Actual CCW contact survival experiences?


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charlie echo
February 22, 2012, 07:12 PM
OK, we know that folks with unlucky or unskillful CCW contacts might have already passed on from our world, but from any of you actually survived such an encounter, or know of such event(s), please share your experience(s)? Or point to where I may have missed such real world insights in my Searches in THR...

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FMF Doc
February 22, 2012, 07:39 PM
Like a civilian asking a combat veteran about their "experiance" you will likely get very few responses, and what you may get, may not be what you were looking for. Those who have been there, usually don't talk about it.

Certaindeaf
February 22, 2012, 07:43 PM
I heard that some guy and all like that.. that was the best story ever!

charlie echo
February 22, 2012, 07:49 PM
Well, that is what I had guessed, not many, if any at all, want to publish an "It Happemed To Me" kind of story with their concealed sidearm...

Many confuse what it takes to kill, when having the initiative, vs. what it takes to stop an attemp-to kill-in-progress when surprised, often involving multiple shots returned, perhaps while already bleeding, under duress, with movements involved, likely in dim lighting...

Certaindeaf
February 22, 2012, 07:52 PM
Well, that is what I had guessed, not many, if any at all, want to publish an "It Happemed To Me" kind of story with their concealed sidearm...

Many confuse what it takes to kill vs. what it takes to stop an attemp-to kill-in-progress when surprised, often involving multiple shots returned, fire under duress, with movements involved, likely in dim lighting...
If you are willing, pray tell.

charlie echo
February 22, 2012, 08:03 PM
I do not know any useful stories myself, tho I refer to the lessons of the Miami 1986 FBI incident: basic knowledge...
-wear a holster.
-carry speed loaders or magazines, practice reloading while timed
-practice accurate shooting while timed.
-load for as much penetration* with the HP or wide meplat (wadcutter, flat nose) bullets that can be controlled in rapid fire.
-if you can't find cover/concealment then close the distance while continuing aimed shots
-try not to get caught alone: prevention by awareness beats having to be the only one shooting back

So goes the theory, I'm guessing if it happens there be chaos, pain, lots of my own blood spilled, and huge adrenaline dump, if still alive

*so, the weakest bullet we load is the 158 grain +P Special, but I prefer bullets that can exit or break through frontal skull or spinal column...

docnyt
February 22, 2012, 08:23 PM
Look up Tom Givens. He made a DVD of the stories his students were in. Actual encounters analyzed by Tom and broken down into useful stages. Very insightful.

Certaindeaf
February 22, 2012, 08:27 PM
There have been many historic events. Do not occupy your mind with historic events.

charlie echo
February 22, 2012, 08:35 PM
Not occupied, but mindful of lessons learnable and adaptable.

Be happy and be prepared

charlie echo
February 22, 2012, 08:36 PM
Look up Tom Givens. He made a DVD of the stories his students were in. Actual encounters analyzed by Tom and broken down into useful stages. Very insightful.


Thank you.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/0dd34c7888d0fdf725f46f2242b55b32-939.html

Off topic treat: http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2006//08/1936008

JustinJ
February 22, 2012, 08:41 PM
do not know any useful stories myself, tho I refer to the lessons of the Miami 1986 FBI incident: basic knowledge...
-wear a holster.
-carry speed loaders or magazines, practice reloading while timed
-practice accurate shooting while timed.
-load for as much penetration* with the HP or wide meplat (wadcutter, flat nose) bullets that can be controlled in rapid fire.
-if you can't find cover/concealment then close the distance while continuing aimed shots
-try not to get caught alone: prevention by awareness beats having to be the only one shooting back

There are far better cases that apply to CCW holders than a group of law enforcement agents attempting to apprehend dangerous and armed fugitives in a vehicle. Citizen uses of a concealed weapon pretty much never go down that way.

If one wants to read actual accounts go here:
http://www.nrapublications.org/index.php/armed-citizen/

charlie echo
February 22, 2012, 08:45 PM
There are far better cases that apply to CCW holders than a group of law enforcement agents attempting to apprehend dangerous and armed fugitives in a vehicle. Citizen uses of a concealed weapon pretty much never go down that way.

If one wants to read actual accounts go here:
http://www.nrapublications.org/index.php/armed-citizen/
Of course, you are correct, in a general sense. That's why I am asking....

Thanks!

Certaindeaf
February 22, 2012, 09:01 PM
nevermind

bob barker
February 22, 2012, 09:16 PM
one of the most interesting stories I have read..

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xdtalk-chatter-box/186358-ibwaldos-one-year-update-survivor-guide-update-op.html

orionengnr
February 22, 2012, 11:03 PM
This question is asked regularly, and the responses nearly always run along the lines of what you are seeing here.

Bottom line--you are very likely fishing in an empty lake.

allaroundhunter
February 22, 2012, 11:09 PM
-if you can't find cover/concealment then close the distance while continuing aimed shots

No civilian is taught to close the distance in an armed encounter. Pistols are close range weapons, and that means that getting out of the range of the threat is your best option (yes, that is assuming that the threat is also wielding a handgun). If the assailant has a knife, again, why would you close the distance?

You are not going to get any answers from people who have had to protect themselves with their handguns, it, like combat, is just not talked about much by those who experience it.

Tim37
February 22, 2012, 11:38 PM
a few weeks back i got home from the night shift and there was a stray dog in the yard he barked and growled at me. i popped on off in the ground in front of him and he ran off. a good swift kick with my steel toes would have probably done the job but i didnt want to get that close.

i hope thats the closest i ever get to having to use my gun.

charlie echo
February 23, 2012, 12:12 AM
No civilian is taught to close the distance in an armed encounter. Pistols are close range weapons, and that means that getting out of the range of the threat is your best option (yes, that is assuming that the threat is also wielding a handgun). If the assailant has a knife, again, why would you close the distance?

You are not going to get any answers from people who have had to protect themselves with their handguns, it, like combat, is just not talked about much by those who experience it.


If can cover or run then, of course, cover or run, but don't turn your back on contact range: circle in, at the first opportunity, not just walk in, at the apex of the knife or bat range.

charlie echo
February 23, 2012, 12:58 AM
Thanks

460Kodiak
February 23, 2012, 01:51 PM
No civilian is taught to close the distance in an armed encounter. Pistols are close range weapons, and that means that getting out of the range of the threat is your best option (yes, that is assuming that the threat is also wielding a handgun). If the assailant has a knife, again, why would you close the distance?


