Automatic Transmission Fluid?


PDA






Ishoot1st
February 19, 2012, 10:45 PM
How many of you guys use ATF on your guns to clean/lube them. I have a buddy that swairs by it, but i just wanted a few more opinions before i dunk my guns in a fluid made for automobiles! But it sure is cheap, so it sounds like a good solution to those having to clean guns often.

If you enjoyed reading about "Automatic Transmission Fluid?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
asia331
February 19, 2012, 10:52 PM
Been using ATF as a lube in my sidearms for years without issue. Recommend Grant Cunningham's Revolver Liberation Front website for a professional gunsmith's take.

ThorinNNY
February 19, 2012, 10:58 PM
AtF mixed with Acetone, Kerosene,and Paint Thinner is the formula for Ed`s big red bore cleaner.Stuff works well on dark bores.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
February 19, 2012, 11:01 PM
Some of the guys on here put me on a mix that is absolutely fantastic. Just started using it this weekend on my AR10. I was using Mobil1 and have been for a long time. This mix is half and half. Mobil1 10w 30 and Mobil1 ATF. I ran 250 rounds through it yesterday as well as 300 rounds through my Colt .45. Both performed flawlessly. No heat issues and both "rails" were still lubed afterwards. I don't clean with it nor will I, but I will continue to use that mix for a lube. Both receivers seemed cleaner after the sessions that they used to and just the oil usually performed that task well enough for me. But the mix actually performed better in my opinion. Ran cleaner, lubed well throughout a pretty hard session, seemed to run a slight bit cooler as well.

JTHunter
February 20, 2012, 12:08 AM
Because of the strong smell of the ATF and esp. on the ATF/solvent mixes, you might want to wipe the gun completely dry if it is a gun used for hunting. The critters can smell that junk.

AK_Maine_iac
February 20, 2012, 02:20 AM
Freedom Fighter

I too use the same mixture during the winter months on all of my AR's. Works great at 40 below.

owlhoot
February 20, 2012, 02:55 AM
I find this post a little humorous. Fifty years ago I was a serious bullseye competitor. That was before the advent of all the current gee whiz lubricants. Our standard lub was to mix a quart of ATF, a quart of 20 weight oil, and a small can of Marvel Mystery Oil together. I don't know if the Marvel Oil is still on the market but it was mighty slick stuff. Anyway, the mix was cheap and it was effective. And everybody used it, including all the top military teams. I guess fathers just aren't passing on information to their sons anymore.

earlthegoat2
February 20, 2012, 03:54 AM
I don't know if the Marvel Oil is still on the market but it was mighty slick stuff.

Yep, it is still on the market and it is still mighty slick stuff.

There is quite a bit of hoopla over gun lubricants but really nearly anything that is oily will work.

Certaindeaf
February 20, 2012, 03:57 AM
I use a mix.

Straight ATF is great for motorbike chains. The automatic oilers are designed to use it.

Salmoneye
February 20, 2012, 05:55 AM
I can not stand the smell of ATF...

Certaindeaf
February 20, 2012, 06:02 AM
#9 is quite aromatic.

Sav .250
February 20, 2012, 06:51 AM
Different strokes for different folks..........

Milamber
February 20, 2012, 07:04 AM
Was a time one of the ingredients of ATF was whale oil. A very durable lube before it was eclipsed by synthetics.

Sam1911
February 20, 2012, 07:09 AM
Pretty much my standard lube.

I use Hoppes or copper solvent and/or boiling water to clean (depending on what I'm cleaning) but I've got a lot of ATF around and it seems to work just fine to keep them rust-free and slicked up.

Guns aren't really very complex machines. They aren't terribly finicky about what kind of lube you're using. "Enough" is generally a lot more important than "how many PPM of teflon and lark's vomit, etc."

crossrhodes
February 20, 2012, 07:36 AM
I've used MB1 50 wt on my AR's for years and pretty happy on it's performance and clean up. I always wondered about ATF but was afraid what it would do if it got onto the finish of wood stocks.

