S&w m&p to have new trigger!


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grayhambone
February 20, 2012, 06:39 AM
Smith and Wesson will be coming out with a new trigger for the M&P line. The new trigger will be similar to glocks trigger. Not necessarily with the scissor thing but the shape. It may be like fnh's new fns. This is a much needed update. The new trigger is also said to have a much more crisp/potent trigger reset (like that of a glock or the new fns). I for one am looking forward to this and it may very well take a larger chunk out of glocks LE market.

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sawdeanz
February 20, 2012, 07:56 AM
Any idea when and whether you can replace an existing m&p trigger with it. I was thinkiing about getting one soon and it sounds like the new trigger would address a concern I had about the model

psyshack
February 20, 2012, 08:28 AM
Whats wrong with the current trigger? I like the trigger in my M&P .45! It does not have to have the same reset as my G20 which I don't like at all.

ExMachina
February 20, 2012, 08:36 AM
where did you hear this? not seeing anything about this on the smith and wesson forums.

mgmorden
February 20, 2012, 10:51 AM
Where are you getting this information? An official source would be great. Apex already has the FSS kit out which is a replacement trigger that supposedly is the best thing since sliced bread, but since it'd not a factory option its not Production (USPSA) nor SSP (IDPA) legal in competition. Any improvements available straight from the factory would be great.

grayhambone
February 20, 2012, 01:11 PM
Of course it's not on there website. If you were still trying to sell back product, would you advertise a new trigger in the same pistol? No! Apple's iPhone doesnt say they will be coming out with a new phone in 3 months. Apple doesen't say a word until it's about to be on the market. The current trigger is hinged and isn't very practical for the world they are trying to be in. An elongated trigger that should be shorter and more smooth. Most importantly it should have a reset more prominent.

Mike1234567
February 20, 2012, 01:26 PM
So where's the info coming from?

grayhambone
February 20, 2012, 01:27 PM
Ok, just confirmed with an individual with S&W. If you currently have a ambi safety frame (not the actual safety) but with the plug. This new part (Coming in summer 2012) will drop in. If you do not have this "style frame" it will be a whole new pistol. This may or may not be available to non LEO's initially. This trigger will be shorter smoother and more tactile. Also a more crisp reset. Beleive it or not idc.

Call any of the Local and State LE sales agents.

JDGray
February 20, 2012, 01:30 PM
NM...

Mike1234567
February 20, 2012, 01:32 PM
grayhambone... If that's true and if the price is right then it may be good news for me because I opted for the .45 ACP with the ambi-safety.

SIDE NOTE: I hope your buddy isn't sacked for leaking S&W trade secrets.

grayhambone
February 20, 2012, 01:50 PM
what is NM?
nevermind?
and no it's available. you just have to ask the right person. also, the ambi safety would have to be off from my understanding.

Mike1234567
February 20, 2012, 01:56 PM
^^^ I'd have to permanently remove the ambi-safety leaving ugly side holes and deactivating one of the reasons I chose this very gun?

grayhambone
February 20, 2012, 01:59 PM
no it doesn't leave holes. on S&W M&P what's in that place without the safety is called a plug. it doesn't look different or anything else. the first model frames had this plug rather than the safety. hard to explain.

Mike1234567
February 20, 2012, 02:07 PM
Okay... but I'd rather not lose the thumb safety.

mgmorden
February 20, 2012, 02:11 PM
This starting to sound awfully like you're hearing from someone about the Apex Tactical RAM (Reset Assist Mechanism). Goes in the same slot, improves reset and "tactile feel". If not its something awfully similar.

Either way - "I heard it from a guy who works there" isn't exactly confidence inspiring. I'll hold my breath for an official announcement.

grayhambone
February 20, 2012, 02:11 PM
the guy didn't really state whether or not that would be kept. imo what he said was it wouldn't. idk honestly, I just want to shoot one with the new trigger....If I was in the market, I'd like to have the new firearm rather than the old frame with a new trigger. Well it makes sense that if an aftermarket company made a good improvement, then the factory would follow up with the same part. In reality idk if you read what I stated, if you purchase a new firearm when the trigger comes out it will have the new trigger. Don't beleive me.

