Taurus Judge For The Wife to use??


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JediKnight
February 22, 2012, 06:37 AM
So my wife and I have been discussing getting her a home defense gun for about a year now. She doesn't like my semi-autos so we've been looking at different revolvers. We've pretty much been set on the Ruger SP101 so she could use .38 specials or 357's whatever she felt more comfortable shooting. Last weekend we went shooting and I had her practice with my 9mm glock and she was making about 4 foot groups at maybe 10 yards. I'm wondering if maybe I ought to get her a taurus judge. Would the spread from that be adequate to compensate for her shooting ability at all. I want to use straight buckshot either 000 or 0000. What kind of groups could I expect at 3-5 yards. I'm guessing it will be almost insignificant. She likes the sp101 a lot more. If I'm not going to get any spread from the judge at these ranges I'd prbably just go with the ruger.

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nelson133
February 22, 2012, 06:49 AM
A short barreled .410 with rifling ill definitely give you a spread, some people call these bagel shooters because of the pattern. That does not translate into an effective self defense weapon though. Hitting a bad guy with one buckshot pellet somewhere is not something I would want anyone I cared about to depend on.
Let her find a pistol that fits her and get her a little professional training and she should be able to hit what she needs to just fine. Remember to let her pick out what she wants, you just pay for it.

MyGreenGuns
February 22, 2012, 06:56 AM
I would keep looking. I own a Judge, but I think of it more as a range toy.

The grouping does spread a bit with shotshell. That is not a suitable fix for poor shooting however.

I tried some PDX rounds with the coinshot and the coins tend to group closely. Although I had a few of them fail to fire, so I dont trust the rounds for self defense.

theicemanmpls
February 22, 2012, 07:02 AM
If you love your wife, please don't buy her a Taurus. Despite what you see in the movies, short barreled shot guns which the Judge sort of is, don't spray the room full of deadly pellets ten feet from the muzzle.

I agree with Mr. Nelson about the professional training. Ever try and teach a female relative how to drive? it is worse with shooting. No offense to the ladies, but sometimes, the training chemistry is not a good fit.

What else I would do, is find a shooting range that rents pistols. Let her try the grip, and weight. Start small.

If unable to do a professional, start with a pellet gun, or a .22 rife. Teach the fundamentals on the rifle first. After she is comfortable, with that, move up to a .22 pistol.

I would recommend a wheel gun. Simple to use.

I like the .22 mag S&W revolver.

weregunner
February 22, 2012, 07:35 AM
As much as I like the Judge concept the problem is that the Judge has to be aimed like regular firearm. That is one cannot point in the general area and pull the trigger and hope to hit the target.

The moral consequences and liabilites for hitting something that was not intended to be hit are extremely high. That includes other people and things.

The more projectiles loosed during a fight for life the more chance someone or something is going to be hit that should not be. There is no guarantee how the fight will progress or the outcome. There are just too many factors to be able to predict how a fight will go. Especially under duress when fine motor skills will be lost.

There is also no such thing as a typcal violent fight. You cannot predict all the possibilities or what will happen.

The Judge is a very close in weapon with .410 gauge shells. 7 or so yards and under. And a out to about 15-25 yards with .45 Colt rounds.

Recoil is considerable in a goodly number of models with either round. More of a pussycat with .45 Colt Cowboy rounds.

Let it be recommended that she take a look at these first.
http://corneredcat.com www.womenandguns.com www.babeswithbullets.com

Then have her take a basic gun course offered by www.nra.org or www.nssf.com . There are also women only classes. Gun stores,gun ranges, or gun clubs should have local access to these. Then she'll have a well rounded basic education as to what caliber/gun combo will work for her and her needs.

She can start out with .22lrf revolvers, but those have very heavy trigger pulls. Spring kits might take care of that, but there is the problem of primer getting a healthy enough a whack to set the primers off reliably. For some guns it's not a problem. For others it is.

There are the .32 calibers in .32 H&R magnum and the .32 S&W Long. These are mild cartridges that anyone new to shooting can handle. S&W,Ruger,Taurus,and Charter Arms make such models. In Ruger guise it's the .327 Federal magnum, but those revolvers can shoot the .32 H&R and .32 S&W Longs.

Taurus' .32 H&R magnum revolvers are still available, but not in large numbers. Taurus also has the 327 in .327 Federal magnum.

I use the Taurus 327 to compliment the Ruger GP-100 and Ruger SP101 in .327 Federal magnum.

The new Ruger SP-101 in .22lrf might be looked at. Seems like a fine item, but is not as heavy as say a S&W 617.

The .38 Special has a lot going for it like the .32 calibers. Both are versatile.
I'll leave all the revolver models out of this as there are too many to list here.

I'm partial to Taurus and Ruger products.

Stay away from the ultra light models for now regardless of the company. Those can be worked toward later if need be.

Charter Arms quality has improved and their .22lrf revolvers seem to work well. The snub revolvers for women are too light in my opinion.

weregunner
February 22, 2012, 07:40 AM
By the way. I come from where the majority of Judge owners gather.

I do not own a Judge, but do own Taurus revolvers of many various calibers. That includes from .22lrf up to .44 Special.

