Looking for a Low cost HD and possibly CCW Hand gun.


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johnsack2001
February 28, 2012, 09:38 AM
Currently I am looking for something a bit more respectable than my "Frying Pan" (The name my wife gave to my Hi-Point) but with out having to save 3 or 4 pay checks. I have been looking at replacing it since I got it about 2 years ago. Not because it is unreliable but because the one time anyone I knew saw me at the range they almost took their foot off laughing.

Currently I have been looking at the following all the prices do include California sales tax shipping and DROS.

Ruger LC9 9mm $410
Bersa thunder 380 $360
S&W 9VE or 40VE $480
Ruger p97 45acp $380
Accu-Tek AT-380 II $305

Please do not suggest Glocks or specialty calibers. I just do not like the Glock "style" for lack of a better term. And I don't want to be made to order ammo online. I like to buy my ammo the day I go out to practice not dragging my locking ammo case with me.

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JTQ
February 28, 2012, 09:57 AM
I realize prices are regional, but the S&W Sigma, in my area, is usually around $300ish and the Ruger P97 has been out of production for several years and I would think that pistol is also over priced by a bit. However, I'd be more willing to pay $380 for a lightly used P97 than $480 for a new Sigma which seems way out of line to me. Both have a pretty good reputation for reliability.

.45 ACP will be more expensive than the other calibers, so you may want to think about that if you are pinching penny's right now.

johnsack2001
February 28, 2012, 10:05 AM
AH I forgot to note the Ruger p97 and the bersa 380 were both local. :o I had thought about the Sigma and the M&P but they really felt like tuned up Glocks. (No offence to anyone who owns or would like to own one) :neener: plus the only ones I could find locally (Eureka, ca) were in the range of $575-600 before Dros and tax. :cuss:

almherdfan
February 28, 2012, 10:07 AM
If you are satisfied with the Hi-Point, I surely wouldn't give a hoot what the range snobs said.

If want want HD/CCW then Kel Tec PF9, P11 or P3AT are fine pistols and under $300, maybe $250.

The Ruger P-series are excellant values, under $300/9mm, more for the .45ACP, but they are less CCW, more HD/Range guns. I CCW my P95, but prefer my P3AT on most days.

The Bersa Thunder is a great pistol and should be about $275.00 new.

There are many options, shop around locally and using the net.

springfield30-06
February 28, 2012, 10:09 AM
Currently I am looking for something a bit more respectable than my "Frying Pan" (The name my wife gave to my Hi-Point) but with out having to save 3 or 4 pay checks. I have been looking at replacing it since I got it about 2 years ago. Not because it is unreliable but because the one time anyone I knew saw me at the range they almost took their foot off laughing.

First of all for any firearm that is reliable and you are comfortable with, I wouldn't pay attention to how other people think it looks. Since you have been looking to replace it, and I'm assuming that you have a 9mm and already have some 9mm ammunition, I'd go with the S&W 9VE or Ruger LC9 from your list.

Are these actual gun shop prices or are they MSRP prices that you've checked over the internet? Since you're thinking about the LC9, check out the Kel-Tec PF-9 as well. In general it's a similar gun at a slightly lower price.

easyg
February 28, 2012, 10:18 AM
How about the Ruger SR9c...


http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n165/allenXdog/HPIM7193.jpg

johnsack2001
February 28, 2012, 10:18 AM
I had originally looked into the Kel-Tec HGs for a budget "Tool box" gun but I live in California and they do not like Kel-Tec At All

And the Hi-Point while concealable despite my smaller frame (5'7" about 150 lbs) It is Very heavy despite HPs specs stating it only weighs 29oz mine comes in at 33.2oz empty and it seems like I cannot find any parts or "upgrades" for it. I was lucky to find a Fobus holster for it but I have to go through HP to get parts at all and I have to wait about 8 days to get them. like the last time I put +P+ rounds through it and bent the firing pin and sheared the extractor.

almherdfan
February 28, 2012, 10:21 AM
The Ruger SR9c is great for HD/CCW/Range, but will run about $400. It's worth it though.

johnsack2001
February 28, 2012, 10:27 AM
I like the look of that SR9c especially the fact it has a manual safety. I just wish California could show pictures of the legal versions of the models. :cuss:

johnsack2001
February 28, 2012, 10:30 AM
One odd thing I noticed while looking around here for a decent gun is the 9mm and the 45 are about the same price for a box of ammo. While the 380 and 40 are slightly more and the 10mm and the 357 sig are far more expensive.

wickedsprint
February 28, 2012, 10:31 AM
Since you mentioned you live in california, Id opt for something that was designed for only 10 rds from the get go, that way you're not paying a size penalty.

You're doing yourself a disservice by not considering the glock/m&p based on your stated requirements. They're cheap and they work. The sigmas are an especially great deal.

johnsack2001
February 28, 2012, 10:36 AM
Another HG a friend brought up is a Walther P99 in .40 S&W that is sitting at a gun shop used for $499 with 3 spare mags. The shop owner says hes not sure how many rounds have been through it but at least 10k.

almherdfan
February 28, 2012, 10:42 AM
9mm & .45 ACP may be close for SD ammo. Range ammo is another story. 9mm is significantly cheaper. That's something to consider if you plan on a lot of fun/practice.

johnsack2001
February 28, 2012, 10:46 AM
Well after looking for a bit and calling around locally I can only find 1 place that has a SR9 or even the c at all. Buds gun shop dot com. and to get that one without the second mag (the spare mag that ships is a 17rnd) will cost in the range of $510 not bad at all.
And also on the issue of ammo I still have a Cra* Ton of my "old" ammo from other guns from when we moved over from AZ. so I currently have SD loads for .45 ACP, 9MM, 380 auto, .38 spec, .357 magnum, .22 LR and mag, 410 shot, and a few .454 Casul.

johnsack2001
February 28, 2012, 10:55 AM
I don't mean to be picky... wait yes I do! I don't want to just go grab the first HG I see for under $700. I am trying to be reasonable or else I would have forsaken my wife's low cost sticking point and grabbed the first Desert eagle .44 or Springfield XD 45 I could get my mitts on.

Edit: I don't want to come off like a child throwing a tantrum. I am on a gun forum after all and I am trying to get opinions from all walks of life. And as the old addage goes "Opinions are like A** Holes every-ones got them." Especially me.

JTQ
February 28, 2012, 11:29 AM
johnsack2001 wrote,
I had thought about the Sigma and the M&P but they really felt like tuned up Glocks.
you also wrote,
Currently I have been looking at the following all the prices do include California sales tax shipping and DROS.

Ruger LC9 9mm $410
Bersa thunder 380 $360
S&W 9VE or 40VE $480
Ruger p97 45acp $380
Accu-Tek AT-380 II $305
Just to be clear, the S&W 9VE or 40VE are the Sigma.

