Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 Super Grade


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robertham1
February 24, 2012, 01:48 AM
I recently purchased what I believe to be a Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 Super Grade.

My question is what identifying marks are there that designate it super grade, other than the stamp on the floor plate? Is there any other sure fire way other than to call Winchester with the serial number? I know it has been restocked, very well i might add.

Thank you

- How much will the restocking affect the value?

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robertham1
February 24, 2012, 02:08 AM
http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv70/robertham1/e0ddd81d.jpg
http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv70/robertham1/3bf4f031.jpg
http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv70/robertham1/1daa0c21.jpg

Art Eatman
February 24, 2012, 06:38 AM
While Fjestad's "Blue Book" gives a quick-and-dirty overview of the Model 70s, there are quite a few reference-type books covering all aspects.

In original condition, Super Grades are valued at about double the standard grade.

Gordon
February 24, 2012, 09:36 AM
The stock is absolutely gorgeous! Give the serial # xing out the last three digits and I'll tell you more.

lowerunit411
February 24, 2012, 10:11 AM
that has tobe a custom shop stock or an after market stock. it is stunning , but not a standard super grade stock

robertham1
February 24, 2012, 10:52 AM
It is custom, not from off of the shelf

Sniper66
February 24, 2012, 11:50 AM
It is very hard to predict what impact a restock will have on any gun. Yours appears to be beautifully done and may add some, perhaps significant, value. My brother had similar wood added to his Winchester Model 12 Skeet Model and was offered $1,000 over "book" value. He turned it down because that is not the reason he added the new stock.
However, if you restock vintage collectibles, even with beautiful wood, it usually lowers the value.

sugarmaker
February 24, 2012, 12:57 PM
Sniper66 is correct, a re-stock unless it's factory is like re-finishing an antique - generally not reccomended. Much of what makes a super Grade a super grade is in the stock, a 70 std with that stock would have similar collector value. Sometimes if the stock was made by a famous maker it becomes desirable etc... but that gets kind of tricky to value. That much said, nice gun.

dirtyjim
February 24, 2012, 01:00 PM
It may be a nice stock but of has seriously affected the value of the rifle. It will cost you $600-1200+ to replace the stock with a original super grade stock

Gordon
February 24, 2012, 03:51 PM
I knew that other than a post 64 Custom shop job the Super Grades did not have Fluer de checkering patterns. I wanted the serial # because of the .300 Winchester Magnum Caliber it prolly is a post 64 Super Grade as the .300 WINCHESTER was only made 6 months in 1963. The serial# will tell the story!

JT-AR-MG42
February 24, 2012, 10:46 PM
The .300 Holland & Holland was also called the '300 magnum' in the U.S. for quite a while. My 1956 super grade is marked 300 H&H Magnum. Earlier caliber markings?, I just don't know.
Have you tried anything in it to see what it is chambered in? A 300 Win. Mag. will not chamber in a 300 H&H.

I agree with with Gordon about needing the serial. Just type it in like so - 'serial is 345xxx' - we don't need the entire number.

The safety is definitely post war, but I cannot see the tang in the photos. Is it a cloverleaf transition gun or is the tang a continuous oval? Again, the serial would likely clear that up.

I would disagree with Gordon on the gun being post '64. Never heard of a post '64 with the rear sight raised integral lug on the barrel.


The super grade bolt body, extractor, and magazine follower were engine turned (jeweled) and you should see the serial number engraved on the bottom of the bolt in a small polished smooth rectangle.
And, of course, the floorplate marking. That's it as far as differences in the barreled action compared to a standard grade.

The barrel is also dated on the underside next to the receiver. Other than the rare calibers or war2/immediate post war manufacture, the barrel and receiver date should be fairly close.

You pic of the action shows what looks like a polished smooth or blued? extractor.


My take on your nice rifle without more info, JT

Gordon
February 24, 2012, 11:38 PM
I don't know why I thought it was a .300 Win Mag, yup just says .300 Magnum like a pre 64. Also the bolt knob appears solid making it a pre 1954 or so. The raised barrel section looks like a pre 64 on 2nd exam, but need serialization. Whatever it is a beautiful gun! Being the stock is not factory I'd prolly have it rechambered to .300 Weatherby and call it good! .300 H&H is much harder to find an a lot costlier. AND you still can shoot .300 H&H in the .300 Weatherby chamber.

robertham1
February 25, 2012, 02:36 AM
I will get a serial number for y'all on Sunday as I'm on vacation. I'm positive it is pre-64.

sage5907
February 26, 2012, 01:23 PM
A look at my reference book shows the Die Marking to read .300 Magnum from April 20, 1936 to June 24, 1950. On June 25, 1950 the Die Marking was changed to 300 H&H Magnum. That indicates this particular rifle was made before June 25, 1950. Page 243 of the reference book shows a picture of a special order super grade rifle that appears to have the same stock and checkering pattern as your photo. If this is true you have a very valuable rifle. BW

Liberty1776
February 26, 2012, 03:04 PM
I believe the re-stocking has made that gun dangerous. Please send it to my house and I will be sure that you are protected from it...:p

Coltdriver
February 26, 2012, 04:07 PM
With a beautiful stock like that purists be dammed!! That is beautiful.