PVD
February 20, 2012, 07:42 AM
Was a time one of the ingredients of ATF was whale oil.
When I started reloading a friend gave me an armload of old books he was no longer using. One of the books was the "Pocket Manual for Shooters and Reloaders" by Parker O. Ackley. Among numerous pearls of information are several recipes for common gun maintenance fluids, gun oil, grease, powder solvent, etc. A key ingredient for nearly every one is Sperm Oil. Wikipedia and confirms Milamber's post, the original Dexron formula relied on whale oil as a friction modifier.

jeffcooper
February 20, 2012, 08:03 AM
I find this post a little humorous. Fifty years ago I was a serious bullseye competitor. That was before the advent of all the current gee whiz lubricants. Our standard lub was to mix a quart of ATF, a quart of 20 weight oil, and a small can of Marvel Mystery Oil together. I don't know if the Marvel Oil is still on the market but it was mighty slick stuff. Anyway, the mix was cheap and it was effective. And everybody used it, including all the top military teams. I guess fathers just aren't passing on information to their sons anymore.

Its definite still out there. I have a gallon in the garage and have a pair ethanol damaged carbs soaking in it as we speak

Posted from my 'Droid via Tapatalk

mbopp
February 20, 2012, 09:08 AM
ATF has a lot of detergent in it to cut down on varnish buildup. My shop instructor said that's why the automatic transmission rebuild guys have the cleanest hands in the shop. It probably works as a powder solvent when used in guns.
As far as Marvel Mystery Oil, I use it as a substitute for kerosene in my Ed's Red mix.

doubleh
February 20, 2012, 10:27 AM
100% ATF is an excellent lube for guns. The brand I use has no appreciable odor.

Ishoot1st
February 20, 2012, 10:36 AM
What brand do you use that has no smell? And just apply with Q-tip after cleaning?

jrdolall
February 20, 2012, 10:43 AM
You mean to tell me that I don't have to use Hoppe's or some lubricant that cost $5 for 2 ounces? Next you will tell me that I don't have to go to the Jiffy Lube every 3,000 miles to get my oil changed.

We have been lubing guns with anything slick since I was a little boy. I promise my grandfather never bought anything called "gun oil" if they even had it then.

Owen Sparks
February 20, 2012, 10:43 AM
Gunzilla has a very mild smell. I have had good results with it.

doubleh
February 20, 2012, 06:26 PM
Ishoot1st, it was Mopar #4.

commygun
February 20, 2012, 06:41 PM
I use it as a solvent. I've used it generously cleaning after shooting BP and corrosive ammo and have never had a problem with rusting. Good stuff and a whole lot cheaper than Hoppes.

JustinJ
February 20, 2012, 06:45 PM
I've never looked. Is new ATF carcinogenic?

W.E.G.
February 20, 2012, 07:08 PM
I'm gonna vote for Ballistol.

ATF and sewing machine oil works good too.

Centaur 1
February 20, 2012, 08:31 PM
Been using ATF as a lube in my sidearms for years without issue. Recommend Grant Cunningham's Revolver Liberation Front website for a professional gunsmith's take.
Here's the link to Grant Cunningham's website. It's quite informative and I use atf because of it.

http://grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html

wrench
February 20, 2012, 08:41 PM
I use lots of ATF as a cleaner, a lubricant, and as a preservative in bores during storage.
I can clean a bore pretty well with Hoppe's, run a couple of swabs of ATF and get a lot more dark stuff out.
Pistols run well, even in the cold, and no rust.

bikerdoc
February 20, 2012, 08:45 PM
I use it. Put it in an empty Ronson lighter fluid containers and have several around the bench truck and range bag. Good or truck door hinge squeaks also.

777TRUTH
February 20, 2012, 08:52 PM
+1 on Ed's Red, Synthetic 10w30 for lube.