JTQ
February 28, 2012, 11:36 AM
Generally, in the low cost/reliable 9MM (or .40S&W where available) range from well respected makers, you'll find

Ruger P95 http://www.impactguns.com/ruger-p95-pr-9mm-wrail-15-rd-mags-blue-13015-736676130153.aspx

Ruger SR9/SR40 http://www.impactguns.com/ruger-sr9-9mm-41in-barrel-adjustable-sights-picatinny-rail-stainless-slide-171-3301-736676033010.aspx

S&W Sigma (9VE & 40VE) http://www.impactguns.com/smith-and-wesson-sw9ve-sigma-9mm-blackstainless-16rd-220025-022188114232.aspx

Sig P2022 http://www.impactguns.com/sig-sp2022-9mm-hi-contrast-sights-15rd-mags-e2022-9-b-798681306695.aspx

Lee D
February 28, 2012, 11:40 AM
go over to rugerforum.net and carefully read the threads about the SR pistols/LC9s and ALL the issues theyre having with them. NO WAY id ever buy one.

the older P series are quality pistols. i wouldnt hesitate to buy a P95 if i wanted a budget 9mm

zxcvbob
February 28, 2012, 11:40 AM
I recently saw 4" S&W Model 64's for sale online for $350. I was really tempted to buy one, but I'd just spent all my gun money for a while the week before. I don't remember if they were at CDNN or SouthernOhioGuns or J&G Sales.

I carry a heavy 4" K-frame revolver loaded with .38 Special +P (Ruger Security Six.) I believe a 64 would be the same thing but a little lighter and with a lot nicer trigger, and .38 Special only.

David E
February 28, 2012, 01:08 PM
A Hi-Point owner dissing a Glock's "style".........ROFLMAO!!!

Lee D
February 28, 2012, 01:31 PM
people dont seem to realize that Glocks arent about style, theyre about simplicity and function....if you want style, Taurus makes plenty of "pimped out" JUNK that i wouldnt trust to save my life. an unstylish Glock has never failed to go bang when i pulled the trigger.

NG VI
February 28, 2012, 05:30 PM
Ruger LC9 9mm $410
Bersa thunder 380 $360
S&W 9VE or 40VE $480


Those prices are ridiculous, well the Bersa might not be too high, but the Sigma is insane. Like, twice what they cost everywhere else. And it isn't a refined Glock, it's a Glock with a stainless slide and terrible trigger with an unfortunate hinge in the middle of it. They do have a nice feel to their grips though.

I don't know if they are California-legal, but CDNN and some other places have the S&W 5906 in the $300 range, those are superb pistols. A little heavy for carry, but then you've got the Hi-Point for that.

I'd also suggest keeping the Hi-Point, they are reliable, have a lifetime no questions asked warranty, and yours has never given you any problems. It may be an ugly little overweight bullet launcher, but you won't make anything off it so you might as well hang on to it.


Since you mentioned you live in california, Id opt for something that was designed for only 10 rds from the get go, that way you're not paying a size penalty.

You're doing yourself a disservice by not considering the glock/m&p based on your stated requirements. They're cheap and they work. The sigmas are an especially great deal.


I agree 100% with this post, all of it. An M&P or Glock (which I like better myself) fits what you are looking for perfectly, and should cost the same as the Sigma you have listed at $500. They are better guns in a better caliber than many of the ones you have posted, and spare parts and holsters are ubiquitous for them. It would be a major mistake to exclude the Glock 19 or 26 from consideration because you 'don't like their style'.

It's a gun, not a dress.

I just wish California could show pictures of the legal versions of the models.

What does this even mean? California-legal models should look exactly the same.

leadcounsel
February 28, 2012, 06:10 PM
Welcome to THR! A wealth of experience and knowledge.

I'd recommend the following:

Sig Sauer P6. $400 at Wideners of Tennessee. Got one, it's fantastic. Thin profile (the same as a G19), great double and single action pistol, reliable and accurate. Fits the ********** approved 10 round magazine law. The Sig P6 has 8 round mags. Really an ideal pistol for carry where you are limited on mag capacity.

http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=700|1012|1026

If it's just for home defense the SW 5906 is also a great gun. I was surprised at how nice it was. Grips were damaged, but that's a cheap fix.

If you like 1911s, pick up a Rock Island or similar $450 compact. I think they have 7 or 8 round mags stock, but you can get 10 round mags - If I were limited to mag capacity, I'd carry a .45.

No offense, but you seem both new-ish to guns and also stubborn.

Glocks, in my opinion, are the cats meow. There are many great guns out there, but Glocks just simply work. They are just pure simplicity. And they've been copied heavily by M&P, XD, Steyr, Sigma, etc. for a reason. Don't discount the awesome G23 (.40) or G19 (9x19). You may not like their "style" but there is a reason that they are soooo heavily favored for concealed carry, pistol competitions, etc. They are just awesome tools if you are serious about concealed carry or home defense. So, my advice is, don't rule out Glocks (or M&P, XD, Steyr, etc.) because you don't like their "style." I suspect respectfully you don't have enough experience and are basing your believe on Hollywood.

Also, if you're on a budget, I'd suggest buying ammo in bulk and online. Cuts the cost significantly.

johnsack2001
February 28, 2012, 06:30 PM
What does this even mean? California-legal models should look exactly the same.
Unfortunately California seems to love separating HGs by even the smallest differences in some cases especially color or whether a given gun is left or right handed or even ambi.

I had not realized the 40VE was the sigma. :o We do have a shop locally that has the 40 but not the 9. The slides do seem to be a tad bit more comfortable. And the M&Ps Locally are in the $635-650 area after fees and taxes.

I wish I could find a S&W 5906, but no luck at any of my local shops nor on the 2 sites I trust and have dealt with before, Buds gun shop and midwest hunters outlet. I did find some on gunbroker but its so much like eBay and some of these guys only give you 3 days to look over the weapon before you can return it and others none. And with cali requiring a 10 day hold I would not get to shoot before I could return it. But they do come to only around $450.

I realized there may be some confusion. All the guns I list the prices on are INCLUDING: DROS, Tax, and Shipping. A fine example is the S&W 5906 it is $365 before fees on GR.

johnsack2001
February 28, 2012, 06:37 PM
Oh and as for this:
A Hi-Point owner dissing a Glock's "style".........ROFLMAO!!!

At least the HP is slightly rounded in profile and when I run out of my Cali legal 10 rounds I still have a very effective club that the maker will repair or replace while only charging me shipping there.

