People question guns as a motive for moving


PDA






natedog
February 11, 2004, 07:59 PM
I've told a few of my friends that I'm hopefully going to move out of California to avoid the bad gun climate (in addition to high property taxes, housing, gas, etc.) I've gotten many different replies, but most are in the direction of "Why in the hell would you leave hear just for GUNS?" or "Why don't you move to Alaska, then you could shoot all you want and be alone and no one will bother you". I usually respond by saying (to the golfers) "What if your state banned the posession of drivers and irons, and just allowed you putters to play golf with? Would you want to stay? I view guns in the same way- it's my favorite hobby, and I'm almost considered a fringe outlaw by it being so".

If you enjoyed reading about "People question guns as a motive for moving" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
JBP
February 11, 2004, 08:12 PM
All of your reasons for moving out of the PRK are the reasons I give my wife for not moving to the PRK when I retire. She lived in Southern California for 10 years and loves the weather (& so do I) but I can't justify one positive against all the negatives. We've visited retirement communities is gun friendly Florida and Arizona and will be down in Texas in April.

Unisaw
February 11, 2004, 08:15 PM
natedog,

It makes perfect sense to me. I turned down a job offer because it required relocation to NJ. Instead, I moved to Washington State which, despite the liberal reputation of Seattle, actually has very good gun laws. Now, I can't imagine what I was thinking in even considering living in NJ. Talk about a self-inflicted wound!

Zundfolge
February 11, 2004, 08:59 PM
Gun laws are a very basic barometer of freedom.

If an area has strong gun control, you can bet they have other laws designed to reduce your freedom and increase your dependency on mama government.

So moving "for guns" isn't what you're doing ... its moving "for freedom".



But even if you could care less about other freedoms, moving "for guns" isn't all that wierd ... I live in Colorado. Do you realise how many people move here "for skiing"? If you can't participate in the sport you love where you live, you gotta move to where you can.

Unisaw
February 11, 2004, 09:16 PM
Zundfolge,

You could not be more correct. After researching the NJ gun laws, I looked at the ordinances of the town I probably would have lived in. The town actually requires residents to get a permit to prune their shrubs! I'll be damned if I will allow government or anyone else to approve/disapprove every aspect of my life. Why would anyone in their right mind surrender that kind of power?

444
February 11, 2004, 09:24 PM
I agree with Zundfolge.
I was once asked by a young lady how I chose political candidates to vote for. I said that I based it pretty much on their gun platform. She said that she thought this was a very narrow viewpoint. I went on to explain that their view on guns pretty much indicates their view on personal freedom, self reliance and a whole lot of other issues that were important to me. That is just my own rough gauge. There are few, if any, places that have strict gun laws that are also not nanny states.

Hot brass
February 11, 2004, 09:33 PM
I am stuck:(

Standing Wolf
February 11, 2004, 09:55 PM
Three of the main reasons I left the People's Republic of California a year and a half ago to return to the United States were the losses of my First, Second, and Fourth Amendment civil rights.

My only regret is that I didn't do it years sooner than I did.

stevelyn
February 11, 2004, 10:39 PM
Personal freedom and guns in particular are the reasons I chose to live in Alaska. When I retire, I'm moving to an unincorporated rural area outside the reaches of even any of the borough governments. Some place where only the SOA has jurisdiction, but has neither the resources, time or inclination to screw with me. I don't have to put up with local ordinances, zoning, property taxes, homeowners covenants or any other such garbage. And my neighbors live a fur piece down the road out of sight and sound. Oh yeah, I don't paticularly care for the road to be paved.

Hkmp5sd
February 11, 2004, 11:06 PM
Gun laws were one of the primary reasons I didn't choose to live in Hawaii after being discharged from the navy. I gave it a great deal of consideration because it is a great place to live, but I was already tired of having most of my firearms being stored at my parents house and the others locked up in the base armory or on the boat. Divorced parents have better visitation rights than I did with my guns. The kicker was no machineguns.

