March Centerfire Match:


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Maverick223
March 1, 2012, 03:59 PM
Welcome to the Centerfire Match for the month of March! This match is open to any centerfire rifle. This match is meant to be challenging and educational, but most of all FUN. Hopefully it will get you out to the range and shooting your rifle. If you have one handy, make sure an bring a friend too.


->Iron sights and non-magnified optics and red dots. Shot at 50yds.
->Scopes and other magnified sighting devices. Shot at 100yds.

There are Three Rifle Classes in the magnified division (only one for the non-magnified division):
->Unlimited/Benchrest Rifles (highly modified/custom rifles, machine rests, heavy rifles (over 20lbs), very high magnification optics [over 20x] may be used).
->Target Rifles (modified rifles, rests, heavy rifles (over 10lbs), high magnification optics- over 10x [with an upper limit of 20x] may be used).
->Sporting Rifles (Includes All Non-Target Class Autoloaders, Bolt Actions, Single Shots, Pumps, & Lever Rifles). Rests/sandbags/bipods are not permitted in this class, but shooting sticks (either the crossed or walking stick variety) are allowed. Use of a sling is encouraged. Shoots may be taken from any position. Rests/Sandbags/bipods are not permitted in this class.


50 Yd. (Irons) Target: See image in the link below. Scale to 100% on standard 8.5x11in. paper. The objective is to fire one shot at each ring (feel free to color them to increase visibility). Scored as indicated for nicking the ring, and double that for a shot lying completely within. No penalties for a miss, but if one of your shots stray and there are two holes in the same circle the lesser score is the one for record.

100 Yd. (Optics) Target: Same as above.

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Maverick223_album/DecreasingCircles.jpg

When you are satisfied you've done your best post/attach (or shoot me a PM) a photo or scan of your target with as much of the following information as possible: Forum name (or name you want posted in the results), Rifle, make, model, vintage (if known), Sights/Optics (with magnification if applicable), Ammo (or load, if you care to divulge your secret recipe), Position, Distance, Conditions (in/outdoors, wind, temperature...). Multiple submissions are allowed (in same or different class with same or different rifles).

Self-scoring is encouraged and appreciated. All submissions due before March 32nd. ;)

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Samclrk
March 1, 2012, 07:03 PM
I got in on last month`s too late.My problem was the scope.Not the Sierras.My Friends,you better be getting plenty of practice,cause I`ll be in this month.LOL

Maverick223
March 1, 2012, 07:08 PM
Samclrk, Glad you got your problem sorted. Was it loose or just wouldn't maintain repeatability?

:)

Samclrk
March 1, 2012, 07:54 PM
It did`nt have a parralax adjustment.I was having problems getting the same sight picture..Basically,the problem was me.I took the rifle to a very good machine shop and he drilled the barrel for my Unertl scope.I shot the sierras good,.Maybe better than the VMax.One problem,I had the bullets too close to the lands...I`m going back out tomorrow.I`ll post a picture tomorrow.

Samclrk
March 1, 2012, 08:39 PM
this is the little Bee
http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z325/steamgog/0012.jpg

Maverick223
March 1, 2012, 09:16 PM
Yep, parallax can cause all sorts of problems, particularly with a high-magnification optics (their designers of such riflescopes should be shot). That reminds me of an otherwise excellent scope, the Minox 3-15x42mm...which someone left the side-focus out of; which severely limits its utility.

Anyway, you have a nice looking rifle, and certainly have a good scope fitted. Custom mini-mauser?

:)

Sergeant Sabre
March 4, 2012, 11:27 PM
So let me get this straight: you shoot one round at each circle, but if two rounds land completely within the same circle, you only get scored for one of them, and if one is cutting the line, and the other is completely within, you only get the score of the lesser, cutting round?

It's a good target. I wish more people would compete in the centerfire matches, and the non-magnified / iron sight class in particular. There HAS to be more AR-owners on THR with just irons or an Aimpoint or EOTech...

Maverick223
March 4, 2012, 11:46 PM
So let me get this straight: you shoot one round at each circle, but if two rounds land completely within the same circle, you only get scored for one of them, and if one is cutting the line, and the other is completely within, you only get the score of the lesser, cutting round?Yep, don't miss. :D FWIW, you don't have to take a shot at each of the circles.

