Would it be practical?


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Positivity
February 25, 2012, 01:30 AM
Recently, I was thinking about rifle mechanisms and a design struck me: one that I have found nothing like anywhere else. I will not specify, but if the design is functional and behaves how I think it will, it would create a semi automatic bullpup rifle that would have little to absolutely no recoil, maybe only a slight kick into the shooter's shoulder at most. As stated before, the design sould be bullpup, so it could fit a full size barrel into a compact package. The weapon would be magazine fed and fully ambidexterous. So here is the question: if a near recoiless bullpup rifle were to come out on the market for a reasonable price (~$1500 - $1800), would you purchase it, and what for? Can you think of any applications for it in military and police use, as well as things like three gun shoots, hunting, target shooting, etc.?

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Jorg Nysgerrig
February 25, 2012, 01:32 AM
Where is the recoil going?

Positivity
February 25, 2012, 01:35 AM
The recoil is going to several points along the rifle, hopefully counteracting each other.

allaroundhunter
February 25, 2012, 01:50 AM
What caliber?

.22? Already no recoil.

.223/5.56 NATO? Again, other options are available.

5.7? Already covered.

Now, something like 7.62x51 and higher...you might be getting somewhere

Positivity
February 25, 2012, 01:59 AM
I was thinking right around 7.62x51, and possibly a few cartridges of similar size.

allaroundhunter
February 25, 2012, 02:03 AM
In that caliber, I do not see it being used in any military or police role. But there are not many niches left to fill in either of those groups. For hunting, I would love a more compact rifle for maneuvering, so I could definitely see that as a viable option if the design worked.

Competition-wise, I don't see it gaining popularity. The AR owns 3-gun competition, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Swami
February 25, 2012, 02:04 AM
To maximize the effectiveness and practicality of the design, in my opinion the prototype should be based around a platform where normally the high recoil would make it a more prohibitive weapon. As Allaroundhunter pointed out, it wouldn't be a particularly innovative .22.

A practically recoil-less .308+ ... now you have my attention.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
February 25, 2012, 02:16 AM
Already been done. I'll try to find the weapon I am remembering (can't remember the name or where the hell it was invented, damn old age). Basic design was based around a 7.62x51 NATO. The recoil was absorbed through a linkage system that had an "elbow" sort of contraption where the magazine normally would be. It absorbs a great amount of recoil and with the "elbow" focusing the recoil energy downward, it reduced muzzle rise a significant amount.

Positivity
February 25, 2012, 02:27 AM
That description you made there, FreedomFighter, sounds very similar ( But not the same. ) to what I thought of. If you could, please find that design. I would be very interested in comparing it to what I have thought of, and seeing if my design is actually original, or merely two people coming up with the same idea.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
February 25, 2012, 02:37 AM
I remember seeing it on that Future Weapons T.V. show I believe. Saw the guy hit full auto on it and it looked like it was just as easy to handle as an M4. I was pretty darn impressed as I have handled a few 7.62's on full fun time and even a man of my size and strength found it very difficult to maintain control. I'll hit my T.V. show website and see if they have the Future Weapons online and see if I can track it down tomorrow. Burning DVD's for the Grandbaby and Daughter (Daughters B-Day is Monday but having her little party tomorrow) so I don't have resource to do video and conversion at the moment. I'll get on it in the morning for you though as I am curious now too (damnit)

Edit: Curiosity got the best of me. The one I saw on Future Weapons was the Kriss Sub Machine Gun in .45ACP. I saw another one VERY similar to the Kriss that was chambered in 7.62 NATO but I can't for the life of me remember what I saw it on. The design was almost identical.

Vaarok
February 25, 2012, 09:47 AM
The Skorpion pistol also uses an angular linkage to help reduce recoil.

berettaprofessor
February 25, 2012, 10:11 AM
It might have reduced "felt" recoil, but, boys, you can't beat physics. If there are gasses and a bullet coming out the front end, bounce it around all you want inside, but there'll be some recoil out the back.

caveat; I suppose you might have enough parts deflecting around to lose some of the recoil energy to friction, but that would mean, ultimately, a weapon that became pretty warm when you shot it. Energy is conserved.

BronsonPage
February 25, 2012, 11:38 AM
You can use up energy with all kinds of extra motion inside the gun, but if the bullet and gases go straight out the front, the exact amount of momentum is going to move the gun straight back. Mass times velocity of the bullet, etc., equals the mass times velocity of the gun. You canít fight old Isaac.

allaroundhunter
February 25, 2012, 12:59 PM
You can use up energy with all kinds of extra motion inside the gun, but if the bullet and gases go straight out the front, the exact amount of momentum is going to move the gun straight back. Mass times velocity of the bullet, etc., equals the mass times velocity of the gun. You canít fight old Isaac.

Yes, but it can be dispersed to the point that it isn't felt very much. Trying to do it with a .308 caliber rifle could lead to quite a cumbersome design, but I suppose it is possible.

XM855
February 25, 2012, 03:02 PM
Is the trigger going to suck?

rcmodel
February 25, 2012, 04:21 PM
Sounds like the KRISS action, which redirects recoil in a different direction.

http://www.kriss-tdi.com/products/technology-overview.html

http://www.kriss-tdi.com/products/kriss-smg-45-acp.html

rc

Vaarok
February 25, 2012, 07:09 PM
And just for sake of throwing it out there, the Nikonov AN-94 assault rifle has the whole action slide backwards inside an outer shell during burst-fire.

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