[Hopkins]

I have read in the past in this forum proponents of using a feeler gauge to adjust a full length resizing die to avoid excessive resizing. I have tried to puzzle out a method to accomplish this and have failed. Is this possible with a press that cams over? If so, I would appreciate some instruction on the method to achieve this. I have been using a Stoney Ridge/Hornady headspace gauge to measure my incremental adjustment results

[PlusP]

what caliber ? rifle or pistol ?
bottle neck cases use your case gage and sneak up on it, when you have it use your feeler gage note gap and use it the next time you set up

[Hopkins]

Bottle neck rifle cartridges. The play in the cam over in my RCBS rock crusher makes the gauge range by .008 or more.

[dmazur]

You can use a feeler gauge to move the die in known increments from some starting point, by putting the feeler gauge between the shell holder and the die.

This is essentially the same thing as trying to count fractions of a turn, at 0.018" per 1/4 turn, but more repeatable.

You still need to use something to measure the resizing, even something as simple as the rifle's chamber.

(Many say the rifle's chamber is the best gauge, provided you're not trying to reload for multiple rifles...)

[NeuseRvrRat]

guffey will love this

[rsrocket1]

I think it would be really tough to stop a die from sizing at an exact distance on a press that cams over. If you put shims on the shellholder to prevent the press from camming over, you might be able to stop the press ram from going any further up. Or you might be able to do something with another part of the press such as the handle or its linkage to stop it from going all the way up.

Otherwise it's a bunch of trial and error.

[kingmt]

Others are going to differ from what I tell you.

The only way to get the same thing every time is to have the shim between the shell holder & the die so you get a positive full stop every time. If you don't have something to make a solid stop against then it will very length depending on how easy the brass is to form. Harder brass is going to use up more slack in the press & not size down as much.

[Hopkins]

I have tried the gauge between the shell holder and die but the cam over defeats accurate measurement.

[antlermafia]

I fought this over and over until I bought the Redding Competition shellholder set. This set makes it easy to adjust the proper headspace.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/525874/redding-competition-shellholder-set-1-308-winchester-30-06-springfield-45-acp

http://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/35-competition-shellholder-sets

[Hopkins]

I personally would love to dispense with the cam over in the press permanently.

[bigedp51]

I don't have the "magic" feeler gauges that fguffey has so I use something far more practical.

The average full length resizing die is made to push the shoulder of the case back .002 smaller than minimum headspace or the GO gauge. If your actual headspace is .003 over minimum you are over resizing your cases which causes case head separations.

I set my dies up per the instructions for "MINIMUM" case dimensions "BUT" use headspace control shims to control how far the shoulder is pushed back by the resizing die. These headspace control shims are placed under the die lock ring, which moves the die upward and away from the shell holder.

You do NOT need to go over center on your press and push the shoulder of the case back the MAXIMUM amount each time you full length resize your cases.

Please note my "magic" feeler gauges are shaped like donuts or washers and actually control the cartridge headspace. ;)

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP4385.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/7-17-201054719PM.jpg

I know how long my cases are before and after sizing

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMG_1243.jpg

P.S. Eat you heart out fguffey. :neener:

[fguffey]

Hopkins, I collect presses, I do not have less than 16, some of them cam over, I have 4 Rock Chuckers, none of my Rock Chuckers cam over, they jam up, go into a bind or lock up, but they do not cam over. As indicated by the responses the function of the cam over is not understood, nice thing, it is not necessary to understand the function to own one.

First, what press are you using.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

Hopkins, I went back and read the part where you said you are using a Rock Chucker, how did you determine the Rock Chucker was a cam over press? The worst habit a reloader can get into is repeating what he reads on the Internet as fact.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

http://squibloads.wordpress.com/reloading/lock-rings/

The link above list 5 lock rings, two are designed to be used with out a set screw, Lee and Dillon, still reloaders insist on replacing the lock rings with a ring they understand and or familiar with. some insist on securing the lock ring to the die with a set screw, even when the manufacture did not provide a means of securing the lock ring to the die, I do not secure the lock ring to the die, I secure the die to the press with the lock ring.

