outside the correct pressure range that they are either unworkable or unsafe, but there are a lot in the middle.

Edit: The link above works for Master Po's NRA data...no adware

rcmodel
February 19, 2012, 03:44 PM
Apparently the Military thought IMR-4895 was ideal.
That was one of the powders used in the Caliber .30 M1 152 grain Tracer load. (50.0 grains)

Also the 152 grain M2 ball load. (50.0 grains)

And the M2 166 grain Armor Piercing. (55.0 grains)

The M14 151 grain Armor Piercing Incendiary. (50.0 grains.

The M25 146 grain M25 Tracer. (50.0 grains)

And the 176 grain M72 Match. (50.0 grains)

But IMR-4895 is not the same as H-4895.

Still I think you might be a little light if the M1 is short stroking.

rc

wolfe
February 19, 2012, 03:51 PM
Excellent... Thanks for the info.. i wish i would have bought IMR-4895. I think I'll be able to find some IMR-4895

rcmodel
February 19, 2012, 03:58 PM
I would bump it up a grain or two and see if if functions with H-4895 before rushing right out to buy something else.

Hodgdon says the 150 & 155 grain starting load is 46.0 grains.
Max is 51.0 grains.

Anyway, H-4895 started out years ago when Bruce Hodgdon bought rail cars full of surplus 30-06 powder from the government after WWII, and started selling it in drums, cardboard cans & paper bags.

It worked fine in M1's to fight WWII & Korea with, so it should still work fine now.

Unless you have a gun problem, not a powder charge problem.

rc

wolfe
February 19, 2012, 04:17 PM
Very well could have a problem with the gas block and since I bought it January 1 and first time I fired it was last week there is no telling.

Suggestions? Think I should buy a new adjustable gas plug?

rcmodel
February 19, 2012, 04:43 PM
No, I think you should bump up the load like I said before, at least past the starting load a couple of grains, and go try it again.

You have no way to know if you need an adjustable gas plug or not till you get enough gas to cycle the action.

Your only other option is to buy some 30-06 mil-sup or comercial M1 ammo and see if it works with mil-spec ammo or not.
http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/20-rds-box-30-06-springfield-winchester-mil-spec-147-grain-fmj-ammo-usa3006

Matter of fact, that would be a great idea to see if it works with mil-sup or mil-spec ammo before you start fixing what isn't broke.

rc

wolfe
February 19, 2012, 04:43 PM
thx

springer99
February 19, 2012, 05:33 PM
My standard match load is 46.5gr of H4895 with a Hornady 150gr FMJBT in the nose. H4895 and IMR4895 are very close in performance. Your M1 should cycle fine with loads even lighter than that without a problem.

Without having more information about exactly what it isn't doing, makes it tough to suggest a solution, but I doubt it's your load. First things I'd do is make sure it's lubed correctly, then maybe a tear-down and see how bad the carbon build-up is on the end of the op. rod.

cfullgraf
February 19, 2012, 07:15 PM
i bought a M1 Garand and after I loaded up some 30-06 rounds it didn't cycle properly.



I assume that you have thoroughly cleaned your M1. Old grease and preservatives on the mechanisms of the rifle can restrict cycling.

While lubrication and grease are the M1's friend, too much in the recoil spring tube in the op rod can restrict cycling. It kind of acts like a shock absorber.

Your load is around what i shoot in my M1 so it is fine.

If you shoot Garand safe powders and Garand safe loads, an adjustable gas plug is not necessary. IMR4895, H4895, and Varget are three good powders for the M1. There are a few others.