Abe
February 11, 2004, 11:19 PM
I agree with Zundfolge and 444, a government or candidates position on guns is a good rough gauge of where they are likely to come down on a whole host of other issues related to my freedom and their desire to be my nanny. :fire:

natedog, among all the other reasons you cited to leave The PRK, guns would cap it for me as well.

- Abe

7.62FullMetalJacket
February 11, 2004, 11:20 PM
Another one for "gun rights = freedom." When I left the PRK I received a farewell speeding ticket (moving like my a$$ was on fire). "So, where are you headed in such a hurry?" "Over yon border."

I feel like I traversed the underground railroad herding along the EBRs which must be registered to be legal (in PRK). Now they see the light of day. And much less of a nanny state.

In some jurisdictions you must apply for a permit to install a dishwasher. Is that a public safety issue? Not unless the city is going to repair MY water damage.

BowStreetRunner
February 11, 2004, 11:23 PM
Zundfolge did get it right
gun laws can be used as a basic level of government respect of citizens or in some cases, serfs
BSR

whm1974
February 11, 2004, 11:28 PM
In some jurisdictions you must apply for a permit to install a dishwasher. Is that a public safety issue? Not unless the city is going to repair MY water damage.


If you brought the dishwasher and installed it yourself how is that jurisdictiont going to know about it?

On another note there is some truth that less gun control a state(or city) has the more freer it is

Bill MEadows

7.62FullMetalJacket
February 11, 2004, 11:37 PM
How about this one. I installed an evil wood fence without a permit . My neighbor did the same about one month later. He received a citation, fine, and a PERMIT. And they measured the nail line, the number of fasteners, and pretty much required a rebuild - for his safety, of course.

HunterGatherer
February 12, 2004, 12:43 AM
What Zundfolge said.

Zundfolge
February 12, 2004, 12:49 AM
Zundfolge,

You could not be more correct.
I agree with Zundfolge.
I agree with Zundfolge
Zundfolge did get it right
What Zundfolge said.


Jeebus ... this could go to a guy's head :neener:

Tamara
February 12, 2004, 01:32 AM
I look at it this way: Say you were moving to a state that had a law saying that you had to sell all your black tee-shirts before you moved there, but you could keep your brown ones. If they have a high-profile law that inane, what other legal land mines might be lurking in the state code? :uhoh:

TarpleyG
February 12, 2004, 08:44 AM
natedog,

That has to be one of the best examples I have ever heard. I'll have to remember that one.


Tamara,

I like your example as well...

GT

Brian Dale
February 12, 2004, 10:10 AM
Thanks, natedog; good analogy.

whm1974 — It isn't dishwashers where I live, but they monitor water usage in municipalities near me. IIRC, in the city of Raleigh, the town of Cary and the Democratic Socialist People's Republics of Chapel Hill and Carrboro, NC, they've talked about issuing tickets to people during summer water restrictions, alleging that people "must have been" watering lawns based on water flow through their meters, patterns of water usage in previous years and the "average" usage for households in the area. The "busybody quotient" gets pretty high around here, sometimes.

Right now, it's February 12th. The early morning sleet has turned to rain outside, it was in the 50s yesterday and it's supposed to be warmer again tomorrow. I just checked the weather where many of my relatives live: 9 degrees F, 12 degrees F; the 34 degrees F that I've got here is a lot better for me. I can handle shoveling snow once a year; more than that gets tedious. I love the smell of blooming flowers smacking me in the face as I drive along the country roads around here on spring evenings. Still, the "busybody quotient" here (and the ability to visit family more easily) has/have me thinking of moving back out west.

Hey, Zundfolge — when you're right, you're right.

Langenator
February 12, 2004, 10:36 AM
I grew up in California-lived there for 22 years, until I graduated college and the Army sent me to Germany by way of Ft Benning. When I left California, I was pretty sure I'd never go back, simply because I couldn't afford to. It's just to damn expensive to live there.

