NRA


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Cactus Jack Arizona
March 1, 2012, 03:17 AM
Most of you have read my posts on "pro-NRA" threads. I have been adamantly against the NRA for a variety of reasons. Later, while doing more research on the NRA I have found that I was misled on some of the info I was given. I'm still researching other info that had misled me.

Before my research began, I spent my time and effort trying to convey to my parents why I was anti-NRA and why they too should ignore them as well. After about three months, my parents informed me that they had both joined the NRA. Shaking my head, rolling my eyes, and with an "awe geesh" (in the style of Archie Bunker), they continued to explain why they joined.

After it was all said and done, several months later, I found that fate is not without a sense of irony. I received in my mailbox, a few days ago, a letter from the NRA stating that I was now a member. :uhoh: (Go ahead, laugh. Get it out of your system.) That's right, my parents paid for me to have a membership in the NRA. :o So, there it is. I am a NRA member. :cool:

Now, some may ask why I don't just cancel my membership. Like Mr. Miyagi said, "Please, hurt old man feeling".

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OARNGESI
March 1, 2012, 07:05 AM
was all this to say you joined the nra because your parents got you a membership? or did i miss something?

Sav .250
March 1, 2012, 07:34 AM
Good thing your parents know a good thing when they see it............:)

JohnBT
March 1, 2012, 08:17 AM
And the lesson is? Do your research first, before forming an opinion.

kudzu
March 1, 2012, 08:48 AM
The NRA has been rightly criticized for positions it has taken and candidates it has suppported. It seems to have become a self-serving bureaucracy and those in power have structured it and positioned themselves so that changing it will be difficult, at best. There is plenty of fault to be found with the organization.

In spite of that, I still support the NRA and encourage others to do so. If sometimes misguided, it is still the most powerful voice on our side. Our gun rights would be much more compromised today, perhaps non-existent, were it not for the NRA's efforts during the decades it was the only voice on our side.

So, please support the NRA and try to nudge it in the right direction. At least, do not work against it.

Waywatcher
March 1, 2012, 11:02 AM
The thing that annoys me is the constant Chicken Little-ing in their magazines. Every month, gun rights are on the verge of total disaster and there's no hope unless we act now. It's like the boy who cried wolf, I never know when there is a legitimate threat.

jcwit
March 1, 2012, 11:42 AM
Ah Yes, mayhap now you will realize that wisdom comes with age.

Now folks, why do we need to swing this into yet another "bash the NRA" thread.

Smokey Joe
March 1, 2012, 12:49 PM
that the anti's love to hate. As long as the NRA occupies that position, we pro-2A's need to support the NRA.

Sure, it is too big to be agile. Sure, it does some things we don't like. But it's the one Congressmen and Senators listen to, even if they are anti. It's the one with the most members, therefore the most voters, therefore the one with the Big Stick in Washington.

We need to try as much as we can to keep the NRA on course. Meanwhile, let's keep our criticism as much to ourselves and to the NRA directly, as we can. It's good to look united; it's bad to look divided. It's worse yet to BE divided, when we (us pro-2A'ers) have pretty much a common goal--the advancement of responsible firearms use, and the reduction of restrictions to that use.

You want to join some other shooters' group--fine, join that too: All the better. But don't bash the NRA while you do.

AlexanderA
March 1, 2012, 12:57 PM
I still can't get over the fact that the NRA threw machine gun owners under the bus in 1986. I say that even though I'm a life member.

BIGGBAY90
March 1, 2012, 01:01 PM
I bet you don't live in nyc---

Midwest
March 1, 2012, 01:14 PM
I still can't get over the fact that the NRA threw machine gun owners under the bus in 1986. I say that even though I'm a life member.
Some have maintained that the NRA threw NJ gun owners under the bus as well. Some have said they turned their backs on NJ altogether. And I'm not so sure that the NRA did such a good job protecting our rights when the 1968 GCA was proposed either. Others have said the 1968 GCA would have been much worse if it haven't been for the NRA.

Still for what its worth, they are the biggest gun rights lobby out there..for better or worse. There are other organizations out there like Gun Owners Of America and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.

I think the NRA's philosophy for a long time was 'Join the NRA and protect your right to hunt'. That wasn't what the second amendment stands for, it wasn't about ensuring a right to hunt deer or 'sport' shooting. That is where some have said that the organization is out of touch.

I'm neutral when it comes to the NRA, its good to have a National Gun Rights organization. But I wish they were more in touch with some things...

jcwit
March 1, 2012, 01:20 PM
I still can't get over the fact that the NRA threw machine gun owners under the bus in 1986. I say that even though I'm a life member.