I do realize the Glock 30 is a fine example of a rounded Glock but even that is just the foward portion of the slide. My HP may resemble a common mason brick but to me that is more appealing than a Chock Block.

wlewisiii
February 28, 2012, 06:45 PM
Given your constraints, I'd strongly recommend the Ruger P95. 9mm is significantly cheaper, even for expensive SD ammo, than the others and the P series is a solid reliable arm that will give you what you're looking for. I was intending to get a new P95 the day I found my used Glock 19 instead. For you, the Ruger seems the all around best.

leadcounsel
February 28, 2012, 07:12 PM
I wish I could find a S&W 5906, but no luck at any of my local shops nor on the 2 sites I trust and have dealt with before, Buds gun shop and midwest hunters outlet. I did find some on gunbroker but its so much like eBay and some of these guys only give you 3 days to look over the weapon before you can return it and others none. And with cali requiring a 10 day hold I would not get to shoot before I could return it. But they do come to only around $450.

Once again, look at Wideners. They are reputable and have the 5906 for $275 + shipping. I bought 3 of them. All three - the metal was in 90-95%. Grips were admittedly ruined but that's a $20 fix.

http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=700|1012|1026

DINLONG
February 28, 2012, 07:21 PM
You could also take a look at the FN FNP-9. The Kali version comes with 3 10 round mags. It is a fine size for CC, but will still be fun to shoot if you go to the range (about the size of a Glock 19). You should be able to pick one up for under $400.

Looks are a personal preference, but I think the gun is beautiful. With so many great choices on the market why should you buy a gun you don't love? (And yes that includes looks)

They are not on the approved gun roster for Mass or I would have one already. I plan on picking one up as soon as I move to Maine in April though :-)

Sent via smoke signal.

Lee D
February 28, 2012, 07:54 PM
well, while your "rounded in profile" HiPoint :rolleyes: is at the factory getting fixed, my Glocks will be running strong. i have a G17 that may not be attractive in your eyes,
but it has 10s of thousands of rounds thru it without even being cleaned thoroughly. i oil the rails, clean the extractor, breech face and feed ramp, put it back together and we're back to shooting. let me know when a HiPoint can run hard like that.

this particular 17 has been a bit of a guinea pig.:D

David E
February 28, 2012, 09:25 PM
I have to go through HP to get parts at all and I have to wait about 8 days to get them. like the last time I put +P+ rounds through it and bent the firing pin and sheared the extractor.

Well, a Glock can shoot +P+ all day and all night without bending the firing pin or shearing the extractor.

You get what you pay for.

montanaoffroader
February 28, 2012, 09:32 PM
Have you stopped in at Grundman's in Rio Dell? They used to have a pretty decent selection on hand, but it's been a few years since I was in there.

Last time I was down there, most of the places I used to buy from were gone. Bucksport was still there, and Schafer's in Henderson Center had a decent selection of reloading stuff.

Also, CDNN has the S&W 5906 and 6906 models on page 29 of their current catalog.

johnsack2001
February 29, 2012, 12:50 AM
Well I just got home from work and tried to look at Wideners. I was greeted by the message No Sales of these items to California, D.C., New York, Cooke County IL, Maryland or Massachusetts. Orders Placed to these areas are subject to Cancellation Without Notice I ill look at the CDNN catalog in a bit after I eat .

johnsack2001
February 29, 2012, 01:31 AM
Any clue when CDNN opens their phone line in the morning? Most of the handguns I looked at were the cali legal versions but ship with Hi-cap mags.

GLOOB
February 29, 2012, 03:40 AM
Please do not suggest Glocks or specialty calibers. I just do not like the Glock "style" for lack of a better term.
So, you want to ditch the Hi-Point cuz your friend thinks it's not cool. And you won't get a Glock because you don't like the style. California. Go figure. :)

I would go with Sigma, P95, or FNX. I thought you couldn't CC in California unless you were a politician or a movie star? Good to know that's not true. :)

5906? Well, sure I guess, but spare parts aren't going to be around forever.

johnsack2001
February 29, 2012, 06:49 AM
Well tar and feather me... :cuss: I did say replace. The hi-point wont go away, It will be delegated to defense of my wife's "Office".

And as much as it bugs me I have been looking into Glocks this morning... :banghead: And well If I am going with a Glock :what: I am going to have to go with .45ACP or .357 Sig those ballistics are what I need to look at not the slide.
But On that thought... Is there a replacement slide possibly that is maybe a little more rounded?

Also If I got a OD version Is there a way without voiding the warranty to match the slide color to the reciever? :confused:

You may very well be turning me to the darkside but I will chose my own color robe. :evil:

johnsack2001
February 29, 2012, 09:06 AM
Alright so I have looked and am kinda interested in what I am seeing as far as Glock offerings in regards to size:caliber ratio.

I am looking at the following Glock Models:
27 .40 S&W
30 .45 ACP
33 .357 sig
36 .45 ACP

Anyone have some experience with any of these?

David E
February 29, 2012, 10:01 AM
The .357 Sig isn't what you want, given your stated parameters.

The .45 probably isn't the best choice for you, either, but it doesn't violate your caliber guideline.

Glock makes 3 models in .45 acp: the 21, 30 and 36. I own all three and I'd get the 21-SF above the others, followed by the 30-SF. The 36, to me, doesn't offer enough over the 23 or 19 to buy it ahead of either of those alternatives.

Since you're now considering Glox, also consider the Smith and Wesson M&P and the Springfield XD or XDm

NG VI
February 29, 2012, 10:08 AM
I had a 27, bought it because it was the smallest .40 that appeared to deliver everything needed from a pistol.

At the time, I too disliked Glocks for no legitimate reason, but once I spent some time on the 27, I really enjoyed it and even started to appreciate the aesthetic of their design. It's simple, the reason it's got a square slide is because they use a minimal design that doesn't require a great oversized slide, it lacks a bunch of fiddly bits that I've grown to dislike as my tastes have matured.

The 26/27/33/39 are extremely accurate little pistols, as reliable as can be hoped for, decent triggers, and they are very trim for what they are.

I wouldn't worry about the 'power' difference between the different service calibers either, one or the other may deliver a little more energy or velocity or bullet mass, but all of them, from 9mm to .45 ACP and GAP have basically identical effect on human targets. Firing characteristics and cost are the bigger difference now.

johnsack2001
February 29, 2012, 10:43 AM
Alright So the M&P ($890 after fees) is out for ccw being just about 8 inches but does look good for HD but is the quality enough to justify a difference of $120 over the GLOCK 30SF and approx $170 over a SA XD 40 or 9 or $350 more than the sigma?