ColtPythonElite
February 20, 2012, 08:55 PM
Ed's Red works for me.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=146483&d=1312063013

Macchina
February 20, 2012, 09:01 PM
I just did a Tranny Fluid change on my Jeep (Chrysler demands expensive ATF+4). I used Valvoline synthetic ATF+4 fluid and poured a bit of extra into a small bottle to use for lube. I got some on my some on my hands during the change and couldn't stand the smell! What brands don't smell? Is synthetic ATF any better than conventional ATF?

I do know Sythetic ATF+4 is pretty much the most durable (shear-stability) lubricant in existence...

The Lone Haranguer
February 20, 2012, 09:09 PM
I haven't used it on guns, but in my automotive experience, ATF has a detergent quality that effectively dissolves old oil and grease. It does take some time and you would need to leave it soaking or scrub with a brush.

CONNEX 3300
February 20, 2012, 09:30 PM
Heck I'd never let the ATF clean my guns. :neener:
On a more serious note, I know several old timers that used to use it. But they all switched to gun solvents when they became available.

rickb2202
February 20, 2012, 09:37 PM
recently went shooting with a friend of mine who was using kangaroo lube or some other exotic named over priced crap in his new ar 15. about 500 rounds of rapid fire in his rifle locks up. mine still running like the proverbial bat out of hell on dextron atf. we take his 15 apart with the help of a 3 lb shop hammer and a block of 2x4 and find his overpriced wallaby wonderfluid, or whatever it was has given up the ghost in his bolt and carrier. we remove the dipstick from my toyota tranny and apply liberally. runs like a ar should. if you have ever taken an automatic transmission apart, or have any concept of how they work, you will understand how a semi automatic firearm can run on this product....

SlowFuse
February 20, 2012, 10:10 PM
I use Eds Red on all bores.

Murphy4570
February 20, 2012, 10:45 PM
I just did a Tranny Fluid change on my Jeep (Chrysler demands expensive ATF+4). I used Valvoline synthetic ATF+4 fluid and poured a bit of extra into a small bottle to use for lube. I got some on my some on my hands during the change and couldn't stand the smell! What brands don't smell? Is synthetic ATF any better than conventional ATF?


Haha if you think ATF smells, try gear oil!!! Or friction modifier!

Speaking of ATF, use a quart of that on your next oil change, and it'll clean the holy hell out of your engine. Old timer's trick for sludged up engines. Run it for about 50-100 miles, then change the oil again.

Hocka Louis
February 20, 2012, 10:56 PM
Supposedly ATF is the closest compound to whale oil, believe it or not. With rust inhibitors it was supposed to be the next best thing since self-contained cartridges to profoundly cheap reenactors.

I could HEAR the friggin' rusting on my precious blackpowder arms on a damp day. Literally, I could see the condensation drops on the cool white metal turning brown.

It is POOP. AND it stinks to high heaven!

JustinJ
February 21, 2012, 12:13 AM
If ATF is so great in firearms why has nobody bottled it and relabeled it gun oil? Its not like the vast majority of people have any idea what is in the products they use anyways. My concern in using a product like this in such a manner is toxicity and carcinogens from combustion. At least look at the MSDS for which ever brand you use.

Salmoneye
February 21, 2012, 06:17 AM
Speaking of ATF, use a quart of that on your next oil change, and it'll clean the holy hell out of your engine. Old timer's trick for sludged up engines. Run it for about 50-100 miles, then change the oil again.

Or they used a quart of Kero in there...

