[TMiller556]

I have posted a similar thread about a year ago related to firearm related careers but now I've narrowed it down to firearm design. Some of you may know me but in case you don't, I just turned 17 years old and I'm from NYC. I've been interested in firearms since I was 15 despite little hands on experience. The only hands on experience that I've had is shooting an AR and an AK a couple of times at a range out in Long Island. I have also refinished milsurp M14 stocks from nearby LRB Arms. I am fascinated by the internal mechanisms of various firearms and how they operate. I have been reading books and sites non stop since I first became interested. I'm fascinated and have read books on many aspects of guns including ballistics (interior, exterior, terminal), reloading, history and development of firearms since hand cannons, internal mechanism/design, etc.) I feel that since I'm from NYC, I can't really pursue my dream. My plan was to enlist in the Marines trying to get MOS 2111 (small arms repair) even though I know that the chances of me getting the MOS i want is very slim. After getting discharged, I wanted to major in mechanical engineering and maybe take some gunsmithing courses. Then after gaining enough experience by working in a mechanical engineering position (not firearms related necessarily), I would try to get hired by a gun manufacturer. After learning the ins and outs of the firearm business, I was thinking I could try to open up my own business with my own firearm designs. Does this goal sound attainable? I know that things won't be as quick as I may have said it. If anyone can help me I would REALLY appreciate it. Thanks in advance :)

[TMiller556]

I might as well explain my situation since it may help you guys answer my question. My father passed away in 2010 when I was 15 and I moved in with my mom afterwards. When I was 16, I got taken out of my mom's house and got put into foster care since she has drug and alcohol problems and I couldn't stay there. I have been in foster care since and I have recently returned to school and I currently have a 97 average :D Anyway, that is why I was planning on joining the Marines anyway, so I can get a college education. Also, I have been offered many opportunities by some really nice people online to meet them at nearby ranges (such as Long Island) and they would let me shoot any of their guns as long as I paid for ammo. But since I'm in this situation, it is impossible for me to get a ride out to distant places. I'm sorry, I really didn't mean for this to sound like my life story lol, I just figured it would help. Once again thanks

[dprice3844444]

ask to become an armorer and study mechanical engineering,autocad software and cnc machine operation and programming.also study fluid dynamics

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/10/12/gun-design-engineer-answers-your-questions/

http://search.aol.com/aol/search?query=weapons+design+software&s_it=keyword_rollover

[michaelmcgo]

I am a Product Design Engineer, and like most people on this board, I too am intrigued by firearm mechanisms. Your goals sound good (Marines to pay for college). My advice to you is to first look for a job where you can work metal and run machines. If you can get into a tool and die shop (you'll have to start by pushing a broom), you'll gain experience working metal that you'll need if you ever want to design anything. Before you take a gunsmithing class, I'd strongly recommend you take a class (probably at a trade school) on manual machining practices. Learn how to operate a knee mill, lathe, and drill press and you'll be able to make most anything you want.

I design custom machines in AutoDesk Inventor all day long, but I started in the shop and attribute most of my design abilities to my time assembling machines and machining parts. It is one thing to design a power-transfer linkage on a computer, it is a whole other thing to prototype it and realize you're loosing half your efficiency because you didn't get your angles right...

Stay in school and get that Mechanical Engineering Degree. Get some good hands-on jobs on your resume and you'll be a shoe-in at a lot of design houses. You'd be amazed what you don't learn in college and employers know it. We won't hire straight-out-of-college if they don't have hands-on experience.

[opsman]

Tmiller556

Your goal sounds obtainable, I admire you for having a goal already at your age, most people your age have no clue as to what direction they wish to go. Being a retired Marine I applaude your choice of the Corps, but do not limit yourself to the Marine Corps. Be willing to go Army as well, I think the chances of you getting what you want are better with the Army as the Corps is a small organization and is going to become even smaller here shortly. I am impressed that you have done something with your life givin the circumstances that you grew up around. Keep after your dream, and do not limit yourself to the military, if your passion for firearms is that strong you may wish to contact the manufactures directly to see if they have apprentice programs, being in NY you have Remington, Kimber, Ithaca, just to name a few. You never know unless you ask, and it never hurts to ask. If you are still in High School, consider taking college courses now, also when you graduate enroll in Community College right away, along with checking into the military. The more courses you get out of the way now the better off you will be down the road.