Since then, I've become totally certain that I will never return there, at least on a permenent basis (my parents still live there, so I visit occasionally.) The reasons keep piling up. The high cost of housing and just about everything else. The high taxes. The fact that seemingly every conceivable human activity is controlled by a group of wacko tree huggers who want us all to live in wigwams in the forest and be at the total mercy of Mother Nature. Because of the total sacrifice of personal property rights in the name of The Greater Good. And the main beam in my big House of Greivances with my native state is the complete lack of respect for the Second Amendment.

I'll go back to see the Giants play (why does the most beautiful park in baseball have to be in the cesspool that is SF?), and to visit my family on holidays. But that's it.

armoredman
February 12, 2004, 11:13 AM
This is why I love living in AZ - lots of room for good gun people!:D

geekWithA.45
February 12, 2004, 11:30 AM
We found the house, won the bidding war, and I'm filling in the mortgage papers about a foot away.

We don't get into it with the sheeple, they're beyond hope. We just tell them we need a bigger house, and are sick of the taxes, corruption, and over regulation, and they all seem to understand.

The gunnies on the other hand are entirely sympathetic, except for a few "stand and fight" types.

As others have mentioned, gun rights aren't a "narrow concern", they are a broad one. They are a tripwire issue that are a decent litmus test as to where the locals have staked the borders of freedom.

If you're only "free" to do safe, innocuous, innoffensive, lowest common denominator things, you're not free. You're decieved.

7.62FullMetalJacket
February 12, 2004, 11:54 AM
Geek,

I hope you do not lose all that fire after the move :D

Freedom and liberty have a way of calming the beast :)

TallPine
February 12, 2004, 12:13 PM
live in wigwams in the forest and be at the total mercy of Mother Nature.
The problem is that if you actually tried to do that in most places, you would be in trouble with any number of laws, such as sewer code violations, child abuse (no TV and running water), and probably not having a permit to drive on and off the main road from/to your property.

It's amazing to me how many people say they have moved from California to Colorado for the freedom, and I moved from Colorado to Montana for the same reason. It seems to me you can't hardly breathe without a permit down there anymore, even in rural or mountain areas. ("Want to build a shed...? First you must supply a comprehensive 30-year plan of every structure that you want to put on your land. Anything not on the plan will not be permitted in the future.") That is actually the policy now in the western slope county that I moved from.

Up here you can buy 20 acres, live in a tent and use an outhouse if you want.

And if I want to build a barn or a garage, I just go get the materials and do it.

Elmer Snerd
February 12, 2004, 12:22 PM
If you're only "free" to do safe, innocuous, innoffensive, lowest common denominator things, you're not free. You're decieved. I liiiike this. We should use this as a rallying cry for everyone with politically incorrect hobbies.


Now where is that bumper sticker thread? ;)

2nd Amendment
February 12, 2004, 12:58 PM
This is why I have remained in this little town in Indiana. No Zoning, no building codes, no permits, no inspectors, nada. Buy a piece of land and do what you want, hunt, fish, shoot... It may not be perfect but it's better than most other places I've been.

The Tourist
February 12, 2004, 01:08 PM
My wife and I intend to retire to Idaho, Wyoming or South Dakota. She's a speech therapist and I'm a credit manager, we've had enough stress in our lives. A few less people and a lot fewer laws would be welcomed. And the taxes are lower than in Wisconsin.

Of course, the taxes are lower ANYWHERE than in Wisconsin.

TallPine
February 12, 2004, 01:08 PM
This is why I have remained in this little town in Indiana. No Zoning, no building codes, no permits, no inspectors, nada.
So even some states back east aren't as bad as Colorado ...?

I don't know why it is that way in CO - must have something to do with all the Californians moving in .... :neener:

I had a buddy in CO that was living in a camper trailer on his own land in a rural mountain area. He actually had the sheriff deputies come out and hassle him about not having running water and and a septic system.

grnzbra
February 12, 2004, 01:18 PM
Congratulations, Geek,
PPPPPPPlease take me with you.