If the lady can handle hard recoiling guns, and there is no reason why she could not learn the proper recoil techniques, then let her try a Judge.

Better yet. Go to the local range and rent a Judge or S&W Governor and see how things go. I would suggest that take place after she gets the basic education.

weregunner
February 22, 2012, 07:41 AM
I think these guys hit the nail on the head. :)

oldfool
February 22, 2012, 08:21 AM
Lot of good advice already stated above, all of which boils down to a "snubbie shotgun" not being a good solution to anything.

OP said for home defense, that means any 'snubbie' would be a relatively poor choice vs anything else which fits her hand well. Bring enough gun to minimize recoil for the chosen loadings, enough handle to get a comfortable grip on, and enough barrel length and weight to minimize muzzle flip. The Ruger SP (especially the 3") is a good candidate: she could start off with 38 wadcutters or mild cowboy loads.

I interpret OP as specific to "newbie shooter". Leastways read nothing that suggested otherwise. Comments following presume that to be the case. Has she shot any handgun other than your 9mm Glock ? If not, a revolver is certainly the prime candidate to try next. Not everybody takes to autoloaders from the beginning, not even if they learn to love them later.

If indeed wife is new to handgun shooting, there is no better place to start than 22 rimfire. Learn to hit well first, step up power level at shooters own comfort zone pace, a step at a time. Not all DA rimfire revolvers have terrible triggers, either, but that is a subject onto itself. Nor is there anything wrong with starting off a new shooter with a SA only rimfire Ruger Single Six being perhaps the #1 most dominant candidate of all time, but if ye must go bare bones economy price, even a Heritage Rough Rider would do for a starter. SA only shooting should never be the ultimate goal for any defense handgun shooter, but a good start trumps a bad finish. Most newbie shooters will begin shooting SA anyway, no matter what gun you hand them, given a choice.

The 22 rimfire is the #1 all time best training tool there is, always has been.
Shooter must develop comfort, competence, consistency, and confidence (more or less in that order)... and nothing trumps rimfire for doing that. All the rest comes after, and the choices for after are unlimited.

Best of luck to you both.


PS
sidenote on 22 DA revolver triggers -
in deliberate deference to weregunner, a Taurus Only example
Taurus model 94 small "j frame" vs Taurus model 96 "k-frame", shock and awe class difference, night and day
You would have to try them side by side to believe the difference, really bad vs really good, the 96 runs as smooth as a K-22 Masterpiece
(alas they do not make the 96 anymore, not that I know of, mine was bought decades ago NIB)

kimbernut
February 22, 2012, 09:02 AM
old fool your name does not suit you. .22 LR is the best training aid ever!

That's the track I would take with a 20 ga. shotgun loaded with 000 Buck in the interim. Control with a full stock is much easier for most folks that have initial trouble with handguns. Pattern that shotgun at 10 yards and you may realize it's the absolute best home defense firearm available. Twenty 25 caliber pellets are awesome 10 to 40 yard but spread will not be much 'til at least 30 yards. My pattern at 20 yards is only 6-7". My wife was so impressed with her pattern board session that the High Power is now backup even though she is accurate with it as well..

Lawdawg45
February 22, 2012, 09:08 AM
So my wife and I have been discussing getting her a home defense gun for about a year now. She doesn't like my semi-autos so we've been looking at different revolvers. We've pretty much been set on the Ruger SP101 so she could use .38 specials or 357's whatever she felt more comfortable shooting. Last weekend we went shooting and I had her practice with my 9mm glock and she was making about 4 foot groups at maybe 10 yards. I'm wondering if maybe I ought to get her a taurus judge. Would the spread from that be adequate to compensate for her shooting ability at all. I want to use straight buckshot either 000 or 0000. What kind of groups could I expect at 3-5 yards. I'm guessing it will be almost insignificant. She likes the sp101 a lot more. If I'm not going to get any spread from the judge at these ranges I'd prbably just go with the ruger.

If it is just for home defense, why get her a handgun of questionable quality and performance? The Judge has had horrible range reports from both .410 and .45 colt, plus Taurus customer service is deplorable. Why not get her a shotgun? The price will be half of the Taurus.;)

LD

Guillermo
February 22, 2012, 09:11 AM
I really don't have much to add except WHAT THEY SAID.

no ability to aim and no penetration (stopping power)

You SP101 idea is outstanding.

The Judge idea...:uhoh:


(Kimbernut...Old Fool is inappropriately named. But keep your eye on him when you have him over to the house. Your pappy van winkle seems to disappear :cuss:)

Big Bore Dan
February 22, 2012, 09:14 AM
Yep, I agree with Lawdawg... If I were inthe OP's position I would first teach the wife how to shoot. Put up a silhouette target and teach her how to consistantly get a center mass group of 5-10" at 15 feet !. The comment about using 357 indoors is also a problem. The bullet from a 357 in a home defense situation will most likely go thru the intended target and into another area of the house!!!! 38 special is the way to go in your situation. I'd stay away from the Judge, it really is a novelty. The 410 for lack of a better word is a joke

bikemutt
February 22, 2012, 09:19 AM
If budget is not an issue consider a S&W Governor instead of a Judge, I've shot both, own the Gov and find it balances better, has less felt recoil, chambers .45 ACP as well, comes standard with a night sight and is overall a higher quality firearm.