It's a good target. I wish more people would compete in the centerfire matches, and the non-magnified / iron sight class in particular. There HAS to be more AR-owners on THR with just irons or an Aimpoint or EOTech...You and me both. Unfortunately, despite many other rifles sporting irons, an AR isn't amongst those. Personally I'd really like to see a few more mil-surp. and silhouette type rifles get in on the action.

:)

Sergeant Sabre
March 5, 2012, 01:57 AM
Yes, anything in the irons / non-magnified class would be excellent. You are correct; other than AR owners, there seems to be quite a mil-surp following on this forum, as well. It would be nice to see them make a showing.

TurtlePhish
March 6, 2012, 10:20 PM
If I get a chance to go out to the range this month... Mosin M44. Let's all pray that I bring back a target that isn't charred and burned. ;)

Maverick223
March 6, 2012, 10:30 PM
I don't know...you might want to use a flash suppressant powder just to be sure. ;)

sixgunner455
March 7, 2012, 06:49 PM
Is your M44 scoped? Might not be able to make it at 50 yards without setting the target completely on fire, let alone singeing it ...

TurtlePhish
March 7, 2012, 09:23 PM
Nope, irons all the way. :)

I'll put a couple fire extinguishers next to the target to shoot when it starts to catch. ;)

Samclrk
March 7, 2012, 10:15 PM
I won`t have to worry about setting the target on fire..I`ve not been able to hit it yet.

Sergeant Sabre
March 7, 2012, 10:24 PM
As in, not at all? Not even on the paper at 50yds?

Samclrk
March 7, 2012, 10:29 PM
I`ve been shooting today at 130 yds.Some times I get five in an inch circle and some times it`s a two inch circle.Can`t understand why.If it does it some times,why not every time...Seems like it is me.

Maverick223
March 7, 2012, 11:18 PM
If it does it some times,why not every time...Seems like it is me.Not necessarily. A stock fit/bedding (pay particular attention to the barrel channel), barrel consistency (as it heats up), or optics/mount problem could be the culprit. I'd try the last one first, as you have recently swapped the scope, making it the most likely culprit IMO.

:)

Sergeant Sabre
March 8, 2012, 12:58 AM
Two inches at 130 yards isn't horrible. It's not going to win any matches, but that's really not bad accuracy at all.

Maverick has some good suggestions. I would also add that you should make sure you are holding or resting the rifle the same each time. If you are shooting off-hand using a sling to stabilize the rifle, for example, a different amount of tension on the sling can cause a different point of impact. Resting the rifle on the fore-end of the stock vs. on the barrel also can cause a different point of impact.

Samclrk
March 8, 2012, 05:22 PM
Thanks Mav and Sarge..
Yesterday,I made a U cut out in a piece of wood to go on the rest to fit the fore arm tight.Could have been the problem.Today,I replaced it with a sand bag.Today,I was shooting one hundred yards in twenty to thirty mph cross wind.The Hodgdon`s data gives nine grains,max for the fifty-two grain Sierra bullet.I shot from eight to thirteen grains.Seems like the Sierras like a clean barrel and fast bullet speed.It`s still getting the flyers.Seems like the faster the bullet the less flyers.I can`t figure why it will shoot nine good ones and throw one off.I`m going to stay with eleven,twelve and thirteen grains powder.
http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z325/steamgog/66666.jpg
http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z325/steamgog/77777.jpg
http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z325/steamgog/8888.jpg

Maverick223
March 8, 2012, 08:55 PM
No problem. Looks like that rest could have been the problem after all. At any rate, I'm glad to hear that you were able to get the kinks (at least for the most part) worked out.

:)

Sergeant Sabre
March 9, 2012, 12:58 PM
Is that one little bullet, spoiling your sub-MOA group into a 1.5" group, what you are calling a "flyer"? I guess, strictly speaking, it is, but with groups like that it's not really a big problem, is it?

It is odd, though. That one bullet does seem to take an entirely different path than the others. Are you sure it's not damaged? Keep in mind consistency in the base of the bullet is much more important to accurate flight than the tip.

Maybe you could post at a more reloading-specific forum for better advice.

Whiskey11
March 18, 2012, 06:23 PM
Went out and shot this today with my R700 however I'm a bit confused on scoring. Are we using the numbers in the circles as the score and doubling that if it's completely within that ring or are we counting each circle as 1 point and 2 if entirely in?