And then you find every weak seal and gasket after the sludge come out...

ultradoc
February 21, 2012, 07:17 AM
Never heard of using atf before. Had a buddy ask me to clean up his ak. It was the dirtiest ak I have held. I didn't have anything to soak the parts in except harley oil. I told him when he gets his ak back to expect it to be louder. haha

doubleh
February 21, 2012, 08:46 AM
"If ATF is so great"? How do you know they haven't? :) The ingredients aren't exactly listed on those little bottles.

minuteman1970
February 21, 2012, 08:51 AM
Out of curiosity, how well would ATF work as a cleaner for rust or cosmoline on a milsurp gun?

gnb
February 21, 2012, 09:30 AM
JustinJ- http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=7004001
google says ATF isnt carcinogenic.

rajb123
February 21, 2012, 10:39 AM
I worked in a transmission rebuild shop for a few years in the 1970s.... all the people in the shop used ATF in their engine crankcases - nothing else.... works great...

swapping fluid often in transmissions is the best form of preventative maintenance....it is my belief that OEMs suggested intervals for ATF in transmissions are way too long....which leads to early trerminal failures...

Ishoot1st
February 21, 2012, 11:09 AM
Thanks for all the info guys. I'll try some ATF on my marlin 60, hopefully it will run a little smoother.

morcey2
February 21, 2012, 11:57 AM
I can not stand the smell of ATF...
I worked as a mechanic for a while and I got used to the smell of ATF among other things. What really drives me nuts is the smell of hot asphalt. It smells very similar to a transmission burning ATF along with clutch/band material. Every time we pass a paving operation, I get an irrepressible urge to check my transmission dipstick.

As for ATF on guns, I use a 50/50 mix of ATF and kerosene as penetrating oil. It has worked great on a stuck choke tube among other things.

Matt

Fleet
February 21, 2012, 06:40 PM
Is new ATF carcinogenic?
Depends on who made it. Only one oil company I know for a fact that produces oils without any carcinogens, and that's Hydrotex.

Fleet
February 21, 2012, 06:43 PM
For all you guys putting Marvel Mystery Oil on your guns, you're risking damage. MMO contains chlorine. Combine that with water and heat and you get hydrochloric acid.

River Dog
February 21, 2012, 11:12 PM
Like several others have google Ed's Red. Make it to the recipe for a cleaner and protectant. Follow his recipe for oil. Unbelieveably inexpensive. You won't go back to anything else. The carbon in and on AR15s dissolves immediately.

The only other solution you'll need is a solvent for bad jacket fouling like Sweet's 7.62. Talk about something that stinks!

Old Dog Man
February 22, 2012, 12:26 AM
Try using ATF and fine 4-0000 steel wool to remove surface rust. It works great and willl not remove the blue. Never tried it for lubricant. May give it a try.

jaguarxk120
February 22, 2012, 11:03 AM
If you don't care for the red color just get a bottle of power steering fluid, it's ATF with out the red color.

Ed's Red works and you make it your self

jblackfish
February 22, 2012, 03:55 PM
For real? Transmission fluid - who'd a thunk it!

UPDATE: OK. I got some. ATF may be the best lubricant around but that stuff stinks! BAD!!!! and it lingers on everything including the trash. Who wants their custom guns to smell like that? I'm thinking maybe the Mobil 1 route would be better, huh?

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
February 22, 2012, 05:18 PM
The Mobil1 ATF synthetic has little to no smell at all. When mixed with 10w30 it has everything one could want in a lubricant. Now granted, there is heat in a transmission, there is nowhere near the heat of an engine block! Use the Oil mix as well for the viscosity. You will then have the cleaning properties inherent to ATF and the viscosity of the oil for load bearing under heat.

jbstratman
February 22, 2012, 05:36 PM
Did you ever wonder why they tell you to 'flush with water for 15 minutes' or longer whenever you get certain things splashed into your eyes (like bleach)?

That's because your eyes and the membranes around them are porous and since chemicals travel from the area of highest concentration to the lowest, it takes a lot of time for the water, in this case, to 'draw' the chemical(s) out.

This happened to my wife recently and I asked the eye doctor why you need to flush it out for so long.

Your skin is porous too. It's the largest organ of your body (no jokes here, please!)

Just something to think about.

I read on the Gunzilla website that it is "formulated to remove the hazardous chemical exposure associated with many gun cleaners".