Load it up with some Winchester PDX .410 shotshells and you'll find the close range pattern to be quite satisfactory. Penetration is another story, I have no first hand knowledge as to it's efficacy, but up close an personal I can't imagine a target swatting those pellets away like so many flies.

Two to four PDX .410 shells and the rest .45 ACP makes it a decent, close range SD gun IMO. Especially for someone who still may find themselves best served by a scattergun.

460Kodiak
February 22, 2012, 10:15 AM
If budget is not an issue consider a S&W Governor instead of a Judge, I've shot both, own the Gov and find it balances better, has less felt recoil, chambers .45 ACP as well, comes standard with a night sight and is overall a higher quality firearm.


+1 to this. My buddy just traded in his Judge on a Govenor. After about 50 rounds of .410 his wife was loading the Judge, and the cylinder and crane fell off the gun. :eek: He said he could never trust that gun again. Taurus revolvers are way too hit or miss for my liking.

Better yet, get the Ruger. SP101's are great guns, and just more effective in my opinion.

sixgunner455
February 22, 2012, 11:02 AM
You said she likes the SP101 better. Why are we discussing the Judge instead?

Get her a pair of SP101 revolvers: .22lr, and .357.

/thread

dprice3844444
February 22, 2012, 11:05 AM
Taurus Judge For The Wife?

wish i coulda got a trade like that,the divorce was expensive

19-3Ben
February 22, 2012, 11:11 AM
she was making about 4 foot groups at maybe 10 yards.

Seriously, I'd have her practice, then she should practice, and when she's done with that, i think a little practice might be in order.
4' at 10 yards is huge, and you wouldn't want a gun that will spread so much that it would compensate for that kind of shooting. If a shotgun (or shotgun chambered revolver) patterned 4' at 10 yards, there would be something severely wrong with that gun and spreading that much would be a liability.

If I were you, i might consider getting her something like a Ruger 10/22. She can practice with it at the range, and use it for HD. Sure, the .22lr isn't the most powerful round in the world, but if she's only backup HD for you anyway, and she's got a 25rd mag full of CCI Velocitor... you're on to something.
It'll be light, and easier for her to shoulder and shoot properly than a handgun.

Guillermo
February 22, 2012, 11:15 AM
wish i coulda got a trade like that,the divorce was expensive

Yeah...but then you would have a Judge

http://cdn2.holytaco.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2010/Puking-Pumpkin.jpg

xXxplosive
February 22, 2012, 11:28 AM
IMO.............no serious shooter would by the "Judge".

For a woman............?

weregunner
February 22, 2012, 12:20 PM
This is about what fits her and her needs and nothing else.

It would help the OP if some people would add constructive ideas instead of adding little or nothing to the dialogue.

This is about what she can shoot proficiently with. The largest caliber she's able to do that with.

skidder
February 22, 2012, 12:41 PM
We've pretty much been set on the Ruger SP101 so she could use .38 specials or 357's whatever she felt more comfortable shooting.

The OP needs to stick with his first thought...damn good one! My wife has been using hers since 95 and she still finds it sufficient. Great snub for home defense with 38 ammo. Felt recoil will not scare her away, and that is a big issue with some of these lighter 357s.

Guillermo-- How did you did get a picture of me after the last Christmas party?... or was that me when I received my gun back from Taurus? Can't remember.:confused:

Certaindeaf
February 22, 2012, 12:56 PM
K frame .38/.357 2-3" and some good grips. If she can hit a 3' 2x6 flatways at five feet, she'll be ahead of the game.

Stainz
February 23, 2012, 08:52 AM
Yeah, my first thought when I read, "Judge for a wife" was that it must be an ugly, mean, and useless wife... Now, a Governor, that would take one that at the very least wouldn't have to sneak up on a gourd to get a dip of water...

But - I now realize the OP wanted a protective revolver for his wife. Oops. That's very different. Let her decide! My wife hates my Governor - even with .45 ACPs. We went through some revolvers - she finally settled on my only blued revolver - a 2" 10 - with custom-fitted-to-her hand grip (Hogue goncalo alves rounded/fg). She can shoot quite accurately with it, both with my mild Montana Gold 125gr JHP plinkers and +P 158gr LHPSWC defenders. The key is - she selected it! Her previous favorite 'house gun' was my 5.5" SS .45 Colt Redhawk, which had been sold for years when she finally missed it. She can tell if I've touched that 2" 10!

Stainz

460Kodiak
February 23, 2012, 08:58 AM
deleted

Guillermo
February 23, 2012, 09:09 AM
Skidder,

It is no wonder that you don't remember.

To open a box and find a Judge inside can cause memories to be repressed.

I would suggest that you talk to your therapist but he is busy enough with that "other thing".

:neener:

460Kodiak
February 23, 2012, 09:37 AM
You know, if she is not going to be carrying this gun, I'd give the S&W 686+ some serious consideration. 7 rounds are better than 5, and a little extra weight will help with recoil. Not that 38's have much to begin with though. With the right grip, a K frame may be a good option.