Edit: Derp, went and looked at the Rimfire match and saw they are using the scores in the rings. Hold on, I'll scan and post my results! :)

Edit 2:

Alrighty, here we are. First target isn't that great... In fact, I'm not sure what happened there but it is what it is! Second one is ok though! I think I'm in the "Target Rifle" crowd if only barely. Rifle specs at the bottom.

First: (75/182)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v141/whiskey_11/002-1.jpg

Second: (116/182)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v141/whiskey_11/001.jpg

I will let you decide on the #11 on this target, There is a tear into the black ring that got folded flat in the scanner. It's either a 116 or a 105.

Rifle:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v141/whiskey_11/photobucket-5410-1317674218795.jpg

Remington 700 SPS DM 24" Sport Barrel, 1:10 twist
Accuracy International AICS 1.5 Stock
Leupold Mark 4 LR/T 6.5-20x50mm M1 target knobs, MilDot reticle
Talley 20 MOA scope base
Burris X-Treme 30mm rings
Crappy Harris Bipod Clone

Load:
Winchester Cases Neck Sized
CCI #200 Large Rifle Primers
Sierra 168 gr Sierra Match Kings
43.5gr Varget
Magazine OAL (2.825 or something, longer than a standard round).

Shot from the prone with a rear bag and using the bipod.

Range conditions were 76, strong left to right wind gusts of around 10-15 MPH. Shooting at 100 yards.

Edit 3 (last I swear!): Yes, I edited out the Evike logos on the picture. Mostly because I hate the company (used to have a terrible reputation and it hasn't gotten much better) and to save ink.

Maverick223
March 18, 2012, 08:11 PM
I will let you decide on the #11 on this target, There is a tear into the black ring that got folded flat in the scanner. It's either a 116 or a 105.It's hard to tell from the scan, I'll go with your assessment.

Yes, I edited out the Evike logos on the picture. Mostly because I hate the company (used to have a terrible reputation and it hasn't gotten much better) and to save ink.That's fine by me; I don't know anything about 'em, just didn't want to cause a ruckus by taking their logo off of a free target. One of the reasons that I have been creating my own as of late (was just too busy earlier this month, so I took this one out of my archives).

:)

Whiskey11
March 18, 2012, 08:56 PM
Evike sells Airsoft Guns and equipment. Their reputation was that of one who was horribly unreliable at getting your order correct. Simple orders (one, very specific part) were often wrong. Airsoft guns they sell were notoriously unreliable when the same brand sold elsewhere was nearly flawless indicating either getting used guns sold as new, or them opening the gearboxes on the new guns and tinkering with them. I really do not like them. I hear (but refuse to believe) that they are getting better about it... That said, it didn't take long to remove it :D

Maverick223
March 22, 2012, 08:21 PM
Courtesy of GI_Jared, here is a copy of the match target in technicolor. Feel free to use either: color for clarity, B&W for thrift (or if you'd like use a B&W colorized with a crayon for a combination of the two). Enjoy.

:)

Gregaw
March 24, 2012, 07:33 PM
I only had ammo for one target with today. It scores as 101 I think. I botched a few shots, but overall I was happy with a few of the shots.

http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae150/gregaw/308march.jpg

It is a beautiful day here in Iowa 5-10 mph wind from the right. Sunny and 70ish degrees.

This was shot with my Savage 10FP .308, using 110gn Hornady VMax handloads. It has a 10X Bushnell 3200 scope on it. A beautiful day at the range! Spent almost 3 hours there with my son! :) :) :)

Maverick223
March 24, 2012, 08:14 PM
Not to shabby, gregaw.

:)

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

KSCCHTrainer
March 28, 2012, 11:00 AM
The weather guessers (forecasters?) got it wrong! Rain/T-Storms didn't materialize. Frank just called me, said the horses were still in the barn and there was absolutely NO wind messing with the range. The berm walls are high enough to keep even the very light breeze from affecting things too much so I just finished packing up the .223, 100 rounds of ammo and some of Maverick's red colored targets.

I'm headed for the outdoor range to shoot this month's centerfire match -- Happy Day!