Rational? I adjust the die to the shell holder every time, when adjusting the die to the shell holder that could mean, below the shell holder as in an additional 1/4 turn after contact, it could mean to the shell holder or off the shell holder. A cam over press does not complicate adjustments (should not complicate),


F. Guffey

[fguffey]

Going back to Pacific dies, some had an integral hex nut on top like Dillon dies, again, Dillon dies do not use a lock ring with a set screw, those that do not understand the function of a lock ring without a set screw have trouble adjusting a die, I know it sounds impressive when a reloader claims they are adjusting the die for .002 bump, when using Skip’s shims the die must be removed from the press to add and or subtract a shim, after adding or subtracting shims the die is secured to the press with the lock nut secured to the die? Seems while the nut is turning the die is turning, after all, the threads are on the die, I prefer to adjust the die first then secure the die to the press, again Pacific and Dillon by design have a means of holding the die while the lock nut secures the die.

F. Guffey

[kelbro]

I fought this over and over until I bought the Redding Competition shellholder set. This set makes it easy to adjust the proper headspace.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/525...ngfield-45-acp

http://www.redding-reloading.com/onl...ellholder-sets

Ideal. Quick, easy, repeatable.

[Hopkins]

The press is a 1988 RCBS RC II. Using RCBS Reloading Die Instructions to set up any RCBS Full Length or Neck Sizing dies the "press cams over center".
If I ignore the instructions and set the dies much deeper into the press it can't cam over center.

[Hopkins]

Thanks, bigedp51 for reminding me of those shims. I meant to get them a while back and forgot about them. Setting the dies is only an occasional hair pulling event so my ire isn't constantly raised by poorly engineered reloading products. The genius crew that adopted 7/8's 14tpi as the standard for die threading deserve special recognition in the precision reloader's pantheon.

[Hopkins]

By the way guffey, thanks for casting aspersions on my intelligence immediately. You PO'ed me to the point I rethought my press and realized that by ignoring RCBS instructions I can do away with the cam over, allowing for repeatable results. Your locking ring explanations are entertaining.

[fguffey]

Last edited by NeuseRvrRat; Yesterday at 08:08 PM. Reason: but we still won't be able to understand what he's trying to say

I have tried the gauge between the shell holder and die but the cam over defeats accurate measurement.

I personally would love to dispense with the cam over in the press permanently.

I don't have the "magic" feeler gauges that fguffey has so I use something far more practical.

The average full length resizing die is made to push the shoulder of the case back .002 smaller than minimum headspace or the GO gauge. If your actual headspace is .003 over minimum you are over resizing your cases which causes case head separations.

I set my dies up per the instructions for "MINIMUM" case dimensions "BUT" use headspace control shims to control how far the shoulder is pushed back by the resizing die. These headspace control shims are placed under the die lock ring, which moves the die upward and away from the shell holder.

You do NOT need to go over center on your press and push the shoulder of the case back the MAXIMUM amount each time you full length resize your cases.

Please note my "magic" feeler gauges are shaped like donuts or washers and actually control the cartridge headspace.





I know how long my cases are before and after sizing



P.S. Eat you heart out fguffey.



The press is a 1988 RCBS RC II. Using RCBS Reloading Die Instructions to set up any RCBS Full Length or Neck Sizing dies the "press cams over center".
If I ignore the instructions and set the dies much deeper into the press it can't cam over center.

Thanks, bigedp51 for reminding me of those shims. I meant to get them a while back and forgot about them. Setting the dies is only an occasional hair pulling event so my ire isn't constantly raised by poorly engineered reloading products. The genius crew that adopted 7/8's 14tpi as the standard for die threading deserve special recognition in the precision reloader's pantheon.

By the way guffey, thanks for casting aspersions on my intelligence immediately. You PO'ed me to the point I rethought my press and realized that by ignoring RCBS instructions I can do away with the cam over, allowing for repeatable results. Your locking ring explanations are entertaining.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“I have read in the past in this forum proponents of using a feeler gauge to adjust a full length resizing die to avoid excessive resizing. I have tried to puzzle out a method to accomplish this and have failed. Is this possible with a press that cams over? If so, I would appreciate some instruction on the method to achieve this. I have been using a Stoney Ridge/Hornady headspace gauge to measure my incremental adjustment results”

“Is this possible with a press that cams over?” Again, explain to me how much your RCBS Rock Chucker cams over, “I would appreciate some instruction on the method to achieve this” All this effort for Skip’s for shims?

F. Guffey

[Blue68f100]

My RCBS dies for 308W will set the should back over 0.012" If I set the dies like the instructions say. I used the RCBS Precision Mic tool to set the shoulder.