I just want to share. The story I mentioned above, about the cylinder falling off my buddy"s Judge was on the second Judge he owned. The first one had such a bad timing issue that one of the chambers wouldn't fire at all. Another friend had a 6" Taurus .357. His timing was off so bad that the gun was close to binding up. 4 chambers had super loose lock up, and 2 of them there was almost no cylinder gap at all.

Two different people, three different bad Taurus revolvers. All of them have been resold. I have heard that there semi-autos are much better quality, but after my own first hand experience (3 x over), and all the bad stories I've read about Taurus customer service makes that a "Never Buy" company for me.

Thesae are guns that I handled, and shot first hand. This is not a "friend of a friend's cousin told me" story. If you really want a .45/.410 revolver, spend tha money and get a S&W Govenor. JMO

kanook
February 23, 2012, 09:54 AM
Since it will be for Home defence and not conceal carry

Get a 4" 357 or 38 that fits her hand and she likes it to start with

Doesn't matter how much it weighs sitting in a drawer. People seem to want the smallest and lightest hard hitting firearm for a drawer gun. It recoils hard the first time they take it out, get scared of it, don't practice.

4" will have a better sight radius (longer barrel) and less felt recoil (weight absorbs some recoil)

She will shoot it better (feel more confindent) and shoot more often (more training)

As she shoots better, she will want to shoot more (hopefully) that's when you get her something a little smaller and lighter for carry.

TarDevil
February 23, 2012, 10:32 AM
Just went through this with my daughter. She doesn't do well under stress and was having difficulty with handguns. We bought her a short barreled pump 12 ga. and she's doing very well with it. We continue working on the handguns, but until her proficiency improves she will depend on the pump for HD.

Guillermo
February 23, 2012, 10:44 AM
We bought her a short barreled pump 12 ga. and she's doing very well with it.

Excellent!!!

Serenity
February 23, 2012, 11:16 AM
I second the nomination for a K frame 38 Special. Mine is a model 67 that has a 4" barrel. My hands are not large or particularly strong, and this thing feels like it is pointing itself.

My suggestion; if your budget allows for it get a solid 38 special (trade in if necessary) and spend the rest of your money on the lightest ammo you can find. Don't shoot at targets; shoot at steel. It's pass/fail and that pinging noise is satisfying. Oh, and bring it in as close as you need to for her to get half her shots on the plate. When she can do that, move it back a little.

BCRider
February 23, 2012, 02:26 PM
Good grief, when I read the first post I mentally put in 4 INCHES at 10 yards. Here I'm reading down through the posts and everyone is saying that if she's shooting that bad that a Judge won't help any. Had to go back and re-read.

First things first. JekiKnight, you need to get her some lessons to stop her from clutching at the gun. With that sort of spread she's obvoiusly got a QUEEN SIZE flinch or is clutching at the gun as though she's literally squeezing the bullets out herself instead of letting the powder do its job... :D She needs to read and practice the factors related to shooting accurately in terms of proper and stable grip and how to build pressure on the trigger rather than snap at it.

As for the gun forget about the Judge. It's a heavy gun. Worse than that it's got a very muzzle heavy feel. She's far, far better off with something like the SP101 or a K frame S&W with a 4 inch barrel.

From the way she's reacting to shooting by the size of the groups it doesn't sound like it's something she is enjoying all that much. Or maybe she's not comfortable with all the noise and shock yet. If she's commited to becoming a decent shot then I agree with the other folks that a .22 for the two of you to share for a practice gun would be a nice way to go.

In addition it may be worth finding and watching and IDPA match in your area. If she thinks it looks like a style of shooting that she would enjoy then it'll give her goals to work towards in terms of safe handling of the gun along with a good blend of accuracy and speed in her shooting.

I'm a big believer in the idea that you react like you practice. And if all she ever does is shoot at a fixed alley at a range and handle the gun in a certain way then that is how she'll shoot all the time. And for a home situation that's not always a good thing. Something like IDPA puts us into a little pressure from the need to perform, makes us a lot more aware of safety in handling the gun and to make decently good decisions in terms of shoot or don't (no shoots and the like). It also encourages accurate shooting from a variety of stances and positions. There's even the possibility of some darker indoor flashlight lit practice depending on the clubs you find.

Most of all though she needs to get a low recoiling gun and work on the basics. With the way she's shooting now even the "bagel spread" of a Judge woudn't do much for hitting and disabling a bad guy. And then there's the risk that a round would travel past the bad guy and out of the house. Unless you've got brick outside walls this is a very real risk.

jahwarrior
February 23, 2012, 02:32 PM
So my wife and I have been discussing getting her a home defense gun for about a year now. She doesn't like my semi-autos so we've been looking at different revolvers. We've pretty much been set on the Ruger SP101 so she could use .38 specials or 357's whatever she felt more comfortable shooting. Last weekend we went shooting and I had her practice with my 9mm glock and she was making about 4 foot groups at maybe 10 yards. I'm wondering if maybe I ought to get her a taurus judge. Would the spread from that be adequate to compensate for her shooting ability at all. I want to use straight buckshot either 000 or 0000. What kind of groups could I expect at 3-5 yards. I'm guessing it will be almost insignificant. She likes the sp101 a lot more. If I'm not going to get any spread from the judge at these ranges I'd prbably just go with the ruger.
If she's looking for a carry gun, then forget the Judge. If she's looking for a gun for serious self defense, then forget the Judge. The Ruger SP101 or GP100 is the way to go; they're rock solid guns, super accurate, are easy to carry, and handle recoil better than most revolvers.