You know I would think that "closingthe distance" between your asailant is probably a really bad idea legally as well. I've always heard that the bottom line is that if you do have to use your ccw to defend yourself, you had better be able to prove in a court of law that it was necessary. If possible, you really should be trying to retreat from danger in as controled and calm a fashion as possible. I realize that is really hard if someone s trying to shoot you, but if someone witnesses you "going after" or advancing on your attacker, it could turn out really bad in court if you actually hit, or hit and kill that individual.

Personally, I'd just try to retreat while trying to end the threat at the same time. Howevr, returning fire would be more of a distraction so I could get out of there.

Do I want to shoot anyone? Hell no. Will I to protect myself or someone I love? Hell yes. Will I advance on an attacker? No..... I don't want to go to prison or live with the knowledge that shooting that person was not the only option. I realize things get fuzzy and crazy in this type of situation, but this is my plan if ever in the situation. Get the hell out of there!

allaroundhunter
February 23, 2012, 02:11 PM
Personally, I'd just try to retreat while trying to end the threat at the same time. Howevr, returning fire would be more of a distraction so I could get out of there.

When I say not to advance on a threat, I don't mean to turn your back to it and run. I mean engage the threat, but if cover is not available, try to get out of range of the threat while still engaging it to keep it at a distance.

The only time that I would close the distance on a threat would be if someone that I was trying to protect from said threat was in immediate danger and closing the distance would be the most effective way of neutralizing the assailant.

CraigC
February 23, 2012, 02:36 PM
Folks sure have some really weird ideas and preconceived notions about how a potential gunfight might play out. You simply cannot account for the unknown, nor can you say "always" or "never". As in, "gunfights always happen at close range" or "never close the distance". The bottom line is that you should be prepared for anything and everything. Period.

The only time I ever came close to drawing my pistol against a would-be attacker, it was a wannabe 1%-er with a scoped rifle. The distance was 20yds and all I had was a little KelTec .32ACP in my pocket. In this case, had he decided to shoot, it would've been a very good idea to close the distance while he tried to find me in his optic. You'll probably find yourself with the devil by the tail and you never know what you'll have to do in order to survive. I survived because I stayed cool and my would-be aggressor was bluffing. Luck only plays into the latter.

allaroundhunter
February 23, 2012, 03:02 PM
In this case, had he decided to shoot, it would've been a very good idea to close the distance while he tried to find me in his optic

When I posted about not closing the distance I did say, "(that is assuming the threat is wielding a handgun)", and you are right, even that is not 100% true depending on the situation. I completely agree with you if the assailant is wielding a long gun with a magnified optic, closer does give you a slight advantage.

My question is, after that encounter, do you still feel like a .32 ACP is enough gun? Not trying to argue your choice, I am just curious as to if that encounter impacted your decision on what you carry.

CraigC
February 23, 2012, 03:39 PM
At the time, it was all I could carry. I was a field tech, carrying against company policy and printing was NEVER an option. At best, I could've upgraded to a .380. I would hope that simply firing a shot in his direction would've been enough to allow me to get somewhere. Whether closer or further, behind cover either way. Fortunately the rifle was his only advantage. If it even was one. He was irate, I was calm. I was ready to fight, he was ready to puff up like a rooster but nothing more. I've been a regular shooter since childhood but he did not seem to be proficient. He had shown his cards but I still had the element of surprise. If it had come to blows, I would surely have rather had a good 5" 1911 under my shirt but sometimes you have to work with what you have.

hogrdr
February 23, 2012, 05:13 PM
we all like to picture those scenerios where you get into a gunfight, lots of times with multiple bad guys, you need the 17 round 9mm with a few spare mags, and maybe a backup gun too. we all do it. fact is i have never known a civilian who ever used his gun in defense and just one cop in our small town.

allaroundhunter
February 23, 2012, 05:46 PM
we all like to picture those scenerios where you get into a gunfight, lots of times with multiple bad guys, you need the 17 round 9mm with a few spare mags, and maybe a backup gun too. we all do it. fact is i have never known a civilian who ever used his gun in defense and just one cop in our small town.

And then there are some that have talked to people who have had to. My mother works in the school district. One of the counselors at a school she works at is a retired LA police officer who had to use her weapon 3 times in the line of duty, each ending in a fatality.



ETA: Obviously, many officers will never even have to fire their weapon in the line of duty. This woman said that even in LA, how many times an officer has to draw or use his/her weapon varies with the beat that you are on. It is the same for us civilians, the chances of us having to defend ourselves go up if in a bad part of town. The best way to stay alive, is to not have to draw your weapon; avoid the known danger zones if at all possible.

hogrdr
February 23, 2012, 05:55 PM
i can see that in la, here in east tn its pretty tame. you probably have more chance at winning the lottery than defending yourself with a gun* unless you are dealing drugs*. then its pretty common in knoxville.

Tim37
February 23, 2012, 07:31 PM
closing the distance is legally not good idea, i know here the law states that unless you are in your home your first required to attempt to retreat. if you where to "close the gap" that could be seen as an offensive move and throw the self defence out the window. it would all depend one how LE saw it. you might turn a clear cut case of self defence in to manslaughter.

460Kodiak
February 24, 2012, 10:58 AM
When I say not to advance on a threat, I don't mean to turn your back to it and run. I mean engage the threat, but if cover is not available, try to get out of range of the threat while still engaging it to keep it at a distance.


I agree. I think we are saying the same thing. Turning your back on someone intent on shooting you, and losing their position is a really bad idea. The retreat must be as controlled and orderly as possible. Again though, I'm sure that is much easier said than done.

The best way to stay alive, is to not have to draw your weapon; avoid the known danger zones if at all possible.

Exactamundo! Never go somewhere you wouldn't go without a gun. That's not to say bad people aren't looking for you though.

fact is i have never known a civilian who ever used his gun in defense and just one cop in our small town.

Don't let that fool you though or make you too comfortable. I live in a similar situation. Small town, nothing happens, but we do have a few cops around. Last fall I woke up to gun fire at 2:00 in the morning. I counted seven shots. I tried to tell myself it was kids with firecrackers or a car craping out, but there is no mistaking that sound.

It turned out that a soldier who just came home found out his girlfriend was cheating on him with one of the local deputies. Then, he cracked. So he started roaming town shooting up the place in a hope to draw out that deputy. He actually crashed his Dodge pickup into the sheriff's office front door and fled on foot. The shots I heard was when the cops had to gun him down at the end of a stand off, FOUR BLOCKS FROM MY HOUSE! The next morning I walked past the police line on my way to work. The fire department was out hosing the blood off the street. It is a really sad story. He shot up the highschool, the senior center, and a couple of cop cars before the cops cornered him. Personally, I can't believe the cops waited that long before opening fire, but I guess he was the son of another deputy, and the cops knew that. I guess in the end, he was out of ammo, but released the slide so the gun still looked loaded, and pointed it at the cops. He basically commited suicide by cop. Really sad.....