I'm sorry I keep fixating on the larger calibers but they tend to have less over penetration for HD. As for the 357 sig I am starting to question its viability as a friend say shes putting them through both sides of a car and Ballistic dummies with HP rounds. :what: With that kind of punch there would defiantly be liability issues.

johnsack2001
February 29, 2012, 01:35 PM
Well I am damned glad a friend had Glock 30 for me to try. :cuss: Damn things grip was a finger and a half too small with the flat bottom mags she says comes with it. That much kick NEEDS at least 3 full fingers for the grip. When I was looking at overall height I didnt think about how much grip I needed.

But while I was at it I got to shoot the SA XD 9mm and I have to admit that was down right pleasurable. :D Anyone know how the 40 stacks recoil wise? Hers was in the vault so I couldn't put rounds on paper today. :p

David E
February 29, 2012, 01:56 PM
$890 for an M&P? How much are those fees you keep mentioning? There are at least 3 versions of the .45 M&P. Since you have an arbitrary size guideline, one of the 3 should meet your nebulous requirement.
(proper holsters minimize worries about the size and weight of most guns)

My G30 came with two 10 rd mags with finger extension. With those, it feels and shoots great. Still, if I could just have one Glock .45 acp (not .45 GAP, per your ammo availability stipulation). I'd get the 21-SF in a heart beat.

The .40 caliber XD holds 12+1, while the XDm holds 16+1, if capacity matters. Both handle and shoot well. The XD isn't the most accurate gun, however.

NG VI
February 29, 2012, 01:59 PM
I'm sorry I keep fixating on the larger calibers but they tend to have less over penetration for HD.

You need to spend some time reading up on terminal ballistics. All of the service calibers expand well and penetrate about exactly the same with any of the well-designed current production JHPs available.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#.45ACP

That's quite a bit of reference material. Give it some time.

Did you actually shoot the 30? The small Glocks and some other manufacturer's small offerings do have a shorter grip than you would think you need, but the pinky is basically worthless. Try putting a few boxes downrange, since you've got a friend with a 30 already, and see how it actually works.

I know the two finger grip on the 27 threw me off in a bad way, but before long I was shooting it better than my other pistols and every time I tried a grip lengthening magazine extension it was pinchy and didn't feel right.

The small Glocks also feel a little odd because of the aggressive hump of the backstrap, but it serves to lock the gun into your palm quite solidly and makes it difficult to get a bad grip on the gun.

johnsack2001
February 29, 2012, 02:03 PM
The M&P locally is $789.99 before $25 Dros and 8.25% Tax comes with 1 spare mag and a speed loader. The lowest Glock locally is 699.99 before fees and the XD 9 and 40 are 649.99 but they come with the spare mag the 2 mag holder speed loader and a holster.

NG VI
February 29, 2012, 02:07 PM
$800 before or after fees for an ordinary M&P is insane. Oh and I edited my last post, there's some more input in there.

Spend the money on ammunition to try out pistols you may want that your friends already own, it's well worth it, especially in such a draconian market.

NG VI
February 29, 2012, 02:09 PM
The holster is fine for gentle range use, but you will end up buying a better one for carry or suffering until you learn better, do the Glock and M&Ps not come with two magazines? Retailer may be removing magazines from factory boxes and selling them separately if that's the case, manufacturer may not be too happy about that...

johnsack2001
February 29, 2012, 02:13 PM
Yes I fired the Glock. :confused: The recoil while manageable is not something I would want to have "surprise" me in a moments notice in a HD situation.

As it stands I may go with the XD 9 and spend a little bit exrta to get a set of tijicons for it. But like with a car I want to get every angle and avoid a gold plated turd.

Most of the Glocks only come with 1 because they are shipping with "Hi-Cap" mags the 27 30 and 33 have 2 but they are flush fitting mags

leadcounsel
February 29, 2012, 02:36 PM
$800 for a $500 gun!!! And No 10+ capacity mags. No concealed carry.

Last time I was in California I couldn't wait to get out of that state! I felt like a defenseless sheep. Gas was twice as expensive too. Rant over.

Original title says you're looking for a 'possible home defense or CCW gun.' Where/when are you able to CCW? You mean out of state with an out of state non resident conceal carry permit?

If you don't intend on CCW, then you're open to a whole new larger class of handgun. Much more accurate and easy to shoot. Look at the larger sizes of the guns you've suggested, like the full size XD, MP, or Glock for instance.

I agree that 9mm or .40 is the way to go. You'll spend less on ammo, which means more range practice time.

johnsack2001
February 29, 2012, 02:37 PM
I see what I did. :facepalm: I shot the model 30 but was looking at the 27.

metalart
February 29, 2012, 02:41 PM
sig sp2022 is 379 at acadamy this week :) not small but manageable for ccw!

David E
February 29, 2012, 02:51 PM
Yes I fired the Glock. The recoil while manageable is not something I would want to have "surprise" me in a moments notice in a HD situation.


Hence the reason we practice.

GLOOB
February 29, 2012, 02:55 PM
If you enjoy shooting at the range, the Glock is the one to beat. I am now up to 15 magazines for my 9mm Glocks. At only 23.00 a piece, it's very affordable to load up. Esp nice if you are only allowed to put 10 rounds in each one. More shooting, less loading = more fun!

Personally, I'm a fan of the caliber, but I'm not a fan of the G27. It doesn't handle 40SW recoil as well as it could, and the recoil spring does not last long, at all, with full power loads. Mine's toast after just 2-3k rounds. That sounds like a lot, but when you're not sure when the next double-feed might occur, it's not very reassuring. It's about as finicky as a Glock can be. Which is to say not very, but it's not as foolproof as most Glocks in terms of maintenance and reliability.

The G30 ought to be a great choice, in my reckoning. 10 rds is right at the California limit. And 2 fingers is all you need for any gun, esp a soft recoiling 45 ACP. I guarantee this gun shoots softer than a G27. I'd personally go with either a G26 or a G19 for the cost of ammo and lower recoil. But if 45 and 9mm really cost the same to you and you have a 10 rd limit either way, then I guess there's not as much incentive to go small.

Advantages of an M&P? The big differences are the grip and the manual safety option. Most people think the Glock trigger is better, though. I think the Glock grips are one of the best in the business for recoil control, but YMMV.

johnsack2001
February 29, 2012, 07:43 PM
Well I took my wife to the range to see which she would be more comfortable with... and her opinion is the Hi-point... I don't understand quite why she like it but I think I will be giving it to her permanently.

As for my self I am narrowing it down to the Glock 26, the Px4 storm 9mm, and my current favorite the SA XD9.

David E
February 29, 2012, 08:48 PM
Of those three, the XD-9 in an instant.

THEN, you and your wife take a gun class. I suspect she won't want that Hi-Point after the class, or even thru lunch.

It's easy to ignore or bypass shortcomings, even serious ones, when you can totally control the use of a given item.