Skunkabilly
February 12, 2004, 01:28 PM
It's not about guns, it's about freedom.

If I mention Arizona, Tejas, Tennessee or New Hampshire, they say, but the weather's better in California, and there are no Asians out there :rolleyes:

Maybe I'll have a pet skunk some day.

2nd Amendment
February 12, 2004, 01:57 PM
Tallpine, this is specifically Green Co. Go up to Bloomington and it's zoning hell. Sullivan Co, on the other side of us, is zoning hell redux. Still overall as far as I know no place, in southern Indiana at least, gets too meddlesome on anything beyond building codes.

artherd
February 13, 2004, 06:06 PM
CA is a funny place.

Yes, there are idoitic laws. Specifically a ????ty-??? AW ban that makes little to no sense.


However, the laws in CA are very strange.

Semi-auto AR-15s are outright banned, but the state is MAY-ISSUE on MG permits!

Yes, you can own an AR, but it HAS to be fully-automatic. (which means it costs $10grand. And you have to know somebody to actually get the permit issued. Basically, you have to be rich, and powerful.)

Is it disgusting? Of course it is. Is it discrimination? Hell yes! Is it all insurrmountable? Hardly.

Just about everything around here, there are legal ways around it if you are more creative/sneaky/clever than the next guy. Local ordinance prohibits a fence taller than 4 feet? Build a ????ing hill.

Especially in the more rural areas, people are as free here as they are anywhere else in the US. It is easy to rip on CA, as it is a cultural and economic center. In many ways, for better or sometimes worse, it's 10 years ahead of most other areas I have visited. Yes, we produce our share of liberals. But don't make the mistake of assuming that is all. There are a lot of very smart and elloquent people in CA that share views similar to ours.




I was born in California. My home is where the Redwoods meat the Pacific Coast.

If it's silly to leave for guns, then maybe it's ultra-silly to stay for water. So be it as far as I'm concerned.

Anywhere someone can start grabing your guns. I'm not the running type. I'm the type up on the hill with a .338 Lapua Magnum.

If I run, I will only die tired.

Bill Hook
February 13, 2004, 06:56 PM
For my part, I'd better be able to find a job if I was inclined to move to Kommiefornia, PRNJ, New Yawk, MD, or New England. However, I'm not so inclined and gun laws are a big part of the reason why.

whm1974
February 15, 2004, 06:27 PM
whm1974 — It isn't dishwashers where I live, but they monitor water usage in municipalities near me. IIRC, in the city of Raleigh, the town of Cary and the Democratic Socialist People's Republics of Chapel Hill and Carrboro, NC, they've talked about issuing tickets to people during summer water restrictions, alleging that people "must have been" watering lawns based on water flow through their meters, patterns of water usage in previous years and the "average" usage for households in the area. The "busybody quotient" gets pretty high around here, sometimes.

I wonder how hard it would be to fight the tickets. Alleging that people "must have been" watering their lawns and proofing it are two diffencfit things. People could always claim that they shower three times a day in the summer.

This is why I love living in AZ - lots of room for good gun people!

I've heard that from friends who used to live there.

If you're only "free" to do safe, innocuous, innoffensive, lowest common denominator things, you're not free. You're decieved.

This is very true. Owner a gun nowdays is one of the most offenive things you can do. It's also making a bold statement. Good luck where you moved too.

Bill Meadows

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
February 15, 2004, 08:04 PM
Skunky, you can always move to DFW. There are lots of Asians here. Some of them are really cute, hot Asian chicks, too. The more the merrier. Good grazing for an urbane, sophisticated young man of distinction such as yourself.

BTW, if you open up a tactical driving school in DFW it'd really be a moneymaker. :neener:

Regards,
Rabbit.

Archie
February 15, 2004, 08:11 PM
"Why in the hell would you leave hear just for GUNS?"These are the same mindless left-wing ninnies who think they are moderates. Nor do they have a clue about making up their own mind.