The point is that small town or not, crazy and bad things happen.

JohnBiltz
February 24, 2012, 12:02 PM
Assuming you can advance seems to me optimistic. It assumes you have the upper hand and are winning the fight, even then a lucky shot could kill you. I'd feel pretty stupid advancing and having my slide lock back up close and personal when I could have stayed back sought cover and reloaded behind cover. My personal preference would be breaking contact. I'm not an operator clearing a terrorist cell, I just want to survive whatever is happening to me.

JustinJ
February 24, 2012, 05:10 PM
Can somebody point me some incidents of these prolonged gun fights between CCW permit holders and bad guys? In just about every single incident i've read fire is exchanged very quickly as the bad guys are running away if able.

allaroundhunter
February 24, 2012, 05:16 PM
Can somebody point me some incidents of these prolonged gun fights between CCW permit holders and bad guys? In just about every single incident i've read fire is exchanged very quickly as the bad guys are running away if able.

Just because it isn't common doesn't mean it isn't worth considering. How often do CCW permit holders have to use their gun at all? And yet we still talk about situations that involve using a gun in defense here on THR every day.

Certaindeaf
February 24, 2012, 05:21 PM
Can somebody point me some incidents of these prolonged gun fights between CCW permit holders and bad guys? In just about every single incident i've read fire is exchanged very quickly as the bad guys are running away if able.
Strawman.com.. they are all dead.

Casefull
February 24, 2012, 09:50 PM
Just read the self defense stories that are published monthly in nra magazine, national rifleman. Each issue has real life self self defense articles from locals across usa. Many involve women and the elderly shooting attackers in there homes. Also shootouts in stores and various attempted robberies. Obviously being ready(loaded gun accessible) helps a lot. I am always amazed at how few fatalities there are. I like the ones where the young son blasts the bad guy with a 22 rifle. Probably 'cause when I was 11 my dad was in an altercation at our farm in the midwest with a carload of drunk and angry reservation folks who wanted money. Unkown to my father or the 6 guys in the car I had him covered with my gopher rifle. He bluffed them and they left but I remember being resolved to start shooting them if they got him down...he was unarmed and they probably had knives. Dad was a Marine in wwII and did not back down even when he should have. I was very afraid for him. He laughed afterwords and told me that it was nothing.

19-3Ben
February 25, 2012, 03:27 PM
I've never had to draw a firearm. I will tell you the closest I ever came though.

I was in law school, and of course, had the usual nutty schedule that comes along with that. I had just finished a paper, and needed to go get some groceries at about 1:30AM. It's a big supermarket in a quiet suburban neighborhood with a huge wide open parking lot in front. I bought my groceries at the supermarket and walked out to the car. As I was loading them into the trunk, I got a funny tingly feeling on the back of my neck. Very suddenly my gut/sixth sense told me to turn around RFN. I dropped my bag of groceries in the trunk of the car and spun around. A guy was walking across the empty parking lot in my direction, out of the darkness. He was probably 25 yards away. I stopped and just looked at him. I was sizing him up and watching his face. He was wearing black jeans and a black hoodie sweatshirt. He was walking directly at me. I kept staring him in the eye to let him know he'd been spotted. After probably a second (but it felt like forever), when he was about 20 yards away from me, he veered off at about a 45 degree angle and walked past the supermarket into the shadow behind the building.

I surveyed the surroundings, loaded the last bag into the trunk and bugged out ASAP.

My lessons learned:
1) It was very reassuring to have my Sig on me at the time.
2) Don't go to the supermarket at 1:30am when it's avoidable.
3) I was darn lucky that I wasn't jumped by an accomplice off to the side or behind me because my attention was focused directly on that one guy.
4) Listen to your gut. Had I ignored my gut, I might have been jumped.
5) I am glad I didn't have to shoot anyone.

I also realize that the guy I saw may not have even been a threat. Everything about the situation felt like a threat, but I still don't know for sure. At that point, I would not have been justified in pulling a gun. I am very glad that it's the closest I've ever come though.

Dr_B
February 25, 2012, 03:55 PM
I don't personally know any civilians who have had to defend themselves with a gun. My father was in law enforcement for 27 years and never had to fire on anyone; draw yes, fire no. I live in a small town and I know one officer who had to shoot someone and another who was shot at.

I don't believe in carrying lots of ammo. 15 rounds per magazine is comforting, but I figure that if I've used all of that and need a reload, then I should be thinking about getting away rather than shooting more. Also, that sort of situation sounds like a firefight rather than a typical personal self-defense situation.

dprice3844444
February 25, 2012, 04:24 PM
well my closest experience getting shot at was 3 feet away in a 3 ft hallway and she missed(i'm an ex-cop) with my own gun.that is why she is my ex.i was not going to give her chance to improve her aim.

charlie echo
February 25, 2012, 04:52 PM
You know I would think that "closingthe distance" between your asailant is probably a really bad idea legally as well. I've always heard that the bottom line is that if you do have to use your ccw to defend yourself, you had better be able to prove in a court of law that it was necessary. If possible, you really should be trying to retreat from danger in as controled and calm a fashion as possible. I realize that is really hard if someone s trying to shoot you, but if someone witnesses you "going after" or advancing on your attacker, it could turn out really bad in court if you actually hit, or hit and kill that individual.

Personally, I'd just try to retreat while trying to end the threat at the same time. Howevr, returning fire would be more of a distraction so I could get out of there.

Do I want to shoot anyone? Hell no. Will I to protect myself or someone I love? Hell yes. Will I advance on an attacker? No..... I don't want to go to prison or live with the knowledge that shooting that person was not the only option. I realize things get fuzzy and crazy in this type of situation, but this is my plan if ever in the situation. Get the hell out of there!
Thank you. That "gut" feeling ought to be trusted, nearly always.

charlie echo
February 25, 2012, 04:54 PM
well my closest experience getting shot at was 3 feet away in a 3 ft hallway and she missed(i'm an ex-cop) with my own gun.that is why she is my ex.i was not going to give her chance to improve her aim.
"ouch" on that sense of betrayal.

Thanks.

charlie echo
February 25, 2012, 04:55 PM
I don't personally know any civilians who have had to defend themselves with a gun. My father was in law enforcement for 27 years and never had to fire on anyone; draw yes, fire no. I live in a small town and I know one officer who had to shoot someone and another who was shot at.