An adjustable gas plug is needed if you want to shoot current day hunting ammunition in your M1. Today's ammunition is generally loaded with slightly slower powders that what the M1 was designed for and the port pressure will be too high. Without the adjustable gas plug to relieve some of the pressure, you risk bending the op rod.

beefyz
February 19, 2012, 08:48 PM
I shoot & reload for a garand. i'll side with Rc & Cfull graf. you're load is within parameters. it might not be as high as what some believe a "battle load" of the same powder was, but your load is certainly enough to make a garand function. Traditionally, garand loads function around imr/h 4895 & imr 4064. If you can't get a garand to shoot around them, you have bigger problems. RCs suggestion about getting some mil surplus(HXP) is a good one. if you belong to a club somebody is bound to have some of that. and ironically, alot of us who shoot a garand regularly have heard/seen instances where the HXPs loads were a bit "hot". if it functions with mil surplus,then i might suggest you look into your reloading technique for the garand. it CAN be finicky about reloads. and as suggested, a good cleaning/lubing should be done first. a shuster or mc cann is not needed to diagnose your problem. i don't use them anyway. its more challenging and fun to reload what the beauty was made for and shoot your own.

SlamFire1
February 19, 2012, 10:01 PM
I most emphatically do not think your load is too mild. GI ball was not hot, was not a magnum load, your load has been shot by many, and it is fine in your rifle.

If you are having short stroking issues with a 150 and 46.0 grs H4895, your problem is related to the gas system.

The most common issue is a worn gas cylinder or a worn operating rod piston. There are gas cylinder gages, used to be available from the CMP, and you can measure your operating rod piston with a caliper. You will have to look up the values as I don't have them memorized.

M1 Garand BMR Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist

150 gr FMJBT 1966 Ball

14 Nov 2011 T= 74 F

Ave Vel = 2545
Std Dev = 20
ES = 68
Low = 2513
High = 2581
N = 8


174 FMJBT White Box 1968 NM M72, Headstamp LC67 match, box velocity 2640 fps

14 Nov 2011 T = 74 F

Ave Vel = 2592
Std Dev = 28
ES = 103
High = 2647
Low = 2544
N = 10






Apparently the Military thought IMR-4895 was ideal.
That was one of the powders used in the Caliber .30 M1 152 grain Tracer load. (50.0 grains)

Also the 152 grain M2 ball load. (50.0 grains)

And the M2 166 grain Armor Piercing. (55.0 grains)

The M14 151 grain Armor Piercing Incendiary. (50.0 grains.

The M25 146 grain M25 Tracer. (50.0 grains)

And the 176 grain M72 Match. (50.0 grains)

But IMR-4895 is not the same as H-4895.

Still I think you might be a little light if the M1 is short stroking.

RC: EEK! Do not quote powder charges from TM manuals. I believe you got your data from one of the dash numbers of this TM: TM 43-000 l-27 ,TECHNICAL MANUAL, ARMY AMMUNITION DATA SHEETS, SMALL CALIBER AMMUNITION

These manuals are not reloading manuals. This manual may have powders and weights listed but the powders are not the blended powders that we use. Weight levels varied by powder lot. Army powder was accepted with pressure and velocity data, and a data sheet accompained the powder lot to the ammunition plant. Anyone putting 50 grains of commercial IMR 4895 behind a 150 gr bullet would get a “real load” in their Garand. A real bad load.

poco loco
February 20, 2012, 12:25 AM
actually Hodgdon's site shows from 49 min to 53 max for a Nosler 150g BT, the only 150g bullet they have listed.....


(http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp)

poco loco
February 20, 2012, 12:26 AM
dang link didn't work, lets try againhttp://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

ArchAngelCD
February 20, 2012, 05:50 AM
actually Hodgdon's site shows from 49 min to 53 max for a Nosler 150g BT, the only 150g bullet they have listed.....


(http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp)
The data on the Hodgdon site is fine for bolt action rifles but not designed for use in a M1 Garand. You don't want to generate too much pressure in a Garand.

As for the OP's load of 46.0gr H4895, that should be almost perfect in a Garand. I have shot hundreds and hundreds of rounds with that exact load of 46.0gr H4895 with a 150gr bullet. The current Hornady manual has a section in their 30-06 data specifically written for the Garand. Their Max for H4895 and a 150gr bullet is 46.4gr. Something other than the powder charge is causing the problem. I'm 100% sure 46.0gr H4895 with a 150gr bullet will shoot very well in a properly functioning M1 Garand.

IMO the best powders for Garand ammo are H4895, IMR4895, IMR4064, AA2495 and AA2520.

