Sporterize an old Mauser - Help?


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Gtimothy
March 3, 2012, 10:08 AM
I have an old Brazilian Mauser chambered in 30-06 that has a heavily pitted barrel. I got it a long time ago at K-mart and didn't realize how bad the barrel was until I got it home and cleaned the cosmoline out of it. I just kept it instead of going through the hassle of returning it.

Now I want to have it rebarreled. I've seen a lot of comments about using modern ammunition in "military surplus" Mausers but is this still an issue if I replace the barrel with modern steel? I would like to have it chambered for 308 WIN so the pressure shouldn't be an issue...right? Any help will be greatly appreciated

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dprice3844444
March 3, 2012, 10:14 AM
ya can't kill an old mauser. 308 or 3006 should be fine.have you shot this one to see how it groups before rebarreling?you can use a standard 1/10 twist,or if you want to try something really radical,a 1x11.25 5r rifling on it.remington is using the 5r on it's sniper rifles.you can make a scout rifle out of it. does it have a stripper clip guide?
http://www.tobystactical.com/

http://criterionbarrels.com/products.html

Mauser lover
March 3, 2012, 10:17 AM
Go ahead and put .308 in there if you want, but .30-06 should be fine as well; Mausers are plenty strong.

Are you going to scope it?

Check the group it throws before you re-barrel it, it might be just fine (unlikely, but you might be lucky, and it gives you an excuse to go shoot :D)

SaxonPig
March 3, 2012, 10:24 AM
The military 98 was converted to 7.62x51 (308) by a number armies around the world. The '06 will work but requires some opening of the the action due the increased length of the '06 (63mm v 57mm). The 7x57 (7mm Mauser) is one of the great cartridges in history and is a drop in fit.

Take-off M98 barrels in 8x57 (and 7x57) are all over the place at dirt cheap prices. You might want to just bag a replacement military barrel and get it shooting.

Gtimothy
March 3, 2012, 10:50 AM
I shot it right after I got it and it was all over the place. Tried to lap the barrel with the special lapping rounds but it didn't help.

dprice3844444- The receiver is notched for stripper clips now that you mention it!

Mauser lover - Yeah, I want to put some good glass on it and put it in a synthetic stock and see how far I can shoot!

SaxonPig - That's an option but I don't want to have to start reloading another caliber...reloading too many as it is! ; )

jimmyraythomason
March 3, 2012, 11:16 AM
The '06 will work but requires some opening of the the action due the increased length of the '06 (63mm v 57mm). Actually the 30.06 will fit without any modification. The Brazilian is already 30.06 so 30.06 length cases are good to go (.270win,,.280rem,25.06 etc). I have converted several M98s in 8x57 to 30.06 and have never had to open up the action to make them work.

jimmyraythomason
March 3, 2012, 11:20 AM
When you decide on a caliber,may I suggest these barrels? <http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=22531/avs%7CMake~~Model_1=Mauser__98/Product/SHORT-CHAMBERED-MAUSER-BARREL> This is the best value for a quality sporter barrel.

Gtimothy
March 3, 2012, 11:49 AM
When you decide on a caliber,may I suggest these barrels? <http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=22531/avs%7CMake~~Model_1=Mauser__98/Product/SHORT-CHAMBERED-MAUSER-BARREL> This is the best value for a quality sporter barrel.
Thanks jimmyray... Not a bad price for a barrel! Would have my local smith do the re- barrel and headspace. My only concern would be polishing and bluing it. I tried cold bluing once and it worked reasonably well but takes a lot of prep and time. It didn't have that deep blue that is so coveted by some but I'm not that picky, as long as it's a shooter I don't care how it looks! Function over form any day of the week!

dprice3844444
March 3, 2012, 11:55 AM
after you get it assembled,you can have tapped for mounts,reblued,parkerized,or robararms.com.
check on a scout mount also.with the scout mount,you can used the stripper clips.