I don't believe in carrying lots of ammo. 15 rounds per magazine is comforting, but I figure that if I've used all of that and need a reload, then I should be thinking about getting away rather than shooting more. Also, that sort of situation sounds like a firefight rather than a typical personal self-defense situation.
Yes. I feel fine with 5- or 6- in the "wheel" - nevertheless, when I can I prefer to have two speed loaders handy, one clearly marked for max penetration, for the given shells.

cor_man257
February 25, 2012, 06:14 PM
Somewhere there is a story about a lawyer who got into a shootout with a thug who had moved him and a few co workers to a 2nd crime scene...

I cant remember what forum it was on, but he was telling about it from his perspective. I read it a few months ago and cant seem to find it since then. I remember he used a 1911and his attacker used a revolver. He got shot several times, in the hand and arm. I wish I could find the link... maybe someone here knows the story.

I've pointed a loaded weapon at ALOT of people. But I dont think any of those scenerios could help a civilian CCW holder.

cor_man257
February 25, 2012, 07:33 PM
Found the link.

Excellent first hand account. Things went wrong, and things went right. Heres the link

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/988015_My_CCW_Shooting_Encounter_AAR__Sentence_update_on_page_22_Whoooo_Hoooo.html

beatledog7
February 25, 2012, 08:21 PM
Every potential shooting situation is best survived through avoidance.

pbearperry
February 25, 2012, 08:35 PM
Years ago while taking my walk at night,a carload of idiots yelled something and I didn't respond.The next thing I see is the car stopping and coming towards me in reverse gear.The driver then says"Hey old Man I am talking to you."Again I said nothing.Now they all bail out of the car with baseball bats in their hands walking fast towards me.Luckily,I had my Browning Hi Power in a shoulder holster so I grabbed it and asked how many of you *********s want to die?At this point,they jumped into the car and took off with their headlights off.
This is why I carry every time I leave the house.You never know when it will happen to you.What really ticked me off was that at the time I was 30 years old and they called me old man.lol

Dr_B
February 28, 2012, 03:47 PM
You never know when it will happen to you.

That right. Anti-gun folks tell people who carry that they are paranoid. Heck, sometimes I think I might be a little paranoid. But even in a small town like mine where we roll up the sidewalks at night, you never know who is driving around out there. You never know what is on their mind. And if, just if, someone decides to do something unfriendly, I think its better to have an option for defense if things get really bad.

There is a lot to be said in favor of avoiding confrontation. But what are you supposed to do when you're just out walking your dog and minding your own business, and someone approaches you?

By the way, I opened my door one evening last week to let my dog out and there was a moose on my lawn. You never know what's out there...

ORHunter79
February 29, 2012, 02:35 AM
Can somebody point me some incidents of these prolonged gun fights between CCW permit holders and bad guys? In just about every single incident i've read fire is exchanged very quickly as the bad guys are running away if able.
Exactly!!! Bad guys want "soft" targets. Closing distance forces them on the defensive vs on the attack. Also, closing distance changes YOUR mindset from victim to mission accomplishment i.e. neutralizing the enemy, thus focusing your mind on accurate shot placement vs spray and pray and hoping to survive.

Feel free to disagree.....I don't really care.

Mindset is 90% of any battle, the rest is muscle memory.

P.S. Don't forget to PRACTICE advancing toward your target.

FIVETWOSEVEN
February 29, 2012, 02:56 AM
Can somebody point me some incidents of these prolonged gun fights between CCW permit holders and bad guys? In just about every single incident i've read fire is exchanged very quickly as the bad guys are running away if able.

I've can't recall any stories about any civilian needing a reload despite the fact that they emptied their firearm but I still carry a spare magazine. Be prepared!

GCMkc
February 29, 2012, 12:46 PM
There is a Chicago Police officer (can't remember the name) who has been in like 15-20 shootouts in his time as an officer. I used to have the podcast somewhere. Anyway, he tells what guns, ammo, techniques, drills, and stories of the shootouts. Pretty crazy stuff. I wish I knew the guys name. If anyone can recall the name, please post!

*FOUND IT. Lt. Bob Stasch Chicago PD.
link for the podcast: http://content.blubrry.com/proarms/052.mp3

charlie echo
February 29, 2012, 01:00 PM
There is a Chicago Police officer (can't remember the name) who has been in like 15-20 shootouts in his time as an officer. I used to have the podcast somewhere. Anyway, he tells what guns, ammo, techniques, drills, and stories of the shootouts. Pretty crazy stuff. I wish I knew the guys name. If anyone can recall the name, please post!

*FOUND IT. Lt. Bob Stasch Chicago PD.
link for the podcast: http://content.blubrry.com/proarms/052.mp3
Thank you!

PcolaDawg
February 29, 2012, 02:30 PM
OK, we know that folks with unlucky or unskillful CCW contacts might have already passed on from our world, but from any of you actually survived such an encounter, or know of such event(s), please share your experience(s)? Or point to where I may have missed such real world insights in my Searches in THR...
I've got one, kind of. I actually had to draw my weapon, shoot it, and kill a threat. But it was a pack of wild dogs. Still, I was very very grateful that I was armed.

I live on four acres next to a swamp in the panhandle of Florida. My wife called me after lunch and let me know that, while she was taking our pet Greyhound for a walk, she was menaced by a pack of four wild dogs that chased her into the house and she was afraid to leave.

I got home somewhat late that night around 7:30 and it was dusk. I figured the dogs would have left by then so I got out of the car and walked to the backyard without stopping into the house to get my shotgun.

Anyway, as I was heading back around the old horse barn we have, I noticed four dogs lying down behind it. I whistled them up, hoping they would see me and hightail it. Instead, one of the dogs (the Alpha dog I guess) advanced toward me growling and barking with the other three following it. It was a long way back to the house, but fortunately I had a Smith & Wesson 642 J Frame revolver in my pocket. It was getting somewhat dark, and I was extremely glad I had the Crimson Trace grip on it. It gave me a lot more confidence that I could hit what I was aiming at even though it was a longer shot then I would've liked to take with a snub nose revolver.

Anyway, I put the laser on the chest of the lead dog, and pulled the trigger. Killed the alpha dog immediately and the other three disappeared so fast it was like they were teleported. I don't even remember seeing or hearing them leave. They just vanished. And they never came back.

That's my only CCW story, thankfully.

charlie echo
February 29, 2012, 02:35 PM
I've got one, kind of. I actually had to draw my weapon, shoot it, and kill a threat. But it was a pack of wild dogs. Still, I was very very grateful that I was armed.

I live on four acres next to a swamp in the panhandle of Florida. My wife called me after lunch and let me know that, while she was taking our pet Greyhound for a walk, she was menaced by a pack of four wild dogs that chased her into the house and she was afraid to leave.