Mark Dix
(413) 433-0619
Email: mdix@smith-wesson.com
Fax: (719) 213-2261

grayhambone
February 20, 2012, 02:15 PM
actually
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_757921_-1_757917_757787_image
call any of them

David E
February 20, 2012, 02:24 PM
They're changing the trigger?!

Ruh roh....

Mike1234567
February 20, 2012, 02:27 PM
Called and left a message...

12131
February 20, 2012, 02:32 PM
Either way - "I heard it from a guy who works there" isn't exactly confidence inspiring. I'll hold my breath for an official announcement.
I agree with this.
Not doubting the OP talking to the guys at S&W, but, in business, if it's not official, it's not. How many times in this gun business have we seen vaporware? Just sayin'.

JDGray
February 20, 2012, 02:38 PM
what is NM?
nevermind?


National Match:D

You answered the question, as I was typing.

grayhambone
February 20, 2012, 02:41 PM
there is a bunch of numbers ont he website mike, try another.
again, back to the iphone.....you don't know the exact specs of the new phone until about a week before right?
if you doubt the statement. call for yourself.
I didn't hear it from a guy....I called asking for the simple reason, if a whole department was about to buy M&P's and there is going to be a new trigger/gun then the buyer and manufacture would know?
maybe the doubters are right.

jbstratman
February 20, 2012, 05:57 PM
Probably doing it because of all the APEX parts being installed. I had the APEX kit installed and it is fantastic . . . just sayin' . . .

David S
February 20, 2012, 08:17 PM
I beleive this may be what S&W referrs to as the "tactical reset trigger"

They actually did a run of about 500 for a LEO agency, but they are all sold out.
From what I understand this is a totally different sear block and trigger bar but the actual physical articulated trigger itself is not changing...

however, we are prehaps talking about two different things

Mike1234567
February 20, 2012, 08:36 PM
I left a VM for Mark Dix of S&W who promptly replied with his email address. I emailed asking him to shed some light on the matter. I won't receive anything until tomorrow and I won't be home to see the email until tomorrow night. If others haven't already posted info then I will... if I have it.

LightningMan
February 20, 2012, 11:19 PM
Gosh! I hope they don't change the trigger, as I am extremely happy with my M&P .40c and I can shoot it very well. LM

recon
February 20, 2012, 11:35 PM
This could be interesting. I wonder if Apex has heard anything about this?

ExMachina
February 21, 2012, 08:41 AM
http://www.motivationalz.com/pictures/skeptical_hippo.jpg

JoeMal
February 21, 2012, 09:02 AM
The new trigger will be similar to glocks trigger. Not necessarily with the scissor thing but the shape. It may be like fnh's new fns. This is a much needed update. The new trigger is also said to have a much more crisp/potent trigger reset (like that of a glockWhy don't you skip all the fussing around and just get a Glock then?! :evil:

Glad to hear they are changing something though if people were having problems or disagreeing with it

grayhambone
February 21, 2012, 10:53 AM
yes, joemal. That's why I own 0 M&P's.
Now if my department were to issue these handguns, then I would be obligated to carry it. Also if obligated to carry it, I hope it will have the new trigger. :banghead:

Mike1234567
February 21, 2012, 01:27 PM
Hey guys... it's true.

Following is a cut/paste from an email reply from Mark Dix of S&W.

"Hey Mike,

We are in fact coming out with a cleaner, crisper trigger for the M&P pistols. The initial offering will be for the smaller calibers first- 9mm, .40, and .357Sig. The time line for a full scale production is slated for April/ May. This new trigger should be the standard for the M&Ps come summer. The reset is shorter, crisper, and smoother with none of the “false reset’ that some of the pistols have now.

The only fly in the ointment for you is we haven’t been told when the trigger will be available for the .45, as that will require additional testing as the .45 doesn’t share parts with the other calibers. We haven’t been provided pricing yet for retro-fitting current guns. This system will only be offered for pistols that have or can be setup with the thumb safety. If your .45 has a thumb safety, it will easily convert to the new trigger when it becomes available for the .45.

I hope this helps. I realize it doesn’t answer the two most important questions- when available and how much- but know it’s coming.

M"

9mmepiphany
February 21, 2012, 05:21 PM
You'll notice that even though he uses the phrase "cleaner, crisper trigger", reading the sentence in context makes it sound more like he is referring to the trigger action than the actual trigger itself when he follows it up with "The reset is shorter, crisper, and smoother with none of the “false reset’ that some of the pistols have now.". Plus he doesn't make any reference to the trigger being solid.