Jim

KSCCHTrainer
March 28, 2012, 01:31 PM
Well, best laid plans of mice and men ---- Got over to Frank's place and found out he forgot to tell his wife to leave the horsies in the barn, not to mention the fact that the wind had picked up and it was swirling all over the place so we headed for the indoor range -- Had to come up with a target for this month's match even if I did have to shoot it indoors! :cuss:

Class: Unlimited/Target
Distance: 100 Yards Indoors, no wind
Rifle: Savage Model 10 Tactical in a Choate "Ultimate Sniper" stock with Nikon Buckmaster 6.5-18 X 40 glass. Mil Dot retical with super fine center crosshairs.
Position: Seated at bench, rifle on front bipod, rear monopod (built into the stock)
Ammo: Handloads, 75 grain PPU BTHP over 25.5 grains Hodgdon Varget on the uncolored target and 69 grain PPU BTHP over 25.0 grains Alliant Reloader #15 on the colored target.
Scores: Colored target, 157, uncolored target, 161 (For some reason I missed shooting the 4 altogether! :o ).
Could just barely see the outer ring on the uncolored target but the red color on the other one helped a lot. Took 10 uncolored targets to get lucky and come up with one where I managed to at least nick the outer ring on the 13. Took 2 on the colored one as I went to slightly heavier bullets and had to adjust the elevation by one click. I thought I aced it, but it looks like I may have nicked the ring on both the 12 and 13 so I'm calling it a 157.

Dang, Mav, you just keep coming up with the wildest targets to shoot at! Fun stuff!!!

Jim

Maverick223
March 28, 2012, 05:06 PM
I don't know if indoors really yields an unfair advantage anyway. Sure you can negate windage and mirage, but IME you also have more distractions to deal with. Shooting centerfire I'd call the difference negligible.

:)

KSCCHTrainer
March 28, 2012, 05:30 PM
I don't know if indoors really yields an unfair advantage anyway. Sure you can negate windage and mirage, but IME you also have more distractions to deal with. Shooting centerfire I'd call the difference negligible.

:)
Actually I never worried about it until I ran afoul of that "troll" we had heckling everyone for a while last year claiming anyone shooting indoors ought to not be allowed in the match.

Appears he got tired of being ignored and went to bothering some other forum.

You may be right about the distractions. Had several guys bouncing brass off my shoulders shooting AR's this morning. I'm left handed and they actually have a special lane all the way to the right that's uniquely set up for both left and right handers. It's only problem is that all other rifles eject their empties right at you. :uhoh:

Oh and just in case I don't get a chance to shoot in next month's matches, I'm gonna be pretty busy. I'm scheduled to teach a concealed carry class and 2 reloading classes next month so prep time might just keep me off the range.

Jim

Maverick223
March 28, 2012, 06:37 PM
It's only problem is that all other rifles eject their empties right at you.That's just there to help teach tactical brass avoidance maneuvers...never know when such a skill might be required, best to prepare ahead. :D

WRT missing next month's match: no explanation necessary, I know as well as anyone, things can get a bit hectic from time to time.

:)

KSCCHTrainer
March 28, 2012, 08:30 PM
That's just there to help teach tactical brass avoidance maneuvers...never know when such a skill might be required, best to prepare ahead. :D

:)

Yeah, your comment calls to mind the scene in Crocodile Dundee II where the street gang is hooting outside the wall to Rico's place on Long Island and when the guards come close to the wall the homies throw all the cans over. About like 2-3 AR's all shooting at once in the lanes left of you. :D

Maverick223
March 28, 2012, 08:57 PM
Jeez, some people are so hostile towards kind folks that are just looking to help others procure brass for reloading. :p

KSCCHTrainer
March 28, 2012, 09:38 PM
Hah! good thought. Way I figger it, any brass that comes into my lane whilst I'm shooting is mine. Sometimes this leads to friendly (mostly) conflicts with other shooters. If they are shooting anything other than reloadable .223 I sweep it onto the floor and let them sort it out. Anything else is fair game. That's why I shoot a bolt gun and make sure to catch the brass as it comes out so I don't lose any of my own.

The range is pretty good about letting you scavenge brass from the sweepings as long as you don't get too greedy and I usually ask anyone not reloading .223 to save their brass for me. If they don't have another friend that reloads, I usually go home with a couple hundred more empties than I brought with me. Most of it's Winchester White Box or Remington so it's pretty good brass. It pays to have a few of those Crown Royal booze bottle bags along. They make absolutely GREAT brass bags. I don't drink the stuff but I've got a friend who is the bar manager at the local VFW and he usually brings me a half dozen or so of the big ones a month. I pass 'em out at the range in return for .223, .38 Special, .44 Special or Magnum and .45ACP brass.