What was in the orginal bill that ended up being changed because of NRA actions?

jcwit
March 1, 2012, 01:22 PM
If the NRA and shooting sports and organizations depended only on the hunters it would really be a sorry state of affairs. The NRA saw this coming and changed.

Ryanxia
March 1, 2012, 01:38 PM
Kudzu said it all.

DoubleTapDrew
March 1, 2012, 01:51 PM
I still can't get over the fact that the NRA threw machine gun owners under the bus in 1986. I say that even though I'm a life member.
They thought they could get that part overturned but wanted the FOPA to pass, which it did. They tried to get 922o overturned (Farmer v. Higgins 907 F.2d 1041 (11th Cir. 1990) (You might recognize the name of the Plaintiff-Apellee lawyer in Farmer - Stephen Halbrook
So I don't know if the NRA "threw machine gun owners the bus" is entirely accurate. Senator Hughes threw machine gun owners under the bus. He thought it might be enough to stop the FOPA but was wrong.

The NRA is evolving constantly. They are now much more favorable towards black rifles, concealed carry, and other genres. It's with the new members that these changes are coming about. Remember how Zumbo got hammered for his anti-AR stance, and changed his mind? There are a lot of Fudds in the NRA but they are getting old and now it's the gen X and Y guys and gals that are starting to put the NRA in line with more modern views.
Heck, in 40 years maybe your grandkids will be calling you a Fudd who only cares about AR-15s and AK-47s and their tiny 30rd mags, who doesn't give a hoot about their phased plasma rifles.

Rob G
March 1, 2012, 02:00 PM
It's like the boy who cried wolf, I never know when there is a legitimate threat.

Easy Answer. There's always a legitimate threat. The anti-gunners in congress will pass legislation further curtailing our second amendment rights the second we stop being vigilant about them. I don't believe the sky is falling. But I do believe that we will lose this fight if we back off.

AlexanderA
March 1, 2012, 04:16 PM
They thought they could get that part overturned but wanted the FOPA to pass, which it did.

The NRA had been pushing for the FOPA for a long time. When the Hughes Amendment "poison pill" was added at the last minute, the NRA was so heavily invested in the underlying bill that they felt they couldn't pull their support. If they had, Reagan would have vetoed it and the bill would have died. Not pulling their support was a major tactical mistake, because it would have been a lot easier to get a clean FOPA later than to get the Hughes Amendment overturned later. The root cause of this, in my view, is that the NRA had, and still has, a lot of institutional inertia.

JohnBT
March 1, 2012, 06:56 PM
"Others have said the 1968 GCA would have been much worse if it haven't been for the NRA."

The ones who know what happened.

You don't really believe that the NRA got to vote those laws into existence, do you? You don't really believe the NRA could have stopped the passage of all gun restrictions once Kennedy and the others were murdered, do you? There was a major fight from JFK's death in '63 until the law was passed in '68. I was a teenager living just outside D.C. and followed the story for years.


Read the history. Not the sound bite history, not the bumper sticker history, the real history.

John

Double Vision
March 1, 2012, 07:50 PM
The NRA is the first line of defense in protecting OUR gun rights.

You may not agree with every position they take, but there is no other organization that has the clout to defend the 2nd Amendment.

Malachi Leviticus Blue
March 1, 2012, 08:20 PM
Any one can complain,but REALLY, who has done more for 2A?

BIGGBAY90
March 1, 2012, 08:25 PM
Try telling that to nyc reisdent and other strict citys--nra--where

pbearperry
March 1, 2012, 08:29 PM
Without the NRA,we would all be taking knife fighting lessons.

trex1310
March 1, 2012, 08:45 PM
Ah Yes, mayhap now you will realize that wisdom comes with age.

Now folks, why do we need to swing this into yet another "bash the NRA" thread.


I must have missed something. This seems to me to be a pro NRA
thread, very pro. If you can find your glasses, read kudzu's post.
That post describes the current NRA to a tee. Eventually, we can vote
the current leadership out and perhaps, just perhaps change the NRA's
stance and tactics on some things. I encourage those on this forum
to take advantage of the $300 life membership if you can.

BIGGBAY90
March 1, 2012, 08:57 PM
Without the NRA,we would all be taking knife fighting lessons.

some states do already--- but

i think we need someone (in politics,power,money) to speak for the people and i guess the nra found a way to gather people to join and to donate money to gain some gun rights for some (most)states which is good----"""member speaking"""pro nra

Steel Horse Rider
March 1, 2012, 09:25 PM
I am amazed this thread isn't locked yet. We have sensitive people who over react (in my opinion) when their pet ox is gored.....