Elkins45
February 22, 2012, 10:11 PM
For about 20 years now I've been using a mix of 2 parts ATF, 2 parts Mobil 1 synthetic oil and 1 part STP. This was recommended to me by a National Guard armorer that shoots where I do. I mixed up a quart just for the fun of it and have been amazed at just how good it is for all the things I use oil for (guns, knives, tools, hinges, garage, etc.). The red ATF dye means it's not something I want to get on my white shirts, but I think it's every bit the equal of Break Free or other commercial lubes.

FROGO207
February 22, 2012, 10:18 PM
^^^ The STP has Teflon in it. That is something that you do not want to get vaporized and breath in.:eek: I use Mobile 1 and PB Blaster mixed 3 parts Mobile 1 to 1 of PB Blaster for my lube and it does smell some but it works great. :D

theQman23
March 1, 2012, 12:06 AM
"Straight ATF is great for motorbike chains. The automatic oilers are designed to use it."
Someone mentioned this earlier.............. this is only the case in all metal chains. Modern bikes use O-ring or X- ring chains that have rubber sealing the outer link plates from the inner rollers. If you put engine oil or ATF on these chains they will eat the rubber seals.
As this relates to guns........... some guns have plastic parts. How does the atf and/or engine oil do with polymer frames, sight bases, clips, etc.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
March 1, 2012, 01:00 AM
Wouldn't know Qman, All my firearms are all metal. Except for the grips and stocks of course. Never gotten into the polymer craze. And news flash, if engine oil ate rubber gaskets, you would have one leaky ass engine on your car there buddy. Same with ATF. Lots of gaskets are rubber/silicone gaskets on your transmission. Some of your higher end ones are cork/metal, but most of your stock gaskets are of a rubber based product. Don't know where you got that info but it is mistaken.

Lucifer_Sam
March 1, 2012, 01:53 AM
I made up some eds red not to long ago. First time test mix I just used a synthetic ATF that I already had. It didnt smell bad, but it also didnt mix with the other ingredients. I went and picked up some dextron/mecron atf from Kellys auto parts, and that stuff stinks bad, but it works. So if your just going to use the atf on its own the synthetics are fine, but you've got to get the stinky stuff if you're going to use any of the mixes.

Some some of the synthetics probably mix fine, but I cant tell you want they are.

Elkins45
March 1, 2012, 06:34 PM
^^^ The STP has Teflon in it.

Not according to the MSDS.

x_wrench
March 2, 2012, 07:35 AM
The critters can smell that junk.

the critters smell EVERYTHING! there is nothing that you can use on a firearm that the critters are not going to be able to smell. with noses that are somewhere between 4,000 and 50,000 times more sensitive than ours. just think about you dog next time you cook up a nice juicy steak, or on the other end, cauliflower! sometimes, it is a blessing not to be able to smell very well. for us, their noses are a curse, for them, it is how they stay alive.

as far as atf goes, it is a wonderful lubricant, and a heck of a cleaner. when i am shooting lead loads, my version of ed's red is only 3 things. mineral spirits, kerosene, and atf. it works great for removing powder residue, and is very inexpensive to make. as a lubricant, it flows very well at any sub zero weather that 99.5% of us will ever hunt in, and the other .5% i honestly do not know. i do know that @ -25f, you can start up a car, drop it in gear, and the transmission works. in both standard and automatics (many modern standard transmissions use atf). in my years of shooting, i have used many, many oils. regular and synthetic gun oils, marvels mystery oil, stp, mobil 1, castrol gtx, and on and on. unless it gets really cold out, almost anything works. guns are made from relatively hard steel, and they never move any whers nearly as fast as a piston @ 6000 rpm. all of them worked fine. if i was going on a dangerous game hunt, or Alaska, i would not take a chance on ANYTHING going wrong, and i would use a synthetic gun oil. it is not worth taking the chance that your gun will not fire when a brown bear is charging you and it has been freezing rain half the day. or when a lion suddenly appears in the tall grass at 15 yards. you do not try to save $5.00 when it has taken $20.000 to get there, and your life is on the line.