If your only working with 1 gun, there is no reason to mess with the shims. Set your dies for your gun and be done. If you want shims, get them from Amazon. I bought several complete sets, 0.001" -0.125", for $6. Then you have all kind of options.

In any case you must tighten the die down with the same torque to get a consistent results. You also need to make sure your getting a full stroke, cam over or not. The RCBS press cam over, unless you have the dies screwed down to far.

Run your ram all the way then install your dies and start the setup.

[Hopkins]

Shims or shell holders, I don't care other than the shell holders at $45 / case head dimension gets pricey. The cam over is something I can't precisely measure. Blue's assessment is similar to mine in that using the instructions causes over resizing.
I started this thread because I read in the past here the statement that setting up resizing with a feeler gauge was easy? or straightforward? or doable?
Quick question, do I in fact have a Rock Chucker?

[bigedp51]

The front part of your reloading manuals will go into the various methods of resizing cases, full length resizing, partial full length resizing and neck sizing.

All the information in the world is written in books, and all you need to do is read.

The article below from the Number Nine Speer reloading manual explained in great detail how to set up your reloading dies. It states that more inaccurate ammunition is reloaded due to simple die misalignment than any other cause.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/speer-1.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/speer-2.jpg

If you want to learn how to set up your reloading dies then go to http://www.accurateshooter.com/ and read their reloading articles.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP7650.jpg

Accuracy comes from accurate reloading dies set up properly and NOT "magic" feeler gauges.

Centering your dies with a lubed case before locking the lock ring down and centering the decaping rod so that it doesn't pull the neck of your case off center is critical. The above Forster dies do NOT have a expander button that can pull your necks off center, and have floating self centering bushings that size the neck of the case.

Some competitive shooters use rubber o-rings under the lock ring which allows the die to "float" and be self aligning.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/o-rings-on-dies-may-reduce-run-out/

You will not find fguffey's magic feeler gauge at AccurateShooter.com or long winded nonsensical postings. ;)

[bigedp51]

Hopkins

Shims or shell holders, I don't care other than the shell holders at $45 / case head dimension gets pricey. The cam over is something I can't precisely measure. Blue's assessment is similar to mine in that using the instructions causes over resizing.
I started this thread because I read in the past here the statement that setting up resizing with a feeler gauge was easy? or straightforward? or doable?
Quick question, do I in fact have a Rock Chucker?

Hopkins, start by placing a .010 feeler gauge on top of the shell holder and screw the full length die down until it contacts the feeler gauge. This procedure is used with thinner feeler gauges until the resized cartridge case will chamber in your rifle. Now subtract .002 from that feeler gauge and use that "smaller" feeler gauge as your final die hight adjustment. Use a lubed case to center your die and then run the lock ring down and lock it in position. The shoulder of your case will now be pushed back .002 and the "cartridge" headspace will be .002 shorter than actual chamber headspace. This .002 "wiggle room" will increase accuracy by letting the cartridge case be "self aligning" in the chamber.

By using the round washer shims in my above posting instead of feeler gauges the die alignment, centering and adjusting the lock ring is eliminated. (this is called reloading speed and accuracy) ;)

[Hopkins]

Thanks for the tips.

[Hopkins]

The cam over in my press adds factors of wiggle that complicate the procedure. Ringing accuracy out of loads at 400yds plus is a different discipline than building 100yd results. I spend a lot more time with my chronograph, calipers, scales and micrometers than before. As much as I would rather spend the resources elsewhere I guess a new press is next.
I do belong to and enjoy the other forum mentioned as well as this one.

[GLOOB]

If you think that cam over is adding additional "wiggle room," go back and read kingmt's post. Then throw away all your shims, feeler gauges (Skip's or magic or otherwise), and spring for those competition shellholders.

[fguffey]

kingmt's post

Hopkins, I collect presses, I do not have less than 16, some of them cam over, I have 4 Rock Chuckers, none of my Rock Chuckers cam over, they jam up, go into a bind or lock up, but they do not cam over. As indicated by the responses the function of the cam over is not understood, nice thing, it is not necessary to understand the function to own one.

First, what press are you using.

F. Guffey

kingmt's post:

Others are going to differ from what I tell you.

The only way to get the same thing every time is to have the shim between the shell holder & the die so you get a positive full stop every time. If you don't have something to make a solid stop against then it will very length depending on how easy the brass is to form. Harder brass is going to use up more slack in the press & not size down as much.

