Illinois proposes tax on ammo to pay for trauma centers


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usmarine0352_2005
February 22, 2012, 12:03 AM
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They never quit and never will. This is just like their attempt at making lead bullets illegal to hurt shooters under the guise of helping the environment.




http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/21/gun-rights-groups-decry-proposed-surtax-on-illinois-ammo-sales/?test=latestnews


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Gun-rights groups decry proposed surtax on Illinois ammo sales

By Judson Berger

Published February 21, 2012

| FoxNews.com



An Illinois lawmaker wants gun owners to shell out extra taxes in order to finance a new grant program for trauma centers, a move firearms advocacy groups say amounts to a "sin tax" on law-abiding hunters and target shooters.
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El Mariachi
February 22, 2012, 12:20 AM
In ********** about 9 years ago, Rob Reiner (of All in the Family fame) somehow jammed a rather large cigarette tax upon us, with the additional revenue$ supposedly going to more smoking prevention campaigns and cancer research. But as of last month, that account contains almost 5 billion dollars-----just sitting there----doing absolutely nothing. Of course the Dems here have been trying to figure out a way for years to get their grubby little paws on that cash and spend it on their own silly pet projects that have nothing to do with smoking, but hey, that's just SOP with these people....:(

doc2rn
February 22, 2012, 12:45 AM
Bet you begin to see alot more mail order ammo purchases there!

Dr_B
February 22, 2012, 12:53 AM
And then they'll either make it illegal to buy ammo via mail order, or they'll tax it so high no one can afford to shoot it.

Rob Reiner, by the way, has done all sorts of harmful things in the name of helping people. He makes good movies, but he has zero brains when it comes to public policy.

What is wrong with Illinois? Is Chicago the source of the troubles people continually deal with in Illinois or is there some sort of state-wide culture causing it?

Davey Wavey
February 22, 2012, 01:32 AM
Dr B, the problem is Chicago and many surrounding suburbs. The rest of the state for the most part is normal.

Onmilo
February 22, 2012, 08:35 AM
the rest of the state for the most part is normal

Hence the reason we have a city down here called Normal,,,

jrdolall
February 22, 2012, 08:40 AM
Illinois faces many of the same probelms that other states face. Michigan is, in general, a very conservative place but the Detroit area has the high population so the state tends to lean in that direction. NY has NYC, MA has Boston, FL has, ummm, lots of old people from NY and NJ. IL has Chicago. I was at a hotel just outside Chicago a couple of months ago and there was a hand sanitizer dispenser in each elevator. This is apparently a county law? Why do we need a hand sanitizer mandated to be in an elevator? Get outside the Chicago area and IL is a great place to be.

Ryanxia
February 22, 2012, 09:23 AM
That's really scary, the government doubles the price of gas and cigarettes with their taxes, ammo could be right behind.

Time to start buying all the equipment to completely manufacture your own ammo :)

JoeMal
February 22, 2012, 09:28 AM
Hence the reason we have a city down here called Normal,,,
I used to live there...how are things? :)

I'm so glad I got out of that state!

JustinJ
February 22, 2012, 09:58 AM
Of course the Dems here have been trying to figure out a way for years to get their grubby little paws on that cash and spend it on their own silly pet projects that have nothing to do with smoking, but hey, that's just SOP with these people....

Maybe those dems need to mimic my state's republicans who have managed to get their grubby little paws on cig taxes for pet projects that have nothing to do with smoking.

BCCL
February 22, 2012, 10:26 AM
I propose a tax on Chicago politicians to help fund mental health clinics............

Panzercat
February 22, 2012, 10:40 AM
You know, I'd be willing to bet that nobody intends to outright control your purchase of ammunition-- That's merely a side benefit. This is a sin tax. Like tobacco. They figure that firearms are morally unpopular enough that the majority will simply nod and look the other way while they find another way to fleece the tax payer. Greed first. And if it just happens to benefit the gun control lobby, sure, good stuff.

Carl N. Brown
February 22, 2012, 10:43 AM
Do they tax cars to pay for trauma centers?

Sounds like a punitive "sin tax" on ammo to me, too.

OpelBlitz
February 22, 2012, 10:50 AM
That's pretty much what it is, a "sin tax."

So tired of living here, wish I could move out of this state. The non-Chicagoland portion of IL isn't too bad, but I need to escape the reign of Potatohead.

Anyway, didn't the Village of Oak Park also propose a tax of sorts for their gun-owning residents as well? (For those who don't know, Oak Park is a suburb of Chicago)

Ragnar Danneskjold
February 22, 2012, 10:54 AM
Maybe those dems need to mimic my state's republicans who have managed to get their grubby little paws on cig taxes for pet projects that have nothing to do with smoking.