ralph76
March 2, 2012, 05:30 PM
Atf is a odd thing. Remembering from my rebuilding classes 30+ years ago, It does lube everything in there, but also provides a environment for good friction of the friction material and metal discs. I use it for my honing stones and that is all.It does have additives that control foaming,heat dissipation, and more.The metal may not get affected , but wood finish may be different or syn. stocks. One thing I forgot to mention is that it has properties to swell the seals so they don't leak but also don't break down the rubber. So be careful on rubber parts. Those rubber parts are made compatible for atf fluid.

FROGO207
March 3, 2012, 06:13 AM
OOPS, yeah I was wrong about that.:banghead: I was thinking of Slick 50 not STP.:o Should not trust my memory till I verify.

Elkins45
March 3, 2012, 11:27 AM
OOPS, yeah I was wrong about that.:banghead: I was thinking of Slick 50 not STP.:o Should not trust my memory till I verify.
Slick 50? Isn't that the stuff they invented to clog up oil filters and oil channels? :D

Do they still make that stuff anymore?

Blanco
March 3, 2012, 04:31 PM
I used some Valvoline DEX/MERC universal ATF and it really didn't have an odor. My mix seems to work great as a bore scrub.

Red Cent
March 3, 2012, 07:23 PM
http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=9

armarsh
March 4, 2012, 01:38 PM
For all you guys putting Marvel Mystery Oil on your guns, you're risking damage. MMO contains chlorine. Combine that with water and heat and you get hydrochloric acid.

I'm calling BS on this one.

First of all, you do not know what is in Marvel Mystery Oil. They do not publish it's contents.

Secondly, just because something contains chlorine does not mean that you can get HCL out of it. For example, adding salt (NaCl) to water and heating it only gets it ready to cook spaghetti in.

jimmyraythomason
March 4, 2012, 02:54 PM
MMO contains chlorine. Combine that with water and heat and you get hydrochloric acid.http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/pdfs/MSDS/Marvel_Mystery/Marvel-MSDS.pdf

jaguarxk120
March 4, 2012, 03:41 PM
From the MSDS sheet: Decomposition Products-- carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, hydrocarbons.

No acids.

This is for Fleet who likes to combine different materials and get acid that will disolve you guns into a pile of nothings.

There is/was/claimed to be a "philosophers stone" that will transmute base metals into gold.

grendelbane
March 4, 2012, 04:04 PM
If straight ATF is too expensive a lube for your guns, try cutting it with canola oil.

I some times use a two to one mix of canola oil and Dexron III ATF. It seems to lube just as well, and it doesn't smell near as bad. (It still smells, though).

I have tested it down to 10 below. If it gets any colder than that, I am not going shooting.

flatlander937
March 4, 2012, 04:06 PM
I've wondered how mixing ATF + 90wt gear oil would work out.

I regear axles all the time for 4x4s... the sheer forces that the ring and pinion have to withstand are astronomical, and especially when you have up to 400hp going through the axles, multiplied by ~4x from the transmission in first gear, then another 3-5x for having the transfer case in low range and bouncing off of rocks.

The only problem with gear oil is that it is incredibly sticky. Good for staying put... yes. But probably very good at attracting dirt.


I used it once on my 1911 to lube the slide rails. Shot 150 rounds through it with no failures, and still had some lube left when done... but gritty stuff built up as well, though not much/any more than usual. I didn't have any gun oil on hand.

FWIW it DOES work freaking fantastic for wiping down the surfaces of my 1911... it soaks into the metal really well, then you can wipe/buff it off without having any streaks left over. It works 10x better for this than Hoppes oil in my experience. When you wipe it off, it doesn't leave a residue, but you can tell it still has some oil on the surface protecting it.