SlamFire1
February 20, 2012, 11:40 AM
If you have to start somewhere for load data, Master Po's temple has a collection of NRA loading data for the Garand.

I deleted the URL to Master Po's as I have been informed it is infested with malware.

Still, having shot 10's of thousands of rounds through Garands, it is my opinion that with a 150, 47.5 grains IMR 4895 is a max.

Pressure wise, the locking mechanism can take more. Recoil wise, you speed up the operating rod much faster you will experience bent operating rods, excessive peening in the receiver heel, and mal functions. There were lots of malfunctions with the 2001 Garand Match ammunition, that stuff was clocking 2900 fps and the CMP had to tone down the ammunition from all the complaints they had.

If you notice with the data from Master Po, the heavier the bullet the more you have to cut the charge. This is directly related to gas port pressure.

The specification you see about GI ammunition being 2750 fps +- 50 fps is only true in one Frankfort Arsenal pressure barrel. (My guess as to a FA barrel, but it was one barrel) All ammunition acceptance was calibrated to that pressure barrel. That pressure barrel was not a Garand.

The best way to determine the proper velocities for a Garand is to shoot US GI ammo, the earlier the better, when the Garand was pulled from service all that was left was machine guns and I believe the ammunition started getting hotter. You will find that once you chronograph 50's vintage US GI 30-06 the velocities with 150's are about 2600-2650 in a Garand.

wolfe
February 23, 2012, 12:16 AM
Well Glad to hear I was using about the right load. My bullets were actually 147 gr with 46.0 gr of H4895. I was told that H4895 might be to slow buring but i'll take your word on it as it is what I load my Rem 700 .308.

I think I discovered my cycling issue. I took it to a gunsmith when I bought it. I had one of the guys that maintains the local VFW color guard rifles and he stripped it down at the gun club tonight. When we took the operating rod out it had a really slight bend to it.

I was afraid that my loads might have been too hot and damaged the rod (shot 16 rounds last week to determine it didn't cycle). From the info I read it doesn't appear to be too hot.

So I have learned and expensive lesson. Over $130 less from what I see the going rate for a springfield operating rod is going for.

I am also going to invest in an adjustable gas plug so I can allow for hotter loads..

Glad to finally have a thread people want to talk about.

ArchAngelCD
February 23, 2012, 12:32 AM
Wolfe, I don't know who told you 4895 was too slow a powder for M1 30-06 ammo but they are totally wrong. 4895 was developed specifically for military 30-06 ammo.

You can also use Varget and IMR4064 without any worries. AA4064 is similar to IMR4064 and AA2495 is almost the same exact powder as 4895. AA2520 is the Ball Powder equivalent to 4895 and is nicknamed "The Camp Perry Powder." All those powder are perfectly safe in the Garand and will produce accurate ammo, choose and enjoy! BTW, those aren't the only powders that can be used but they are the only ones I'm sure of. According to the charts Reloader 12 and 15 are right in the middle of the powders I listed but I have never used them. I'm sure other reloaders will chime in and tell us about the Alliant, VV and Ramshot powders that are safe to use in the Garand.
I am also going to invest in an adjustable gas plug so I can allow for hotter loads..
It's not how "hot" a load is that will bend the op-rod, it's the powder burn rate that is the problem. A slower powder is still building pressure when the bullet passes the hole on the barrel that bleeds off pressure to operate the action. Slower powders will punish the rifle and cause problems. The powders I listed above are in the correct burn rate range for the Garand. You did not bend your op-rod with the load you shot in that rifle!!! If it's bent it was bent when you bought it.

bigedp51
February 23, 2012, 12:34 AM
The op rod is made with two bends in it which is normal, what you want to check for is to see if the op rod is binding by doing the tilt test and also check the gas system for wear. (undersized piston and over sized gas cylinder)

It could be as simple as proper greasing that is causing your problem.

Demos
February 23, 2012, 12:44 AM
The Hornady reloading manuals have a Garand specific section in them and it covers a pretty wide selection of bullet weights.