If a car doesn't have 3rd or 4th gear and overheats in 20 minutes, that's fine if you never go over 30 mph for more than 19 minutes at a time. You may even accuse others of being "car snobs" if they insist on owning cars with 3rd, 4th and sometimes even 5th gear. Deep down, you know your car should have all the gears, but you've gotten by so far without them....until something happens that requires you to go faster than 30 mph or for longer than 19 minutes. But until that happens, you may think you got the transportation angle covered.

TenRingGuns.com
February 29, 2012, 09:00 PM
Hi John

Hands down, buy a revolver. Trust me on this.

For concealed carry, you need something reliable. The last thing you need to have happen in a gun fight is a malfunction. Many things can go wrong with a semi-auto, most common being failure to feed, fire, eject, extract, etc.

I've been carrying my SW 442, a .38 special, 5-shot, j-frame, hammer-less revolver for years now. I began carrying it when I was on the department when I carried it as my BUG; ask any cop what they carry as their back up gun and they'll more than likely tell you it's a compact revolver.

I carry it in an Uncle Mikes pocket holster in my right front pocket. It's light weight, concealable, reliable, accurate (ten ring out to 25+ yards), and cheap. Perhaps the perfect CC gun.

The 442/642's are hard to come by right now. I recommend the Taurus 850 "CIA," a virtual clone that'll work just a great, also comes with a better warranty from the factory.

http://i43.tinypic.com/mskfpv.jpg

montanaoffroader
February 29, 2012, 09:01 PM
You could do a lot worse than an XD9. Two of my nephews own XD9s, and they have proven to be accurate and reliable. I have fired a few hundred rounds through each of them with no failures, and they were quite comfortable to shoot as well.

I'm not sure exactly how many rounds my nephews have put through them, but it's somewhere in the thousands with no malfunctions other than a couple of misfires due to a bad batch of ammo.

Good luck with your search. :)

leadcounsel
February 29, 2012, 09:16 PM
For concealed carry, you need something reliable. The last thing you need to have happen in a gun fight is a malfunction. Many things can go wrong with a semi-auto, most common being failure to feed, fire, eject, extract, etc.

I love revolvers, and have several. Even carried one sometimes. But to imply that they are more reliable than semi-autos just isn't always true.

My Glocks, after countless thousand round, years of shooting, through many models have never malfunctioned due to the gun. They are just stone cold reliable. And frankly they are superior to the revolver in nearly every aspect, including reloads.

The only areas that revolvers really shine is larger calibers (think .357/.44mag) and "contact shots..." which are probably rare.

mgregg85
February 29, 2012, 10:17 PM
CDNN Has S&W 5906's for $299 and 6906's for $339.

johnsack2001
March 1, 2012, 03:12 AM
I talked to one CDNN service person who wished to remain un-named that they cannot remove parts of a firearm including but not limited to mags and threaded barrels even if the weapon would otherwise be state legal.

guyfromohio
March 1, 2012, 04:14 AM
I'm a Glock fan, but I would choose the XD9sc over the Glock 26. I sold my 26 because it didn't stay in my hand.... hard to shoot well. I tried a friend's xdsc yesterday for several hundred rounds and it proved to be incredibly accurate and "shootable".

Glock 19 would be my pick over either though.

Autolycus
March 1, 2012, 05:11 AM
I would look at a Glock 19 as well. It is the ideal CCW handgun in my opinion.

johnsack2001
March 1, 2012, 06:19 AM
I just got back from work... The Wife says "No revolvers in my house again!" Maybe after I get my new gun I will give her the Hi-point and slowly talk up something along the lines of a LCR as a back-up. maybe calf strapped.

johnsack2001
March 1, 2012, 06:49 AM
Got an e-mail from a friend of mine while I was at work and Old west shootery (the local indoor range/training center/and gun shop) Has a New XD 9 in right now with the gear kit for $625 after fees. ($550 before fees.)

I realize some guys can hide full size rifle on their person. That is not me I weigh 173 at 5'7" 32 inch waist 39 inch chest (measurements taken today) I have had some difficulty breaking up the print of some of the guns I have looked at in the clothes I typically wear. I dont mind wearing a coat and a shoulder holster or small of the back "sleeve" but people around here tend to have their heaters up in the range of 85-90 deg. where most of my coats are not practical. Thus my turn down to 9mm where most guns shave off about an inch from their big brothers.

guyfromohio
March 1, 2012, 08:16 AM
Although more pricey, my sig 239 conceals very well in the crossbreed. You would not print. Actually, most guns hide well in a crossbreed or a similar style holster.

JTQ
March 1, 2012, 08:47 AM
It is the ideal CCW handgun in my opinion.
The OP is from California. Can he carry concealed?

johnsack2001
March 1, 2012, 08:52 AM
CCW is a non issue for me if that is the question. I am in Humboldt county suffice to say it is an "almost shall" issue and as long as you remain current they rarely deny a re-up. I've only heard of 1 and that was an extreme case of immaturity on the person in question.

dannyr3_8
March 1, 2012, 09:30 AM
cz 75 sa would be the perfect gun for you;)

Loosedhorse
March 1, 2012, 09:39 AM
S&W 9VE or 40VE $480Wow. I live in MA, and I've never seen one actually priced that high.

Right now, my LGS has a used SW9VE (2 mags) going for $225--and I bet the guy'd take $180...:evil:

zxcvbob
March 1, 2012, 11:49 AM
I just got back from work... The Wife says "No revolvers in my house again!" Maybe after I get my new gun I will give her the Hi-point and slowly talk up something along the lines of a LCR as a back-up. maybe calf strapped.

I understand Wife doesn't want a revolver and I respect that, but I hope the "not in my house!" comment was just an attempt at humor. (I have jokes fall flat too; it happens)

It is also your house, isn't it?

NG VI
March 1, 2012, 12:16 PM
The Wife says "No revolvers in my house again!"

She doesn't have an issue with guns in the house, but does not want revolvers in the house? Did you do something wrong back in Arizona?

Thus my turn down to 9mm where most guns shave off about an inch from their big brothers.

9mm, .40, .357 Sig, and .45 GAP pistols all use the same frame sizes, and all except the GAP (in Glocks anyway, the XD is the only other pistol I know of that got chambered in .45 GAP) use the same sized slides as well. An inch off what? The grip length, slide length, width?

There are a LOT of excellent reasons to pick a 9mm pistol over one of the other service calibers, especially if you don't have as much time or money to go shooting as you'd like. It's probably the most efficient defense cartridge out there, cheap range ammo, lowest cost defense ammo, it's everywhere, best magazine capacity for a given size of pistol, or in California's case, the smallest possible pistol that stays within the magazine capacity limit.

All of the service calibers have basically identical performance, there have been tens of millions of dollars, probably more, put into bullet design over the last twenty-plus years to learn how to make bullets as consistent as possible, and the end result is that basically no matter what caliber you're shooting, as long as you're running a relatively current JHP they will all deliver the same results.