I got home somewhat late that night around 7:30 and it was dusk. I figured the dogs would have left by then so I got out of the car and walked to the backyard without stopping into the house to get my shotgun.

Anyway, as I was heading back around the old horse barn we have, I noticed four dogs lying down behind it. I whistled them up, hoping they would see me and hightail it. Instead, one of the dogs (the Alpha dog I guess) advanced toward me growling and barking with the other three following it. It was a long way back to the house, but fortunately I had a Smith & Wesson 642 J Frame revolver in my pocket. It was getting somewhat dark, and I was extremely glad I had the Crimson Trace grip on it. It gave me a lot more confidence that I could hit what I was aiming at even though it was a longer shot then I would've liked to take with a snub nose revolver.

Anyway, I put the laser on the chest of the lead dog, and pulled the trigger. Killed the alpha dog immediately and the other three disappeared so fast it was like they were teleported. I don't even remember seeing or hearing them leave. They just vanished. And they never came back.

That's my only CCW story, thankfully.
Outstanding and thanks!

Will buy and install that Crimson aiming device you mentioned.

What bullet load were you using, please?

BullfrogKen
February 29, 2012, 02:43 PM
Give Tom Givens in Memphis a call and order his latest DVD, "Lessons from the Street".

Phone: (901) 370-5600


Discussion of the DVD here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7177691#post7177691

PcolaDawg
February 29, 2012, 04:19 PM
Outstanding and thanks!

Will buy and install that Crimson aiming device you mentioned.

What bullet load were you using, please?
I was using Remington Golden Saber HPJ Plus P rounds. They really pack a punch for a .38.

I bought the gun with the CT Grips already installed. Did the same thing with my Kimber .45. I also have the Smith & Wesson Bodyguard .380 that comes with a laser as part of the actual body of the gun.

So, yeah, I've become a big fan of aiming with a laser. Especially with a smaller gun when you absolutely cannot afford to miss.

Hk Dan
February 29, 2012, 04:44 PM
I've survived 2 encounters. I will not go into detail--I've seen the asshats on this forum, you see. I have no need to have my successful self defense disected by some 45 year old sitting in hos underwear in his mother's basement, thank you.

Suffice it to say that in one encounter I did close the distance on the guy, went to combatives, and as a result we're both alive and he's in jail. It does work in some circumstances.

Autolycus
March 1, 2012, 06:14 AM
I had to draw down on a junkie that broke into my house in the middle of the night. HE left and the police arrested him shortly afterwards. No shooting or violence happened, thank God.

As others have stated, I doubt you will get many responses as it is a very personal subject. And people might also be unwilling to share for legal reasons.

charlie echo
March 1, 2012, 10:26 PM
I've survived 2 encounters. I will not go into detail--I've seen the asshats on this forum, you see. I have no need to have my successful self defense disected by some 45 year old sitting in hos underwear in his mother's basement, thank you.

Suffice it to say that in one encounter I did close the distance on the guy, went to combatives, and as a result we're both alive and he's in jail. It does work in some circumstances.
T'anks. being prepared helps to have the courage to do the right thing, to not fight if it's right or press on when you must.

charlie echo
March 1, 2012, 10:32 PM
I had to draw down on a junkie that broke into my house in the middle of the night. HE left and the police arrested him shortly afterwards. No shooting or violence happened, thank God.

As others have stated, I doubt you will get many responses as it is a very personal subject. And people might also be unwilling to share for legal reasons.
True that. Be careful. Everything they find they will use it against you: both the felons and, more often than should, the prosecutors who that act as if they are above the law...

cor_man257
March 1, 2012, 11:01 PM
I cant think of a few stories that actually envovled multiple shooters exchanging shots and "reloads" so to speak. Actually instead of reloading they grabbed another weapon...

I cant think of his name, but there was a man who ran a rolex store that was robbed 4 times I think? He killed something like 8 men and was shot 4 times... Something like that. I'll look up the story and post a link.

EDIT: Lance Thomas. And I got the numbers wrong. 4 hold ups, 11 suspects, 6 shot, 5 killed. He was shot in two of the shootings. He has been shot a total of 5 times. Link:http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_156_26/ai_82533205/

Another story involved several defensive shooters against 2 armed determined attackers in a shop. Neither shooter lived. Multiple Rossi .38s and acouple shotguns I believe. Have to look that one up to.

EDIT: Found this one too. Link: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_163_27/ai_99130342/

trex1310
March 2, 2012, 12:36 AM
I have been in two separate shooting incidents. They both were
armed robbery attempts. I don't wish to go into any detail here
because I don't want to be analyzed by the plethora of Monday
Morning Quarterbacks on this forum, especially those that have
never faced an armed thug that is intent on killing you. If you
want the skinny PM me and I'll try to get back with the details.

hboy35
March 2, 2012, 12:58 PM
I was heading home from work, stopped at a traffic light. Truck pulls up in the lane beside me and stopped just ahead of me. Car load of punks behind it are honking and yelling at the truck. Driver of the truck is very agitated and opens his door and gets out to face the car (now beside me on my right). Punks in the car can't see it, but the truck driver is a lefty and in his left hand is holding a large revolver. He starts yelling back at the punks, asking them if they want some.

At this point, I just don't want to be shot if these two groups start shooting at each other since I am so close. I see an opening in the lane to my left. My truck is a standard trans so I gas the engine to start off. Mr. Lefty hears it and is startled (and highly agitated by now) and turns to face me as I try to move to my left. I raise both hands off the steering wheel towards him trying to idicate that I am a friendly. Will never forget that look he gave me before he turned his attention back to the car behind him.

The whole thing that took you minutes to read--took only seconds to play out. In a flash I wondered if I would get home that day. Tactics, caliber, ammo capacity, etc the list goes on---better not ever fail to consider the grace of God.

charlie echo
March 15, 2012, 10:34 PM
I cant think of a few stories that actually envovled multiple shooters exchanging shots and "reloads" so to speak. Actually instead of reloading they grabbed another weapon...

I cant think of his name, but there was a man who ran a rolex store that was robbed 4 times I think? He killed something like 8 men and was shot 4 times... Something like that. I'll look up the story and post a link.

EDIT: Lance Thomas. And I got the numbers wrong. 4 hold ups, 11 suspects, 6 shot, 5 killed. He was shot in two of the shootings. He has been shot a total of 5 times. Link:http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_156_26/ai_82533205/

Another story involved several defensive shooters against 2 armed determined attackers in a shop. Neither shooter lived. Multiple Rossi .38s and acouple shotguns I believe. Have to look that one up to.