NCsmitty
March 3, 2012, 12:26 PM
If you haven't yet, pull the action out of the stock and check for action pitting under the wood line. Many South American rifles were exposed to moisture and humidity, and can be rusted and pitted under the wood. Usually not a safety issue, but can be fixed with metal filler and coated with one of the firearms epoxies. I have Duracoated several of my Mauser conversions, and there are many different colors available to suit. It is more durable than bluing if you prep the metal properly.


NCsmitty

jimmyraythomason
March 3, 2012, 12:31 PM
I agree with NCSmitty on Duracote. I do my own hot blue so for me that is my choice of finish BUT short of hot blue,I MUCH prefer Duracote,Guncote or even automotive paint over cold blue for overall finish. If you can't get hot blue or parkerizeing go with a spray-on finish (baked on or not). Brownell's Alumi-hyde II is also a very good option.

Gtimothy
March 3, 2012, 12:33 PM
If you haven't yet, pull the action out of the stock and check for action pitting under the wood line. Many South American rifles were exposed to moisture and humidity, and can be rusted and pitted under the wood. Usually not a safety issue, but can be fixed with metal filler and coated with one of the firearms epoxies. I have Duracoated several of my Mauser conversions, and there are many different colors available to suit. It is more durable than bluing if you prep the metal properly.


NCsmitty
I'll have to check when I get home. What type of metal filler do you use?

newfalguy101
March 3, 2012, 12:54 PM
I would like to have it chambered for 308 WIN so the pressure shouldn't be an issue...right? Any help will be greatly appreciated


For what its worth, the .308 operates at higher pressure than the 30-06.........

even so it should be fine

jimmyraythomason
March 3, 2012, 01:09 PM
This is one of my Colombian Mausers (originally 30.06)that I built. This particular one is in .308 win.

Gtimothy
March 3, 2012, 01:19 PM
This is one of my Colombian Mausers (originally 30.06)that I built. This particular one is in .308 win.
That's EXACTLY what I want to accomplish with mine! What are the particulars?

jimmyraythomason
March 3, 2012, 01:44 PM
I started with this barreled receiver (barrel was shot). I removed the charger guides and D&Ted for scope mounts. I replaced the bolt and firing pin with one from a Parker Hale. The bolt shroud is a new FN from Brownell's and the trigger w/safety is a Zastava unit. An aluminum trigger guard/magazine assembly from Brownell's(the assembly is longer than the original so the receiver opening must be elongated to match). The stock is a Remington 798pull off from Gunbroker.com as is the 24" barrel. Scope mounts are Talley's and scope is a Leupold VX-1. Hot bluing is Brownell's Oxynate 7. I did all but the rebarreling and chambering. The gun shoots < 1"@ 100 yards with 150 grn Federal ammo.

Gtimothy
March 3, 2012, 02:00 PM
I started with this barreled receiver (barrel was shot). I removed the charger guides and D&Ted for scope mounts. I replaced the bolt and firing pin with one from a Parker Hale. The bolt shroud is a new FN from Brownell's and the trigger w/safety is a Zastava unit. An aluminum trigger guard/magazine assembly from Brownell's(the assembly is longer than the original so the receiver opening must be elongated to match). The stock is a Remington 798pull off from Gunbroker.com as is the 24" barrel. Scope mounts are Talley's and scope is a Leupold VX-1. Hot bluing is Brownell's Oxynate 7. I did all but the rebarreling and chambering. The gun shoots < 1"@ 100 yards with 150 grn Federal ammo.
Nice! So basically everything has been replaced but the receiver?

jimmyraythomason
March 3, 2012, 02:33 PM
So basically everything has been replaced but the receiver?
Basically but I have other Mauser sporters that use more of the original parts just this one is in .308. That's why I chose it to post about. I have others in 30.06,.280 rem,7x57mm,.257 roberts. I prefer my safety to be on the trigger hence the FN shroud for appearance.

Cypress
March 3, 2012, 05:05 PM
Don't forget about the rust blue option. Pilkington's formula has given me excellent results and it is very durable. Takes a little time but I like the look better than the spray on finishes.