The change described sounds a lot like the function of the Performance Center Pro striker block or Apex Tactical Ultimate Striker Block.

I know S&W wanted to include the Apex Tactical parts in their production pistols, it wil be interesting to see what this upgrade entails

grayhambone
February 21, 2012, 07:49 PM
Well you heard it hear first. Now grayhambone will not be discredited anymore. Not only that maybe you should believe me next time huh???
Anyway, thanks for following up with him. Please send him an email thanking him.

David S
February 21, 2012, 07:58 PM
Not to discredit ANYONE in this thread, but i call POOOEY on this whole thing.

I have heard talks of this "tactical reset trigger" (which does NOT replace the actual articulated trigger) for over a year now. Like i mentioned earlier, i heard that 500 or so were actually made, but they are sorta vaporware IMO

In other words, ill beleive it when I see it.

S&W customer service is good, but everyone you talk to has a different story

grayhambone
February 21, 2012, 08:06 PM
We could have a gentlemans bet here.
The email wasn't from customer service....direct LEO sells? He's going to lie and possibly loose his reputabiluty with any law enforcement sells? Excuse my French....but don't be a @$$

danez71
February 21, 2012, 08:36 PM
Not to discredit ANYONE in this thread, but i call POOOEY on this whole thing.


I think thats whats called 'discredit EVERYONE'.

Jackal1
February 22, 2012, 05:34 AM
Maybe the new trigger will be for everyone and not just LE sales... check out S&W's SEC filings. Go to the link below and download their SEC filing from 02/08/12, type 8-k. Looks like we'll be seeing lots more money pumped into the M&P pistol line followed (eventually) with hunting caliber modern sporting rifles.

http://ir.smith-wesson.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=90977&p=irol-sec

87Theworld
February 22, 2012, 06:58 AM
Is the trigger going to be better than the pro series or the exact same thing with a new look? The pro series trigger is great to me already

mgmorden
February 22, 2012, 07:59 AM
Is the trigger going to be better than the pro series or the exact same thing with a new look? The pro series trigger is great to me already

The Pro-series uses the same trigger as the regular M&P, but a different sear.

Likewise, from the sounds of this it sounds like it'll still be the same physical trigger the gun has always had, but possibly with a different striker-block and/or the addition of something similar to Apex's RAM.

Quack
February 22, 2012, 08:43 PM
I'm thinking it'll be the Apex FSS.

http://img.tapatalk.com/ad58fc60-99b4-6cf7.jpg

grayhambone
February 22, 2012, 09:11 PM
my guess is complete new trigger.
if it was just a diff sear thats what thed call it

soapboxpreacher
February 25, 2012, 09:28 PM
It should be a modified version of the PPQ trigger. I have shot the PPQ and it has a stellar trigger. To put it bluntly it is a better gun! I have an Apex on my M&P 9 with over 1k rounds and a new (not broken in) PPQ trigger is better IMHO. Remember Smith owns Walther and the PPQ is a hidden gem of a gun for them that might not be as popular as the M&P in the states so if they add the trigger to the M&P they would really up what the M&P is. As for the PPQ, for 500 bucks it has a better slide release, a better mag release (IMO), better trigger and is a more accuracy gun than an M&P. This has to do with the rifling and how the barrel and slide fit together tighter in the PPQ. But back to the trigger, all smith needs to do is grab that trigger and put it in the M&P...they already own it therefore they would never need APEX not to mention that PPQ is a better trigger than an even with an M&P setup that had an APEX. The APEX on changes the pull, smoothness, and travel. It doesnt change the physical style of the trigger itself on the M&P, which once again in my opinionated mind as an owner of an M&P and a shooter of countless other guns the M&P trigger design is fair!

GunNut
February 26, 2012, 12:00 AM
S&W DOES NOT own Walther, they are just the importer of Walther in the USA.

soapboxpreacher
February 26, 2012, 02:10 AM
Sorry thought they were all under the same holding company.

JDGray
February 26, 2012, 08:30 AM
S&W and Walther do share parts though....A S&W pistol I looked at had Walther all over the frame:)

balance 740
February 26, 2012, 10:54 AM
S&W and Walther do share parts though....A S&W pistol I looked at had Walther all over the frame

SW99?