Shooting someone in the gut won't deliver a stop, no matter what you're shooting, unless they voluntarily decide they don't want to be shot anymore, only good hits count with any bullet.

jcwit
March 1, 2012, 12:16 PM
Hands down, buy a revolver. Trust me on this.

For concealed carry, you need something reliable. The last thing you need to have happen in a gun fight is a malfunction. Many things can go wrong with a semi-auto, most common being failure to feed, fire, eject, extract, etc.

Boy, I guess our military has it all wrong.

johnsack2001
March 1, 2012, 12:21 PM
2 things happened to make her dislike revolvers. One was me being a moron trying to shoot a S&W 500 one handed. The other is the only time we were held up without a SD weapon on hand and the guy shattered the left side of my face with a 44mag. over the fact our wallets had no cash.

And as for the size differences I was looking at the overall length in general not within any specific family of guns.

gp911
March 1, 2012, 12:37 PM
Other options in 9mm: S&W 3913 (used of course, good guns though), Walther PPS, police surplus Sigs...

A lot of people like Glock 30s with a grip extension. You asked about .40 recoil, it happens quickly so it is frequently described as "snappy". Most new shooters find it more unpleasant than .45acp in my experience.

The 5906 was/is a good gun as well.

My 2 cents...

johnsack2001
March 1, 2012, 12:47 PM
The lady smith does look nice but no local shops have it nor does anyone i know have one I can get a better feel for. Unfortunately the PPS is a Cali no-go and the 5906 is proving difficult to track down with 10 round cali mags.

Another thing to point out no matter what gun I get now I can always get another down the road. you know after the California mandated 30 days between gun purchases.

Wahoo95
March 1, 2012, 12:48 PM
Hard to beat the S&W SD Series which can be found under $400

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

NG VI
March 1, 2012, 12:57 PM
Many things can go wrong with a semi-auto, most common being failure to feed, fire, eject, extract, etc.

And those failures generally take under a second to clear. The beautiful thing about revolvers is that a failure to fire because of a dud primer can be remediated by pulling the trigger again on the next chamber, but the beautiful thing about a failure to fire in an auto is that racking the slide takes a second and clears greater than 90% of malfunctions.

And I think modern autos have beyond proven themselves combat reliable. It's not an insulin pump or a pacemaker, if you feed it cheap ammunition on the range and it chokes on an out of spec round once every five hundred or thousand rounds or more, it doesn't really indicate any lack of reliability on the weapon's part, as long as it feeds good quality ammunition properly.

johnsack2001
March 1, 2012, 01:01 PM
S&W SD Series looks good but Cali is a pain. I wish I could just up and relocate to Idaho or Vermont with out having to worry about a new job and rent and all that fun stuff.

johnsack2001
March 1, 2012, 01:10 PM
Come now lets not do the Revolver vs Semi auto dance they both have their up sides.

S&Wfan
March 4, 2012, 01:55 AM
I think you are ruling out your very, very best option on a concealable handgun by ruling out revolvers!

Oh well, to each his own. One day, if you truly get into guns and become proficient with them, you might understand.

johnsack2001
March 4, 2012, 04:51 AM
Lol I think you missed that it is my wife who does not want a revolver otherwise I would have picked up a 686-6 Plus that was going for $272 after dros and tax. But had I brought it home well... suffice to say she is VERY adamant about it.

But on the positive side of things I have the option of the 2 following locally: A Springfield XD9 with gear kit (I already have a ccw sleeve holster that fits it) or a Rock Island 5" barrel 1911 "clone" with a 5.5 lb trigger but only one mag. Both coming in at around $700 after dros, tax, and some break in ammo (plus at least 1 spare mag for the RI)

Lee D
March 4, 2012, 03:37 PM
the day my wife tells me what gun i can and cant have i might as well put on a pair of her panties. revolvers rock

wyohome
March 4, 2012, 05:15 PM
Without reading the whole thread, 4 ounces is a lot of weight, you give a damn about people laughing at you, and your wife will not let you buy a revolver. I would be shopping in the sport store alright, but in the department that sells balls.

kayak-man
March 4, 2012, 07:09 PM
Haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if any of this is repetitive/already covered.

I have a Ruger SR9, and absolutely love it. I have around 3,000 rounds through it, with one malfunction (that was probably part operator error). I have no problem concealing it, and actually carry it more often than my S&W 642 and my Ruger LCP, so the SR9c should be pretty easy to carry.

I have no problems with the trigger on mine, but I hear that the SR9c trigger is even better.

Just curious, have you looked into revolvers at all? (Sorry if this opens up a whole other can of worms)

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

NG VI
March 4, 2012, 07:11 PM
Passing up a 686 for under $300 is insane.

There are marriage counselors who can help you and your wife put the incident where you were beaten with a revolver behind you, but having a blanket ban on one specific type of object doesn't make any sense, especially when it means you're passing up deals of a lifetime on one of the best revolvers made and the alternative is paying twice as much for a Sigma or three times as much for an XD.

For the record I owned a 9VE and loved it. Not the best trigger, and the frame material didn't feel as high-quality as the material of the USP or Glocks I've owned, but it was a very good gun and the grip had a good shape to it.

johnsack2001
March 4, 2012, 08:34 PM
Meh, I have gotten over the incident she hasn't. But to put it bluntly it is OUR house WE are married and all decisions are agreed on or they do not pass. But that is the nature of finding my wife to be my equal.

I have looked at a couple of cheaper HGs notably the Bersa Thunder 380 and the S&W 40VE but after putting a couple hundred rounds through them I could not think to my self "This is a handgun I could trust my life to with out hesitation"

As for getting the Ruger P97 I simply missed that deal and sure I could order most of the guns I have been looking at online and get them for a lower cost but the final point of the matter is the major places I am looking at locally allow me to take down and examine all parts of the firearm I am buying.

orionengnr
March 4, 2012, 09:28 PM
think you are ruling out your very, very best option on a concealable handgun by ruling out revolvers!
Oh well, to each his own. One day, if you truly get into guns and become proficient with them, you might understand.
That is a condescending attiude unworthy of THR. :rolleyes:

I own and carry both semi auto pistols and revolvers, and would never presume to tell someone else that their choice of platform was incorrect, especially due to their alleged lack of knowledge or proficiency.

There are a lot of skilled and experienced shooters who opt for one or the other. Doesn't mean any of them are right or wrong.

skifast
March 5, 2012, 08:14 PM
I carry a Fn FNX9. High capacity, light weight, excellent shooting gun.

If the gun is going to fill both a HD and CCW role, I would not consider small low capacity guns.

stealth
March 5, 2012, 09:53 PM
G26.