Gtimothy
March 3, 2012, 08:35 PM
Ok, got home and dug waaaaay in the back of my safe and brought out the Brazilian. I'm confused now though....I thought it was a model 98 but it looks like it might not be. The markings on the left side side of the receiver say "FA'BRICA DE ITAJUBA - BRASIL" and the left side says "Mq .30 M954". Now I'm thinking that it is a model 95 small ring mauser. If so, how will it effect my designs for it? Can I still sporterize it into .308 or am I stuck with a wall decoration??? Kinda bummed right now...Still doing research and any help would be appreciated!

jimmyraythomason
March 4, 2012, 07:33 AM
Here is an example of a typical Mauser 95 and a Mauser 98. Which one is your's most like?

Gtimothy
March 4, 2012, 08:02 AM
Mine looks like the one on the right. Got my fingers crossed that that is the "large" ring action....This is what my gun looks like (Not my actual gun though)

SaxonPig
March 4, 2012, 09:38 AM
I'm sure it's a 98 although it may be a small ring 98. These actually make very cool sporting rifles as they are a bit trimmer than the large ring models.

jimmyraythomason
March 4, 2012, 09:40 AM
The rifle on the right is a large ring k98 that was converted to 7.62x51 by Israel. Large ring dimensions are: O.A.L. 8.75",distance between receiver screws 7.835", receiver ring diameter 1.41".

NCsmitty
March 4, 2012, 10:30 AM
Here's some information on your Mq .30 1954 that is discussed at the link. Bear in mind it is internet information.

If it were mine, I would check the action for excess headspace with HS gauges, and if it checks good, it should be fine to use it for whatever you want.
It is a M98 based on the Brazilian M1908 action, and should have the extra third safety lug at the rear of the bolt. They were converted to 30'06 from 7mm Mauser in Brazil.
At least that's what I gleaned from the page.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f37/how-strong-action-chamber-brazilian-30-06-mausers-23817/


NCsmitty

Gtimothy
March 4, 2012, 12:03 PM
Well, it looks as though I'm going to have to break out the calipers and do some measuring tonight. This may be a stupid question but...if I'm putting a new barrel in the action, shouldn't I wait to have the head space checked then? Or is there something I'm missing in head space checks? I thought they were checks done to check cartridge fitment into the chamber...I hate being such a newbie! I REALLY appreciate all of the help and information you all are sharing with me! I'm sure I'll have LOTS of questions as this project moves forward! Thanks again!

jimmyraythomason
March 4, 2012, 02:05 PM
shouldn't I wait to have the head space checked then?Checking the headspace before removing the old barrel can give you an idea as to the condition of the receiver and it's hardness. Headspace becomes excessive as the bolt is setback into the receiver due to soft metal. This headspace problem can be solved by setting the barrel back or replacing but if the receiver is too soft,it may only be temporary. It may not be serious for mild or standard pressure rounds but could be critical with the higher pressure loads.

Gtimothy
March 4, 2012, 02:35 PM
Checking the headspace before removing the old barrel can give you an idea as to the condition of the receiver and it's hardness. Headspace becomes excessive as the bolt is setback into the receiver due to soft metal. This headspace problem can be solved by setting the barrel back or replacing but if the receiver is too soft,it may only be temporary. It may not be serious for mild or standard pressure rounds but could be critical with the higher pressure loads.
Ok, I guess I'll take it up to my smith and have him check it to see if this project is even going to start! And I thought this was going to be easy! Oh well, It'll be worth it if the receiver is ok. Just gotta keep positive!

jimmyraythomason
March 4, 2012, 02:40 PM
Don't get discouraged! Even excessive headspace isn't a project killer! The date on your rifle leads me to believe that your receiver is sufficiantly hard for most any caliber you choose to use.

Gtimothy
March 4, 2012, 02:51 PM
Not discouraged, kinda overwhelmed. I worked on weapons systems in the Navy that were easier to figure out..:rolleyes: Like I said...Hate being a newbie!

CZguy
March 4, 2012, 03:19 PM
Not discouraged, kinda overwhelmed. I worked on weapons systems in the Navy that were easier to figure out.. Like I said...Hate being a newbie!

The only cure for that is time. Hang in there, this will be a fun project.