Keep chasing your dream, who knows someday you could have a firearm with our name on it.

[TMiller556]

ask to become an armorer and study mechanical engineering,autocad software and cnc machine operation and programming.also study fluid dynamics

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/10/12/gun-design-engineer-answers-your-questions/

http://search.aol.com/aol/search?query=weapons+design+software&s_it=keyword_rollover
thank you for the link, a lot of questions that I had were answered.

[TMiller556]

I am a Product Design Engineer, and like most people on this board, I too am intrigued by firearm mechanisms. Your goals sound good (Marines to pay for college). My advice to you is to first look for a job where you can work metal and run machines. If you can get into a tool and die shop (you'll have to start by pushing a broom), you'll gain experience working metal that you'll need if you ever want to design anything. Before you take a gunsmithing class, I'd strongly recommend you take a class (probably at a trade school) on manual machining practices. Learn how to operate a knee mill, lathe, and drill press and you'll be able to make most anything you want.

I design custom machines in AutoDesk Inventor all day long, but I started in the shop and attribute most of my design abilities to my time assembling machines and machining parts. It is one thing to design a power-transfer linkage on a computer, it is a whole other thing to prototype it and realize you're loosing half your efficiency because you didn't get your angles right...

Stay in school and get that Mechanical Engineering Degree. Get some good hands-on jobs on your resume and you'll be a shoe-in at a lot of design houses. You'd be amazed what you don't learn in college and employers know it. We won't hire straight-out-of-college if they don't have hands-on experience.
Thank you for the reply. I was told by many other people to take machining classes, I forgot to mention that in the post. I downloaded Autodesk one time and I was completely lost lol. When should I look for a machining job? After the mechanical engineering degree? Or are you saying that I should take a machining class first? I appreciate the help

[Bubbles]

If your ultimate goal is to get an engineering degree with a side in machine work, I would look very hard at the Navy or Air Force before the Marines.

[TMiller556]

Tmiller556

Your goal sounds obtainable, I admire you for having a goal already at your age, most people your age have no clue as to what direction they wish to go. Being a retired Marine I applaude your choice of the Corps, but do not limit yourself to the Marine Corps. Be willing to go Army as well, I think the chances of you getting what you want are better with the Army as the Corps is a small organization and is going to become even smaller here shortly. I am impressed that you have done something with your life givin the circumstances that you grew up around. Keep after your dream, and do not limit yourself to the military, if your passion for firearms is that strong you may wish to contact the manufactures directly to see if they have apprentice programs, being in NY you have Remington, Kimber, Ithaca, just to name a few. You never know unless you ask, and it never hurts to ask. If you are still in High School, consider taking college courses now, also when you graduate enroll in Community College right away, along with checking into the military. The more courses you get out of the way now the better off you will be down the road.

Keep chasing your dream, who knows someday you could have a firearm with our name on it.
Thanks opsman. I was told that the chances of getting the MOS that I want in both the Corps and the Army are equal (very slim) but I see what you mean. The Army has way more people and I'm sure way more MOS' are available. If I am able to pay for college, do you think the military would still be a good opportunity? The only thing that bothers me is the fact that I can be stuck with an MOS that I don't want until I get discharged. And if I want to switch over (lat move) I'll have to wait to enlist again. Unfortunately, I don't think my school offers any college courses. I'm not sure if you mean pre-engineering or something like that.

[TMiller556]

I am a Product Design Engineer, and like most people on this board, I too am intrigued by firearm mechanisms. Your goals sound good (Marines to pay for college). My advice to you is to first look for a job where you can work metal and run machines. If you can get into a tool and die shop (you'll have to start by pushing a broom), you'll gain experience working metal that you'll need if you ever want to design anything. Before you take a gunsmithing class, I'd strongly recommend you take a class (probably at a trade school) on manual machining practices. Learn how to operate a knee mill, lathe, and drill press and you'll be able to make most anything you want.