Also, some practicing wouldn't help. If she's getting 4' groups with a 9mm Glock, the spread from .410 buckshot isn't going to help her in the slightest, if she can't even hit the target.

MrAcheson
February 23, 2012, 04:08 PM
If your wife stinks with a handgun, then don't give her a handgun for self defense. It's really that simple. My wife is in the same boat in terms of proficiency. You need to either improve her proficiency with pistols or go with something else like a longarm.

Also the Judge is kind of an answer for a question no one asked. .410 out of a pistol is not likely to be a manstopper. If you use slugs, then you'd do better with .45 colt out of a revolver dedicated to that chambering.

skidder
February 23, 2012, 07:01 PM
I second the nomination for a K frame 38 Special.

Definitely a viable option. You can pick up a descent model 10 for under $300. The k-frame in 38 has a great balance, feel, trigger, and manageable recoil.

XD 45acp
February 23, 2012, 08:54 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ATAShooter/Wifeneed.jpg

jad0110
February 23, 2012, 10:09 PM
If she is grouping 4 feet at 10 yards with a standard centerfire, throwing the rather unpredictable patterning of the Judge into the mix will likely turn that in to a 6 to 7' group over a cylinder full at the same distance. With groups like that, at the moment, she is probably better served by a Louisville Slugger. And I'm not saying that to be nasty, it's just my opinion.

But that can be corrected. It sounds to me like she is flinching and possibly also closing her eyes for each shot. That is a relatively common newbie habit, particularly for those that might be more than a little gun shy, pardon the pun. The first few times my mother fired a gun (a .22 Heritage Rough Rider) she scrunched her eyes shut, grimaced, and craned her head and neck away from the gun as far as possible.

All in all, a .22 is the absolute best place to start. If someone is having trouble learning to drive a stick shift, it'd probably be a piss poor idea to start them out on a '70 Olds 442 with a torque monster, teeth rattling Rocket 455, wouldn't it? The SP101 is a nice little gun, and as another pointed out, it is also available in .22 again. She could start with the .22, then pick up a .38 or .357 later as her skills and confidence grow. With a .22 and good training, she'll likely be achieving quite respectable groups within an hour or so. As for .357 Magnum, I'm rather confident with my revolver shooting abilities, but I still stick to .38 Special for reduced blast and kick, which result in easier, faster (for me) follow-up shots.

The only reservation I have with current SP101s is that the triggers on most are fairly lousy (rough and gritty). They can be cleaned up by a competent gunsmith though. She might also consider S&W J and K Frames.

Another possibility is the long gun option. Shotgun or carbine, most folks will find a shoulder fired weapon easier to manage good, solid hits with. Granted, many don't care for 12 gauge kick, so maybe something in a 20 (let her try, of course). Or a rifle with only mild kick, like an M-1 Carbine or 5.56 AR. These may not be viable options for her, but it's something to at least ponder.

gbran
February 23, 2012, 10:18 PM
.410 handguns beat pepper spray hands down. I also suspect they may produce a whole lot of pain, but I don't think they would incapacitate as well as most centerfire defensive rounds.

V1ROT8
March 3, 2012, 05:09 PM
I own a Taurus Judge and the Ruger SP-101 357 model. Also the Ruger LCR 38+P model. My wife can use all of them and has shot them all. Her choice for self defense, the Ruger LCR.

S&Wfan
March 3, 2012, 05:41 PM
If you haven't already traded your wife for a judge, I'd recommend investing in some handgun training for her. Sounds like she's jerking the gun off target and excessive amount.

Most folks can at least group within a 2" area at ten yards after training.

jk2008
March 3, 2012, 06:55 PM
I would not recommend the Judge. I owned a Taurus Judge for a few months. The gun spent more time in their repair shop than it did in my home--and they never did get it to work reliably. That, combined with my frustration with their condescending and obnoxious representatives convinced me to trade the gun at my first opportunity and vow to never buy another Taurus product.

mgkdrgn
March 3, 2012, 09:47 PM
Hitting a bad guy with one buckshot pellet somewhere is not something I would want anyone I cared about to depend on.

If you only manage to hit them with ONE buckshot pellet, you would have most likely missed them entirely with a single projectile firearm (ie, pistol). And if you train to do better, you'll likely hit them with all 3 or 4 or 5, depending on the load.

One beats none any day of the week. 2, 3, 4, 5? Just icing on the cake.