Gtimothy
March 4, 2012, 05:55 PM
Ok, got the calipers out and mic'd the front of the action. 1.48" , OAL is 8.75" and the distance between mounting holes is 7.8~". According to a previous post, those are the dimensions of a large ring action...correct? Next stop is the gunsmith to check for excess head space. Then, if everything checks ok, I'll start ordering parts.

On a different note, for anyone concerned with me "spoiling" a collector piece, none of the numbers match except the action and stock. The bolt and barrel have different numbers...

Gtimothy
March 5, 2012, 01:05 PM
Just got back from the gunsmith and the removal and rebarrel would have to be sent off site. The numbers he quoted me were MUCH higher than I want to put into the project. I feel I'd be better off putting the money into a new rifle and just put the mauser back into the safe. To all of you who helped with the information, I thank you!

CZguy
March 5, 2012, 04:20 PM
You might want to check here. http://www.gun-shop.biz/

Cypress
March 7, 2012, 12:31 AM
Action wrenches and barrel vices are cheap/easy to build. Buy a good book and cut the smith out of the loop. You'll learn a lot and it will mean even more when you finish the build.

denton
March 7, 2012, 11:04 AM
Just as a benchmark, our local 'smith charged me $125 to grind down the bridge, fix the bolt handle, drill and tap, install a new safety, true the action, and do the installation of my barrel. Even so, that's a long way toward the price of a new rifle.

It depends a little bit on whether you want a fun project, or if you just want a better rifle. In a couple of cases, I've spent more than the cost of a new rifle on a custom project, had a lot of fun, and ended up with an extra nice custom rifle.

If you do rebarrel, I'd suggest thinking beyond 30-06 or 308.

Short 308 cartridges look funny in a full length action.

At modern pressures, 7x57 and 6.5x55 are wonderful performers. My 7x57 gives me 2750 FPS with 160 grain bullets, with mild recoil. It's a pleasure to shoot, and I'm sure easily as effective as a 30-06. You can also do something with a little more oomph like 338-06 or go completely crazy and build an Africa 9.3x62 at the same price.

CZguy
March 7, 2012, 05:34 PM
If you do rebarrel, I'd suggest thinking beyond 30-06

Heresy, bite your tongue. :D

Zeke/PA
March 7, 2012, 05:56 PM
Throw the rifle into the nearest swamp, hopefully nobody will see you doing it!

Gtimothy
March 8, 2012, 09:24 PM
I sat down and figured the cost of parts with shipping then added the cost the smith hinted at and figured that I could buy a brand new Remington 700 in what ever caliber I want for just a few $ more....Thinking a new 300 WIN MAG is in my future!!!!!

CZguy
March 8, 2012, 10:25 PM
I sat down and figured the cost of parts with shipping then added the cost the smith hinted at and figured that I could buy a brand new Remington 700 in what ever caliber I want for just a few $ more....

It's definitely your choice....but before you pull the trigger, maybe jimmyraythomason would be kind enough to post a few pictures of his creations. It's a choice between a nice factory rifle, and what literally is a work of art. With bragging rights. ;)

jimmyraythomason
March 8, 2012, 11:15 PM
Here are just a few:L-R,(1)Colombian Mauser using original military barrel in 30.06,(2) Turk K-Kale in .280 Remington and (3) Colombian with Husqvarna Model 640 barrel in 30.06. I have several others but this will do for a start. I can give you the specifics on any one you'd like.

Gtimothy
March 8, 2012, 11:18 PM
It's definitely your choice....but before you pull the trigger, maybe jimmyraythomason would be kind enough to post a few pictures of his creations. It's a choice between a nice factory rifle, and what literally is a work of art. With bragging rights. ;)
I'm always up for seeing nice guns so if jimmyraythomason is up for posting pics, I'd gladly drool over them. Unfortunately, being only moderately good with my hands and not having any of the tools to do the work, I would probably wind up buggering up the whole project and not have anything I'd want to bring out in public. Some things are better left to the professionals!

jimmyraythomason
March 8, 2012, 11:30 PM
This is a Chinese 1935 "Chaing Kai Shek" receiver with a new Latin Contract 18" barrel in 7x57mm. This one is sized and balanced like a Remington model 7.