EDIT: Found this one too. Link: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_163_27/ai_99130342/
thank you for the links.

charlie echo
March 15, 2012, 10:39 PM
I was heading home from work, stopped at a traffic light. Truck pulls up in the lane beside me and stopped just ahead of me. Car load of punks behind it are honking and yelling at the truck. Driver of the truck is very agitated and opens his door and gets out to face the car (now beside me on my right). Punks in the car can't see it, but the truck driver is a lefty and in his left hand is holding a large revolver. He starts yelling back at the punks, asking them if they want some.

At this point, I just don't want to be shot if these two groups start shooting at each other since I am so close. I see an opening in the lane to my left. My truck is a standard trans so I gas the engine to start off. Mr. Lefty hears it and is startled (and highly agitated by now) and turns to face me as I try to move to my left. I raise both hands off the steering wheel towards him trying to idicate that I am a friendly. Will never forget that look he gave me before he turned his attention back to the car behind him.

The whole thing that took you minutes to read--took only seconds to play out. In a flash I wondered if I would get home that day. Tactics, caliber, ammo capacity, etc the list goes on---better not ever fail to consider the grace of God.

Whew! close call.

Off topic, I know, but I had one driver stalk me at 3AM on morning East bound on 80W, west of Davis, CA, on a week night. No one else on the highway. I timed the exit by speeding to pass him, so he'll pass me, again, as was his pattern, then i hit the brakes, swerved two lanes behind him, still at high speed, and skidded off the exit as that jerk past by.

Was nothing, but i remember I wished I had a CCW Permit, gun-training, and something to shoot back if it got to that...just had a haunch that driver was armed.

JustinJ
March 16, 2012, 04:47 PM
Was nothing, but i remember I wished I had a CCW Permit, gun-training, and something to shoot back if it got to that...just had a haunch that driver was armed.

Maybe add a cell phone to the list?

charlie echo
March 16, 2012, 08:03 PM
Maybe add a cell phone to the list?
We had cell phones in '89?

19-3Ben
March 16, 2012, 10:44 PM
We had cell phones in '89?

LOL. Yeah, but i think they were the size of a car battery!

Rexster
March 17, 2012, 07:45 PM
No civilian is taught to close the distance in an armed encounter. Pistols are close range weapons, and that means that getting out of the range of the threat is your best option (yes, that is assuming that the threat is also wielding a handgun). If the assailant has a knife, again, why would you close the distance?

You are not going to get any answers from people who have had to protect themselves with their handguns, it, like combat, is just not talked about much by those who experience it.
If your family member is across a park from you, and is suddenly attacked, you WILL close the distance!

Loosedhorse
March 17, 2012, 08:12 PM
I'm reminded of Rory Miller in Meditations on Violence describing the knife attacks he's survived. For each one, he wonders does it really count as a successful knife defense; for example, "Does it really count if it was only a lighter, not a knife, he was reaching for?"

I've been approached "a time or two," while armed, by an angry man in circumstances that put me in full Code Orange; in one case the person actually told me he was going back inside his car (right next to us) to get a weapon. In each case, I spoke to the person calmly and respectfully...

And exited. Do those really count?

Rexster
March 17, 2012, 08:14 PM
OK, we know that folks with unlucky or unskillful CCW contacts might have already passed on from our world, but from any of you actually survived such an encounter, or know of such event(s), please share your experience(s)? Or point to where I may have missed such real world insights in my Searches in THR...
I hurt somebody's feelings, once.
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OK, I have probably circumvented attacks. Being alert, and strongly hinting that I was armed and ready to act, has caused several predators to look away, and look elsewhere.
No, I was not bluffing, nor did I need to actually draw from concealment. The right body language is worth a thousand spoken words.

I did surprise a poacher, one time, as much as he surprised me when he fired at a bird a few yards away; his shot going across my path. He disappeared into undergrowth, and I drew my 1911 and moved back toward the road. I kept the pistol in low ready until I was sure he was too far away to be a danger. This is the only time I can recall drawing against A human threat, outside of my line-of-duty encounters. Yes, I did contact local LE.

I have posted the story of my on-duty shooting incident, but it did not involve concealed carry.

ORHunter79
March 18, 2012, 12:14 PM
Ok. A very very close friend, we'll call him Bob, told me of his encounter. It went like this.

As he was leaving work and was about to get into his truck, a Honda civic pull up on the other side of the truck. The civic was full, with 4 passengers in it. As he watched the left rear door flew open. A "gangsta" stepped out and pointed a sawed off ruger 10/22 at him. As the gangsta walked around the back of the truck he demanded his wallet. Bob gave him his wallet. As the gangsta walked back toward the civic around the back of the truck again, the driver told him to "waste the fool". Bob had all intentions to let him go, but when he heard the order, he drew his 1911 and pointed it at the gangsta's head. As the gangsta was raising his 10/22 toward Bob, bob tried to pull the trigger. Nothing. In what seemed like an eternity Bob realized he left his safety on. Right before the gangsta's weapon made it to Bob's direction, bob flicked off the safety and fired. The first shot hit the gangsta in the head. It took off the back 1/3 of the skull as it exited. Bob kept firing as the gangsta fell into the back of the civic. His shots followed the gangsta as he fell and he shot through the bed of his truck, some made it through, some didn't. Bob tried to reload, but the civic raced off. Later Bob found out the gangsta lived. He identified the attacker and now the gangsta is serving time. No sign of his "friends". No charges were pressed against Bob.

Lessons learned. Bob now carries a Glock without external safeties and higher ammo capacity.

sarge83
March 18, 2012, 08:01 PM
attepted atm robbery. I had to pull my weapon but thankfully the brandishing stopped the threat. I had done dropped the safety off and was about to engage the hobgoblin.

Jim NE
March 19, 2012, 03:22 PM
Later Bob found out the gangsta lived.

Amazing. I guess traumatic head wounds are life threatening only to those with brains.

allaroundhunter
March 19, 2012, 06:46 PM
The first shot hit the gangsta in the head. It took off the back 1/3 of the skull as it exited. Later Bob found out the gangsta lived.

Has anyone seen what a .45 ACP round will do to a watermelon at 3 yards.......how did this guy survive exactly??