ArchAngelCD
February 23, 2012, 12:46 AM
The op rod is made with two bends in it which is normal, what you want to check for is to see if the op rod is binding by doing the tilt test and also check the gas system for wear. (undersized piston and over sized gas cylinder)

It could be as simple as proper greasing that is causing your problem.
I agree. When you said someone who knew about Garands said the rod was bent I thought it was bent where it shouldn't be.

cfullgraf
February 23, 2012, 08:20 AM
Right, the M1's op rod is bent by designed.

But, it is one of the reasons it can get bent out of spec with improper loads. The bends make it weaker and easier to bend out of spec. As said, if the gas port pressure is too high, you run the risk of bending the op rod.

There is an outfit in Ohio that has the jigs and tools to repair op rods.

wolfe
February 23, 2012, 11:38 PM
well the bend is very, very slight but noticable. Thanks for all the info...

What is the TILT test?

dmazur
February 24, 2012, 02:11 AM
As I understand it, the "tilt test" is a check for operating rod bind.

To perform it, you need to remove the operating rod spring, then reassemble the bolt and operating rod without the spring. See -

http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/assemblyhtml/reassemblefeed2.html

An excerpt that describes the tilt test:

Then tilt the weapon forward and backward. If the Bolt and Operating Rod do not slide easily as a unit (using the force of gravity alone) then something is out of place.

There are quite a few reasons why a M1 might fail the tilt test, including a rear handguard that hits the operating rod nearer the handle, or a front handguard that hits the operating rod nearer the piston end. If the operating rod is in spec, then the wood has warped or swelled and must be relieved carefully. However, if the operating rod is bent, it can be sent out to a specialist who has the correct jig to use to return it to the correct shape.

ArchAngelCD
February 24, 2012, 04:44 AM
well the bend is very, very slight but noticable. Thanks for all the info...

What is the TILT test?
In that case your rod may not be damaged.

The Garand while very reliable does need grease where it needs grease for it to cycle properly. I use white lithium grease to lube my Garand. Use a small brush and lightly "paint" some grease along the channel where the bolt rides and in the channels where the action rides up and down. (probably not the correct name for the parts) It's fairly straight forward, where there's a channel lightly paint it with lithium. See if that makes your problem go away, I have a feeling it will as long as there's no damage anywhere else...

USSR
February 24, 2012, 09:45 AM
...Do not quote powder charges from TM manuals. I believe you got your data from one of the dash numbers of this TM: TM 43-000 l-27 ,TECHNICAL MANUAL, ARMY AMMUNITION DATA SHEETS, SMALL CALIBER AMMUNITION

These manuals are not reloading manuals. This manual may have powders and weights listed but the powders are not the blended powders that we use. Weight levels varied by powder lot. Army powder was accepted with pressure and velocity data, and a data sheet accompained the powder lot to the ammunition plant.

It's not even a question of the powders being blended or cannister grade - That load data is flat out WRONG! I have the actual load data used for various years of M72 Match ammo (Yes, the charge weights varied from one year to the next due to different lots of powder), and they NEVER loaded them with 50.0gr of IMR4895! So, with this glaring error, it brings into question the accuracy of any of the load data contained in that data sheet.

Don

SlamFire1
February 24, 2012, 09:52 AM
Operating rods are long and not very stiff. I am certain they "flex" in normal operation. Slow powders and high port pressures will flex them more, and when they stop, at the end of their travel, the cumulative impact will put a permanent set in the operating rod..

When the operating rod starts touching the upper ferrule, upper handguard, it is bent and has to be rebent so that it is not wacking things during its travel.

That is when you break out your Kunhausen, study the pictures, put the operating rod in the wooden blocks in the vise, and study the pictures. Think about where to bend, where to place the operating rod in the wooden blocks, study the pictures again, put a little force in the right direction on the operating rod, take it out, put it in the gun, see if that fixed it, if not, study the pictures again, put the operating rod in the wooden blocks on your vise, study the pictures again, move the operating rod in the wooden blocks, put a little force on the operating rod.

wolfe
March 3, 2012, 11:48 PM
well I am still experimenting. Looks like a portion of my problem with the M1 short stroking was my brass wasn't sized properly. When I bought it, it was suppose to have been sized and decapped must not have been sized.

Got another batch 46.9 grains of H4895 to try tomorrow.