Gtimothy
March 9, 2012, 03:46 PM
This is a Chinese 1935 "Chaing Kai Shek" receiver with a new Latin Contract 18" barrel in 7x57mm. This one is sized and balanced like a Remington model 7.
Ok, I'm jealous! Out of curiosity, how much of the work do you do yourself? In other words, are you a gunsmith or do you have a really good friend who is? I'm a carpenter by trade and can do just about anything with wood. Working with metal...never had any interest. That means I can fit and finish a stock but can't remove a barrel or do headspace work which means things get expensive QUICK!

jimmyraythomason
March 9, 2012, 05:30 PM
I do ALMOST all of the work myself. I traded for the Chinese Mauser and asked the other party to have the barrels(and calber) switched before the trade. I installed the Husvarna barrel on the Colombian myself since it was fully chambered and the headspace checked out. I do all D&T for scope bases,filing off of the charger hump, hot bluing,glass bedding,etc. I am NOT a gunsmith although I had a gunshop in the late '70s and early '80s. I offered limited services,mainly minor repairs and rebluing. I generally prowl Gunbroker.com for Mauser parts and buy parts looking toward future projects.

jimmyraythomason
March 9, 2012, 05:48 PM
A Gew98 in .257 roberts(that one hasn't worked out too well as it keyholes with 117grn bullets and has been tabled for another time.

Gtimothy
March 9, 2012, 10:51 PM
I do ALMOST all of the work myself. I traded for the Chinese Mauser and asked the other party to have the barrels(and calber) switched before the trade. I installed the Husvarna barrel on the Colombian myself since it was fully chambered and the headspace checked out. I do all D&T for scope bases,filing off of the charger hump, hot bluing,glass bedding,etc. I am NOT a gunsmith although I had a gunshop in the late '70s and early '80s. I offered limited services,mainly minor repairs and rebluing. I generally prowl Gunbroker.com for Mauser parts and buy parts looking toward future projects.
All of the guns you have posted look great! I know you're proud of them...I would be for sure! I was talking to an old guy at the range today and we talked about Mausers and he said he had done a few. He told me that for the cost of a decent barrel, stock, etc...and the other work which I would have to have done, I'd be much better off just buying a modern bolt action rifle. Maybe if I get to know him better he might know someone locally who would take pity and help a newbie build a gun! In the mean time, going to the gun show (Tampa) tomorrow and have a look to see if they have my next rifle there! ;)

jimmyraythomason
March 10, 2012, 11:55 AM
He definitely told you right about the cost! It is not cheaper to built rather than buy! That isn't why I,or many others,do it. The fun is in the doing and is especially rewarding when the resulting rifle not only looks good but performs well. It is impossible to do a good job without the proper tools or knowledge. It takes more than a hacksaw and a drill motor. I suggest that you get some AGI dvds on building a Mauser sporter and watch them several times before actually starting a project or buying any tools. Be Warned! Once you start building..one is never enough!!! Good luck!

Gtimothy
March 10, 2012, 04:49 PM
He definitely told you right about the cost! It is not cheaper to built rather than buy! That isn't why I,or many others,do it. The fun is in the doing and is especially rewarding when the resulting rifle not only looks good but performs well. It is impossible to do a good job without the proper tools or knowledge. It takes more than a hacksaw and a drill motor. I suggest that you get some AGI dvds on building a Mauser sporter and watch them several times before actually starting a project or buying any tools. Be Warned! Once you start building..one is never enough!!! Good luck!
Boy, THAT sounds familiar! As my wife would say "You don't need any NEW hobbies!" I'm already looking at some of AGI's mini courses but still haven't figured out a good way to convince HER that I need to pursue it further. I'm afraid I'd have to sell off some of my other toys...Guitar, Amp, RC heli's & planes etc.!

BTW: The gun show was PACKED!!!! Not very many "deals" either! Didn't see many bolt guns but there was everything under the sun for an AR!

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