Just an FYI, but this forum does prohibit speaking of politics and political parties in ways that don't relate to guns. Just letting you know.

JustinJ
February 22, 2012, 11:10 AM
Just an FYI, but this forum does prohibit speaking of politics and political parties in ways that don't relate to guns. Just letting you know.

Huh, well then you better get busy reminding the countless right wing politcal posts that pretty much always chime in to derail posts. You know, like in this thread.

My point is that if this gun related bill is passed it wont be just democarats to misappropriate the funds.

Yoda
February 22, 2012, 11:25 AM
Do guns REALLY cause most of the trauma cases, or do cars? I heard that power tools also cause a lot of traumatic injuries. Maybe those should be taxed out of existence, too.

- - - Yoda

JFrame
February 22, 2012, 11:25 AM
On the other hand, how does it help to stick one's head in the sand and ignore the political affiliation of the person who introduced this bill (D-Chicago, 14th District)?


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zdc1775
February 22, 2012, 11:26 AM
Not to derail but did anyone else notice that the picture with the caption ".223 rifle bullets" was actually a .223 round on top of .40 S&W?

Like everone else has said it's a sin tax. Hopefully it won't go anywhere but you never know.

LT89
February 22, 2012, 11:26 AM
In ********** about 9 years ago, Rob Reiner (of All in the Family fame) somehow jammed a rather large cigarette tax upon us, with the additional revenue$ supposedly going to more smoking prevention campaigns and cancer research. But as of last month, that account contains almost 5 billion dollars-----just sitting there----doing absolutely nothing. Of course the Dems here have been trying to figure out a way for years to get their grubby little paws on that cash and spend it on their own silly pet projects that have nothing to do with smoking, but hey, that's just SOP with these people....

We have the same BS here. The gov. keeps raising taxes on tobacco, alcohol and fossil fuels under the auspices of discouraging people to use them because of the damage they do, which at least sounds somewhat credible if they actually invested any of the billions they collect into tobacco/alcohol prevention and research on alternative fuels.

But instead it all ends up being used by the gov. for totally unrelated things. The petrol prices are at an all time high of €1.83 per liter, of which more than 75% goes to the gov's pocket! The most stupid thing of all, they say they collect taxes on petrol, diesel and LPG to discourage the use of carbon emitting fuels and encourage people to use alternatives and drive more fuel efficient cars. Yet when people started making their own biodiesel to use in specially adapted cars, they were handed out heavy fines for using untaxable fuels. However, due to an (intentionally) complicated bureaucracy, paying taxes on the much cheaper and environmentally friendly biodiesel is impossible so the only options that remain are buying the heavilly taxed and environmentally unfriendly petrol, diesel and lpg. How twisted is that?!!

jim243
February 22, 2012, 11:36 AM
The city of Chicago already taxes firearms and their owners, in addition to the FOID for the State of Illinois, there is a $100 registration fee for a CFP (Chicago Firearm Permit) and $15.00 per firearm registration fee as well as annual reporting.

And as to the State of Illinois taxing ammo sales, they currently do and if you purchase anything out of state, mail order or otherwise, you are required to enter the amount on your Illinois 1040 tax return and pay the taxes on it.

Just FYI

Jim

HoosierQ
February 22, 2012, 11:38 AM
Folks, it's Illinois. Why do we expect any different. I do sympathise with all the regular, salt of the earth folks that live south of the Illinois river (or I-88 or whatever arbitrary line you'd draw to separate the state of Illinois from "Chicagoland", the tentacles of which reach into Indiana and even Wisconsin.

At some point, that state is going to have to split up into the two states it really is and there'd be Illinois (the part south of the river) and then there'd be Chicago and then we'd have two (NY NY = Chicago, Chicago).

There, all fixed.

22-rimfire
February 22, 2012, 11:49 AM
In Tennessee, there is a $0.10 state tax per box of ammunition. There is a stamp on each box of shells. This goes to fish & wildlife which seems like an okay idea to me since I support the agency in general. Some might get their ammunition on line to avoid the tax, but if the ammunition is available locally for a fair price, I buy it and pay the tax. I buy a hunting and fishing license annually even if I don't even make it out into the field simply because I support the program.

JustinJ
February 22, 2012, 11:51 AM
On the other hand, how does it help to stick one's head in the sand and ignore the political affiliation of the person who introduced this bill (D-Chicago, 14th District)?

What does it contribute to point out he is a democrat in this context? There are numerous democrats who are pro gun and receive favorable ratings from the NRA. Yes, more dems are "anti gun" than republicans but there is no universal rule. Seeing a D and assuming antigun or a an R and assuming progun is what i would consider sticking one's head in the sand.

tyeo098
February 22, 2012, 11:53 AM
Not so much the party association, but the locale from which they represent.