This coming from somebody who hated "Combat Tupperware" as a beginner, I came around and tried one and -for me- is more useful at everything.

Theres a dude around THR who was an EMT during katrina, sweat on his guns everyday no chance to clean them. Said there were two weapons he was impressed with for their rust prevention when all the others were icky ..S&W 442 and G26. Scorepoint

It works, its tough.

Whomever was praising the merits of 9mm over the others were right.

Some here are bashing OP and his manhood, this is called the highroad so lets pretend to know what that means and keep our useless negative slander to ourselves. Hell I think hes a nutjob for living in ********** but I don't say that for all to see do I? ... crap


j/k (mostly [notreally])

Captjon
March 5, 2012, 10:22 PM
I absolutely love my Ruger KP95PR. It shoots great and is very comfortable in my Galco COP OWB holster for daily carry. It was around $325 in Sonoma Co.
I am shopping for a new handgun and get irritated when most internet shops wont ship to CA due to our absurd regulations and double checking every FFL every day!.

Anyway, I cannot say enough good stuff about the P95. You can check out Suron Enterprises in Santa Rosa at suronenterprises dot com. Ron will take good care of you!

johnsack2001
March 7, 2012, 10:12 PM
Well Ive got it solid down between the Rock island 1911 A1 and the Springfield Armory XD9 service. $850 out the door for either of them. Includes case, 5 mags, mag holders, holster(Fobus Paddle style), and 2 boxes of 100 count ammo.

I was looking at a comparable Glock both the 17 and the 19 with the same set of things which came to $1120. I am still trying to figure out why this particular dealer has XDs at a lower cost than his Glocks.

Edit: BTW I plan to put the paperwork in on one or the other on Friday.

stealth
March 8, 2012, 08:45 PM
Well Ive got it solid down between the Rock island 1911 A1 and the Springfield Armory XD9 service. $850 out the door for either of them. Includes case, 5 mags, mag holders, holster(Fobus Paddle style), and 2 boxes of 100 count ammo.

I was looking at a comparable Glock both the 17 and the 19 with the same set of things which came to $1120. I am still trying to figure out why this particular dealer has XDs at a lower cost than his Glocks.

Edit: BTW I plan to put the paperwork in on one or the other on Friday.
My first handgun was a RIA 5" GI, was 400$ new OTD. It stove piped a few times with fmj, the park rubbed off on the grip as well. Other than that it was nic to have an olde tyme 1911, felt right. Just wasnt the workhorse I needed it to be.

Again, G26 (or M&Pc or XDsc(m?). I'd score them probably in that order, but i'd feel fine about any of them. Handle them if you can. =)

jackpinesavages
March 9, 2012, 06:32 AM
Howdy John, if you like to buy your ammo on day of shooting, your list pretty much whittles down to 9mm; .45 and .380 will NOT be plentiful in the next 24 months.

A used LE turn in Glock 17/19 in your best bet at less than $400. Yeah, you said "no Glocks" but that's your best option for your budget. SHoot it, live with it brotha...

NG VI
March 9, 2012, 01:14 PM
Try finding a new dealer. Sounds like your guy is gouging the hell out of you because it's California and he can.

OARNGESI
March 9, 2012, 01:38 PM
why is 45 and 380 suppose to dissapear jackpinesavages

Pietro Beretta
March 9, 2012, 02:47 PM
GO FOR THE XD over the 1911!

From a person who has owned both, the XD wins vs a Colt Government XSE 1911 (1991) for out of the box reliability. Sure my Colt is reliable now after a trip back to the factory, but out of the box the XD was the winner.

With a 1911, if you want an after market part, often it has to bee fitted to your gun, there are not many "drop in" items.

I know your pain living in California -- Moving to Oregon and buying a firearm for the first time here was sooo awesome. No little handgun safety certificate card, no one a month rule, no waiting period - instant background check, Face to Face transactions are legal, I can actually get a concealed handgun license.

johnsack2001
March 9, 2012, 04:00 PM
@ jack LE around here don't seem to turn in their duty weapons. I know one for sure purchased theirs when they retired.

@NG I looked all through out the area that I could get to reasonably and came up with only 2 options the place I chose or the shooting range I go to either one marks up stuff due to California's mandated 20 year holding policy on all weapon sales.

Anyway I have decided to go with the SA XD9. The RI 1911 has some nice features and I may pick it up next month or some time in the near future but to get it where I would like it to be will cost a bit of money (new grips, hammer, trigger ect.) Besides Its a gun for me that I feel I can rely on for HD and its light and slim enough I can CC in even some of my tighter pants with out printing.

zxcvbob
March 9, 2012, 04:04 PM
Have you looked at surplus CZ-82's? Really nice guns for about $200. I assume you'd have to buy 10-round CZ-83 magazines for it to be legal there.

raubvogel
March 9, 2012, 07:10 PM
zxcvbob, funny you mentioned the CZ-82. I was going to suggest a P-64

snatale42
March 9, 2012, 07:34 PM
Dude, you can get Sigma's for less than $300 brand new! I bought mine at a show for $260! As a former Sigma AND SD (now M&P) owner, try to go for the SD series. There still cheap but better triggers than the Sigmas. You need to check out budsgunshop.com great deals. Just make sure to order them with the cripple mags since your in kommiefornia. Most guns have come down in price last year or so. Unless your trying to buy a tricked out 1911, there only about $150 difference from cheap ripoffs vs the real thing. Don't forget about Taurus. Outside the Sigma, If i was looking for a budget semi, that where I'd be. They look nice, cheap and lifetime warranties.

As far as the Bersa Thunder .380's buds has them now (03/09) for $275 delivered!

johnsack2001
March 9, 2012, 09:47 PM
I got the XD and the extras paid for today and bargained down the price to $726.96 out the door and he hooked me up with a new cleaning kit.

David E
March 10, 2012, 12:07 AM
The XD is a great gun, unlike that price!

Take some classes, buy more magazines and ammo, then have fun.

johnsack2001
March 10, 2012, 01:23 AM
I plan to take the armed guard training course as soon as I can find a day when the trainer is not in a class or at his other job.

Dr.Rob
March 10, 2012, 04:58 AM
Ruger's p series is pretty bomb proof and you found one locally so it is on the CA approved list. It's also attractively priced. That is the one I would gravitate towards.

wickedsprint
March 10, 2012, 08:09 AM
Why are they charging you so much? Like others have mentioned... Budsgunshop is a good barometer for pricing and they have a list of local FFLs in almost every area.

johnsack2001
March 10, 2012, 09:08 AM
We live "Behind the redwood curtain" and as such everything here costs alot more. Just to put it in perspective gas is $4.47 a gallon for regular and Milk is at about $3.70. and the reason they charge so much for incoming transfers is they dont want to get "Stuck" with a gun that Client X ordered. Most are charging about $60+DROS+tax and one is at a scandalous $150+Dros+tax. A couple of them do have "Layaway" programs but you have to repay the Dros fee every month until it is payed off.