I design custom machines in AutoDesk Inventor all day long, but I started in the shop and attribute most of my design abilities to my time assembling machines and machining parts. It is one thing to design a power-transfer linkage on a computer, it is a whole other thing to prototype it and realize you're loosing half your efficiency because you didn't get your angles right...

Stay in school and get that Mechanical Engineering Degree. Get some good hands-on jobs on your resume and you'll be a shoe-in at a lot of design houses. You'd be amazed what you don't learn in college and employers know it. We won't hire straight-out-of-college if they don't have hands-on experience.
By the way, someone suggested that I also take materials science.. is that a good idea?

[Jeremiah10:23]

Congrats on deciding for military service.

Bubbles has very good advice. The Navy or Air Force could give you a better start toward what you want.

One word of caution. Read the job descriptions very carefully. Some of them are extremely out of date and do not perform some of the same functions any more. For example I joined the Navy in 1984 fresh out of HS wanting to be a machinist (like you), the job title for a "machinist mate" read exactly what I wanted. Guess what... Nope.

Your best bet is to find someone in the military that does what you want and ask him what his job title is and go for it.

If you decide to go USMC, I'll pick on you later (haha).

[TMiller556]

Thanks Jeremiah I'll look into it

[wannabeagunsmith]

Thank you for the reply. I was told by many other people to take machining classes, I forgot to mention that in the post. I downloaded Autodesk one time and I was completely lost lol. When should I look for a machining job? After the mechanical engineering degree? Or are you saying that I should take a machining class first? I appreciate the help

What you could try to do is find a 'skills center' where you can learn a trade and get highschool and college credits. Where I live there is one, I have signed up for an aerospace class and law enforcement one, however there are also others like auto body repair, construction, etc where you can learn to operate machines in order to get the experience. Remember, Gaston Glock started out manufacturing curtain rods and grenade shells before creating the world's best (biased) pistol with almost 0 hours of firearm experiance. Just some advise from a fello like-minded teenager.

[NG VI]

Mechanical engineering, that's the basic initial career field you want to get into. Specialize at some point later, but all you need to do now is take every math class you can and apply to engineering schools.

[Certaindeaf]

You sound like a good sprout. Go forth and get educated (in a good way) whatever the "cost" or hurdles. Sounds like you have a fair plan.

[TMiller556]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll definitely look into the machining and I'll look out for any other mechanical engineering classes while I'm still in high school.

[NG VI]

Also expect to have a long road ahead of you before you're really ready for the workforce. Don't get too wrapped up in the immediate, by the time you've finished your education you'll be employable anywhere, in any number of high-quality companies.

[TMiller556]

Also expect to have a long road ahead of you before you're really ready for the workforce. Don't get too wrapped up in the immediate, by the time you've finished your education you'll be employable anywhere, in any number of high-quality companies.
I know what you mean, I'll be patient.

[Steve CT]

Possibly consider the US Coast Guard. My son is the (only) Gunner's Mate on a new cutter, he is the sole caregiver for SIG 229's, Remington 870's, M4 Carbines, M240 MG, M2 .50 MG, and 25mm MK 38 Chain Gun.

[Powerglide]

And, plus, always put 100% into your various occupations as word of mouth and luck are important.
"I know this young feller" could be your key to "foot in the door" deal with someone you need.

[-v-]

If you want to be on the design and engineering side, your future passes through a Master's in Mechanical Engineering and then working through the industry to get to where you want to be. My recommendation is get very very cosy with math, because engineering is all applied mathematics, day in day out. As part of your engineering courses, I am confident you will have some material science and other topics sprinkled in that will make you "workforce ready". As always do your homework, google "Top engineering programs" from US World and News or Wall Street Journal. Remember to be hunting for internships for the summer during the fall semester. The one before your senior year is usually the most important, because if you make a good impression chances are better then not that they will be your first employer.

Also, do try to get the job you want from the get go, but also remember about lateral migration within the industry to get where you want to be. Someone with 5-10 year's experience is a much more attractive candidate vs someone fresh out of school. So, if your first position is not the exact one you want, don't get discouraged, and keep an eye on your long term goal. A lot of it is a marathon, not a sprint to the finish.