I'm a transplant. I grew up in Oregon and "fell" into California some years ago and just haven't been able to get out quite yet. People living in California who think it so wonderful are typically shallow and short-sighted.

Colorado and Oregon are examples of states being infiltrated by Californians. So why are people moving from the paradise of California to cold and rainy places like Colorado and Oregon? Mostly from inflation, high taxes and the social waste they themselves engendered. Essetially, they've fouled their nest and and now fleeing. But they now want to foul the new nest.

Between 2.5 and 4.5 years from now, I will be able to leave California. I will be gone. It will have been a long time in going, but I'll be a long time gone.

I was born in California. My home is where the Redwoods meat the Pacific Coast.Okay, I can understand this too. And you are right that not all Californians are far-left wingnuts who read the little Red Book of Mao before bedtime.

Still, the state assembly is controlled by the left, in turn elected by the voters of PDSR CA. If we had a populace that could identify the qualitative differences between fecal matter and peanut butter, the state would be a decent place to live.

Mulliga
February 15, 2004, 08:13 PM
May I suggest Florida?

At first (before I started researching and looking hard at the RKBA), when I heard about all the background checks and hoops people have to jump through to carry concealed, I thought Florida was a backwater state. Now, obviously, I know that Florida is actually one of the most gun-friendly states in the USA. I couldn't believe some states didn't even ALLOW concealed carry!

Good peaceable journey laws, no permit to buy or have firearms, concealed carry with reciprocity to many other states, no stupid laws requiring people to have trigger locks or "safe storage."

I'd never even consider moving to NJ or CA now. And I'd always check what the Brady Bunch has to say about a state - the lower the grade they give, the more free it is :D .

wardog
February 15, 2004, 08:57 PM
I went over the wall in 1992.

Yeah, I guess I'm one of the dreaded people who moved from CA to CO. But you know what? Back in CA we all used to complain about everyone moving to CA, from everywhere else.

The people I met coming in to CA? Usually Liberal.
The people escaping? Usually Conservative.

cslinger
February 15, 2004, 09:03 PM
If I mention Arizona, Tejas, Tennessee or New Hampshire, they say, but the weather's better in California, and there are no Asians out there

Skunk, you are not Asian, you are a gun nut and you are welcome here anytime you like. Seems to me like people get so hung up on prejudices and minorities but us gun owner rarely do because in short we are all a minority that is frequently beaten down by the masses.

Once again, you are welcome any time.......unless of course you are allergic to dogs that is. :D

Chris

MeekandMild
February 15, 2004, 09:51 PM
Skunk, I'd suggest you go to the video store and check out a DVD of an old Roy Rogers movie. While watching it you will notice something familiar about his facial features. Gosh darn, he looks "Asian", even though he was a guitarist and not a banjoist. :D

You are as much of a 'native' American as anybody else here. So move out of that cesspool to the deep south where you belong.

eXe
February 16, 2004, 12:12 AM
Heck, guns was one of the reasons I left California 3 months ago for Nevada. There were other reasons such as being able to BUY a home instead of renting. Agree with the comments about freedom.

Now that I am all settled in here, gotta say it takes a while to get used to being in a free state but I love it.

Calumus
February 16, 2004, 01:10 AM
The Tourist said "Of course, the taxes are lower ANYWHERE than in Wisconsin."
Try the PRNJ, worst taxes in the country. One of the reasons I'll be heading 8 miles west come spring. Pa is a "shall issue" state, car insurance is half what it costs in Jersey. rent will be 2/3 of Jersey's. There isn't a speed trap every 3 miles (I'm not kidding, on a holiday weekend here you'll pass a trap every 5 minutes. We have a new cop in my town that issued 3 tickets for 36 in a 35 zone in a week, of course that friday she got pulled over by a state trooper doing 95 in that same zone while responding to a "car died on the side of the road ;) " Cigarettes are $15 cheaper a carton (yes I smoke, I'm pro 2nd amendment, I drive a gas guzzler way too fast, I have a big mean looking dog that was bred to hunt bears, hogs, and deer, and I tell off color jokes. Oh yeah, I'm going to hell) I can find NO reason why I should stay in jersey. If it were for work, who cares about another 10 miles when it already takes you an hour to go 35 miles during a light rush hour. All I can say is that I wish I hadn't stayed this long. Cheers,
Shawn

TXBera
February 16, 2004, 02:19 AM
Mebbe i'm out into left field with this one, if so tell me.