Edit: And last but certainly not least prices went up since it is an election year.

NG VI
March 10, 2012, 09:19 AM
What's Dros?

johnsack2001
March 10, 2012, 03:12 PM
Dealer Registry of Sales.

Cali and the ATF require the dealer to copy down all info related to a firearm sales transaction and they must matain the record for 20 years. Failure to do so will cost them their FFL and could lead to prison time.

NG VI
March 10, 2012, 04:06 PM
Every FFL has to maintain records of sales, why do they charge you at all, let alone every month?

Eh, it's a beautiful state at least. Predatory, but beautiful.

johnsack2001
March 10, 2012, 09:16 PM
The Dros has to be current with in the month to pick up the HG.

NG VI
March 11, 2012, 05:28 PM
Right, but why are you being charged per month if the actual transfer doesn't occur until months later? It's a sketchy business practice, first charging customers extra money to do bookkeeping that is an unavoidable condition of their business license, and second charging them repeatedly when the (already shady) fee is charged for a purchase.

They don't have to run your name through the NICS every month you have a gun held on deposit, they only have to actually work when finish paying it off and they transfer it to you. Before that, the gun still legally belongs to them and they don't have to 'do' anything at all besides keep an accurate record of how much you've put towards it.

I know California has odd laws and a small pool of available people willing to deal with the bull relating to a firearms license, but it just seems very predatory to me.

johnsack2001
March 11, 2012, 11:52 PM
I talked with one of the guys that work there. The paying of the Dros each month is 2 fold. One part of it is incase you pay it off early but still after the initial 10 days you will be able to pick it up and secondly is to keep the dros active so one person cannot have multiple firearms able to be picked up on the same day. As for the mark ups he told me that they keep all the weapons at his store in the basement in a vault and they also maintain the weapons. I know it is very preditory but seeing as fewer and fewer people are willing to accept incoming transfers via internet or mail it makes it hard to find reliable HGs. Rifles seem to skate around those issues but still have a 10 day holding period.

Love me some Kommiefornia.

TexasBill
March 12, 2012, 12:56 AM
Thank heavens you didn't get one of those awful Glocks. :evil:

Glock-o-philes don't seem to be able to understand why anyone wouldn't be happy with a Glock. Whether it's "style" or the fact some people find the Glock to be uncomfortable in the hand, they're sure if you just ignore your feelings long enough, you will come to love the Glock.

It's somewhat like the Borg in Star Trek.

stealth
March 13, 2012, 11:26 PM
Thank heavens you didn't get one of those awful Glocks. :evil:

Glock-o-philes don't seem to be able to understand why anyone wouldn't be happy with a Glock. Whether it's "style" or the fact some people find the Glock to be uncomfortable in the hand, they're sure if you just ignore your feelings long enough, you will come to love the Glock.

It's somewhat like the Borg in Star Trek.
I think of the Glock as what to me a gun is after all, a tool. So I dont mind the squaryness, in fact I prefer it. I'm not a Glock fanboy, I like anything that throws a projectile.

I find the flat sides of the grip lets me point straight every time regardless of how crappy my grip is because i rushed the draw. One less thing thing to worry about when fractions of a second count. Some rounder grip guns I have to pay more attention to, as they may be canted slightly before shooting. The XD seems great too.

Personally I don't like the bigger Glocks grip angle (1911 upbringings), but with the G26 its totally different angle & dimension. I'm sure If I had one I could acclimate myself to the G19 as well just fine.

Curious Texasbill, what would you recommend in this case?

Come on, lower your shields. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own, Resistance is futile.
Sincerely,
stealth of 1, Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix MyHouse.

Pietro Beretta
March 15, 2012, 03:00 PM
I know the converstation has gone a different direction, but I still had to give my input (sry guys)


Ok; I have narrowed down my beef with high point to this:

Its a fun plinking gun that feeds FMJ somewhat reliably; some people have had different experiences, mine ftf or stovepipes 1 in maybe 50 rounds, sometimes its 1 in 100 other times not at all.

Hollow points do not work in my high point, again some other people have had different experience.

For a home defense round; you don't want over penetration, a lot of us have neighbors and a pass through can be devastating, your responsible for where the round ends up. Also FMJ leave a smaller wound cavity.

For Home Defense you want a hollow point round; it is designed to expand and stay in your target, it is designed to expand creating a bigger wound cavity and create a more devastating wound.

Since My experience with High point is that they don't like hollow points; I can not in good conscience recommend this for home defense purposes for the reasons stated above.

Otis2
March 27, 2012, 05:57 AM
I've been a Glock fan boi for some time now, love my Glock 19. However, I just picked up a Steyr M9A1 and love it! Probably the best kept secret in handguns today. The trigger pull is awesome and with the low barrel axis and grip angle, muzzle flip is very minimal. Purchased from Robertson Trading Post for $419 plus $10 shipping to my FFL. Don't know as there is a better value available today. Apparently a big arms deal in the middle east fell through, this is how these guns have become available. They are brand new, I highly recommend considering! Pair this with a Tommy Theis IWB holster and you are set to go!

WinThePennant
March 27, 2012, 08:58 PM
I've been a Glock fan boi for some time now, love my Glock 19. However, I just picked up a Steyr M9A1 and love it! Probably the best kept secret in handguns today. The trigger pull is awesome and with the low barrel axis and grip angle, muzzle flip is very minimal. Purchased from Robertson Trading Post for $419 plus $10 shipping to my FFL. Don't know as there is a better value available today. Apparently a big arms deal in the middle east fell through, this is how these guns have become available. They are brand new, I highly recommend considering! Pair this with a Tommy Theis IWB holster and you are set to go!
That Steyr M9A1 looks like a cross between a P250 and a PPQ!

Beentown
March 27, 2012, 10:23 PM
CZ82

toivo
March 28, 2012, 12:35 AM
Those prices are ridiculous, well the Bersa might not be too high, but the Sigma is insane.
At $360, it is high; I paid $235 for a Bersa Thunder .380 at a Gander Mountain sale last year.

CZ82
He doesn't want "specialty" calibers, and I'll bet my bottom dollar it isn't CA approved.

cluznar
April 9, 2012, 05:57 PM
Get a Bersa Thunder .380 or a Ruger SR9c 9mm either are good for carry.

knoxy
April 10, 2012, 12:18 AM
I'll bet my bottom dollar it isn't CA approved.

I'll take that dollar! ;) CZ82 is OK in CA with 10 round mags.

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