While getting some hands-on experience with running the machinery will not hurt you, as an engineer a lot of your day will be spent in front of your work station designing parts and calculating tolerances, forces, etc, etc. and then passing the final specs down the line to the people who will plug it into the computer to make the parts...in other words, the closest you will get to the machine shop is to go down stairs and inspect a prototype fresh off the lathe.

[dampoo]

I worked in the trades and then engineering after my degree and I can state that I never needed to use a gunsmith. Every project that I had was completed with the machinists and the tool and die makers that I worked with.

A large number of the machinists were graduates of Milford NE community college in their machinist program. With this degree any of the military services would be interested in you and you will get into a true machinist position.

During this you could see if the service you choose has a college program going. A friend of mine finished two years in college in his 5 years in the Navy. He went to engineering school for 3 years for his Mechanical Engineering degree. After all of this his career aspirations changed 3 times.

Get your education and see where you end up.

[Certaindeaf]

And then there's the old wild card. I know people that have designed/invented milestone markers and they really couldn't spell "spell". As in any and everything, there is luck and perhaps a balance. We all wish you luck.

[cogun4hire]

As a current service member in the particular branch you are interested in (Lt. USMC), I will tell you right now that you have many options concerning the military. As an officer myself, I strongly suggest you consider getting a 4-year degree first, then serve your time. I was very close to enlisting out of high school when I was you age, but heeded others experience. Enlisting in the military is not a bad thing by any means. You will get taken care of, bottom line. However, if you have the means to go to school first (which everyone has if they try hard enough i.e. grants, loans, scholarships etc) then I would do that. Coming out with a 4-year AND serving as an officer in ANY branch will just about allow you to write your ticket wherever you go.

-Graduate HS with a 3.3 or higher while simultaneously getting involved with a JROTC program if possible
- If you want to be part of the best... :p get into the Marines Platoon Leaders Class and live a normal college life while receiving roughly 50-60% tuition assistance OR....get into one of the other branches ROTC programs and live a SOMEWHAT normal college life and receive 100% tuition assistance
-Get your ass whooped during OCS/OTC during your summers
-Come out with a degree, guaranteed job, 50k+ salary, and most importantly...serve your country.

....THEN walk into a company and build/restore all the cool guns you want.

[TMiller556]

Possibly consider the US Coast Guard. My son is the (only) Gunner's Mate on a new cutter, he is the sole caregiver for SIG 229's, Remington 870's, M4 Carbines, M240 MG, M2 .50 MG, and 25mm MK 38 Chain Gun.
I was actually interested in the coast guard. I heard it's easier to be gunner's mate than to get the MOS that you want in the Marines. The problem is that I'm not much of a swimmer.

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

I was actually interested in the coast guard. I heard it's easier to be gunner's mate than to get the MOS that you want in the Marines. The problem is that I'm not much of a swimmer.

Don't worry about that. Neither are 90% of other Coast Guard fellas :D . Coast Guard isn't all about rescue operations and such. For a Gunners Mate MOS, you would just need to be able to pass a very generic (easy) swim test in Basic which, if it's still the same as it was, consists of 5 minutes head above water stationary, few hundred yards in a surprisingly slow and easy to reach time, and a little under water brick grab. Nothing to it. I know guys that went into the Navy and the Coasties that before hand couldn't swim a lick if they were paid to. They will teach you.

If your career plan does encapsulate actual firearms design, you will definitely need to get into some metallurgy classes as well. And to the fella that said that you would be spending all your time at a work station, THAT right there is what is wrong with 99.999% of EVERY damn engineer in the country. Give me an engineer with HANDS ON experience in whatever they are designing! I've heard "But sir, I have the design specs right here in my hand and they say it will work" so many times it's not even funny. YET so many times I have had to change specs on so many things in a design just to get the design to actually function in the field that I should have been getting paid for the design! Please do not be one of those morons that think just because it works on some computer drawing or CAD program that it will function in the real world! FOLLOW UP on the entire design and build. Make sure everything you come up with on that computer will actually work in the real world.