What if you moved out of an "enlightened" state and once settled into your new home state, sent letters to your former elected officials and cited that the reason you moved out of their state was because of them trampling your 2nd Amdendment rights?

Would that be kosher?

whm1974
February 16, 2004, 09:44 AM
What if you moved out of an "enlightened" state and once settled into your new home state, sent letters to your former elected officials and cited that the reason you moved out of their state was because of them trampling your 2nd Amdendment rights?

I would Imagen that the officials would say "good ridance"

Bill Meadows

wingman
February 16, 2004, 10:11 AM
For someone who has lived a lot of years I believe as our population
increases it will get worse in all states not just calif. Not sure how to
slow the tide, or if it can be stopped but more people, more laws,
less freedom...:(

spartacus2002
February 16, 2004, 10:20 AM
Virginia ain't too bad for gun laws. Shall-issue, allows MG ownership, has a rabid proCCW group (www.vcdl.org) that beats the **** out of our legislators to relax the gun laws every session, if a purchase permit is required then it's a local not a state thing. One-handgun-a-month is irritating, but I think if you are a volume purchaser you can get exemptions.

I was raised in North Carolina. For a southern redneck state ( and I say that with pride), it is pretty restrictive when it comes to RKBA. Must get a permit from the sheriff to purchase a handgun; CCW laws are very restrictive on where you can carry (i.e., If approached by police, must volunteer to officer that you are carrying, etc.); etc.

My next state of residence will be picked on the basis of RKBA issues for sure.

Tamara
February 16, 2004, 10:24 AM
IIRC, in the city of Raleigh, the town of Cary and the Democratic Socialist People's Republics of Chapel Hill and Carrboro, NC, they've talked about issuing tickets to people during summer water restrictions, alleging that people "must have been" watering lawns based on water flow through their meters, patterns of water usage in previous years and the "average" usage for households in the area. The "busybody quotient" gets pretty high around here, sometimes.

There's a reason that those of us in GA and TN refer to NC as "The California Of The South." ;)

When travelling from K-town to Disgusta, I'll happily tack an hour to my drive and brave Atlanta traffic to avoid the unmarked traffic enforcement units and artificially low speed limits of NC. :uhoh:

Arc Angel
February 16, 2004, 11:49 AM
:rolleyes: :) :o :p :D I feel sooo .... good, right now! Five years ago I decided to join my firearm loving friends on the other side of the Delaware River and bailed out of the PRNJ for the Keystone State! I have to admit, it does get, kind 'a heavy carrying all these guns around all day long; maybe, only two or three pistols would be enough? Yeah, but after an entire lifetime of being deprived of my second amendment rights by the New Jersey Sate Legislature ... Naaa! :neener: :neener: :neener:

geekWithA.45
February 16, 2004, 12:41 PM
What if you moved out of an "enlightened" state and once settled into your new home state, sent letters to your former elected officials and cited that the reason you moved out of their state was because of them trampling your 2nd Amdendment rights? Would that be kosher?

Who cares if it's kosher or not, you have no idea how much I look forward to writing the "so long, gun bigots, and thanks for all the fish" letter.

I'm going to take my time with that one.


If they want to write it off as "good riddance to another blood soaked gun maniac", well, I can't stop that. Humans have an infinite capacity for self deception.

What I can do is direct their attention to all the personal, property and corporate taxes I've paid over the years and tell them to kiss it goodbye.

{smootch}


and grnzbra, thanks!

If you enjoyed reading about "People question guns as a motive for moving" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!