Rembrandt
March 1, 2012, 09:35 PM
....letter from the NRA stating that I was now a member.....That's right, my parents paid for me to have a membership in the NRA. So, there it is. I am a NRA member.

Not the first youngster to realize their parents were wiser than they were given credit for.

Chris-bob
March 2, 2012, 01:34 AM
While I do not care for the majority of the NRA, I do support it in our fight for our 2A rights. They, like any organization, can only push as much as their supporters push. And it takes a lot of money to feed that 800# gorilla. I try to feed all of the pro 2A organizations I can so the politicians hear it from the 800# gorillas and the 150# chimps. Someday I will have the extra money to spring for the lifetime membership.

lathedog
March 2, 2012, 10:08 AM
If you have any concern for individual liberties, you should join the NRA.

I have no idea how any gun owner could be so upset with the NRA that they refuse to support them. The NRA has never been perfect, but for many years they were the only barrier between America and total loss of gun rights. If we lose gun rights, all other rights will follow.

There are other groups that have also done great work over the last few decades, like SAF, GOA, CCRKBA, Firearms Coalition, and more recently JPFO has answered the call. You should support as many of these as you can, and also join your state level equivalent(s) to the NRA.

My personal observation is that some people are too cheap to pay $35 a year to join (you can often find discounted memberships at $25) and then rationalize their cheapness with a bunch of psychobabble. These folks are of no value to the rest of us.

We have to accept the fact that individual liberties are being constantly eroded, and we need to support organized efforts to slow or reverse that erosion, even if the organizations are flawed in some way. Any large organization is going to have flaws.

The only people who have a right to criticize the NRA are voting members, or people who support other similar organizations. If you donate significant time and money to GOA, SAF, CCRKBA, etc, then you have some call to criticize the NRA, although I bet at that point you would understand how badmouthing the NRA could never help gun rights to move forward.

krupparms
March 2, 2012, 11:53 PM
I am sadden by the post here about the NRA. As I read the things being said, I wounder if we have lost our ability to think, speak &act toward each other as supporters of rights to free speach &others like the 2nd amendment! The threads on the NRA bother me &should others! The only thing I see is us ( including me) wasting our time &giving the anti -gunners just what they want! Us in a fight &devided .One of the main points I would like to make is anyone who believes that berating me to join an organization that I don't want to is not going to secede! It willnot happen! Saying they carry us is a very arrogant view! You have been caught up in what our enemies want. You have fallen into their propaganda! I have a whole list of things against The NRA. Where we're they when people were being killed by the government? They did not stop anything, it was the people that stopped them! The real 800LB. guerilla! WE THE PEOPLE! THE MILITIA! It was the people of the state of Texas that stopped that. But even they were to late! Those are just a few reasons. But that is not my purpose for writing this. It is to try &get people to stop calling names &think! I don't want to be an NRA member, calling me names &saying you're carrying me willnot change that! You are taking my right to believe &be free! How will that serve our cause? YOU CANNOT HAVE FREEDOM UNLESS YOU GIVE IT AWAY! PLEASE give that some thought. Maybe we aren't as far apart as some would hope we are! Thanks

jcwit
March 3, 2012, 01:31 AM
That is sure a rambling dissertation, having little meaning.

Name calling?

krupparms
March 3, 2012, 02:36 AM
Did not think you would jc. Hope others can!

jcwit
March 3, 2012, 02:51 AM
Did not think you would jc.

Did not think I would what? You're not making any sense!

Where is the name calling? I see no posts have been edited.

BIGGBAY90
March 3, 2012, 07:25 AM
Easy guys, we're getting off track. The open post was just one mans opinion that's all and we are all intitle to that.

Johannes_Paulsen
March 3, 2012, 08:48 AM
@2075 Rami:

You said:
Later, while doing more research on the NRA I have found that I was misled on some of the info I was given. I'm still researching other info that had misled me.


What information about the NRA do you now believe to be incorrect?

230RN
March 3, 2012, 10:44 AM
DoubleTapDrew said,


The NRA is evolving constantly. They are now much more favorable towards black rifles, concealed carry, and other genres. It's with the new members that these changes are coming about. Remember how Zumbo got hammered for his anti-AR stance, and changed his mind? There are a lot of Fudds in the NRA but they are getting old and now it's the gen X and Y guys and gals that are starting to put the NRA in line with more modern views.

Heck, in 40 years maybe your grandkids will be calling you a Fudd who only cares about AR-15s and AK-47s and their tiny 30rd mags, who doesn't give a hoot about their phased plasma rifles.
(Boldface mine)


That's why you join as a voting member: to elect directors who reflect your own views.