Samari Jack
March 3, 2012, 10:10 PM
I would have to disagree with most of the responses. My wife owns a judge, practices with it, knows it 's limitations and stays within the typical attacker range of 15 ft. During my CCW course our inrstructor told us 12' and charging keep pulling till they stop charging. My expectations are that the bad guy suspect approaches, either in car or on foot, means get gun in hand still concealed but as the distance closed start point toward him/her (got to be PC with our senarios). Statistically, self-defense ranges are 5-12 feet for CCW, but more for LE. It is two levels of gun responsibility. Her Judge will put all 4 or 5 tripple "0"s on a man size target at that range. If half the load is of a bit there are more coming in rapid fire succession with repeated trigger pulls.

There is just no way to compare a Judge in a test with a typical pistol. It is more of a point and shoot gun. With a bit of practice and muscle memory, works for close up social work.

I might add the gun she buys should fit what see feels is her needs, is not afraid of, and will practice with. The recoil on our Judge with 2/12 inch loads is easily managed. I think if we had it to do over again, the 2/12 inch chamber would be easier to handle.

Judges are also available a laser to help close up sighting, especially at night.

Haywood
March 3, 2012, 10:20 PM
Buy the SP101. Clean the factory crap out of it and lube it. Dry fire the living crap out of it. Then dry fire it some more. I dry fire my revolvers at least 2000 times before I ever shoot them. When ever I get the chance I dry fire in between range times. Then load it with ammo she can control and hit with. Forget about the Judge.

JR47
March 4, 2012, 04:37 PM
I find it amusing that people are such Internet Experts on everything, especially on guns that they, themselves, have never owned, or shot. Then, to make it even more ludicrous, they recommend the Governor over the Judge, even though it does the EXACT same thing.

All of the 686s, Judges, Governor's, and so on discussed, will only teach the woman to flinch.

Start her in a .22, but move up to a more powerful round, unless she cannot physically handle them. Forget the .22 Magnum, it has the same priming system as the .22 long rifle, and misfires are just as likely.

The Ruger SP101 is the best choice mentioned so far. Or another gun in that frame-size. Even an over-priced S&W, if you don't know any better, might be reliable enough to trust her life to.

In the end, let her make the choice. Ownership by choice will make practice more attractive to her. :)

Rem.222
March 5, 2012, 08:07 AM
Buy her the SP 101 and a bunch of 38 wadcutters low noise, low recoil and often very accurate. Later step up to more hyper rounds.
The Judge is a solution to a nonexisting problem. I see no reason for over sized Judge. My .02 worth.

hang fire
March 5, 2012, 01:00 PM
My wife of 51 years has been a long time shooter and understands firearms very well. She is 70 years old and still reloads her own ammo and has several personal handguns.

About a year ago she bought her a Judge with 3" cylinder and it is her home and car defense weapon of choice. When she goes to bed at night, she places it within easy reach and in the exact same position so there is no guessing in the dark.


On a man size paper target, in just a couple seconds and DA, she can unleash 25 triple ought buck (.36 caliber balls) into center mass of target at 20 feet.

http://hstrial-rchambers.homestead.com/P10100071.JPG

Guillermo
March 5, 2012, 02:13 PM
I find it amusing that people are such Internet Experts on everything, especially on guns that they, themselves, have never owned, or shot.

one does not need to own a blunderbuss to know that it is not an effective weapon beyond a very short range.

hariph creek
March 5, 2012, 04:02 PM
Profesional Defensive TRAINING, not by you. After that I'd look at some TRAINING. Followed by some more TRAINING.

I like revolvers but, semi-auto's have less recoil. If she had some TRAINING she should could handle either one. Let her develop some skills before you settle on a gun.

Don't forget long guns. These too, require Training.

Of course, we as men, are natural born shooters and hunters and lovers of women. We don't need any training!

If it's not a carry gun, don't go small. A mid to full size gun is easier to shoot well and handles recoil better. Why sacrifice these things, if you don't have to?

The Judge is novel. It would make an incredible snake gun...

JR47
March 5, 2012, 04:13 PM
one does not need to own a blunderbuss to know that it is not an effective weapon beyond a very short range.

Only because others have actually tested, without Internet pontification.

Guillermo
March 5, 2012, 04:27 PM
Only because others have actually tested, without Internet pontification

Absolutely

That and an understanding of physics.

theicemanmpls
March 5, 2012, 08:04 PM
Profesional Defensive TRAINING, not by you. After that I'd look at some TRAINING. Followed by some more TRAINING.

I like revolvers but, semi-auto's have less recoil. If she had some TRAINING she should could handle either one. Let her develop some skills before you settle on a gun.

Don't forget long guns. These too, require Training.

Of course, we as men, are natural born shooters and hunters and lovers of women. We don't need any training!

If it's not a carry gun, don't go small. A mid to full size gun is easier to shoot well and handles recoil better. Why sacrifice these things, if you don't have to?

The Judge is novel. It would make an incredible snake gun...


I have seen a few firearms advertised as "snake guns". The judge, a derringer, a 410 shotgun.

When in venomous snake country, I make it a point to make noise. The snakes will move away. Snakes will only usually strike when cornered or frightened.

Why shoot them? They make a big dent in the rodent population.

It seems to me, the time it would take to remove a "snake gun" from holster, and deploy it, one could simply move away from the reptile.