In this bill, the money would go to "high crime areas". What area has higher crime than Chicago?

bergmen
February 22, 2012, 11:55 AM
Rob Reiner, by the way, has done all sorts of harmful things in the name of helping people. He makes good movies, but he has zero brains when it comes to public policy.


This is why his TV Dad (Carroll O'Conner) called him "Meathead" all the time. He was right!

I don't know if his movies are any good or not since if his name is on the credits, I ignore it.

Dan

22-rimfire
February 22, 2012, 11:57 AM
Yep, Chicago.... that is one city I would never live in. Been offered a job there in the past and declined due to my distain for the city and its politics.

So, what group would most benefit from this progam?

JFrame
February 22, 2012, 12:02 PM
Yes, more dems are "anti gun" than republicans but there is no universal rule.

I think you answered the question right there -- we need to keep an eye on all potentially gun-grabbing politicians, but evidently those with a D attached after their names more than otherwise. And only the Democrat party, on their own website, has ever chosen to make "sensible gun laws" a part of their party platform.

However, I'm certainly not going to argue that there aren't some horrible statists on both sides of the aisle.


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PT92
February 22, 2012, 12:03 PM
Plain and simple the Southern part of Illinois is going to have to try and wrestle control from the thugs up North in Chi-Town and they better get started. Chicago cannot continue to run that State or it might as well cede from the Union of which ironically its beloved native President so valiantly fought to preserve. The Mayor of a City is more important than the Governor of the State--it's sick! Moreover, they might as well make Chi-Town the Capitol and rename it "The Peoples Republic of Chi-Town."

-Cheers

jim243
February 22, 2012, 12:04 PM
In this bill, the money would go to "high crime areas". What area has higher crime than Chicago?

East St. Lewis, IL., Gary, IN, Hammon, IN, Joliet, IL just to name a few.

Jim

The Lone Haranguer
February 22, 2012, 12:22 PM
If it were passed, somehow I doubt if any of the money is actually going to go to trauma centers. :rolleyes: It will go to the same place the tobacco companies settlement money will.

Certaindeaf
February 22, 2012, 01:31 PM
My "gall"bladder has been traumatized.

NG VI
February 22, 2012, 01:43 PM
Ten cents per box that goes to Fish and Game isn't bad at all, I mean that's the definition of a reasonable level of taxation and it's going to an appropriate agency for clearly related use.

Putting some blanket tax on ammunition to fund trauma centers is ridiculous, punitive, and is an attempt to punish people who aren't on the same wavelength as the establishment for the state. Doesn't Illinois have the fines that go to a victim's fund for people convicted of crimes?

mdauben
February 22, 2012, 01:45 PM
East St. Lewis, IL., Gary, IN, Hammon, IN, Joliet, IL just to name a few.

I've been to East St. Louis for my job. Its nothing but hazardous waste and strip clubs. They should just bull doze the whole city into the Mississipi River and start over.

Resist Evil
February 22, 2012, 02:08 PM
Engineering society via taxation is a mark of tyranny. High taxes on ammunition to inhibit its consumption and to fund things that will likely not receive the money is tyranny.

To attempt to deny that this effort is not political is just silly, IMO. In the entire history of gun control efforts, say from the Civil War to present, there is but one political party mostly responsible.

wannabeagunsmith
February 22, 2012, 02:11 PM
Retards. What BS.

jon_in_wv
February 22, 2012, 02:18 PM
The real retards are the people who keep voting people like this into office. You get the government you deserve.

I think gun owners need to get much more active in educating the public and campaigning to get rid of people like this.

wild cat mccane
February 22, 2012, 02:30 PM
If all the democrats of The High Road started making fun of message bills in states like Utah (we have one right now that reaffirms the affirmed open carry laws of Utah...huh?) it would be shut down quick.

Look at these posts, half are political. Not gun related. There needs to be better control in this website.

This attitude is antithetical to increasing the perception of the cause.

Onmilo
February 22, 2012, 06:54 PM
JoeMal Normal is about 75 miles east of me so I can't say how things are, but this link to a weather cam may bring back some fond memories of the Bloomington/Normal area. :)

http://www.centralillinoisnewscenter.com/weather/skywatch-cameras/downtown-bloomington

Carl N. Brown
February 22, 2012, 07:38 PM
The power to tax can be the power to regulate for legitimate state purposes. The State of Tennessee levies a 10 cent ($0.10) tax per box of ammunition, for the State Wildlife Resources Agency. Per sales unit, which may be a box of 5 rifled slugs or a spam can of 440 7.62x54R.

However, the SCOTUS has recognized that the power to tax can be used as "the power to destroy" (McCulloch v. Maryland, 17 U.S. (4 Wheat.) 316 (1819)).