Gloog suggest:

If you think that cam over is adding additional "wiggle room," go back and read kingmt's post. Then throw away all your shims, feeler gauges (Skip's or magic or otherwise), and spring for those competition shell holders.

I said:

Rock Chuckers cam over?, they jam up, go into a bind or lock up, but they do not cam over. It would seem unfair, Hopkins has a Rock Chuckerr that cams over, I have 4 that do not, two have Piggy Back 11 presses attached.

Just an opinion base on pass experiences, Hopkins and ED have bonded and any contribution offered by Kingmt never had a chance, and I stayed out.

February 22, 2012, 08:07 PM #5
NeuseRvrRat
Member


Join Date: January 24, 2011
Location: Roxboro, NC
Posts: 374 guffey will love this

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by NeuseRvrRat; February 22, 2012 at 08:08 PM. Reason: but we still won't be able to understand what he's trying to say

and I have no clue how an adult could take pride in this effort by NeuseRvrRat.

F. Guffey

[Hopkins]

The shell holders don't do anything more or less than shims will other than subtract vs add distance between the the shoulder of the die and the cartridge case head.

[Hopkins]

I don't want to get off on the wrong foot with anyone. My problem is the cam over which I can't measure and for that reason don't want. I would like to be able to use a feeler gauge to set my fl resizing die for each of the rifles I reload for. I have accurate measurements of no go cases that are difficult to chamber and have been able to resize them enough but sometimes more than enough to chamber. Those sizing adjustments are frustrating efforts in trial and error so far.

[GLOOB]

The shell holders don't do anything more or less than shims will other than add vs subtract distance between the the shoulder of the die and the cartridge case head.

Well, if I understand how these shims are used, then I have to disagree:
headspace control shims to control how far the shoulder is pushed back by the resizing die. These headspace control shims are placed under the die lock ring, which moves the die upward and away from the shell holder.
Sound to me like these shims do nothing more than endorse a way to index your dies incorrectly.

A competition shellholder contacts the die on each stroke. Doesn't matter how hard/soft the brass is, how much your press flexes, or how much wiggle you have on your cam (or how misunderstood or nice thing cam over is). When screwed all the way down plus a quarter turn, your sizing is dictated by the size of your die/shellholder combination. The die and shellholder do not flex, to any significant degree. If they make contact on each stroke, then that's the most repeatable sizing you will achieve. It doesn't matter if your press is a Lee C clamp or a Rock Chucker or a thousand dollar press. The brass wouldn't know the difference.

When you decide to size using an air gap between die and shellholder, you introduce all those variables. So using precisely machined shims to perfectly control the amount of gap is hardly going to transfer those precise results to the brass, unless your press is extremely rigid or your brass is extremely uniform.

And since you can easily convert mils into fractions of a turn, I don't see why you would spend the time or money to buy/make shims to begin with. Well, I suppose it would be convenient, if you have multiple rifles to load for. But not as convenient or effective as a set of the aforementioned shellholders.

and have been able to resize them enough but sometimes more than enough to chamber. Those sizing adjustments are frustrating efforts in trial and error so far.
Even when set up correctly, you will always get some variation in your brass sizing. Some brass will have more spring back than others. One thing you can do is use a case gauge to check all your sized brass, and set aside and anneal those cases that don't size enough. If you can keep your brass separate for each rifle and for each number of firings, you will minimize this variation.

[Hopkins]

I accept that measuring an air gap between the shell holder and die is useless with this press. I agree that adjusted by way of a shell holder into full battery the die cannot size beyond the limit physically imposed. The same thing can be achieved by using the appropriate shim.

[sugarmaker]

My rock chucker, circa 1992, cams over. my LNL-AP also cams over. The RC has a little bit of flex, so the ram height at TDC is a function of how much force is on the press. hotter loads, stiffer brass, fired in different guns, or changes in lube from case to case will affect how much the neck is pushed back UNLESS the ram contacts the bottom of the die on every case. At that point you have created a dead length chamber, it's the best, you can do no better. Using a shim between the die and shellholder will work to reduce neck set-back but to be precise it must be left in position so it lengthens the dead length chamber. Sizing or seating, a dead length setup is what works best esp. in an aluminum press which stretches like a rubber band. A steel (both frame and links) rock chucker is much better in this regard, but still not perfect. Affix a dial indicator so it measures between the shellholder and top of the press and run a few different cases, you'll be surprised how much variation there is unless your dies kiss at the top of the stroke. Don't do this with a Corbin swage press, it WILL break your dies, it has about half a thou of flex between no contact and stand on handle hard. An RC has enough spring so you're OK. T clarify, i measure about 2 thou of variation on the RC and ablut 10 (at least, depends on what else is going on) on the LNL-AP. i have an older JR press that comes in at about 3 thou. This is difference between a lubed 9mm with carbide and a 30-06 doing FL size.