[B!ngo]

Like the post (below), I'm very impressed with your focus, your goal and a very mature method of reaching out for more info. Growing up in NY myself, I well understand how this interest is not well served in that locale. I had the same issue getting support in pursuing my interest in becoming a naval aviator back then. But it all worked out for the best.
I'm not sure though, that taking a tour through the military is the most efficient course. Not surprisingly, I'm a big military supporter but unless you're really focused on the military for the sake of serving, it may be tough and seem to take forever.
Perhaps a more direct path is in order. Try to communicate with a number of firearms companies. Be willing to sweep during the day and take college courses part time. Relocate, if you can, to a place where firearms and armorers are more commonplace. New York, especially the City, has to be the last place on earth for immersing yourself in your interest. The closer you can get to it, the more opportunities for learning you'll find. And you'll also be able to be sure that it's something you love.
Net net is that the order of things is to get closer to it for the reasons I just cited, then get some formal education (in the subject and get a higher degree), and then go for it big time.
Best of luck. From what you've written, if I still lived in NY, I'd be more than happy to shuttle you to Long Island now and then. You sound like a great guy.

Tmiller556

Your goal sounds obtainable, I admire you for having a goal already at your age, most people your age have no clue as to what direction they wish to go. Being a retired Marine I applaude your choice of the Corps, but do not limit yourself to the Marine Corps. Be willing to go Army as well, I think the chances of you getting what you want are better with the Army as the Corps is a small organization and is going to become even smaller here shortly. I am impressed that you have done something with your life givin the circumstances that you grew up around. Keep after your dream, and do not limit yourself to the military, if your passion for firearms is that strong you may wish to contact the manufactures directly to see if they have apprentice programs, being in NY you have Remington, Kimber, Ithaca, just to name a few. You never know unless you ask, and it never hurts to ask. If you are still in High School, consider taking college courses now, also when you graduate enroll in Community College right away, along with checking into the military. The more courses you get out of the way now the better off you will be down the road.

Keep chasing your dream, who knows someday you could have a firearm with our name on it.

[Ironclad]

Take as many college or AP maths and physics as you can in high school. Those are the main bottlenecks in engineering school and you cannot progress without them. I goofed around in high school taking metal fab and collision repair instead of calculus. I cant really say I regret it, but it definitely set me back once I got to college.

[TMiller556]

Thanks for the replies everyone. One more question. Are metallurgy, machining, and material science courses the only extra ones that I should take? What about gunsmithing or manufacturing? And Bingo, trust me.. as soon as I'm able to, I'm moving out of New York. I can't wait. I was thinking Pennsylvania but who knows I'm sure it will change by the time I actually move.

[opsman]

If your not that much of a swimmer, your going to be in for a shock in the Marine Corps as well, nothing like jumping off a 12 ft tower in full gear. Listen do not worry about the swimming, if you cannot pass the swim test they will teach you. Listen to the USMC Lt. well somewhat, being a retired Enisted Man myself, GySgt, I am a bit biased. Anyway, if you have the ways and means GO TO COLLEGE first! Life as an officer is better in many ways however there is nothing wrong with enlisting it just takes awhile to climb the ladder. No matter which branch you deciede you are making a great choice.
Lots of members here have givin you great advice it's up to you to choose which path you want to take, if you have the desire to serve your country then by all means go for it, the training and experience you receive there will be the best anywhere. Yes when you leave the service you have skills and experience and maybe a degree or two that puts you ahead of most when applying for a position.
Take what you need of the advice that has been offered and leave the rest. The world awaits you young man, it's all up to you!

[opsman]

TMiller556, I would think twice about moving out of NY, if you live in NYC then yes, but look at what your state has to offer, Lots of big name firearm firms right there in NY. Also paying for in state or resident tution is much better than having to pay for out of state. TRUST me on that one, my son went to a college out of state and the tution was outrageous. Look real hard into staying in the state, lots of opportunities within your own state.

[Rowdy1]

I was in the CG, don't worry about the swimming part. There were plenty of inner city kids that never went swimming and made it through. I will tell you I think th CG is probably the best branch to serve in because of its smaller size. If you're willing to work hard people will go out of their way to help you out. That being said, be expecting about 18-24 month wait to become a Gunner's Mate. 2 month boot camp, 4 months at first unit before putting name on "A" school list, 12-18 month wait to go to school after putting name on list. I wish you the best in your endeavor.