Jim

sixgunner455
April 1, 2012, 12:22 AM
Someone was lamenting that nobody tries these matches with an open-sighted, as-issued milsurp, so I decided to take a swing at it.

Shot my K31 prone, 1979 vintage GP11 ammo, at a colored-in B&W target. I gave up after 5 rounds. Felt like I was wasting ammo.

Scored 17. Hit the 2 fully in the circle, edge of the 3, and a pretty good edge hit on the 10, but I actually shot at 1-5.

Kind of fun to give it a try, but I don't think this target is really a good setup for a rifle like mine. At least, not in my hands.

Sergeant Sabre
April 1, 2012, 02:52 AM
sixgunner,

I was one of the ones that was wishing more people would take a try at this with iron-sighted rifles, or rifles with non-magnified optics. As I shot today with my AR and an EOTech, I came to the same conclusion as you did: This is not a good target for this type of rifle at this distance. I even colored-in the circles in bright pink, outlined in green, and I couldn't pick out the individual circles at 50yds. I was wearing my glasses, even, which give me 20/20 vision.

Anyway, here is my submission:

Rifle: Palmetto State Armory PAR-15, 16" barrel
Ammunition: Federal XM193, 55gr FMJ
Sights: EOTech 512
Score: 6

My target:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e274/sgtsabre/IMAG0574.jpg

Looks like three points to me. It looks like two rounds in the "1" circle, but the top hole is just a fragment that somehow tore the target. I gave up after shooting 1-4, because I wasn't shooting at individual circles, just at about where on the paper I thought the circle would be.

If we want more non-magnified or iron-sighted competition, we are going to either have to allow these rifles to shoot at a closer distance, or use a different target from the scoped rifles.

sixgunner455
April 1, 2012, 02:37 PM
Yeah, that's how I did it - I'd shot three or four of them rimfire, and so I pretty much knew where on the page the circles should be, and aimed there.

I figure, with this kind of rifle, I should be able to hit the sheet of paper quite a bit further than 50 yards, but any particular spot on it? Nah.

Maverick223
April 1, 2012, 03:48 PM
Sergeant Sabre, I think a closer distance (along with a little better target selection) might be the ticket for non-magnified sighting. What do you guys think about 25yds?

:)

Maverick223
April 1, 2012, 03:57 PM
Scores are in;

Magnified, Unlimited Division:
1st: KSCCHTrainer (161)

Magnified, Target Division:
1st: Whiskey11 (116)
2nd: Gregaw (101)

Non Magnified Class:
1st: sixgunner455 (17)
2nd: Sergeant Sabre (6)

Stay tuned, the next match is in the works and is planned to be posted within the hour...

:)

sixgunner455
April 1, 2012, 04:20 PM
Hey, not to disparage SgtSabre, but don't I get credit for trying it with my K31? :D

Maverick223
April 1, 2012, 04:25 PM
Sorry for leaving you out, sixgunner455. Didn't see a photo, so I missed your post when doing the final tally. :o

Maverick223
April 1, 2012, 04:46 PM
New match is up and running; come check it out here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8074576#post8074576).

:)

Sergeant Sabre
April 1, 2012, 06:43 PM
I think 25yds is a good place to start. We can always tweak things based on feedback later.

sixgunner455
April 1, 2012, 07:19 PM
No problem. It wasn't really worth scanning, you know!


25 yards might be the ticket, depending on the target.

I mean, November's Turkey probably would have been a hoot at 100, just to see what kind of score I got.

Sergeant Sabre
April 2, 2012, 04:42 AM
I mean, November's Turkey probably would have been a hoot at 100, just to see what kind of score I got.

Right. I think the issue is the many small targets on one page blend together. If the target is one large object, I think it would be do-able at 50yds, since the point of aim would generally be the very center of the one object that is visible at 50yds.

Maverick223
April 2, 2012, 10:05 AM
Let me know what you think about this month's target/range. The target is somewhat small, but not nearly as small as some of the previous month's targets. I think it'll work at 25, but I haven't had the opportunity to test it as of yet.

:)

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