Black Butte
March 19, 2012, 07:16 PM
An acquaintance of a sister of my second cousin's friend knows this guy who awoke to find some burglars rooting through tools in his garage. He called 9-1-1 and reported two men committing a burglary in progress. The dispatcher indicated that no patrol car was in the immediate vicinity, but that the police would arrive in approximately 15 minutes. After hanging up, the man called the dispatcher back to tell her that there was no rush because he had just shot the two men dead. Within 60 seconds, multiple squad cars arrive on the scene and the police apprehend two never-been-shot and still-living burglars. One of the annoyed police officers shouts to the man in an angry voice: "I thought you said you shot these two men," to which the man replies: "I thought you said it would take you 15 minutes to get here." :)

allaroundhunter
March 19, 2012, 07:19 PM
An acquaintance of a sister of my second cousin's friend knows this guy who awoke to find some burglars rooting through tools in his garage. He called 9-1-1 and reported two men committing a burglary in progress. The dispatcher indicated that no patrol car was in the immediate vicinity, but that the police would arrive in approximately 15 minutes. After hanging up, the man called the dispatcher back to tell her that there was no rush because he had just shot the two men dead. Within 60 seconds, multiple squad cars arrive on the scene and the police apprehend two never-been-shot and still-living burglars. One of the annoyed police officers shouts to the man in an angry voice: "I thought you said you shot these two men," to which the man replies: "I thought you said it would take you 15 minutes to get here."

Oh how I love sarcasm ;)

charlie echo
March 19, 2012, 07:25 PM
I'm reminded of Rory Miller in Meditations on Violence describing the knife attacks he's survived. For each one, he wonders does it really count as a successful knife defense; for example, "Does it really count if it was only a lighter, not a knife, he was reaching for?"

I've been approached "a time or two," while armed, by an angry man in circumstances that put me in full Code Orange; in one case the person actually told me he was going back inside his car (right next to us) to get a weapon. In each case, I spoke to the person calmly and respectfully...

And exited. Do those really count?
Yes, counts. Thanks.

charlie echo
March 19, 2012, 07:26 PM
An acquaintance of a sister of my second cousin's friend knows this guy who awoke to find some burglars rooting through tools in his garage. He called 9-1-1 and reported two men committing a burglary in progress. The dispatcher indicated that no patrol car was in the immediate vicinity, but that the police would arrive in approximately 15 minutes. After hanging up, the man called the dispatcher back to tell her that there was no rush because he had just shot the two men dead. Within 60 seconds, multiple squad cars arrive on the scene and the police apprehend two never-been-shot and still-living burglars. One of the annoyed police officers shouts to the man in an angry voice: "I thought you said you shot these two men," to which the man replies: "I thought you said it would take you 15 minutes to get here." :)
Hah hahh, that's really thinking. Thanks.

charlie echo
March 19, 2012, 07:27 PM
attepted atm robbery. I had to pull my weapon but thankfully the brandishing stopped the threat. I had done dropped the safety off and was about to engage the hobgoblin.
Thanks.

charlie echo
March 19, 2012, 07:29 PM
Ok. A very very close friend, we'll call him Bob, told me of his encounter. It went like this.

As he was leaving work and was about to get into his truck, a Honda civic pull up on the other side of the truck. The civic was full, with 4 passengers in it. As he watched the left rear door flew open. A "gangsta" stepped out and pointed a sawed off ruger 10/22 at him. As the gangsta walked around the back of the truck he demanded his wallet. Bob gave him his wallet. As the gangsta walked back toward the civic around the back of the truck again, the driver told him to "waste the fool". Bob had all intentions to let him go, but when he heard the order, he drew his 1911 and pointed it at the gangsta's head. As the gangsta was raising his 10/22 toward Bob, bob tried to pull the trigger. Nothing. In what seemed like an eternity Bob realized he left his safety on. Right before the gangsta's weapon made it to Bob's direction, bob flicked off the safety and fired. The first shot hit the gangsta in the head. It took off the back 1/3 of the skull as it exited. Bob kept firing as the gangsta fell into the back of the civic. His shots followed the gangsta as he fell and he shot through the bed of his truck, some made it through, some didn't. Bob tried to reload, but the civic raced off. Later Bob found out the gangsta lived. He identified the attacker and now the gangsta is serving time. No sign of his "friends". No charges were pressed against Bob.

Lessons learned. Bob now carries a Glock without external safeties and higher ammo capacity.
My cop buddy swears by his Glock 21. thanks.

ORHunter79
March 19, 2012, 11:34 PM
Has anyone seen what a .45 ACP round will do to a watermelon at 3 yards.......how did this guy survive exactly??

Valid question, I asked him the same thing. Turns out he was using FMJ rounds. Ironically, one of his tenants (he owns a group of rentals) was the ER nurse who treated the "gangsta". After all came full circle, his tenant told him they would've let him die on the table if they would've known, but after he was dropped off at the hospital the cops told him the "gangsta" was a drive-by victim. After all was said and done, he had to identify the "gangsta". This was a task in itself, since they couldn't put a hat on him that would stay, since the back of his skull was gone, so a line up was out of the question. He ended up identifying him from old pictures that were taken years before. He still believes in the .45, but now owns a Glock 21 and uses quality hollow-points. I asked him why not FMJ since some didn't penetrate the bed of his truck and his answer was simple, use quality hollow-points and they should, if they hit a barrier, penetrate. To this day, I use Winchester PDX1's, since they are designed not to expand if a barrier is hit.

This is not a story of uncle's wife's cousin who know a guy......this happened. You can believe it or not, I don't really care. OP asked for a actual CCW contact survival experience and that's what I a gave. "Bob" is a family friend (more than that his a fellow Marine) and I will not betray his trust by giving names or locations.

I choose to learn from other peoples "mistakes" or lessons learned. Take it or leave it, your choice. I learned and attempted to share the lesson.

Side note: a human skull is nothing like a watermelon!!! That looks good on TV, that's about it. I can smash a watermelon with my bare hands easily, try that with a human skull using the same force. We humans are are lot more resilient that watermelons.

allaroundhunter
March 19, 2012, 11:47 PM
I completely believe you ORHunter. My grandfather was a coroner and a doctor in a small town in the 50's and a man tried to kill himself by shooting himself in the chest with a 12 ga shotgun. My grandfather was somehow able to save him...the human body is very weird in what it can withstand sometimes.

charlie echo
March 20, 2012, 12:36 AM
Valid question, I asked him the same thing. Turns out he was using FMJ rounds. Ironically, one of his tenants (he owns a group of rentals) was the ER nurse who treated the "gangsta". After all came full circle, his tenant told him they would've let him die on the table if they would've known, but after he was dropped off at the hospital the cops told him the "gangsta" was a drive-by victim. After all was said and done, he had to identify the "gangsta". This was a task in itself, since they couldn't put a hat on him that would stay, since the back of his skull was gone, so a line up was out of the question. He ended up identifying him from old pictures that were taken years before. He still believes in the .45, but now owns a Glock 21 and uses quality hollow-points. I asked him why not FMJ since some didn't penetrate the bed of his truck and his answer was simple, use quality hollow-points and they should, if they hit a barrier, penetrate. To this day, I use Winchester PDX1's, since they are designed not to expand if a barrier is hit.