P-32
March 4, 2012, 12:26 AM
A very dry op rod spring can cause short stroking on the M1. Lightly grease the outside coils of the spring and call it good. Everybody has their own ideas of what grease to use. Im going to say the M1 is not particular to any brand as long as the parts are lubed. I use Seal Glide found at your local Napa store.
I do have to ask, is your gas plug tight? A good tool for the gas plug is a inch ratchet with a short extension on it. (I'm not talking about the early slotted plug.)
I have found my M1s like IMR 4064 across the board. I also have shot the 147 FMJ with IMR 3031 with stellar results.

dmazur
March 4, 2012, 12:29 AM
Resizing for gas guns is critical. There are lots of posts on this forum about Garands and headspace.

Also, you can read

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/gasgunreload.cfm

which is a pretty good introduction to the special problems which are involved.

IMO, in order of increasing challenge, there are 3 kinds of reloading

1. Reloading for straight wall cartridges
2. Reloading bottleneck cartridges
3. Reloading bottleneck cartridges for gas guns

The reason why I mention this is because I had quite a few years of #1 under my belt and a little bit of #2 and I thought I knew what I was doing. Fortunately, I read up on Garands and learned there was a little more to it.
So far I have managed to stay out of trouble...

ArchAngelCD
March 4, 2012, 03:46 AM
well I am still experimenting. Looks like a portion of my problem with the M1 short stroking was my brass wasn't sized properly. When I bought it, it was suppose to have been sized and decapped must not have been sized.

Got another batch 46.9 grains of H4895 to try tomorrow.
I would have stopped at 46.4gr H4895 like listed in the M1 Garand ammo section of the current Hornady manual.

wolfe
March 4, 2012, 04:59 PM
Thanks archangel. I'll back off my powder drop a couple of turns.

I'll also try the operating rod...

This kind of problem makes all the info about reloading more important...

Thanks for all the help.

bigedp51
March 4, 2012, 05:20 PM
The last time out to the range I was shooting 46.0 and 46.5 grains of H4895 without any problems with cycling on my well greased M1. ;)

wolfe
March 4, 2012, 07:25 PM
I think I need to grease the spring and also I need opinions on crimping the next of the cartridge. I had a jam today and I think it might have caught on the neck

james layman
March 4, 2012, 08:00 PM
Wolfe I had a hair pulling experience of short cycling. It turned out to be the gas cylinder. The front end gauged o.k. It was hard to find someone with the rear gauge, where the gas was leaking. Maybe this will help. James

Pendy
March 5, 2012, 08:06 AM
I think I need to grease the spring and also I need opinions on crimping the next of the cartridge. I had a jam today and I think it might have caught on the neck
Does this mean you were able to shoot some with it cycling correctly, or did it jam after your first shot?

The only thing I can think of that hasn't been asked/covered by other posters is: Is it possible that your Garand already has an adjustable gas plug that just needs adjusting to your load?

I use 46gr IMR 4895 under 147gr BT (Israeli pull-downs from RMR) with great results. I haven't used H4895, but the Hornady manual states 43.2 - 46.4gr for a 150gr bullet. You're within the load ranges at 46gr, but at the high end. If it is not an adjustable gas plug, maybe back down 1gr. since you use a slightly lighter bullet, and even another 1gr if you are using military brass.

As far as crimping, don't smash the brass against the bullet, but crimp just enough so that it doesn't turn in the case neck. If it doesn't crimp in the cannelure, that's fine. As long as you are at the correct COAL and it is crimped, you will be fine.

USSR
March 5, 2012, 09:20 AM
46.0gr of 4895 is an EXCEEDING light load for 147gr FMJBT's! From 1957 to 1966, the gov't loaded M72 Match ammo with it's 174gr bullet with anywhere's from 46.0 to 48.5gr of 4895. While you are using Hodgdon's version of 4895, there's not that much difference between the two. I run 49.0gr of surplus 4895 with my 147's, which actually weigh ~ 144gr. Personally, I would up your charge weight to 47.0gr and see if the problem goes away.