The fact is inescapable that that 800 pound gorilla is an 800 pound gorilla and you should support the NRA and the NRA-ILA --the Institute for Legislative Action, which doesn't get support from membership dues.

Or at least quit knocking it from the outside.

Maybe that's what your parents were thinking, 2075 RAMI.

Terry, 230RN

jcwit
March 3, 2012, 11:27 AM
If one has been a member for 5 consecutive years they are a voting member.

krupparms
March 3, 2012, 12:49 PM
The post is just 1mans opinion, we all have a right to that! It would seem that is only true if you are an NRA MEMBER. My opinions mean nothing unless I join a organization I don't believe in! You fokes sure have a unusual sense of freedom & that recruiting drive, I bet it works! Is this the new NRA? YOU cannot see what these posts do? Why don't you just send some NRA members over to beat me into joining or take my rights away! O sorry I forgot I don't have any unless I see the light &join the NRA! SOMETHING I'LL JUST GO DO! DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT FREEDOM MEANS ? Then try putting into action!

jcwit
March 3, 2012, 12:56 PM
Man alive, you sure have anger issues.

No one has even mentioned your posts, and you say we want to take your rights away????????????????????????

Oh well, to each his own, I guess.

krupparms
March 3, 2012, 01:12 PM
Well I have been given permission to believe how I would like. Yes JC I have anger issues! That kicks in when I see &hear people trying to flush freedom down the crapper! Thanks for seeing I have a right to my opinion! I will not join any group that has members berating others to join!

jcwit
March 3, 2012, 01:26 PM
We'll sure try to help you keep your freedoms tho.

We work at it on a daily basis.

Nuclear
March 3, 2012, 02:17 PM
Back to the OP (or at least closer) - the NRA does (kinda) represent gun owners, but by virtue of its size and age has become another bureaucratic organization whose first goal is continuing existence and getting larger and larger. Hence the constant harping on "give us money to fight for your gun rights!". And its slowness / reluctance on supporting the cases against gun laws. They do have a place, but it isn't the cutting edge.

Personally, I belong to them (and as many others as I can manage), but not on a lifetime basis. I want to influence them, and if I can withdraw my money and membership on a yearly basis, I feel I have more influence than if they have my lifetime membership dues in their pocket.

gatorjames85
March 3, 2012, 02:31 PM
Say what you want about the NRA; if the organization vanished tommorrow, you would see immediate unchecked action to take away firearm rights.

powell&hyde
March 3, 2012, 02:52 PM
gatorjames85, you are right and I can guarantee it will be an unprecedented chaos in the US.

Rob G
March 3, 2012, 03:36 PM
And its slowness / reluctance on supporting the cases against gun laws.

I know there's a lot of frustration with the fact that the NRA doesn't always jump in guns blazing, figurately speaking, every time this stuff comes up but it's not always because they're too focused on saving their own jobs. Sometimes it's because they want to make sure that they're doing the right thing. If being fast / eager was always the best course of action then teenagers would make the best leaders.

I don't think the NRA is always right in their decisions, but there is often a fair amount of wisdom in them.

krupparms
March 3, 2012, 05:45 PM
I hope that this exchange between a NRA member &I was read by all with a open mind. It was written on my part to show just what I believe. There are forces at work to keep us devided &not seeing the real issues! I was a member of the NRA! And did not agree with its misuse of funds or them giving in on many important issues! I have considered joining agin. But alot of the PRO NRA TREADS have me thinking otherwise! The things stated by most of the NRA members are attacks on those that who don't belong to the NRA! Statements like your carrying the rest of us, & that the NRA is the 800LB. guerilla in the room! Are attacks against other pro gun rights groups! The MILITIA is the 800LB. Guerilla in the room! It aways has been &always will be! Look up the last MILITIA action at Athens Tennessee! The NRA was around but did nothing! It was the MILITIA! I am glad that NRA member will keep working for my freedom &I will do the same! I will always believe that all groups use propaganda, even the good one's. I believe the NRA is changeing &hope that one day it will be a group that I can agree with more. I am disappointed that more members did not speak up to defend my rights to believe what I wanted to believe, even if they disagreed with me! We can work together but not like this! I spoke with a mod. about this issue &was asked if I wanted to start a new thread. I didn't because of this one. I am sorry if some felt I hi-jacked this one. I would also like to apologize to 2075RAMI .I have said what I came to! FIN.:)

gatorjames85
March 3, 2012, 05:57 PM
I am disappointed that more members did not speak up to defend my rights to believe what I wanted to believe, even if they disagreed with me!

Who said anything about your right to hold your beliefs? Those who disagreed with you voiced their opinions, they didn't censor you.