If you ever need to break a bolt loose, or get something un-seized... mix 50/50 ATF and acetone... it works way better than PB Blaster or any other store brand rust penetrant I've ever used. Only downside is you need to shake it right before use as they will separate. And it will eat through plastic spray bottles.;)

jblackfish
March 4, 2012, 04:23 PM
......................The only problem with gear oil is that it is incredibly sticky. Good for staying put... yes. But probably very good at attracting dirt................
This is the problem I worry about - all these heavier lubes attracting dirt, grime and powder residue as you shoot. I'm talking here mainly about semi-auto pistols that get shot thousands of rounds a year and hundreds (or thousands) in a day, repeatedly. Some ammo can be really dirty if you combine grit from all the rounds in a match. That's why I think a thorough cleaning and a small application of CLP (or your favorite (not thick oil) on the gun may be the best.

I have cleaned a fairly good amount of crap out of some of my pistols after only 100 rounds or so in a club match. (I shoot Vihtavuori because it shoots cleaner than most powders and plated RN for the same reason - still my guns get dirty without using a thicker lube mixture.)

I'm wondering why all the hoopla and I'm caught up in it myself. I'm thinking that the motor oil belongs in your car, the ATF in your transmission and STP should just stay on the shelf. You CAN use the motor oil to lube your Dillon if you have one - I believe that's what Dillon recommends.

Elkins45
March 5, 2012, 09:17 PM
I'm wondering why all the hoopla and I'm caught up in it myself. I just bought a quart of Mobil 1 Oil, Mobil 1 ATF and a bottle of STP for mixing it up to try it. Now I'm thinking I might be better off putting the stuff in my garage and using it there. (I'm just thinking all this over.)

I have about 20 years of experience that says it doesn't attract dirt/grit any worse than other stuff does. I think it's great stuff, and I have plenty of other lubes to compare it to.

jblackfish
March 5, 2012, 10:03 PM
Thx Elkins, but I believe the thicker it is, the more "dirt" is attracts and holds. I'm not gonna try it for the same reason that all the other folks DO use it: because the methods and lubes I've used for 30 years has worked great for me. Yes, I've changed some over the years as new stuff comes out but why change what works?

Fleet
March 6, 2012, 08:56 AM
I'm calling BS on this one.

First of all, you do not know what is in Marvel Mystery Oil. They do not publish it's contents.
I'll be more than happy to email you a copy of the oil analysis report done by Polaris Laboratories that I paid $60 for showing the chlorine content. PM me an address.

Secondly, just because something contains chlorine does not mean that you can get HCL out of it. For example, adding salt (NaCl) to water and heating it only gets it ready to cook spaghetti in.
I'll point out that sodium chloride isn't chlorine. Talk to a tribologist for the chemistry involved - I have, as I work in the finished product segment of the oil industry. A google search on the subject gives lots of reading fodder.

Fleet
March 6, 2012, 09:10 AM
From the MSDS sheet: Decomposition Products-- carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, hydrocarbons.

No acids.

This is for Fleet who likes to combine different materials and get acid that will disolve you guns into a pile of nothings.

There is/was/claimed to be a "philosophers stone" that will transmute base metals into gold.
Yup, when you BURN it, as in using it as a gasoline additive, that's what you get. I'm not talking about burning it, am I?

You assume that an MSDS tells you everything there is to know about a product regarding what reactions happen in the presence of other chemicals. Demonstrably not the case.

jblackfish
March 6, 2012, 09:24 AM
Fleet, as someone who works in the oil industry I'd be interested in your opinion of the mixture of Mobil 1 oil, (2 parts) Mobil 1 ATF, (2 parts) and STP (1 part) to come up with a gun lubricant. Would you care to comment on that?