[Kernel]

Bare minimum, for a legit Bachelor of Science degree in any engineering field you must go to a school that is accredited by ABET. Don't waste your time and money at one that is not.

http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramSearch.aspx/AccreditationSearch.aspx

Don’t worry so much about what classes to take. Once you get into a program there will be a curriculum of exactly what classes you need to graduate. For now, assuming your still in high school, take as many math and physical science classes as your school offers.

Your HS guidance counselor can get you set up with the right classes for a college track. Ask if they offer an AutoCAD class thru a junior college while you‘re still in HS. If you spend more time studying and doing homework than playing video games you will do fine.

[TMiller556]

Ill try to see if my school offers any of those classes. My guidance counselor says that I am eligible to take calculus and physics next year, so I'll try my hardest to get those. I will also see where I am when I graduate, since things may change. And once again thanks everyone for helping me out. I am listening to everything that you guys are saying and I'll remember the advice that you gave me.

[TMiller556]

I apologize for bringing back this old thread, but I figured it would be better than making another one. My question is: what kind of salary range would I be expecting after a couple of years experience? I know that it varies and there are many many factors but is there any way to estimate a salary at all? Thanks in advance.

[Byrd666]

Good idea, and smart to join the Service first but, as a few(or more) have said, The Navy or Air Force would give you a better background in arms. One of my buddies in my battalion joined the Navy along about the same time I did, 1983, and did just what you are planning. He signed up as a Gunners Mate, well more openings than Sailors at the time, and somehow got lucky, or unlucky, depending on opinion, to get a billet on base doing small to medium arms repairs and such. I never did understand that. Or how he got the training and experience so quickly that he was begging for. Gotta love Personnel. Grumble Grumble. Last I heard before I got transferred, grrrumble, he was going to get out after his Tour and go to college for Mechanical Design.

God luck with whatever path or choice you make

[paintballdude902]

TM- look into other braches. im active duty air force as an Aerial Gunner on the AC-130U. the navy and AF both have great jobs that involve machining, but i think the navy has more of them. theres ups and downs about every branch i can honestly day i love my job but at the same time i hate it. it just depends on the day hahaha

im surprised your high school doesnt offer drafting or something like that. i graduated in 2009 and took 2 classes in engineering drafting. we did both mechanical drawing (pencil and t square) along with alot of cad and 3d solid modeling.


i was originally going to college for wildlife management before i enlisted (got tired of paying for it myself) and most of the time with specialty jobs that you enjoy the money wont be that amazing. its sad to say but the money isnt in the fun jobs.


when i get out i plan to go back to school (if im still with the same girl hopefully she'll be making lots of money by then hahaha) i plan to get a degree in small business then take some gun smithing classes. i want to open an old style hardware store where you can buy a little of everything (a more modern general store but keep the old timey feel) guns are my passion and a huge part of my life. theres no telling where i would be today if it wasnt for them. i know during high school i was at one point going down a pretty dark path........ then i got into competition shooting and it helped keep my nose clean

[CountryUgly]

You've got a solid plan and from what I've read there's alot of sound advice given on this thread so enjoy. The only flaw I see is Joining the USMC to get your college degree my step brother had the same idea and thirteen years later my SSGT. brother is still debating on getting out. Like him you may get there and never want to leave..... Good Luck with what ever road you decide to take....

[JustinJ]

If you want to join the military that's great. However, i would say joining solely for gun experience is a bad idea. Really consider what is involved first as there are always more than one path to college.

[Highgate]

Many, many years ago I wanted to work on firearms design in the UK.

I am a Physicist so I ended up designing special services military rifle sights for a few years before switching to a totally different career.

In those early years I met a couple of top gun experts : their view was that designing & developing usable military weapons was not especially difficult.

The KEY issue is MARKETING & SELLING firearms.

So I suspect that pining for a career as a firearms designer might not be wise.

[opsman]

Chose your path carefully, asking for help and advice form the good folks here shows that you are willing to take directions and are open for constructive criticism. Which ever path you chose will give you experiences in areas that others may not. Weigh your options carefully and let no one sway you from one branch of the service to the other, it's a personal choice if that is the way you wish to go. I will say that if you do join the service, getting to college is going to be a challenge. I am sure that all of us wish you the best of luck, keep in touch with us and let us know which path choose.