Rob G
March 3, 2012, 06:13 PM
I am disappointed that more members did not speak up to defend my rights to believe what I wanted to believe, even if they disagreed with me!

You were allowed to voice your opinions without being censored. That is upholding your rights to your ideas and the free expression of them. I'm not sure what else you think we're required to do.

Look up the last MILITIA action at Athens Tennessee! The NRA was around but did nothing!

I did as you asked and I think you're confused about what the NRA does. The NRA stands up for second amendmant rights. The Militia action at Athens Tennessee was about a corrupt local government interfering with citizen's rights to a responsible elected government. The article itself states the fact that there were almost no gun control laws in place and that access to firearms was clearly not an issue for either side.

DoubleTapDrew
March 3, 2012, 06:28 PM
The fact is inescapable that that 800 pound gorilla is an 800 pound gorilla and you should support the NRA and the NRA-ILA --the Institute for Legislative Action, which doesn't get support from membership dues.



I did not realize the NRA-ILA didn't get financial support from NRA membership dues. Will try to contribute to them this year. I assume it's tax deductible (up to $50 or whatever the limit is)?

jcwit
March 3, 2012, 06:57 PM
Look up the last MILITIA action at Athens Tennessee!

Not wanting much to do with Militia Groups in general. I remember a few cases of the so called Michigan Militia and the chaos they caused.

FROGO207
March 3, 2012, 07:12 PM
That is true the NRA and the ILA are seperate entities. The NRA uses the funds for education/firearms education programs. The ILA is there for lobbying/influence/lawsuit action that is needed for continued RKBA support. As stated they are NOT always where I want them to be but better than any alternative these days. I you want to change them join and vote for what you want and the gorilla will morph (slowly I am afraid) into the one you want.:cool:

jj1962hemi
March 3, 2012, 07:13 PM
Gang,

The NRA has doubled (about) in size over the last decade. That's a good thing for all of us. I think it also proves the Chicken Little language must work for them. I was in my LGS last week and a guy behind the counter said he wouldn't join because they don't do enough in our state. I've also heard people complain about the amount of junk mail. Our priorities should be to keep our rights. Period. If it takes crying wolf and burying us in mail, so be it. You should also support your state's rifle assn.

230RN
March 4, 2012, 10:02 AM
I was in my LGS last week and a guy behind the counter said he wouldn't join because they don't do enough in our state.

You've got to pick your battles. An analogy from history:

Logistically, it didn't make much sense in World War II for the Allies to fight on two fronts, the European fight and the Pacific fight, all at once. After VE Day in Europe, we started sending men and equipment to the Pacific battle and won that one, too. In the meantime, all the folks in the Pacific war felt they were sucking hind tit.

And one of the major reasons we finally prevailed in Europe was that the leader of the Axis powers did not realize this and squandered his resources in a fruitless battle against Russia --Operation Barbarossa.

It's a strategic / tactical / logistics decision. You do what you can with what resources you have when you have them, and the NRA has many more programs to support besides just jumping into every lawsuit in every state.

And that's why they're "always" asking for money --and you can easily opt out of the NRA's and ILA's solicitations.

As another poster put it:

Hence the constant harping on "give us money to fight for your gun rights!".

But of course!

I guess I'm done here. Some people just don't like cats, either.

Terry, 230RN

jj1962hemi
March 4, 2012, 10:32 AM
Great follow-up Terry! I'm with you. I give to various charities monthly, and I also give to the NRA, NRA-ILA, my state assn., The Heritage Foundation, and I'm considering the two other 2A organizations. I've stuck with the NRA because they have the critical mass needed to push back.

It's similar to the current political arguement surrounding the presidential election. Support the choice that gets the U.S. moving closest to the direction you want it to. If you like the President's views on balance, vote Dem., if you like the R's platform more, don't get caught up in losing steam for a particular candidate that doesn't represent the "perfect package." I don't mean to highjack the post, but I think the principles are the analogous. Fight the good fight!

jj1962hemi
March 4, 2012, 10:34 AM
BTW, thank God Hitler was an egomaniacal idiot with his military strategy!

phil dirt
March 4, 2012, 10:50 AM
I'm an NRA life member. When I contribute to the NRA it's always to NRA-ILA and to NRA-PVF. Anybody who hopes to keep their guns, in my opinion, should contribute as much as they are able to both. The election in November will determine whether or not the Second Amendment, and ultimately the rest of the Bill of Rights, survives.

V1ROT8
March 4, 2012, 10:51 AM
Lived in Dallas during the JFK firestorm. The anti gun movement was huge. The 2nd was in deep trouble.

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