Just saying.,,,,,,

Guillermo
March 5, 2012, 08:33 PM
one could simply move away from the reptile

In my habitat, the snake dies. My kids and pets are more valuable to me than a poisonous snake.

In the wild, I move away from the snake.

hariph creek
March 5, 2012, 09:27 PM
I agree with both of you. The only dangerous snakes in my part of the country, are courteous enough to rattle when you get to close. Since I will not be shooting any snakes... I guess, for me, The Judge is good for...?

76shuvlinoff
March 5, 2012, 10:08 PM
I had her practice with my 9mm glock and she was making about 4 foot groups at maybe 10 yards.

My wife shoots my autos like that. I believe it's just because she hates autos, it couldn't be due to the trainer ;) . After years of frustration on both our parts I recently handed her a 4" 38spcl, the spread went to 12-14 inches on the first cylinder and she ENJOYED it (yes it was SA shooting we are now working on DA).

just a thought

TarDevil
March 5, 2012, 10:29 PM
Why shoot them? They make a big dent in the rodent population.

It seems to me, the time it would take to remove a "snake gun" from holster, and deploy it, one could simply move away from the reptile.

Just saying.,,,,,,
Totally agree!
Why Kill Snakes (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=576582&highlight=why+kill+snakes)

Elm Creek Smith
March 5, 2012, 11:28 PM
My wife took my 4 inch S&W 681 away from me when I put Crimson Trace grips on it. Groups are tiny with 125 grain SJHP Remington +P .38s. Luckily, I have two K-frames and a J-frame to ease the loss.

OTOH, my brother has a 3 inch UltraLite Judge that he just loves. It isn't his primary carry, but it rides in his truck on road trips. His primary carry is a Kimber Pro Carry .45.

ECS

mgkdrgn
March 6, 2012, 04:29 PM
one does not need to own a blunderbuss to know that it is not an effective weapon beyond a very short range.
And for SD, it does not need to be. Well over 98% of SD shootings take place at 10 FEET or less.

In fact, the "short range" is an ADVANTAGE in an SD shooting, as your errant leads (for which you are liable) effectiveness will dissipate quickly with distance.

JR47
March 6, 2012, 08:11 PM
An understanding of physics? At under 10 feet, in a poorly lit circumstance, against an unarmored assailant, facing you. Oh, yeah, that requires a degree in physics to overcome.

The idea that a CCW holder will engage at more than 10 yards is the stuff of a D.A.s wet dreams. Like with the snake, if you're that far away, you can avoid it.

How so many people manage to drag 25 yards, or further, into a possible CCW encounter only does us a disservice.

At 7-10 feet, even .410 bird shot can be easily lethal. After all, how far away was the vice president when he put down one of his own while bird-hunting? Much more than 7-10 feet. So much for using "physics" to "prove" that the load doesn't work.

Guillermo
March 6, 2012, 10:39 PM
7-10 feet from a Judge has very little penetration in test after test

If it was all I had I would aim for the face and pray for blindness

oldfool
March 7, 2012, 07:57 AM
The point being made is that at 7 to 10 feet (or 7-10 yards), any centerfire service revolver cartridge is a far better option than 410 birdshot, far better odds of success.
If you are going to miss at that distance, a pretend shotgun is going to do nothing of value for you re: "devastating power" (Taurus' sales pitch phrase) or shot spread pattern

but you could just remove da' Judge barrel yourself maybe, to enhance it's "hallway clearing" devastation
just in case you are ever confronted by an enraged watermelon

Guillermo
March 7, 2012, 08:51 AM
as commercial growers genetically manipulate food this is a possibility.

The nice thing is that the pellets would not overpenetrate and endanger any fruit or veggies than might be behind the enraged watermelon.

mgkdrgn
March 7, 2012, 09:11 AM
7-10 feet from a Judge has very little penetration in test after test

If it was all I had I would aim for the face and pray for blindness
I dunno ... mine put buckshot clean through 2 back to back 2x6's at that distance ... seemed like plenty enough penetration to me.

Guillermo
March 7, 2012, 09:29 AM
mine put buckshot clean through 2 back to back 2x6's

balsa?

MCgunner
March 7, 2012, 03:06 PM
When in venomous snake country, I make it a point to make noise. The snakes will move away. Snakes will only usually strike when cornered or frightened.

Why shoot them? They make a big dent in the rodent population.

Make noise? ROFLMAO! You ever even SEEN a rattler? You can make all kinds of noise and still get hit. I've been hit and I was being petty noisy at the time. I'm not THAT stupid, though, own and wear snake boots, cheaper and far more effective snake protection than any firearm.

I've shot and fried up a few. I don't just shoot 'em for the spite, not phobic or anything. If they're in my yard, a garden hoe works great and isn't a class C misdemeanor to use.

theicemanmpls
March 7, 2012, 07:46 PM
Make noise? ROFLMAO! You ever even SEEN a rattler?YES

I worked in The Sonoran Desert area for years. I was the ramrod on a crew installing OSP for the local telco. You name it, we saw it.
The only critters that were fatalities were the scorpions.