Don

ArchAngelCD
March 5, 2012, 06:12 PM
46.0gr of 4895 is an EXCEEDING light load for 147gr FMJBT's! From 1957 to 1966, the gov't loaded M72 Match ammo with it's 174gr bullet with anywhere's from 46.0 to 48.5gr of 4895. While you are using Hodgdon's version of 4895, there's not that much difference between the two. I run 49.0gr of surplus 4895 with my 147's, which actually weigh ~ 144gr. Personally, I would up your charge weight to 47.0gr and see if the problem goes away.

Don
46.0gr H4895 isn't all that light although it doesn't produce the same velocity of the original military load but then again, we aren't shooting at someone trying to kill us, only at paper. The difference in charge weights between H4895 and IMR4895 can be between .5gr and 1.0gr.

IMO when shooting a Garand at matches accuracy is more important than matching military velocities.

USSR
March 5, 2012, 06:33 PM
46.0gr H4895 isn't all that light although it doesn't produce the same velocity of the original military load but then again, we aren't shooting at someone trying to kill us, only at paper.

Well, then how do you explain the 46.0 - 48.5gr load of 4895 used in USGI M72 Match ammo with a 174gr bullet, that was used only for shooting at paper? Again, with his problem, I would try more powder.

Don

wolfe
March 6, 2012, 08:50 PM
I got a couple off the other day and actually got a whole clip off with only one short stroke. This is with the 46.9 gr of H4895. The last two problems I had is with the brass catching and locking it up.

I have 3 clips loaded up and going to try them out this week if possible. I might have to grease the spring again.

If that doesn't work I am going to take some time and think about it some more.. In fact if these don't work I am going to buy some Hornady M1 Garand loades and see what happens...

ArchAngelCD
March 7, 2012, 12:38 AM
Well, then how do you explain the 46.0 - 48.5gr load of 4895 used in USGI M72 Match ammo with a 174gr bullet, that was used only for shooting at paper? Again, with his problem, I would try more powder.

Don
Was that ammo shot from a Garand of a bolt action rifle?

USSR
March 7, 2012, 10:57 AM
Was that ammo shot from a Garand of a bolt action rifle?


Both. I'm at work now, so no access to a box, but I believe it is listed at 2640fps at the 78' that the gov't tests at. Add about 40fps for the typical 10' spacing that we use with chronys.

Don

ArchAngelCD
March 7, 2012, 01:26 PM
USSR,
You can use any load you want in your rifles but when someone posts a question about "safe" ammo for their Garand I'm going to tell them what's considered perfectly safe. Sure you can add a little more powder for additional velocity but like I said, Why?

USSR
March 7, 2012, 01:50 PM
USSR,
You can use any load you want in your rifles but when someone posts a question about "safe" ammo for their Garand I'm going to tell them what's considered perfectly safe. Sure you can add a little more powder for additional velocity but like I said, Why?

Arch,

It's not just a question of "Me" adding more powder for Garand "safe" loads, it's a question of the U.S. government doing it as well. If you want to load light loads, fine. Just realize them for what they are; loads that are lighter than USGI loads. And for a guy who is having cycling problems with light loads, the obvious first step is to bring your loads up to pressure levels that the rifle was designed to operate at to see if that is what the problem is. Just MHO.

Don

ArchAngelCD
March 7, 2012, 02:07 PM
46.4gr is the load give by Hornady in their newest manual. That load will not cause feeding problems. I can't find the paperwork on the velocity readings I got with 46.0gr and 46.4gr in my Garand but I "think" it was right around 2600 fps with the 46.0gr load but I couldn't swear to that because I can't find the numbers. I did remember wanting to use the 46.4gr load in the future but I have absolutely no feed problems with the 46.0gr load and all the brass was well clear of the area when fired.

You're acting like that load is a youth load or something like that. Remember, I'm not talking about IRM4895 but the Hodgdon offering.

wolfe
March 8, 2012, 06:02 PM
Sounds like I need to drop my load from 46.9 to 46.4 grains....

I have 24 rounds loaded with 46.9, i am going to be sure those don't short stroke but not until after I break it down again and check the "tilt test".

I'll let you know the results...

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