Gun control groups have proposed taxes on ammunition up to 5000% or fifty times the cost of the ammunition.

22-rimfire
February 22, 2012, 08:16 PM
However, the SCOTUS has recognized that the power to tax can be used as "the power to destroy" (McCulloch v. Maryland, 17 U.S. (4 Wheat.) 316 (1819)).


Yep. In IL, I'd have to suspect that the tax leans toward the power to destroy simply because of the politics are so anti gun and they clearly disaggree with the Supreme Court decisions concerning individual rights and so forth.

There are many in TN that "kick" about paying the 10-cent tax per box of ammo. I recall driving up through GA and thinking I'd stop at Walmart for some 22 ammo to avoid the tax.... well the idiots there still had the 6-box limit in place that that been dropped by Walmart corporate months beforehand and there was no reasoning with them. I understand people not wanting to pay any tax, but the funds are used for a good cause which benefits many of the people in TN and only paid by a few.

Onmilo
February 22, 2012, 10:04 PM
In the case of Illinois as has been proven in the past with gambling revenues for school purposes blah blah.
Taxes do NOT fund anything useful to the citizens of this state!

medalguy
February 22, 2012, 11:12 PM
If they really wanted to fund tauma centers, how about taxing alcohol? I'll wager there are more admissions to trauma centers as a result of alcohol misuse than from ammunition misuse. While we're at it, how about baseball bats and hammers? Anyone got any statistics?

JTHunter
February 22, 2012, 11:44 PM
DAGNABIT! Bergmen beat me to it! (RE: "Meathead")

JTHunter
February 22, 2012, 11:48 PM
Rahm wants to put a $65 licensing fee PER GUN on ALL guns. If this piece of bovine excrement were to pass, you can bet that 90% of it would go to Chicago trauma centers, if it actually went to any of them!

JohnnyK
February 22, 2012, 11:50 PM
they should tax corruption.... they'd make a LOT more money than taxing ammo! Chicago... the armpit of America...

Diggers
February 23, 2012, 03:43 AM
Better start taxing cars too....and icy sidewalks.

JO JO BANG
February 23, 2012, 03:57 AM
I hope not

Ryanxia
February 23, 2012, 08:28 AM
Hope they get a petition going if there isn't one already.

22-rimfire
February 23, 2012, 08:35 AM
Rahm wants to put a $65 licensing fee PER GUN on ALL guns.

That has been tried in other states, but Rahm might just make it happen. He is rabidly anti-gun to the point he doesn't seem to want the citizens of Chicago to be able to defend themselves.

El Mariachi
February 23, 2012, 10:17 AM
Mrs. Mariachi has a cousin who lives outside of Chicago----helluva great guy who's hosted us twice at his vacation house over by Apple Lake. He's very level headed, very pro 2A, despises what passes for politics-as-usual in Illinois......and does a few hours a week on one of Chi-Towns am talk radio shows. I'm gonna try to get a hold of him today and see if he's up for some good olde fashioned Anti 2A debating on the air with some of these polis who have made Chicago look almost as bad as D.C.......

Neverwinter
February 23, 2012, 11:23 AM
It boggles the mind how many people in this thread are calling for taxes on things that are already taxed.

Sent using Tapatalk

hnk45acp
February 23, 2012, 01:50 PM
How about taxing the families of people that shoot people and send them to the trauma centers

Ragnar Danneskjold
February 23, 2012, 07:39 PM
How about taxing the families of people that shoot people and send them to the trauma centers

Those people probably are not only not paying any taxes already, but are likely consuming more than their fair share of our tax dollars. You cannot tax someone who's only money is already yours.

narcoden
February 23, 2012, 07:44 PM
Meh, I mail order my ammo in bulk anyhow.

Neverwinter
February 24, 2012, 12:55 AM
How about taxing the families of people that shoot people and send them to the trauma centers
How would that work, exactly? Would the family have to apply for a tax stamp before their relative shoots someone? Presumably it would be on a progressive distribution where the highest earners would bear the greatest burden for the stamp.

Sent using Tapatalk

john1911
February 24, 2012, 10:18 AM
A lot of anti gun BS has been proposed by Chicago dems in the past few weeks.

My take on it is that they are scared of CCW passing. They want bargaining chips on the table and input on the CCW law.

On another topic, guns (and thus discussions on guns) have become a very political topic. It's very difficult to discuss guns in-depth and not touch on politics. The last thing this particular forum needs is more "control".

Nicky Santoro
February 24, 2012, 10:36 AM
Illinois proposes tax on ammo to pay for trauma centers

What they really mean.....

Illinois proposes tax on ammo to tax out of existence what they can't seem to legislate out of existence

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