To avoid an internet pissing contest, let me post the facts.

"When in the wilderness, treading heavily creates ground vibrations and noise, which will often cause snakes to flee from the area. However, this generally only applies to North America as some larger and more aggressive snakes in other parts of the world, such as king cobras[22] and black mambas,[23] will protect their territories. When dealing with direct encounters it is best to remain silent and motionless. If the snake has not yet fled it is important to step away slowly and cautiously." - from wikipedia listed below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snakebite

http://www.snakesofarizona.com/venomous.htm

I wonder why Taurus hasn't made a scorpion gun yet. IMHO, they are a bigger threat to people in AZ then any snake.

Certaindeaf
March 8, 2012, 01:14 AM
Two pages, didn't read. So it's best do go hog/deer dropping with birdshot?

theicemanmpls
March 8, 2012, 08:38 AM
You don't know? Why the judge is a death ray with its .410!

Amazing, that in some circles, a regular .410 shotgun is considered a novelty gun.

You will see very few, if any .410 shotguns in duck blinds.

You will see very few, if any .410's in the shotgun deer zones.

Nothing at all wrong with the .45 Colt round when fired through a properly rifled pistol barrel. A SAA comes to mind.

IMHO, this pistol is not for use beyond five feet. Most self defense shootings occur within 21 feet. So, I concede, this is a anti car jack gun. However, where to you store it?

MCgunner
March 8, 2012, 11:18 PM
"When in the wilderness, treading heavily creates ground vibrations and noise, which will often cause snakes to flee from the area. However, this generally only applies to North America as some larger and more aggressive snakes in other parts of the world, such as king cobras[22] and black mambas,[23] will protect their territories. When dealing with direct encounters it is best to remain silent and motionless. If the snake has not yet fled it is important to step away slowly and cautiously." - from wikipedia listed below.

Well, ain't no rocks and it's usually wet and muddy on my place. I guess stomp sounds don't travel in grass, mud, and water, eh? I just wear snake boots, best investment against snakes. I've walked right by and been hit by a couple of snakes. The boots work. Didn't shoot 'em. I mean, there's a bazillion of 'em, ain't like you're going to thin 'em out or anything. I've actually been CHASED by water snakes, which are often mistaken for moccasins which we have a lot of. I've never had a moccasin chase me, though they have a rep for it.

Eb1
March 9, 2012, 06:23 PM
.22 Mag Double Action Revolver.

She is obviously scared of the more powerful cartridges, and needs some confidence more than she needs a Taurus Judge.

Get her shooting a .22 LR or .22 Magnum revolver. NOW!

Or eve better a 18.5" 20 gauge with #3 Buckshot. Teach her to shoot that. Leave the handguns alone until you can get a .22 for her to use for practice.

oldfool
March 9, 2012, 07:26 PM
no shortage of rattlers in either Texas or south Georg1a
the 'McGunner Method' works for me
(if it don't, just throw a watermelon on 'em !)

410s is for wabbits and doves and 'Ritz cracker clays'
love 'em though, 410s, snubbies not, only got four of 'em, non-snubbie flavor, best shot from your shoulder
(well, for Texas jackwabbits, 454 Casull or 8 gauge mebbe)

Scorpion Gun... love it.. ROFLMAO !
even money sez Taurus will introduce the Taurus Scorpion before end-of-year
or they could just call it the "da' Scorpion Stigma"
in 25 caliber, with new & improved 25 caliber magnum cartridges, and 25 caliber mini-frisbee personal De-fense loads for 'da-gun by Federal.. shotshells for bugs only
the next 'Big Thing', ought sell like hot cakes in Death Valley
"make my day... bug !"

PS
ought not laugh too loud, those Texas scorpions will run you right out of your own house in Texas
and those Texas tarantulas will stop traffic on the highway - but it don't take a whole lot of shot penetration to squish 'em, just shoot for COM, CNS hits not required :D

bassdogs
March 9, 2012, 09:31 PM
Got to wonder why some spend so much time repeating their opinion on a Judge when all they have to say is I don't like them and won't own one.

I do like mine and it is in my wife's console. Enough said.

oldfool
March 9, 2012, 10:08 PM
just because it is harder to not poke fun at some things than others, I think
somewhat related to "new" (not).."different" (not).." improved" (not), much less "better than" X, Y, or Z (not)
the watermelon commercial is much to blame for our overblown silliness, it is (cutesy 'names' don't help none either)

But if your wife is happy with it, and you are happy with your wife, you ought not let us jokesters matter.. you already have all the really important stuff real well covered, you do
Comfort and Confidence always were two of the top four that matter most in shooting
and if she is four for four (Competence and Consistency) she has 99% of us fools beat right out of the gate
(I would bet on her vs 85% of the people I see at local range, no matter what they have in hand)

sleep well

PS
we be just as harsh on the da' Jubernator, you know, if it matters ;)
it's like dangling raw meat in front of a junkyard dawg... nobody ever said junkyard dawg was smart

oldfool
March 9, 2012, 10:43 PM
If we did this to the NAA-mini rimfire folks they would just drag us out of bed in the middle of the night and shoot us

say it ain't so :what:

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