This is not a story of uncle's wife's cousin who know a guy......this happened. You can believe it or not, I don't really care. OP asked for a actual CCW contact survival experience and that's what I a gave. "Bob" is a family friend (more than that his a fellow Marine) and I will not betray his trust by giving names or locations.

I choose to learn from other peoples "mistakes" or lessons learned. Take it or leave it, your choice. I learned and attempted to share the lesson.

Side note: a human skull is nothing like a watermelon!!! That looks good on TV, that's about it. I can smash a watermelon with my bare hands easily, try that with a human skull using the same force. We humans are are lot more resilient that watermelons.
Good notes, Thanks, again.

Whacked
March 20, 2012, 01:34 AM
this is a wild read

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=46699

see post #24 and 26

charlie echo
March 20, 2012, 02:04 AM
this is a wild read

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=46699

see post #24 and 26
That is wild! Thanks.

Loosedhorse
March 20, 2012, 12:24 PM
After all came full circle, his tenant told him they would've let him die on the table if they would've knownMedical ethics at its finest. :rolleyes: I guess we all better start hoping that our surgeons like us. :banghead:

Lawdawg45
March 20, 2012, 04:12 PM
Mine actually happened many years ago before I became a police officer. I was coming out of one of our local hospitals after an evening EMT class, and I had parked in a ground lot across the street. As I approached my car I noticed a man sitting in an expensive sports car next to me, but I didn't give it much thought. As I unlocked my door this man exited his vehicle and put a knife to my throat and told me to be quiet. He took one hand away to go for my wallet and I elbowed him in the face while quickly drawing my S&W model 39, which was in a shoulder holster. I told him to "kiss his a** goodbye" and prepared to fire, but he ran like the ghetto coward he was, and I neither felt like chasing him nor shooting him in the back. They later learned he had broken into the sports car and other vehicles that night, and he was caught about 2 weeks later trying to do the same thing.;)

LD

JPG19
March 20, 2012, 04:30 PM
Valid question, I asked him the same thing. Turns out he was using FMJ rounds. Ironically, one of his tenants (he owns a group of rentals) was the ER nurse who treated the "gangsta". After all came full circle, his tenant told him they would've let him die on the table if they would've known, but after he was dropped off at the hospital the cops told him the "gangsta" was a drive-by victim. After all was said and done, he had to identify the "gangsta". This was a task in itself, since they couldn't put a hat on him that would stay, since the back of his skull was gone, so a line up was out of the question. He ended up identifying him from old pictures that were taken years before. He still believes in the .45, but now owns a Glock 21 and uses quality hollow-points. I asked him why not FMJ since some didn't penetrate the bed of his truck and his answer was simple, use quality hollow-points and they should, if they hit a barrier, penetrate. To this day, I use Winchester PDX1's, since they are designed not to expand if a barrier is hit.

This is not a story of uncle's wife's cousin who know a guy......this happened. You can believe it or not, I don't really care. OP asked for a actual CCW contact survival experience and that's what I a gave. "Bob" is a family friend (more than that his a fellow Marine) and I will not betray his trust by giving names or locations.

I choose to learn from other peoples "mistakes" or lessons learned. Take it or leave it, your choice. I learned and attempted to share the lesson.

Side note: a human skull is nothing like a watermelon!!! That looks good on TV, that's about it. I can smash a watermelon with my bare hands easily, try that with a human skull using the same force. We humans are are lot more resilient that watermelons.
As an Emergency Room technician for 7 years and a medical student, I find the idea that the nurse would have let the "gentlemen" die, had she known what he had done, to be completely and utterly unbelievable. I have worked with hundreds of various medical professionals in efforts to bring many-a-dead-guy back to life and never, not once, have we stopped to discuss the virtues or ethics of the helping the patient.

That being said, I'm glad your friend is okay it sounds like he performed flawlessly. Thanks for sharing.

ORHunter79
March 20, 2012, 11:57 PM
As an Emergency Room technician for 7 years and a medical student, I find the idea that the nurse would have let the "gentlemen" die, had she known what he had done, to be completely and utterly unbelievable. I have worked with hundreds of various medical professionals in efforts to bring many-a-dead-guy back to life and never, not once, have we stopped to discuss the virtues or ethics of the helping the patient.

That being said, I'm glad your friend is okay it sounds like he performed flawlessly. Thanks for sharing.

Yes, I agree, it does seem unbelievable, however, he's not the kind of guy to spice things up, so I have no reason to doubt him. Where this happened, a not-so-nice neighborhood, would probably shed some light. Either-way, I agree, ER techs do have a job to do no matter what. Maybe the ER tech was trying to comfort him, I don't know. In the end, they guy is serving time since he lived, so that's justice in my book, especially since part of his head missing.

NOLAEMT
March 21, 2012, 01:45 AM
The ER tech was just trying to make them feel better, or was otherwise being less than truthful.

Failing to render aid to someone because of their prior (no matter how recent) misdeeds is not something that is discussed, at all, in the medical community. If Osama bin Laden had shown up in any ER in the country, he would have been treated with the same vigor as any other person with his same condition.

So you can be assured that it doesn't matter what the story that accompanies you to the ER is after a self defense shooting, whether the staff thinks you are the "bad guy" or not, you will receive the best possible care.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I have literally never heard this from anyone of any standing in the medical field. I have treated rapists, drug dealers, gang-bangers, you name it, and while some of these people disgusted me, I still did everything in my power to give them the best care possible, as does everyone I know.

I would hate for someone to be afraid to seek medical attention (be them good or bad guys) because they were afraid of receiving sub-standard care.

JPG19
March 21, 2012, 02:05 AM
ORHunter79 & NOLAEMT - I read your comments as supportive of my post and, in an effort to clear up confusion, feel it is important to clarify that the post I responded to referenced a nurse, while I am the tech. I'm honestly not trying to nitpick, we just live in a hyper-clarified world. Do I read your posts correctly?

NOLAEMT
March 21, 2012, 02:24 AM
Yes. I agree, and I apologize for any confusion, I was referring to the story, and not to you. (it is late here, and I've been up for a while)

I have never heard someone discuss letting someone die or treating them any worse because of a criminal history or accusations, even up to the point that patients who have injured staff are still treated to the full ability of the staff and facility.

Sure these people aren't getting a hug from anyone if they pull through, but never are they "being left to die on the table" or any such nonsense.

ORHunter79
March 21, 2012, 08:38 PM
I think I might have caused the thread to digress a little from the OP main topic. OP, I apologize.

I told you a true account of an incident. Take it or leave it. The main point wasn't what the ER tech or nurse said, but what my friend did to survive.

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