Chances are pretty good that with a beautiful piece of wood like that that you also got one done by someone who knows what they are up to.

Let us know how it shoots!

robertham1
February 27, 2012, 01:53 AM
The serial number is 140XXX. I haven't shot it yet. Should I be concerned about it being chambered in .300H&H instead of .300 Win Mag?

robertham1
February 27, 2012, 01:57 AM
Shooter, I'm almost positive that this was a custom stock job as another model 70, not a super grade, that I picked up from the same fella has an identical stock. Yes, they are both beautiful.

robertham1
February 27, 2012, 02:05 AM
http://img.tapatalk.com/62f88731-2b3b-5769.jpg

Here you can see the stocks. The super grade is on top.

robertham1
February 27, 2012, 02:07 AM
Now, can you deduce anything from the sling mounts? The super grades sling mounts are not the swivel type.

robertham1
February 27, 2012, 02:13 AM
http://img.tapatalk.com/62f88731-2cbf-30c4.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/62f88731-2cde-1e5c.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/62f88731-2d1a-ff35.jpg

robertham1
February 27, 2012, 02:15 AM
FYI the serial number on the other model 70 is 315XXX.

That one has been re-barreled as well as restocked.

sage5907
February 27, 2012, 10:47 AM
Robert, the super grade was made in 1950, and since Winchester changed the barrel marking die on June 24, 1950 that indicates the barrel was made prior to June 24, 1950. Look at the sling swivel bases. I can't tell from the picture but if each base has two screws that hold the base in place I believe the stock was made by the Winchester custom shop and the stock is original to the rifle. An original stock would have had a steel buttplate. Again, I can't see the buttplate in your picture. The second rifle was made in 1954. BW

robertham1
February 27, 2012, 12:43 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/a6cd889e-c0a6-356e.jpg
Both have rubber recoil pads.

sage5907
February 27, 2012, 12:56 PM
Robert, the monte carlo stock with the raised comb didn't appear until 1951 so it shouldn't appear on your super grade and your stocks do not have the raised cheek pieces. I can't tell from the pictures but do your stocks have small cheek pieces. As to the recoil pads they were installed later. When an original stock is cut for a recoil pad it reduces the value of the stock. I think the recoil pads installed by Winchester were red in color. BW

robertham1
February 27, 2012, 01:02 PM
I'm confident that it has been restocked.

My original question is whether the rifle is a super grade as I have heard of fakes. It is stamped super grade on the floor plate, but are there any other identifying features? Someone in an earlier post mentioned a mark on the bolt. Could you elaborate on what I should be looking for?

robertham1
February 27, 2012, 01:08 PM
Neither have raised cheek pieces. The gentleman who I got the rifles from did his own stocks for a lot of his long guns. As you can see, he is talented. He has a love for fleur de lis, as they were incorporated into many of his stocks.


Shooter- thank you for your willingness to help, I appreciate it.

sage5907
February 27, 2012, 01:31 PM
Robert, if I were you I would remove the barreled action from the stock and look at the bottom of the barrel. I'm not an expert on super grade rifles but I have seen pictures of barrels with an "S" stamped on the bottow near the date stamp. I would think your rifle has a "50" stamped on the bottom of the barrel indicating the year the barrel was made. The recoil lug on the bottom of the receiver could also have an "S" stamped on it. An engined tuned bolt body, extractor and follower (polished with little swirls) was also used on super grades but I don't know if the practice was used as early as 1950. BW

sage5907
February 27, 2012, 02:13 PM
Robert, I found a reference that shows the word "Super" stamped on the bottom of super grade barrels near the date stamp. The stamp was used to identify the super grade barrels when the assemblier was selecting a barrel to assemble a super grade rifle. Also, as I said before, the letter "S" was stamped on the bottom of the recoil lug. BW

Horsemany
February 27, 2012, 08:42 PM
I agree. Every Supergrade I've owned was marked "SUPER" next to the year stamp on bottom of barrel. Also stamped with "S" on the bottom of recoil lug. I've heard they weren't all marked but I've never seen one that wasn't.

Rembrandt
February 27, 2012, 09:47 PM
Regarding sling swivels, the model 70 Supergrades and model 52 Sporters used the ones pictured on the right, these were exclusive to Winchesters.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/Img_3796.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/Swivel.jpg

robertham1
February 27, 2012, 11:35 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/a6cd889e-59a2-8b66.jpg

:(

Gordon
February 27, 2012, 11:42 PM
Like I said rechamber that drop dead beautiful rifle for .300 Weatherby and you will own the best!

sage5907
February 28, 2012, 09:57 AM
I've looked at pre 64 Model 70 Winchesters in 300 H&H at gun shows and have thought many times about buying one. I like the 26 inch barrel length and that this cartridge is one of the most efficient 300 magnum cartridges on the market. According to the reloading manuals it will handle the 165 and or 180 grain bullets at almost the same velocity as a 300 Winchester magnum and when using IMR 4350 it will do it with 5 grains less powder. I hunt almost entirely with a 30-06 so a 300 H&H would work for me. BW

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