[Hopkins]

When I began this post I was trying to get answers about using a feeler gauge to adjust resizing dies accurately because I had been unable to figure out how it was done. I had tried and failed. I did not make the mistake of believing that I could use it to measure a gap between the die and shell holder. I thought it was possible that I was missing something.

[fguffey]

Hopkins, in my opinion you should avoid ‘polarizing’ there is too much of that going on, the Redding shell holders add distance ‘not subtract’ to a maximum of .010 thousands, again, I have a set, $5.00 for a set of 5, all total they are off .003, so I can not complain and a few know that small stuff like that does not lock me up.

Again, I have a M1917 Eddystone with .016 thousands head space, not uncommon for an Eddystone, When forming cases for the chamber, I adjust the die off the shell holder .014 thousands, Not easy to find trashy old cases that are too long from the head of the case to the shoulder, so I use 280 Remington cases, When it comes to the transfer/standard/companion to the press, the feeler gage, think of it as a tool not a person.

Thinking of the feeler gage as a person will consume you, lock you up, and turn you into something you should not aspire to be.

F. Guffey

[Hopkins]

Damn, I was going to show off for Dulcinea and joust a feeler gauge posing as a windmill.

[Hopkins]

RCBS technical advisor wrote me "You can back off the die slightly and the press won't cam over. The cam over occurs when you set the size die down below the shell holder a 1/4 turn. We don't have any alternate parts that work with the press."

[fguffey]

Hopkins, forgive, if you are saying you had an impluse and then changed your mind, thank you

Sugarmaker, again, It is not fair, but, I ask again, if the ROCK CHUCKER cams over’ how much???? in thousands, I have deflection gages, strain gages, in reloading that is just name dropping I understand. RCBS makes a great press, if I thought it had a fault I would build a set of tools that would identify a/the problem.

Mass Hysteria, it happened when someone with a camera recorded the operation of a RCBS press with out a die and or shell holder, to everyone's horror the ram jumped forward at the top of the stroke and then, the reloading forums took on the nature of MASS HYSTERIA, and then blamed the Chinese, and totally disregarded my advise, “THE Rock Chucker in the video did not cam over” it jammed over, crammed over, etc, but, what ever it did, it did not cam over.

F. Guffey

[bigedp51]

Hopkins

The die does NOT need to contact the shell holder, the amount of resizing lube, age and condition of the brass etc. will control the spring back of the brass when resized. This is why they make cartridge headspace gauges to measure the exact "end result" of sizing your cases.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMG_1243.jpg

Below is from the Sierra Exterior Ballistics website, and this information doesn't contain egos and opinions. :rolleyes:

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/resize.cfm

Full Length Sizing

Full length sizing is the most commonly used form of resizing. Full length sizing dies reduce the neck and body dimensions of a fired case to allow free and easy chambering. In most instances, full length sizing will reduce the case dimensions enough to allow it to be used interchangeably in several different rifles chambered for the same cartridge. Contrary to popular opinion, full length resizing is commonly used by the vast majority of competitive shooters, especially in those disciplines where rapid-fire is involved. It should be clearly understood that full length sizing does not reduce a fired case to its original, unfired dimensions. The goal here is to bring the case dimensions down far enough to allow the reloaded case to be chambered without difficulty.

Adjustment of the full length die calls for the die body to be screwed down in the press until it contacts the shell holder at the top of the ram’s stroke. If the ammunition is to be reused in the same gun the cases were originally fired in, back the die off 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn and size a lightly lubricated case. Wipe the case dry, and chamber it in the gun. If any resistance is felt, lower the die body another 1/8 of a turn (or less), and repeat the process with another fired case. This is repeated until the action will just close without resistance. When this has been accomplished, set the lock ring to secure the die in place. This method will ensure that the fired cases are resized with a minimum amount of headspace. This case has now been “custom fitted” to that particular chamber.