Fleet
March 6, 2012, 12:53 PM
The lube requirements in a gun are pretty light, with one exception. That being on a rifle's cocking piece or a DA sear. ATF by itself is actually a very good choice, as it has some of the extreme pressure additives found in gear oil, without the extreme viscosity. I wouldn't mix oils like ATF and engine oil, as you don't know how the different additives in each will react to each other. The may be compatible, and they may not be. Without knowing each specific additive there's no way to tell. STP is primarily a viscosity increaser. As such, I wouldn't use it. As an engine oil additive, it's snake oil like all the rest of that breed. Or, put differently, it does a good job of moving your money to the Granatelli Bros., but isn't useful for much else.

jblackfish
March 6, 2012, 01:56 PM
Thanks for the opinion, Fleet. I understand what STP is but, in a loose engine, I would think it would make allowances for a little more slop in the clearances. I don't have that situation but, if I did, I'd use it for that purpose until I could get the required work done.

I agree that STP probably doesn't have much place in a gun unless the gun is loose and the temps are high. I'm mainly talking about using any of this stuff in a 1911 and most of mine are very tight; therefore, I usually use the lighter oils. If I do use the thick stuff in anything you can bet I'll clean it often!

jimmyraythomason
March 6, 2012, 02:16 PM
STP mixed 50/50 with 30w engine oil makes a very good lubricant for anything that will "sit" for some time. It is what I used exclusively to lube valve stems in cylinder head that I had assembled/rebuilt that may stay in the warehouse for an unknown amout of time. This mixture ensured that there would be lubrication remaining when the heads were sold and used. I have also used it on firearms with no complaints.

xXxplosive
March 6, 2012, 05:06 PM
Mobil 1 5/20 is what I use.

Chris-bob
March 9, 2012, 02:32 AM
If you don't care for the red color just get a bottle of power steering fluid, it's ATF with out the red color.

ATF and PS fluid is NOT the same thing.

Drail
March 9, 2012, 01:47 PM
I have been using Dexron for years on guns and lots of other machines in my shop and it works very well. Lube a 1911 with it and then burn 500 rounds or so through and when you tear it down there's still Dexron on the barrel and rails. It also seems to dissolve carbon really well. And it's affordable. Try some.

edwin41
March 9, 2012, 05:08 PM
hello
after reading this post i made up some gunoil , kind of a mix from what
previous posters mentioned.
i used valvoline atf dextron 3 and valvoline 10w30 motoroil in a 60/40 mix.
this is what i had floating in the garage.
i put it in a small container and added some kerosine and a bit acetone.
cleaned my gun this evening with this mix , and i must say its really great !
its an exellent solvent for fouling , seems to lube up the moving parts good.
dont know about the "conserving"of the weapon just yet... time will tell.
ive been using ballistol exclusive , but i really like this mix too.
thank you for posting this thread !

greetings from holland !

Fleet
March 9, 2012, 05:49 PM
ATF and PS fluid is NOT the same thing.
Very true. PS fluid doesn't have the extreme pressure additives that ATF has, among other things.

jblackfish
March 9, 2012, 05:50 PM
................i used valvoline atf dextron 3 and valvoline 10w30 motoroil in a 60/40 mix.
...............i put it in a small container and added some kerosine and a bit acetone.
....................
Be careful with acetone - that stuff melts some plastics!

edwin41
March 9, 2012, 06:03 PM
the acetone will eat its way through some plastics i guess.
my guns have no plastics in them though , and my thinking would be that the acetone vaporises out of the mix kind of fast , so no harm to the gun would be done. i added some to enhance the cleaning ability of the mix.
dont know what it will do to blueing yet... lets find out !

John3921
March 9, 2012, 10:55 PM
That mix is roughly Ed's Red. Ed's Red is 1 part ATF, 1 part odorless mineral spirits (or coleman fuel), 1 Part Kerosene, 1 Part Acetone. Acetone being optional for a somewhat less aggressive cleaner. Acetone will ruin a finish on wood. I use Ed's Red as a cleaner - but only after I've taken off the stock to make sure that I don't mess up the finish on a stock.

If you enjoyed reading about "Automatic Transmission Fluid?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!