Walther made the frames and internals for the SW99. S&W made the slides and barrels. Walther doesn't use S&W parts on their pistols and other than the SW99, S&W doesn't use Walther parts on their pistols.

They do seem to have a good relationship with each other though, and they may share design ideas, I don't know.

As to this new M&P trigger, this is excellent news, as I think (as well as everyone who ever bought an Apex part) that the stock M&P trigger could use improvement. The sales of the PPQ may have opened their eyes on what people are looking for when purchasing pistols.

GunNut
February 26, 2012, 12:40 PM
S&W and Walther do share parts though....A S&W pistol I looked at had Walther all over the frame:)
M&P 22 is made by Umarex a division of Walther.

JDGray
February 26, 2012, 01:08 PM
Wasn't the M&P22, thinking it was a Sigma... Shot a Friends M&P9 yesterday, plenty accurate, but terrible reset feel.

GunNut
February 26, 2012, 01:22 PM
Wasn't the M&P22, thinking it was a Sigma... Shot a Friends M&P9 yesterday, plenty accurate, but terrible reset feel.
Had to have been the SW99. The only guns that S&W has bought Walther frames for were the SW99.

S&W produces the Walther PPK/S for Walther in the USA.

Walther(Umarex) produces the M&P22 for S&W.

bds
February 26, 2012, 02:45 PM
... notice ... the phrase "cleaner, crisper trigger", reading the sentence in context makes it sound more like he is referring to the trigger action than the actual trigger itself when he follows it up with "The reset is shorter, crisper, and smoother with none of the “false reset’ that some of the pistols have now.". Plus he doesn't make any reference to the trigger being solid.

The change described sounds a lot like the function of the Performance Center Pro striker block or Apex Tactical Ultimate Striker Block.

I know S&W wanted to include the Apex Tactical parts in their production pistols, it wil be interesting to see what this upgrade entails
There are quite a few M&P match pistols on the competition circuit with trigger jobs done by Burwell (http://www.burwellguns.com/index.htm) and with APEX Tactical (https://apextactical.com/store/index.php) triggers. S&W certainly had enough time to study/research the "best" triggers for M&Ps and I am also curious as to what S&W will put in the new M&Ps and what they will charge to retrofit M&Ps with old triggers.

I have been very happy with the trigger job (http://www.burwellguns.com/M&Ptriggerjob1.htm) I have done on my M&P 40/45, but will consider trigger replacement from S&W depending on reviews/comments.

stinx
February 26, 2012, 04:10 PM
My Dept currently carries M&P's. I contacted my L/E rep about ordering some more pistols as we are supposed to be hiring in the summer. My rep told me not to order and to hold out as a revised M&P with improved trigger is going to be released in the near future. My rep stated they would give us a sweet deal if we upgraded all our guns to the newest version, so we are going to wait. My rep stated initially the new guns will be going only to L/E and then eventually to the civilian market. YMMV

GunNut
February 26, 2012, 04:13 PM
Wonder how long until these new trigger guns hit the market? Thinking about picking up a M&P to compare to my Glock 17 and Caracal F, but would probably be best to get the updated trigger.

CarlJ
May 3, 2012, 09:27 PM
Any word on this new pistol? Interested in a 45.

FMF Doc
May 3, 2012, 09:37 PM
The "newest" m&p trigger is the one on the Shield. It is AWESOME! Light, crisp, smooth and has a very nice reset. They fixed all the problems the M&P triggers used to have and I dare say it is as good or BETTER than even the M&P Pro Series triggers. I have heard here is an APEX kit comming for the Shield, but I have not plans to do anything to the trigger on mine, except use it...a lot! If they put this trigger on future M&Ps, APEX will have to find a gravy train.

9mmepiphany
May 3, 2012, 09:49 PM
Some of the Apex parts fit on the Shield...they recently put 1000 rounds through one in testing.

Being better than the Pro isn't too big a thing. The problem with the M&P is consistency. It is mostly a trigger bar problem...Apex is working on designing one

grayhambone
May 12, 2012, 01:19 PM
the trigger is going to be exactly like one on the sheild. Obviously they aren't going to be inter-changable but the same solid pull. I know everyone says the glocks trigger is mushy. but it's the same thing everytime. no mush just a striker fired.

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