This will normally provide the best case life and accuracy, but does require that the ammunition only be used in the gun in which it was originally fired. If the ammunition is to be used in a different gun of the same chambering, of course!, the sizing die should be adjusted down until it just contacts the shell holder at the top of the ram’s stroke.

This results in a slightly greater amount of headspace, but will allow the ammunition to be used in several different guns. Whichever adjustment style is used, full length sizing is generally the best sizing method for most shooting situations.

The custom shell holders are nice and work extremely well "BUT" at $50.00 each for the different caliber sets the cost adds up quickly, I'll keep using my shims and save over $100.00 that can be used elsewhere. And also know exactly how far off the shell holder my dies are. ;)

"MASS HYSTERIA" only happens when people read fguffey's postings and try to understand them. :rolleyes:

"the reloading forums took on the nature of MASS HYSTERIA, and then blamed the Chinese, and totally disregarded my advise"

Fguffey do the Chinese have feeler gauges and does the landing gear of a Chinese aircraft cam over when down and locked. :scrutiny:

[bigedp51]

Headspace Control Shims Test

Shell Holder Bump vs. Case Head Runout

http://www.armaster.com/htm/shim_test.htm

NOTE: contacting the shell holder will "NOT" straighten a warped banana shaped case with unequal case wall thickness or ensure the base of the case is 90 degrees to the axis of the bore. ;)

[Hopkins]

I would rather invest in go gauges for the 6 cartridges I load for and a set of shims for the press than custom shell holders. If that combination works along with my headspace gauge and a knowledge of my true chamber dimension I'll put the feeler gauge back in the tool box for engine rebuilding and valve adjusting.

[Hopkins]

I used the procedure outlined in the quoted Sierra text but when you have 2 resizing dies for 5 .308 rifles, 1 resizing die for 3 30-06 rifles and 1 resizing die for 2 6x55 's plus the other rifles I load for it's pretty time consuming to switch that way for each resizing task. Hence my interest in a fool proof way to set up resizing with repeatable measurements.

[sugarmaker]

Ok... What I claim (and the ONLY thing I claim) is that most presses (the three I own) have ram height variations under load. One Corbin swage press (I forget the model, it was a manual press with a die adapter) I measured did not show this. I used a Starett dial indicator. The presses do not show variation when the die contacts the shellholder. No claims made about this adjustment fixing all the things brass does to make life challenging. I agree, these happen, have an affect on the case, etc... little gremlins we all deal with. For myself, I like knowing once I identify the correct setup (I have a set of stony point / hornady gauges also) that my press isn't doing any unapproved self-adjustment, however small it may be. (on the LNL-AP it isn't small...)

With my RC if I run the handle all the way down the ram goes over center, it takes a little bit of handle force to "pop" (pop is a strong work, it's not that much) it back over. I actually prefer it that way, as I find there are no questions about reaching TDC on the ram. It's been so long since I bought it I need to go down and look, I know I removed a bit of metal to help the .375HH fit better, not sure if that affected the up stroke or the down - from memory i thought it was down but my memory is suspect and i'm not at home right now.

[Hopkins]

Sugarmaker, I agree with your assessment of the RC at the cam point or whatever it is that happens when battery is achieved. My plan at this point is to use a over sized case as a goat and resize it short of ideal, measure and adjust with the shim to the ideal.

[popper]

Hopkins- 'cam-over' is just tactile feedback as sugermaker stated. You 'know' when the handle get pulled all the way. Any 'slack' in the press will ALWAYS be there no mater who's pres you use. I didn't buy the shims - they are probably a good idea. I change calibers often in reloading and use the feeler gauge to set the die on bottleneck cases. Hint - put larger gauge leafs on both sides of the thinner leaf to prevent destroying the thinner ones. Use the case gauge to check your work. Start with the die off the shell holder, size and adjust until you get the proper setback. Then, insert feeler gauge between shell holder and die, raise the ram (if it is a cam over type, move on and off the cam point). Gently pull on the feeler gauge and you can tell when you have the right fit. Size a few and check with CG. WRITE DOWN the measurement! Next time you screw in the die, check and see if there is a difference - then find out why. Beats guessing! Like adjusting engine valves. As a long range shooter, I suspect you want to control HS and case volume.

[Hopkins]

If the case volumes are the same, the neck tension the same, the bullets identical...so forth and so on the velocity should be close to the same which should yield the same down range vertical performance. That's the theory. There is a lot of the "so forth and so on" I haven't bothered to list but it's all becoming part of a OCD quest.